http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC
I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare. The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe 2 seconds or 50 ft, but I can't initiate pitch unless the wings are level and the glider isn't yawed (you can see the result in the landing video, I start thinking about avoiding Joe, the glider yaws almost imperceptibly and I drop a wing). Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach. I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up. I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
My other comment is that I like to make a long low final. I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground, I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient and I'm only arresting forward motion. Try jumping off a chair and running--your feet are planted to the ground. I guess that's one reason why Greblo teaches students to flare gradually and run out their landings.
I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land...
No, that certainly wouldn't fall under the purview of the world's foremost glider designer since the beginning of time. (And one wonders whom it is who writes the Wills Wing glider owners manuals which instruct the pilots on how to land them.) That's obviously the job of a new Three who's just completed one of u$hPa's Instructor Certification Programs - which have absolutely nothing to do with standardizing procedures which keep the student pilot safe - so he can work the summer at Lockout Mountain Flight Park.
So whom WOULD you recommend for teaching others how to land? Greblo? Who teaches total crap which flatly contradicts the material in your owners manuals and supresses fatal Kagel landing incident reports?
And now you're President of the United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association - the organization which establishes SOPs; the rating standards you use as recommendations for qualifications to fly your intro, recreational, comp bladewing gliders; qualifies instructors and other ratings officials. So you're still not presuming to teach others how to land?
No, wait... Tim Herr determined that u$hPa wasn't and couldn't be in the safety business. So I guess it doesn't matter how many of your customers get turned downwind and mangled or killed because they had their hands where Greblo teaches them to have them for the entire duration of a Kagel flight - 'cept then you won't be able to sell them any more gliders and u$hPa won't ever have them as members. And if they're killed u$hPa will immediately erase their records as previous members.
The reason you wouldn't presume to teach others how to land is 'cause if you did you'd be contradicting the total crap 100.0 percent of your dealers teach their victims how to land. So you've figured you'll do better mangling and killing people at the accustomed rate rather then pissing off your dealers and having them dump Wills and go with Moyes and North Wing.
...but for me...
Yeah, that's for YOU. But your gliders would be able to sense that it's not you under the wing and would likely behave in entirely different manners.
...the challenge...
If there's a "CHALLENGE" this is something no halfway intelligent individual has any fuckin' business doing. If it's a challenge then we're gonna fail five or ten percent of the time. And those failures of control can (and do) easily translate to crippling and fatal consequences. Ask Orion Price if you don't believe me.
...is having precise control of the glider before flare.
EX fuckin' ZACTLY. 'Cause once you execute the flare you have ZILCH control of the glider and are along for the ride - hoping the air won't be doing anything substantially uncooperative until after the glider completes its whipstall and drops you to a dead stop down on the runway. And how 'bout you show us the videos of your gliders passing certification for safe control during that phase.
The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe 2 seconds or 50 ft...
...assuming the air will be cooperating for the duration of that period...
...but I can't initiate pitch...
INITIATE pitch? Shouldn't a competent pilot be constantly CONTROLLING pitch until his plane is down and rolling on the runway?
...unless the wings are level...
And what better way is there to keep the wings level than to rotate to upright and place your hands on the control tubes at shoulder or ear height.
...and the glider isn't yawed...
Tell me how the glider's gonna yaw. Never mind, I'll do it. The only whay it's gonna yaw is if it encounters a substantial crosswind. And if the glider yaws into a crosswind then you let it. On the rare occasion when you're not landing in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place anyway.
...(you can see the result in the landing video...
Not anymore, you pulled it. Similar to the way you pulled all your owners manuals off line. And we should be thinking about just how much we should be able to trust anyone who pulls shit like that.
I start thinking about avoiding Joe...
I started thinking about avoiding Joe a decade ago. And if I'd known him way better I'd have started thinking about avoiding him a lot sooner.
...the glider yaws almost imperceptibly and I drop a wing).
And here I was thinking that the glider is supposed to have a pilot at the controls telling it what to do. But I guess when you stall the wing the glider isn't gliding and is therefore no longer gliding. It's gone from being a glider to being a staller. And thus the pilot is no longer a pilot 'cause there's extremely little he can do inside of however many seconds he has left.
Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off...
But fear not. Mother Nature will never be able to throw anything at us which will overwhelm the control authority we can manage. And if she even thinks about trying then we just shift our hands to the control tubes at shoulder or ear height such that our control authority instantly becomes near infinite.
...or if I have to maneuver late on approach.
And we'll always have at least 1.5 times the minimal energry needed to safely maneuver late on approach. That's one of the many advantages hang gliders have over conventional fixed wing aircraft - which the FAA mandates not to maneuver late on approach.
I always have plenty of pitch authority...
1. 'Cause you don't ever get lulled - or feel any effects dropping down into a gradient.
2. Bullshit. We're supposed to be losing control authority near the end of our landing sequence. And if you have plenty of control authority then you're not landing.
...and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up.
And here I was thinking that our nose should be coming down as the landing progresses. Guess I've been spending too much time hanging around airports.
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height...
Like you have them:
15-2106
here? Thanks zillions for the demonstration of the kind of dangerous shit one can get away with in overcast dead conditions.
...and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
'Specially without wheels or skids. What's the worst that could happen? Certainly nothing like a broken wrist or quading.
My other comment is that I like to make a long low final.
'Cause you're a SoCal guy who does 99.99 percent of his landings at Crestline - and can't begin to imagine what it would be like to come into a tight field on an eastern XC flight. Me? I think only douchebags execute long low finals.
67-11720 - 32-04415
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50595339053_a94fc18d5c_o.png
I'd be bored outta my fuckin' skull.
I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground...
If you're close to the ground near the end of a long low final then why do you NEED to flare aggressively? And don't tell me it's 'cause you're preparing yourself for emergency landing situations - 'cause if you were you wouldn't be doing long low finals.
I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient...
Nobody has to worry about mushing through a gradient. If one is mushing through a gradient one of two things will happen. He'll either:
- stall
- pull in to prevent a stall
...and I'm only arresting forward motion.
No you're not. You're also initiating upward motion. And what could be the possible harm in that?
Try jumping off a chair and running--your feet are planted to the ground.
1. Yeah right, Steve. Coming in in light or dead air and running your glider to a stop is exactly like jumping off a chair and running. Never a pretty sight. (This is total fucking lunacy.)
2. Feet planted to the ground...
15-2106
Hold that thought.
I guess that's one reason why Greblo teaches students to flare gradually and run out their landings.
1. You GUESS? You guys seem to be on such intimate terms...
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...I'm rather astonished you don't KNOW.
2. He's teaching One and Two levels. Do you think they need to be guessing about what he's trying to accomlish with all the bullshit he's teaching?
3. And here I was thinking that hang glider landing training was geared from Day One to enable the student to stop safely in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place. What happens when one attempts to flare gradually and run out his landing in an environment like that? He seems to be assuming that his students will be ending all their high flights in the Kagel and Crestline LZs.
4. How 'bout:
16-031309
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4348/37169463766_6f13e0b9fe_o.png
What the fuck is he trying to teach/accomplish with that bullshit? Are his products world renowned for their superior approach and...
32-1901
...spot landing skills?
http://vimeo.com/39102874
Pearson whacks Greblo
Yeah Steve, I'm starting to get a feel for the multiple reasons you'd want that video pulled from the historical record.
Steven Pearson - 2012/03/24 10:51
Landing sequence from the 2009 Crestline fly-in. About 30 feet away from the cone, I realized that Joe was standing his ground and tried to avoid clipping him in the head with my basetube. Thanks to Kenny Westfall.
The video's dead and so is the guy who shot it - as of 2020/10/04 21:00 PDT. Vicinity of Lake Arrowhead, single vehicle.
01-0000
- 01 - chronological order
- 00 - seconds
- 00 - frame (15 fps)
01-0000
Here we need to start asking ourselves why Greblo has parked himself almost precisely centered on the point Steve - or at least someone flying a state-of-the-art topless bladewing - will be planning to stop his glider.
02-0007
03-0304
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Going onto final at about ten percent of the altitude a responsible pilot would've completed is final turn. Setting an extremely poor example there, Steve.
07-0810
08-1004
FINALLY...
09-1209
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Right hand up on the downtube at ear height.
14-2014
Left hand... And after this point Steve becomes little more than a passenger on a nearly stalled wing. And the wing doesn't give a rat's ass about who designed it.
15-2106
And Joe hasn't budged either foot a millimeter since we first saw him back at 01-0000 - and won't until after 24-2303.
And note the glider starting to yaws almost imperceptibly. I'd have never picked up on that if Steve hadn't pointed that out in his post. I guess if that can happen to a pilot as experienced and accomplished as Steve is that helpless to prevent our own gliders from yaws almost imperceptibly.
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If only there were some way to get that wing flying again.
18-2208
And both of Joe's feet still planted. And this is the guy we want teaching and signing off our Ones, Twos, Threes?
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Don't worry, Joe. Steve still has tons of clearance between where you've planted your feet and he's gonna stop in a worst case scenario.
22-2301
Notice that Pearson doesn't actually whack Greblo - despite the title of the video.
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Don't worry, Joe. Doesn't hold a candle to what you set your students up for. And Steve wouldn't presume to teach others how to land. He's totally thrilled with the way you've been doing it since the beginning of time - starting at his own private stretch of California beach a wee bit south of LAX.
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How 'bout presuming to teach others where not to stand when observing gliders landing? Would you be good with presuming that much?
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Weird.
34-3511
Sorry
This video does not exist.
But now the stills do. Guess you and your buddy can start being a bit less sorry.
That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh??? 
