Releases

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Zack,
So I took a trip to Lookout last weekend and my release gave me trouble (must be something in the air over there...).
Yeah. Matt.
I took two tows on two different days and on both I had to pull the actuator loop three times before it released.
Zack C - 2010/12/09 04:41:24 UTC

Usually it activates on the second pull, but that time it took four pulls.
I'm seeing a good trend here! By the time time we get to Version 4.0 we may be seeing something that opens after just ONE pull - like the thirty-five dollar panic snap jobs we were using twenty years ago. Just three hundred dollars and maybe fifteen years more to go!
Naturally, the release worked fine on the ground.
Towing Aloft

Here is a step-by-step method for safe launching:

1. Preflight the glider, harness and bridle then move to the launch point.

2. Hook in and do a hang check. Don't forget this important procedure for it's embarrassing to leave your glider in your wake of dust and dirt clods as you plow a furrow down the runway and your friends howl with delight.

3. Hook into the towline. The assistant should pull on the line while you test the release. If you are a beginner you should have several trials at releasing without looking at the trigger line.
Yeah, everything always works fine on the ground with the glider stationary and an assistant pulling twenty or thirty pounds.
...and the employee there seemed concerned but not surprised...she said they modified the design since I purchased mine...
Meaning they knew they had a design flaw which could easily get you killed and didn't bother to contact you, put anything up on their website, or publish an advisory in the magazine. But I'm sure they got the word out in France. (Antoine, can you get that link to us?)
...but I think she was saying they shortened the required travel distance of the barrel...
Since they have no way of lengthening the allowable travel distance.
...and would swap my release for a new one at no charge.
Really? After you already used it for all those hundreds of tows at Columbus? I think to be fair you should've offered them at least seventy-five bucks.
I unwound it and found it then functioned as expected, but coiling it again reduced the available travel distance of the barrel. I never noticed behavior like this with other releases and don't understand it...
The inside of the housing bend is compressed/normal, the outside expands - and thus the effective length of the housing increases. The cable's length is fixed and thus it's sucked into the housing.
...but the fact that the curvature of the cable can apparently affect release performance greatly concerns me.
Tad Eareckson - 2011/01/04 12:04:39 UTC

I despise cable.
...so it looks like I'm just going to have to deal with the excess for now.
It should be a simple matter to chop things down or replace them. I can walk you through it. Or I'm sure a bicycle shop could handle it no problem.
Last I spoke with him Matt was working on fixing it.
What a bunch o' crap.
Time to contact Joe Street...
And/or... If I could just get you to drill a hole in the top of your downtube it wouldn't be all that hard or expensive to install something in which you could have total confidence.
By the way, no one at Lookout said anything about my (your) equipment, although I think only the launch assistants got a good look at it.
There's no more interest in good equipment at that dump than there is at Ridgely, Manquin, Quest, or anywhere else. All good equipment is to them is a threat to their sales of shitrigged junk.
I had hoped to ask Steve Pearson his thoughts on building releases into gliders (he was there for Demo Days), but I didn't get a chance to talk to him.
PLEASE don't let him slip through your fingers again. He may be our best hope.

Bob,
It's a real eye opener.
Not really. Matt tells you it's gonna fail in the owner's manual.

But that's OK 'cause you're ALWAYS gonna have the time and ability to get to your "backup" release before you slam in - just like the emergency brake on your car.

But hell, you can't get in too much trouble anyway because of "the weak link which will break under the right load."

If he spent a tenth of the time trying to things right that he does lying and covering his evil ass...
deltaman
Posts: 177
Joined: 2011/03/29 11:07:42 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by deltaman »

LMFP Release
I sent 3 times this email to fly@hanglide.com without any answer !!! :
Hello

I recently purchased one of your Aerotow Primary Releases for use in aerotowing tandem gliders. We conduct a tandem aerotowing operation just south of Paris, France.

We have been having considerable trouble releasing when the line is under high tension. It takes considerable effort to pull the Rope-Loop release, often requiring two or three violent tugs on the loop. Obviously, this is a considerable safety concern.

One possible reason for the difficulty is the fact that there is some play in the barrel, which does not fit 100% snugly against the main block. When there is tension on the line, the release catch tilts the barrel very slightly, which may have the effect of increasing friction and causing the barrel to catch (there is very slight burring on the main release block as a result of this tendancy).

I would appreciate any feedback you may have on this problem. If this is not an isolated case, and is in fact a design flaw that you have rectified in subsequent models, I would like to know the procedure for acquiring the updated model. If it is simply a problem with this particular item then I would like to have it replaced.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards
I tested the SteevRelease at 100kg on the release, it seems working on a safe activation effort.
but I ordered and wait now for a Joe Street's..

Barrel Release
look at this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/psucvollibre/sets/72157627187400700/

Image

Image

Image

For sure you have to work on it but it remains possible.. it yields to less than 60kg
I can't stitch the 2 strands of the leechline together on the same level of the pin, otherwise all becomes to thick..
Do you know other trick ?

Bridlelink
I tested a n°9: 9 stitches in one side, 3 on the other one and found by testing it straight (not through a ring):
89kg and 92kg so 178kg and 184kg on the line, much higher than the data you wrote on the mousetraps.
It looks more like a n°12 (9+3). The 3 stitches seems to help..
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I sent 3 times this email to fly@hanglide.com without any answer !!!
Could've been worse. You could have driven down there on his invitation and spent a couple of weeks hanging around and load testing his weak links and releases waiting for the sonuvabitch to find time to talk to you or take a half serious look at the equipment you developed.
We have been having considerable trouble releasing when the line is under high tension. It takes considerable effort to pull the Rope-Loop release, often requiring two or three violent tugs on the loop. Obviously, this is a considerable safety concern.
OBVIOUSLY, you didn't bother to read the owner's manual that came with it (that you can't access until after you've paid for and received it).
GT Manufacturing Inc. (GT) and Lookout Mountain Flight Park Inc. (LMFP) make no claim of serviceability of this tow equipment. There is no product liability insurance covering this gear and we do not warrant this gear as suitable for towing anything. We make no claim of serviceability in any way and recommend that you do not use this aerotow gear if you are not absolutely sure how to use it and or if you are unwilling to assume the risk. Towing and flying hang gliders is inherently dangerous.

If properly used, there is a minimum of three ways to release from the towline. Do not depend on any of these ways by themselves and fly with a back up. The first release is the primary release which under certain situations may fail, second, is the secondary release that works most of the time, if all is set up correctly, and third, the weak link which will break under the right load. You should also fly with a hook knife that will allow you to cut the line if need be.

GT and LMFP Inc. assume no liability for the function and serviceability of this equipment. If you are uncomfortable with the risk of using this tow gear you will need to get gear that you are comfortable with or do not tow. There is an inherent risk in towing hang gliders that you must assume if you want to use this gear and you want to tow. Learn and understand the risk and the use of this gear. Your safety depends on it.

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.
It's not really suitable for towing ANYTHING but if you wanna tow at one G your flying weight can't exceed 226 pounds. And you wanna use it for TANDEM?!?!?!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I tested the SteevRelease at 100kg on the release, it seems working on a safe activation effort.
At least it's working. Looks like I may have to give him more credit than Matt.
...but I ordered and wait now for a Joe Street's...
Yeah, I know. We've been in touch.
For sure you have to work on it but it remains possible.. it yields to less than 60kg
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

- The splicing pulls apart at 60 kg? That's fixable.

- The caught pin disengages at 60 kg?

(I'm guessing the latter.)
I can't stitch the 2 strands of the leechline together on the same level of the pin, otherwise all becomes to thick..
When you stitch line the longitudinal vector of the thread tension shortens and thickens the material. (Makes it a real pain in the ass when you're trying to end up with a component of a precise length.)

To keep the pin from snagging...

All you need to do is run a few stitches of floss through the two runs of your line material within a couple of millimeters of length about two thirds of the pin length back from the fold. They don't have to be tight and you won't longitudinally thicken the material significantly enough to be a problem.
I tested a No. 9: 9 stitches in one side, 3 on the other one and found by testing it straight (not through a ring):
89kg and 92kg so 178kg and 184kg on the line, much higher than the data you wrote on the mousetraps.
That's a little disappointingly high - the big number is 25 percent over target.

But the table for the Bridle Link strengths allows for 33 percent over. (Probably should have stated that a little more clearly).

You're going to get SOMETHING in the way of an increase with those additional three stitches. I'm not entirely happy with the bottom ratings - Seven, Eight, and Nine - which require them.

When you're using a Bridle Link as a secondary weak link it's a lot better to be too high than too low.

I shoot for 1.5 because even even if you're a third over target you still don't quite crack 2.0 - and 2.0 is acceptable and, in the US, legal for hang gliders and sailplanes.
It looks more like a No. 12 (9+3).
NO! A Twelve is six plus six. Nothing over a Nine is an anything plus three.

- And you understand that you need a thimble at the bottom end of a two point bridle and the heat shrink MUST come off (unless you're towing one point)?

- Hope you'll get around to using my color coding standard so there's no mistaking what you're using.

Might be worth risking a little guerrilla action on The Davis Show. I'd LOVE to see this thread:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14903
New Lookout Release--preliminary test

taken out of mothballs and reinvigorated with your letter to Matt and your evaluation of his customer service. There are three total assholes there - in addition to Davis - in serious need of major humiliation.

Zack,

Maybe we should keep you in reserve for the time being. One of the team just did a suicide bombing Sunday and I'm running low on infiltrators.
deltaman
Posts: 177
Joined: 2011/03/29 11:07:42 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by deltaman »

LMFP RELEASE
GT Manufacturing Inc. (GT) and Lookout Mountain Flight Park Inc. (LMFP) make no claim of serviceability of this tow equipment. There is no product liability insurance covering this gear and we do not warrant this gear as suitable for towing anything. We make no claim of serviceability in any way and recommend that you do not use this aerotow gear if you are not absolutely sure how to use it and or if you are unwilling to assume the risk. Towing and flying hang gliders is inherently dangerous.

If properly used, there is a minimum of three ways to release from the towline. Do not depend on any of these ways by themselves and fly with a back up. The first release is the primary release which under certain situations may fail, second, is the secondary release that works most of the time, if all is set up correctly, and third, the weak link which will break under the right load. You should also fly with a hook knife that will allow you to cut the line if need be.

GT and LMFP Inc. assume no liability for the function and serviceability of this equipment. If you are uncomfortable with the risk of using this tow gear you will need to get gear that you are comfortable with or do not tow. There is an inherent risk in towing hang gliders that you must assume if you want to use this gear and you want to tow. Learn and understand the risk and the use of this gear. Your safety depends on it.

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.
We bought 2 releases like this one with a friend who recieve them and he never sent me this !! Incredible !! He is the man, (surface) towing the young Greg with this release and no wl.. Glurps !
I understood that Zack had the luck to swap it for the version 2.0 waiting for the v3.0 ...

In France, this type of warning is worthless in terms of justice.
From here we have the image of a U.S. court where the issue of money is fundamental and can ruin your life.
The way to do of LMFP is totally unreasonable.

I posted on ozreport & hanggliding.org a safety advert
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99762
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=244941

BARREL RELEASE
All you need to do is run a few stitches of floss through
ok I will try, but..
I found this too:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/psucvollibre/5935859745/
Image

and in this configuration that I made for experimental without releasing, it don't disengage anymore..
and I don't see how stitches could avoid it..

BRIDLELINK
It looks more like a No. 12 (9+3).
NO! A Twelve is six plus six. Nothing over a Nine is an anything plus three.
Yeah, I know. What I would to say:
I tested a n°10 (5+5) and found 150 142 144 148 150 (stitch worth 15kg average). This values are less that my n°9 (9+3). A n°12 (6+6) with my 15kg stitch will be #180kg as my N°9 (9+3(=12))..
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

We bought 2 releases like this one with a friend who recieve them and he never sent me this !! Incredible !!
You do realize that the word "friend" in English means the same as "ami" in French? Are you sure that's the right term?
I had forgotten when I last wrote but there's a pdf scan of the owner's manual up at:
http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/index.html
and the text is posted and dissected at:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post41.html#p41
I understood that Zack had the luck to swap it for the version 2.0 waiting for the v3.0 ...
I'm referring to the original spinnaker shackle junk that doesn't work as Lookout Version 1.0, the one Zack had and you have that doesn't work as 2.0, and the one that Zack has now that's supposed to work as 2.1. I imagine 3.0 will be identical to 1.0 except it will have red cable housing and cost an extra fifty bucks.
In France, this type of warning is worthless in terms of justice.
Does that mean that if Matt sells this piece of junk and it kills the pilot Matt gets his head chopped off? Do you know anything about relevant extradition treaties? (Happy Bastille Day, by the way.)
The way to do of LMFP is totally unreasonable.
Totally VILE.
I posted on ozreport & hanggliding.org a safety advert...
You have NO IDEA how incredibly HAPPY you made me with those posts - especially on The Davis Show.

In case anybody needs a field guide to total assholes...

David Luvs Paragliding:
Marc Fink

Blindrodie:
Jim Gaar

Hefalump:
Sweeeet!!!! Looks good to me.

I like the bent gate bar, as Marc suggested that should make release force many times less than tow force, if not nearly independant of tow line force.
Nicely done Lookout! Elegant solution!
As in most cases, the simplest designs work best.
JD Guillemette

Davis:
Davis
I found this too...
Oh gawd...

- Correct me if I'm wrong, but that didn't just HAPPEN. You had to DELIBERATELY *FLIP* the pin PERPENDICULAR to its plane rather than *ROTATE* it WITHIN its plane.

- NOBODY is gonna be STUPID enough to do this in the process of hooking up to a tug.

- Anybody who IS stupid enough to do this isn't doing the gene pool any big favors.

- Unfortunately, he's extremely unlikely to die unless he locks it up this way about a thousand times in a row without being able to figure out the problem before he gets into a low critical situation. (This is why Rooney's still around.)

- Ridgely asked me to modify my release to make it idiot proof with respect to this issue. I jumped through a couple of hoops and made it extremely idiot resistant.

- But then I asked myself why I was doing something to increase the survival odds of total fucking morons in a sport that's supersaturated with them to begin with and terminated the modifications.

- For a while I had a photo JUST LIKE YOURS on my Flickr site. But I took it down because it:

-- created the impression that this was an actual problem which could happen in the field; and

-- would teach people how to do something wrong and they're already overloaded with that kinda crap from the assholes who run the flight parks.
...and I don't see how stitches could avoid it...
They can't. Only IQ points. They need to be up into the lower double digits.
...stitch worth 15kg average...
Good enough. I get about sixteen and a third - and that's a tolerance we can all live with.
This values are less that my No. 9 (9+3).
Good, that's what I'd predict. I'd think, for example, that one run of ten would hold a little better than two of five - but my own testing didn't indicate enough difference to worry about.
Zack C
Site Admin
Posts: 292
Joined: 2010/11/23 01:31:08 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Zack C »

Tad Eareckson wrote:It should be a simple matter to chop things down or replace them. I can walk you through it. Or I'm sure a bicycle shop could handle it no problem.
It's not a big deal. I found that around here most people using cable releases have long cables as well. The release worked fine without modification, although the excess doesn't help with drag...
Tad Eareckson wrote:If I could just get you to drill a hole in the top of your downtube it wouldn't be all that hard or expensive to install something in which you could have total confidence.
I knew you'd say that, but that's a last resort for me.

Zack
deltaman
Posts: 177
Joined: 2011/03/29 11:07:42 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by deltaman »

Hi,

BARREL RELEASE

It's your turn Tad..
2. NOBODY is gonna be STUPID enough to do this in the process of hooking up to a tug.
I'm not agree with that. I find you're more obsessive to criticize other releases.
The trick is not so hard to do (with my setup anyway). Look:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/psucvollibre/5958248335/in/set-72157627187400700
I'm not confortable to propose this release to everybody with this possible event. A distracted pilot should not be punished in this way
7. For a while I had a photo JUST LIKE YOURS on my Flickr site. But I took it down
it seems to me still essential
5. Ridgely asked me to modify my release to make it idiot proof with respect to this issue. I jumped through a couple of hoops and made it extremely idiot resistant.
did you find a way to prevent this excepting IQ points and being vigilant ?

With dyneema as leechline the slide of the barrel was too easy, with no load I could have unwanted release, so I sliced a 2cm piece of 2mm string inside one strand of the braided dyneema below the pin.

2 POINT AT

I'd like to know if hanging the upper part of the bridle on the keel or on the carabiner make a difference on overcontrolling "moderation" ?

european history:
xxx (Belgium)

I tumbled a few years ago with a passenger because I thought I was smart enough to develop a better V-bridle system for my duo. I wasn't thinking anymore what will happened when there was a malfunction. The first 9 years everything was ok, the system did his job and nothing special happened. But after 9 years and 1500 tows the V-bridle wickled around the tow rope and my weaklink was also around the tow rope. (of course it has to be on the glider) Because the system hasn't a back up, the tug started to dive and we tumled. We landed all safe on a parachute
Last edited by deltaman on 2011/07/21 14:09:52 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Zack C
Site Admin
Posts: 292
Joined: 2010/11/23 01:31:08 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Zack C »

deltaman wrote:The trick is not so hard to do (with my setup anyway).
I tried it on the releases Tad provided me and I can't do it. The plastic tubing limiting the travel of the barrel just barely allows the barrel to clear the pin when the pin is rotated properly. When rotated perpendicular to its plane, the barrel can't travel far enough to allow the pin to be inserted into it.

It doesn't look like you have a limiter on yours...try putting something on it to limit the barrel travel as much as possible and see if you can still do it.

Zack
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Antoine,
I'm not agree with that. I find you're more obsessive to criticize other releases.
I REALLY DO appreciate your efforts to look for every possible way to improve things and make them bulletproof. That's EXACTLY what brought you to my attention and prompted me to rescue you from the Davis and Jack cults. And I welcome with open arms any honest and intelligent criticisms of ANY equipment - including/especially mine. That's what I do.
The trick is not so hard to do (with my setup anyway). Look...
Sorry, so far I have been unable to get that clip to play.
I'm not confortable...
coMfortable
...to propose this release to everybody with this possible event.
And I'm also a HUGE fan of making everything idiot proof - IF it can be done so without adding a lot of weight, drag, expense, undue complexity, whatever.
A distracted pilot should not be punished in this way
A distracted pilot isn't much more likely to make this mistake than he is to insert a batten in the sail backwards.

A total idiot might do it but a total idiot probably shouldn't be flying hang gliders 'cause there are a few thousand better and easier ways he's going to have to kill himself.

There is no record of anyone accidentally doing this.

There IS a record - from Ridgely - of a student pilot hooking his harness carabiner into his Wichard spinnaker shackle. But I don't see anyone making any effort to idiotproof that chink in the armor.

There's no reason not to have releases at BOTH shoulders. And then you're going to have to screw up TWO releases for one point or secondary.

With respect to two point operation... With a proper primary release, primary bridle, and secondary weak link system you should never have to go to a secondary release.

A PILOT is SUPPOSED to PREFLIGHT his equipment once in a while.

About 99.95 percent of the time a failure like this is going to be an issue only at a safe altitude - and nobody who makes this mistake more than once deserves to live anyway.

There should be people who know what they're doing on the ground looking things over once in a while.

Even if someone goes up with the primary and two secondaries locked the chances of him getting hurt on that single flight are microscopic.

What REALLY scares me about the barrel release is that it can be pulled open by contact with the basetube. I've toyed with the idea of a safety mechanism but the data doesn't indicate that this is a problem worth worrying about.
it seems to me still essential
In 1994 I attended an instructor certification clinic with Mike Robertson. He emphasized that we should NEVER tell students what NOT to do because if you did you could bet the farm that they'd do it. From some unpleasant experiences I had had:

with students on the dunes; and

a student of someone else's with whom I was working on a training hill who was seriously injured right after I had spent five minutes telling him how not to fly into a gully off to the side of the landing area

a lightbulb came on and I knew this to be absolutely true.

It was a really bad idea for me to put up a photo of a nonexistent problem and indicate that it really exists and teach people how to make it happen.

Also, when you're trying to teach kids learning to drive to buckle seat belts you don't show them the photo of the kid who wasn't wearing one and was thrown safely clear of the car before it went over the cliff and burst into flames alongside of the photo of the one who was buckled in and smashed and burned to a crisp.
did you find a way to prevent this...
When you flip the pin back (wrong) the tip of the pin ends up farther aft than it does when you rotate it back (right).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306240203/
Image

If you install a Stop - the length of clear vinyl tubing - aft of the barrel, you can set it to make it extremely difficult, but not, for the truly dedicated idiot, impossible to flip the pin through the Bridle Link eye and close the barrel over it.

However, the Dacron leechline Barrel Release Base stretches and "creeps" (retains a memory of the stretch before relaxing back down to its ambient length) so you really can't get a good, accurate, consistent adjustment for the Stop position.

And if you get the Stop a wee bit too fore it can prevent the barrel from clearing the pin tip in a slack line situation.

And after jumping through all the miserable hoops I had to I finally asked myself why I was making the release more complicated, tedious to construct, and potentially dangerous to theoretically help Adam Elchin keep more of his fellow morons from killing themselves.

Make the goddam release safer for the intelligent people and more dangerous for the idiots - win/win. Not the other way around.

And what's ACTUALLY the ONLY thing that's crashing gliders on launch at Ridgely is the 130 pound Greenspot all those stupid motherfuckers are forcing everyone to use.

So how 'bout we start addressing REAL problems - like the weak links; Wallaby, Lookout, and bent pin releases; and mentally defective tug drivers - before we start jumping through hoops with the imaginary stuff? (I'm talking to them - not you.)
I'd like to know if hanging the upper part of the bridle on the keel or on the carabiner make a difference on overcontrolling "moderation" ?
In one point (pilot only) towing...

- All of the tow force is being routed through the pilot and he thus effectively weighs more and will have more control authority than he may be used to.

- And he will be pulled forward of proper position with respect to the control frame so when he stuffs the bar the bar won't really be stuffed.

In two point (pilot and glider) towing with the upper anchor point positioned on the keel so that the glider tows at trim...

- Only half the tow force is routed through the pilot so he has less control authority but it's closer to what he's used to in free flight.

- And he's positioned fairly normally with respect to the control frame so he's got something close to the full speed range for which the glider was certified.

Think of the one point / two point thing as a continuum.

Start off with the properly trimmed two point glider with the anchor point on the keel (call it) a foot forward of the hang of the hang point.

As you move the (upper) anchor point aft on the keel, to the hang point, and down the suspension to the carabiner the towing starts taking on more of the characteristics of one point.

Continue down from the carabiner and to the pilot and the towing grades into ACTUAL one point.

(And the higher the performance of the glider the lesser are the downsides of towing on point.)
european history
I wasn't thinking anymore...
WHY? Do people start out this stupid or is there something about hang gliding that almost always does massive and - in most cases - irreversible brain damage the moment they first clip in?
...and my weaklink was also around the tow rope.
Hang Gliding - 1997/02
Tad Eareckson

To further address the danger of a primary release failure (bridle wrap), a secondary weak link, of strength somewhere between significantly stronger than and double that of the primary, should be installed at the other end of the primary bridle.
(of course it has to be on the glider)
No. It doesn't. It can be a Tost weak link on the end of the towline.

The purpose of the weak link is not to blow the tow whenever things become inconvenient - it's to keep the plane from getting broken apart in the air.
Because the system hasn't a back up...
Why not?
Does that mean STILL?

Oops...
Towing Aloft - 1998/01

One form of two-point bridle arrangement also known as a V-bridle is shown in figure 7-12. Here a short shoulder line attaches to the pilot's harness shoulder straps. This line should be 2 to 4 feet long and may be fastened by using quick links or tying the lines to the shoulder straps as shown in the figure. Some harnesses have towing loops sewn in the appropriate place for an attachment and such loops should be ordered when purchasing a new harness if you expect to aerotow. We highly recommend employing a secondary release at this point as shown in the figure.
It's just HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. It's not like this should be mandatory or anything. I mean you did NINE YEARS and FIFTEEN HUNDRED TOWS before you had to hit the silk. Carry on.
...the tug started to dive and we tumled.
What was preventing the tug from releasing?
Just out of curiosity... Was there a weak link on the front end?
We landed all safe on a parachute
What about the tug? I'm assuming separation was achieved during the tumble? How?

Any lessons learned?

Thanks much for that little gem - I'll treasure it all my remaining days.

Zack,
I tried it on the releases Tad provided me and I can't do it.
You got in before me.

Yeah, I like to have things idiot proof and the Stops can/do work fairly well. But the official purpose of the Stop is to keep the aft material from getting chewed up by a hard pull and I don't advertise it otherwise. Just consider the idiotproofing as a serendipitous byproduct.
deltaman
Posts: 177
Joined: 2011/03/29 11:07:42 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by deltaman »

BARREL
Sorry, so far I have been unable to get that clip to play.
It's .MOV
My setup use a braided dyneema I didn't stitch together in opposite to your stitched dacron leechline. This shall make a difference on the easiest manner to do the trick..

2 POINT
May we say that 50% is even distributed on pilot and glider only when the upper anchor point is positioned so that the glider tows at trim... and aft this point the distribution change ?
I would like to help pilot to discover AT with their own glider without to test each anchor point.
As I didn't test it for me, what kind of help can we expect by anchoring on the carabiner except the fact that "student" can have the release lanyard in their hand?

Thanks
Post Reply