Kite Strings

Tugs themselves are not 100% reliable. During the warm-up day of the same 2011 SCFR, a tug lost power at 25mph or so. The HG pilot did not hold on to the cart and lifted off with just enough airspeed to clear the cart and then slid down the asphalt, scuffing up his carbon fiber control bar as well as his racing harness. In most aviation endeavors I believe there is a go/no-go decision point and in many aspects there are phases where your only option is to try and mitigate an unavoidable crash. I fly front passenger in a friend's Grob 103A at Elsinore and there is a segment of the aero tow pattern in which you will end up in the lake if the tug plane loses power or drops the lines, etc. So there is a point of no return when getting towed up in the sailplane where aborting the launch is no longer an option followed by a phase in which there is no safe place to land until the tow plane pulls you high enough to return to the runway.

The safe alternative is don't fly at all. Risks are not unavoidable but they are manageable. The moment we are conceived we are doomed to die. The trick is to die from old age after a full life. Anyhow, I was using a loop of Cortland Greenspot 130# for the weak link and although it was in a slight tailwind there was no jerking that I could feel. I can see the benefit of going to a heavier weak link after this unexpected failure.

Tugs themselves are not 100% reliable.

They're a lot more reliable than:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

And the latter is by design/intent.

During the warm-up day of the same 2011 SCFR, a tug lost power at 25mph or so.

So'd this one:



'cause it wasn't warmed up. Any idea why the SCFR one died?

If a tug loses power on takeoff it's ultimately a human problem. Somebody's responsible - pilot, maintenance guy, engine manufacturer.

The HG pilot did not hold on to the cart and lifted off with just enough airspeed to clear the cart...

The errors mount.

...and then slid down the asphalt, scuffing up his carbon fiber control bar as well as his racing harness.

Yeah, well when we design and fly equipment under the assumption that we're always gonna be able to nail foot landings every single time no matter what...

In most aviation endeavors I believe there is a go/no-go decision point and in many aspects there are phases where your only option is to try and mitigate an unavoidable crash. I fly front passenger in a friend's Grob 103A at Elsinore and there is a segment of the aero tow pattern in which you will end up in the lake if the tug plane loses power or drops the lines, etc.

A mere...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:15:12 UTC

Oh, in case it's not obvious (which it doesn't seem to be), once someone starts telling me what the "sole" purpose of a weaklink is, I tune them out as they have no clue what they're talking about.

Weaklinks are there to improve the safety of the towing operation, as I've stated before.

Any time someone starts in on this "sole purpose" bullshit, it's cuz they're arguing for stronger weaklinks cuz they're breaking them and are irritated by the inconvenience. I've heard it a million times and it's a load of shit. After they've formed their opinion, then they go in search of arguments that support their opinion.

...inconvenience.

So there is a point of no return when getting towed up in the sailplane where aborting the launch is no longer an option...

Sure is a good thing we don't have an analogous situation...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


...in hang gliding.

The safe alternative is don't fly at all.

I think we can do better than that. I think we can make the flight safer than driving to the flying site.

Risks are not unavoidable but they are manageable.

We can totally one hundred percent eliminate the possibility of...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

You and I have flown sailplanes for almost as long as we have flown hang gliders. We own two sailplanes and have two airplanes that we use for towing full-size sailplanes. In all the time that we have flown and towed sailplanes, we have not experienced or even seen a sailplane weak link break.

...anything breaking between a tug and a glider while a tow's under anything resembling control - but not when the tugs are designed and controlled by the total fucking morons they are now.

The moment we are conceived we are doomed to die.

The moment Donnell Hewett conceived of his Skyting "theory" scores of people were doomed to die very prematurely.

The trick is to die from old age after a full life.

That definitely won't be an option for Yours Truly.

Anyhow, I was using a loop of Cortland Greenspot 130# for the weak link...

Why? 'Cause:
- that's what everybody uses?
- it has a huge track record?
- Davis and the other total fucking morons running that event forced everybody too?

All of the above?

What was the glider? A T2 144? That Industry Standard piece of shit doesn't even get you up into the legal range. It's about half of the minimum you wanna be flying and three eighths of max legal.

...and although it was in a slight tailwind there was no jerking that I could feel.

Doesn't matter. We can't afford to be flying fishing line that can't hold up to a bit of jerking. We need stuff that holds to the point that we're feeling the kind of tension that can only be experienced well into a lockout, well beyond the point of no return.

I can see the benefit of going to a heavier weak link after this unexpected failure.

You couldn't have seen the benefit of going to a heavier weak link after seeing?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_4jKLqrus


Why was that an "unexpected" failure? Back when I was still stupid enough to think that the assholes running this show had some level of competence I was always pleasantly surprised when one of those pieces of crap...

33-030202


...DIDN'T fail.

How much heavier? What's your purpose in using a weak link?

We can't be making our critical flying decisions based upon our personal experiences. We need to understand the theory and do the math and, if that's beyond our grasp, look at worst case scenarios - hypothetical as well as actual.

Hewett's lunatic "Infallible Weak Link" theory and Quallaby's multiple times more moronic and evil "standard aerotow weak" extension of it are the biggest scams in the history of aviation. We need to start using as weak links as weak links and stop rating them to break "before the glider gets out of control" / while the glider is under control.

P.S. Steve tells me your posts are still being delayed pending approval. Sorry 'bout that - it's not supposed to be happening and I'll keep working to fix the problem if it persists.

Jump to next post:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post7052.html#p7052

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1638
Basement Bob

Bill Cummings - 2014/11/20 21:55:01 UTC

Below I posted in its entirety the full post that I made 9 months ago.
Some may not know that you can click on the last line of Youtube comment to see more lines of text.

"Nobody,"(his post.) seems to think that a stronger weaklink will make up for this pilots unpolished approach and landing technique.

No, he thinks that the decision to terminate a tow should be made by the PILOT and not a piece of magic fishing line.

To take "Nobody's" logic another step would be to say that the tug pilot should pay for the guy's broken down tube.

Goddam right he should, Bill.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC

Ok, keyboard in hand.
I've got a bit of time, but I'm not going to write a dissertation... so either choose to try to understand what I'm saying, or (as is most often the case) don't.
I don't care.

Here's a little bit of bitter reality that ya'll get to understand straight off. I won't be sugar coating it, sorry.
You see, I'm on the other end of that rope.
I want neither a dead pilot on my hands or one trying to kill me.
And yes. It is my call. PERIOD.
On tow, I am the PIC.

Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every HG pilot on the planet and I get that.
Absolutely no HG pilot likes hearing it. Not me, not no one. BUT... sorry, that's the way it is.
Accept it and move on.
Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense.

He's the Pilot In Command, he determines what his passenger will and won't have available to him back in the passenger's compartment, and...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/17 10:37:47 UTC

I'm not sure who you're arguing with Zack, but it's sure not me... cuz man... you've got some pretty big hangups mate.

Ra ra ra... burn the greenspot!!!!
Get real man.
You think that's all we use?
Hell, just in this thread, you seem to have missed the 200lb orange links.
Ah, but your strawman argument lives and breaths by your black and white hyperbole.
When you come back to reality, let me know.
Till then, I'm sick of it.

You're hear to argue. Plain and simple. I've got better stuff to do.
Go blow smoke somewhere else. I couldn't give a rats ass... I won't be towing you so what do I care?

...whether or not a person has the qualifications and attitude to be fit for the designation as passenger.

And I've gotta assume that you're totally on board with that despicable little motherfucker 'cause I didn't hear you tell him to go fuck himself.

If he hadn't towed him up his down tube would never have been broken.

If he hadn't violated FAA aerotowing regulations and tried to pull him up on a half G scrap of fishing line his downtube wouldn't have been broken for at least another ten minutes and likely wouldn't have been broken AT ALL. If you read the fucking FAA Glider Flying Handbook you'll find that a landing following a "line break" is an EMERGENCY LANDING. And emergency landings are inherently more dangerous than normal PLANNED and SET UP landings.

The bad landing should not be blamed on the tug pilot or the weaklink.

The bad landing should be blamed on the tug "pilot"'s instructor buddies at Quest. The tug "pilot" is totally responsible for the weak link break 'cause he was totally aware of the crap that his customers are using for weak links and he's knowingly violating FAA aerotow regulations by pulling it.

The weaklink broke at 7.5 seconds. The bad landing happened at 28 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNCrD6Cnc48
hang glider crash

Bill Cummings - 9 months ago

Search Youtube for the video below for another trick to save your bacon when landing on either grass, class 5 gravel, or pea gravel.

He doesn't need his bacon saved. He's already had a Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney certified Bacon Saver do that at 7.5 seconds. The rest is just inconvenience.

There are landing areas like those listed where a flare isn't needed at all.

If it's a landing area a flare isn't needed at all. Flares are only needed by idiots who try to land in areas that aren't landing areas.

NO FLARE LANDING, HANG GLIDING

Your right hand hit the flying wire from the tail to the right down tube.

Yeah, Bill, when you start really watching videos of people landing, especially frame by frame...

15-3610


26-3910

...you'll find that they damn near always do.

Just like your parachute handle look then grab the down tube earlier than you did.

Oh good, Just what we need to be doing late in the process of the most dangerous phase of our flight. We should be looking at our hands when shifting them to the downtubes at shoulder or ear height where we can't control the glider and are begging for a broken arm or dislocated shoulder if the glider stops before we do.

Next your left hand missed the left down tube twice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNCrD6Cnc48
hang glider crash
bisfal bisto - 2014/01/24
dead
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(Thought I put these up before but can't find them. If anybody's seen them before...)

Look and grab earlier than you did. Your left hand was at or slightly above your flight deck on the left down tube. No way are you high enough on the down tubes for a flare. Play it back again and see that your elbows are almost locked straight already. With your hands that wide, that low, on the down tubes you will only get the bar forward maybe two more inches.

You have to try for at least midway up the down tubes for a flare. Does you harness fight you getting vertical? If so make some changes.

Put the fuckin' glider down...

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...on the fuckin' wheels - the way God intended aircraft to be parked.

Bigger wheels helps.

Not necessarily if they don't contact the ground before you've put your glider into crash mode.

Pull on more speed for final.

Where should one have his hands to most effectively pull on more speed?

Level out with knees slightly bent with toes almost dragging.

Bleed off the speed by holding you're your same height above the grass by letting the control frame pull your hands forward.

When the control frame stops pulling your hands forward that is trim speed.

Once you have trim speed give it one more second then flare by pushing forward and up.

Always practice doing that so you'll always be ready to safely land in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place.

Notice too that the tug was back and forth between your down tubes. That is mild PIO. (Really Designed Induced Oscillation.) If you didn't have a vertical stabilizer on the tail already putting one on will help with the mild PIO.

Ya think he might have been able to get that under control a bit better if his Quest Link hadn't increased the safety of the towing operation after seven and a half seconds?

Don't increase the strength of your weak-link. (Don't--Don't!)

For the Love of God - NO! That might get you all the way up into the FAA legal range! You can't allow yourself to cave into tyranny like that. Don't fall into the trap of using the 200 like all these collaborators and traitors are doing now simply because it makes them happy! And you certainly don't wanna be a...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/13 19:09:33 UTC

It was already worked out by the time I arrived.
The reason it sticks?
Trail and error.

Every now and then someone comes along with the "new" idea of a stronger weaklink. Eventually, they scare themselves with it and wind up back with one that has a very proven track record. I mean really... no exaggeration... hundreds of thousands of tows.

Say what you will, but if you want to argue with *that* much history, well, you better have one hell of an argument... which you don't.

It amuses me how many people want to be test pilots.
It amuses me even more that people...
A) Don't realize that "test pilot" is exactly what they're signing up for and B) actually testing something is a far more involved process than "I think I just try out my theory and see what happens".

Allow me to repeat... hundreds of thousands of tows.

...TEST PILOT. Not when we already have a proven system that works.

Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post7051.html#p7051

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1638
Basement Bob

Steve Davy - 2014/11/21 05:12:15 UTC

What was the strength of bisfal bisto's weak link in that video, Bill?

What's it matter?

http://www.avianonline.co.uk/aerotow-release-p-1798.html
Avianonline Limited - Barrel type Hang Gliding Aerotow Release.

Aerotow release
Barrel tow release
Weak links.

Beginners might be tempted to use a heavy weak link after multiple weak link failures. This is extremely dangerous and it is highly recommended that you have your towing videoed and then correct the pilot error and do NOT change the weak link for a stronger one.)

The important thing is that you never use anything stronger than whatever it is you're using. And Bill's already made that perfectly clear.

Bill Cummings - 2014/11/21 05:40:04 UTC

Do you know?

God fuckin' damn right we know...

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Quest Air Aerotow FAQ

Weak Link

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.

IMPORTANT - It should never be assumed that the weak link will break in a lockout.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Oh how many times I have to hear this stuff.
I've had these exact same arguments for years and years and years.
Nothing about them changes except the new faces spouting them.

It's the same as arguing with the rookie suffering from intermediate syndrome.
They've already made up their mind and only hear that which supports their opinion.

Only later, when we're visiting them in the hospital can they begin to hear what we've told them all along.

Nobody's talking about 130lb weaklinks? (oh please)
Many reasons.
Couple of 'em for ya... they're manufactured, cheap and identifiable.

See, you don't get to hook up to my plane with whatever you please. Not only am I on the other end of that rope... and you have zero say in my safety margins... I have no desire what so ever to have a pilot smashing himself into the earth on my watch. So yeah, if you show up with some non-standard gear, I won't be towing you. Love it or leave it. I don't care.

So please, find me something... that you didn't make... that I can go out and buy from a store... that's rated and quality controlled... that fits your desire for a "non one size fits all" model, and *maybe* we can talk.
But you see... I'm the guy you've got to convince.
(or whoever your tug pilot may be... but we all tend to have a similar opinion about this)

You've not heard about strong-link incidents.
Uh, yeah... cuz we don't let you use them.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8696380718_787dbc0005_o.png


...Bill.

Was it the weak link?

That necessitated the unplanned/emergency landing? I dunno... What do you think?

Or the unpolished landing technique?

It was the unpolished landing technique. Same as...

25-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg

The pilot was out of position putting the tug pilot at risk.

GOOD.

It was time to release to not endanger the tug pilot.

1. Fuck the tug pilot. These assholes have hijacked the sport from the people who fly hang gliders and gone out of their way to keep us on junk equipment behind their junk Dragonflies.

2. It's not the job of either the glider pilot or any weak link in the system to protect the tug pilot. The glider pilot's job is to protect the glider, the tug pilot's job is to provide the glider a safe tow and protect the tug - in that order, and it's the jobs of the weak links to protect the planes closest to them from overload - and NOTHING MORE.

If the everybody does his fuckin' job and the glider's equipped with a release comparable to what the tug has instead of Industry Standard bent pin crap within easy reach and thrust as reliable as the tug has and a proper bridle to properly align it then everything goes fine for everybody.

3. It's absolute bullshit that tugs are endangered by out of position gliders with Tad-O-Links. Watch MG here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_n5B3-MIC4



Comes off the cart like he's doing a goddam platform tow launch. See any problem with the trike?

Here's Mark Frutiger pulling a pro toad into such a severe and rapid climb that he's gonna tumble and die right after his Quest Link increases the safety of the towing operation:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

Zack hit the lift a few seconds after I did. He was high and to the right of the tug and was out of my mirror when the weak ling broke. The load on the tug was not excessive as with a lockout, but I was not surprised when the weak link broke. I was still in the thermal when I caught sight of Zack again. I did not see the entry to the tumble, but I did see two revolutions of a forward tumble before kicking the tug around to land. The thermal was still active in the area that I had just launched from so I did a go round and landed on a runway 90 degrees cross to the direction we were towing in.

What happened to the violent pitch-down he was supposed to experience? And are you gonna tell me that bisfal...

018-0724
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5565/14367992595_266ce1fab8_o.png


...was having the same kind of alignment effect that Zack Marzec was? Zack was having zero effect on the Dragonfly and bisfal was doing some small fraction of that.

Here's the next frame - after the Quest Link pops:

019-0725
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3854/14367992265_7f220637c2_o.png


The tug's supposed to be on the horizon. How far off is he? Any farther off than Dr. Trisa Tilletti is doing a tandem training flight and having the student explore the limits of the Cone of Safety? If the motherfucker is on the verge of eating it at this point how come he hasn't already given his joystick mounted good-decision-in-the-interest-of-the-glider's-safety lever...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg


...a little squeeze?

How 'bout Felix here:



...pro toading behind Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney?

If these motherfuckers were REALLY concerned about anybody's safety at the up and down wind ends of the rope they'd mandate two point bridles and jump on the best release technology available...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=745
Scooter Tow Crash

Bill Cummings - 2011/08/06 19:59:36 UTC

I've spent a good bit of time studying Tad's links, some of which can be found on:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=727
Input from Tad please.

I've seen a lot of towing ideas and equipment over my 33 years of towing hang gliders and being towed in hang gliders.

The procedures and equipment that Tad advocates, to me, look to be the best.

Anyone that has a sharp eye for safety will take some time to study his posts.

...instead of telling me in the magazine...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

What we have covered in this article is practical information and knowledge gleaned from the real world of aerotowing, developed over decades and hundreds of thousands of tows by experts in the field. This information has practical external validity. Hopefully, someone will develop methods and technology that work better than what we are using as standard practice today. Like the methods and technology used today, it is unlikely that the new technology will be dictated onto us as a de jure standard. Rather, to become a de facto standard, that new technology will need to be made available in the marketplace, proven in the real world, and then embraced by our sport.

...that I could take my untold thousands of hours of release system development and shove them up my ass.

And if they were the least bit concerned about the back end guy...

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

...they'd stop pissing all over the USHGA SOPs and FAA aerotow regulations and fix their goddam pieces o' shit Dragonflies and tow assemblies to make sure there were NEVER any rope breaks or premature releases instead of gearing for the precise opposite and telling us all how much safer that was making everybody.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1638
Basement Bob

Bill Cummings - 2014/11/20 00:43:20 UTC

I also want to thank you for your position of support for Bob K. in his struggle with the leadership of the Torrey Pines Glider Port.

And if he comes out on top he'll make every effort to do to me on the flying site exactly what he's done and is doing on his "Association".

I see you as being 99.9% correct in every aspect of towing safety,

According to the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden, that 00.1 percent is the focal point of a safe towing system so it must be a hugely disproportionate big fucking deal.

The only disagreement I see between us is weaklink strength.

I can't figure out...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1563
Platform Launching (PL) Draft suggestions needed

Bill Cummings - 2014/06/01 18:50:41 UTC

At this point, I would pump the bar out enough to break the weak link, round-off and land. This assumes that my weak link is no more than 1.6 of my all-up weight...in my case, no more than a 350 lb breaking strength.

Bill Cummings - 2014/06/05 19:41:58 UTC

I use 160 Kg (353 pounds) as my highest value weaklink for payout towing with a winch/reel with too much rope on it.

Bill Cummings - 2014/06/01 18:50:41 UTC

Other smaller sized winch/reels that also have 1100 Meters of line has a lot of nesting that has caused me to up my weaklink strength to my personal maximum of about 160 Kilograms.

Without a payout winch/reel, static towing (ST) my weaklink of choice is 99.8 Kilograms saying it our wrong USA way would be about 220 Pounds.

...what your position is on weak link strength or what you're trying to accomplish with it. There are only about five solid statements one can make about any weak link...

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

- It'll break before the glider does.

09-1116
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8203/29011379445_8956477e20_o.png


- It doesn't consult with any humans before it functions.

04-10821
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5040/14001150629_0912a4297e_o.png

05-10822
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7401/14001202297_344c992ab1_o.png

06-10907
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2934/14001166850_fda459a7ef_o.png


- Your angle of attack goes way the fuck up when it breaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM


- The glider will IMMEDIATELY stop going up and go the other way until the surface stops it.

Donnell Hewett - 1980/12

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation."

- It's most likely to break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg

I will go to my grave thinking that I am correct and that you are wrong.

And I'm gonna go to my grave KNOWING that I am correct and that you are wrong.

I thank you for printing your beliefs.

And the fact that you're referring to your position as BELIEFS - as one would for whatever flavor of idiot religion one subscribes to - pretty much nails things down. They're BELIEFS because you can't demonstrate any validity using math, physics, experiments, or video evidence.

Most of the pilots are adults and have the capacity to read what each of us say and make their own informed decision.

If they did and were capable of making CORRECT, REALITY BASED decisions then everyone would be on precisely the same page. Pretty much everybody and his dog understands what's involved in a dolly launch and thus one dolly launch is pretty much identical to another. And when a dolly launch is fucked up there's zero controversy about what went wrong. But with weak links...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/11 19:22:18 UTC

Of course not... it's Asshole-ese.

Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.

Here is my chance to preach at you Tad and I have the feeling that you will read this since you obviously crave attention.

Putting aside the fact that that sentence makes no sense...

I have attention coming outta my ass. It's not fun. If this sport weren't as terminally fucked up as it is I'd have been so happy just to be an ordinary muppet showing up on a few good weekends a year, spending a couple hours climbing to clouds, having some beers with buddies, and going back home.

Your message would be would so much more digestible if what you typed did not include attacks on people calling them idiots and murderers (even if it's true).

I gave up on digestible message attempts years ago. The assholes in and running this sport just piss all over them and the messenger even more. I'm happy just creating a record for folk in the future to look back at after another one of their idiot buddies has bought it.

Doing so automatically puts up a wall of resistance to what you have to offer.

Not to people worth saving.

Allow me to be your writing coach here.
You have so much knowledge about towing and it is obvious that you are so much more intelligent than I am.

1. This stuff doesn't require much in the way of intelligence. It DOES however require desires to learn, the questioning of assumptions, and often active participation in discussions. And you're not participating.

2. Then why when some total piece o' shit motherfucker posts total crap like THIS:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39347
Please explain yourself without deleting me

Orion Price - 2014/10/01 00:15:56 UTC

The problem with tad:

1. He's been writing the FAA trying to get aero-tow governmentally regulated according to his protocol. If you chance upon his faux scholarly-ish article about areo tow safety you will see a window into the mind of a mad man. It's like 80 pages of ASCII text drawings of his Rube Goldberg designs. He's been mailing, and emailing his article to government agencies. I'm sure his communications get filed along with alien sightings, crop circles, and perpetual motion machines the FAA receives from other crackpots. Still weird behavior.

2. He open and notoriously taunts the families of dead pilots. This is seriously low. If you think that only someone without balls could do such a thing, then you'd be right. He literally has no testicles. He had them surgically removed. Ask him about it, he'll tell you about life walking around with a flat sack. Low T, it's just a number.

3. A chance to defend himself? Do the dead pilots he lampoons get to defend themselves? Does anyone on his own forum get to defend themselves? Both are a no. He bans most everyone on his forum. It's a PHPBB forum just like ozreport is, so it looks and feels similar. However all the posts are by one person. He'll take a silly single thread from hanggling.org and write a 20 page treatise covering every post and reply with his opinion on it. It's a seriously time consuming endeavor he's on.

...do you say NOTHING?

Do something about getting banned everywhere and get the word out. You are truly an Encyclopedia about towing.

But a very questionable encyclopedia 'cause you're gonna go to your grave believing I'm wrong.

Thanks again for your understanding about Bob K's situation.

I have a whole lot more understanding about Bob K's situation then I ever wanted. It would be so much more fun standing up for principles if the victim weren't an evil lying sociopath.

Consider me a friend Tad, Bill C.

What's that mean? I read and address everything relevant YOU say on the Bob and Davis Shows but you pretty obviously don't hold a candle to reciprocation. I've invited you over here to participate in these discussions and you've done zilch in response.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=884
The Bob Show

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/12/13 05:55:39 UTC

If I boot you permanently it will be due to my concerns over the topic we discussed on the phone. This forum should be a safe place for people of varying ages to visit. You have not given me any assurances that's true with you on this forum.

And you booted me permanently using the pretense that you were concerned that The Bob Show be a safe place for people of varying ages to visit. And when I told you on the phone what a total load of crap that was as you - and everybody and his dog - could see my posts and interactions you were ready for me with your bullshit about me being able to communicate with all your registered people of varying ages via Personal Messages to which you had no access.

But it fairly recently occurred to me that if I gave you my password your bullshit pretense would go totally down the toilet where it belongs, right Bob? Or are you gonna counter with some crap about how you don't have time to run the couple of clicks it would take to run periodic checks or that you might not be able to check frequently enough to intervene in time to save one of your innocent little darlings from me?

I can water that down by telling you that you can give my password to as many of your deputy morality cops as you bloody well please.

A little note here, Bob... For well over two decades I've had ZERO restrictions on what people of varying ages I can communicate and associate with under the laws of these democratically established government entities. But you don't have the slightest respect for anything but a perpetual provisionary dictatorship with you in total control.

Ooh! I just waded around in the Administrator Control Panel and made some an interesting discovery. I can lock an individual user out of sending/receiving Personal Messages! You're phpBB too so you can also lock an individual user out of sending/receiving Personal Messages. So your bullshit justification for banning me just got blown to hell.

Now...

I have ZERO desire to ever dignify or legitimize your rotten little cult with another post of so much as a punctuation mark with my name above it. What I DO want, however, is the ability to log in under my established preferences, see the members list, run the searches - just like any known or anonymous asshole you click into your hollowed master race ranks.

A little while ago, at 2014/11/22 03:30:58 UTC, I figured out how to unban you and fired off the critical click. Also disabled your Personal Messaging capability. However, consider yourself still officially banned, and please agree not to post anything or edit old posts. I banned you - in sharp contrast to the bullshit you pulled on me - for massively legitimate reasons...

miguel - 2012/05/07 17:22:51 UTC

Very poor taste, Bob.

...and I don't think you're gonna find many people who would disagree with that.

I would really appreciate your reciprocating. Block my PM capabilities, plug me back in, pull me out of your fuckin' Basement. I won't ever again post anything and I never had the ability to edit anything after an hour or sumpin' anyway.

If you don't but adhere to my terms I'll leave you plugged in anyway. That way you'll sound considerably less noble when you spew crap like:

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/19 19:12:48 UTC

As it stands (and evidenced above), Nobody remains free to post in the "Free Speech Zone" even to this day. Despite Tad's complaints, that's far more of a voice than Tad has given to myself on his forum. So Tad, if you want to argue for Nobody to post MORE on our forum, then maybe you should FIRST allow me and others the same posting rights on your forum that he ALREADY HAS on ours.

'specially considering that I have zillions of full, in context quotes of yours addressed over here with you over there pretending I don't exist.

P.S. So what's your best estimate of the number of people of varying ages I've been able to victimize over here at Kite Strings in the four years minus one day it's been up and running without your supervision? Have you notified J. Edgar Hoover's outfit about the serious threat I'm posing?

Asshole.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1638
Basement Bob

Steve Davy - 2014/11/22 08:33:02 UTC

Hate to break the news to you, Bill, but the tugs have functional releases at their end of the rope.

FUNCTIONAL releases? Maybe SOME...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16384
Tow Release Malfunction

Jim Rooney - 2010/03/26 20:54:43 UTC

Dude, quit bogarting that stuff
How's it go? Never say never.

Bent pin releases are indeed very very reliable. But 100%? Nope. It's exceptionally rare, but they jam. All mechanical things do.

If they were perfection, everyone would be using them. They're not. As with all things, they are a tradeoff. Having that big ole chunk of metal on my sternum as I depart a launch dolly, just a couple feet off the ground, is not my idea of a good situation to be in.

What do they call them again? "Chest Crushers"?

So, good? Yes.
Perfect? No.

...of the time. Well...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...MAYBE all of the time. It's a bit hard to tell.

So tell me how bisfal was putting the tug in danger.

The tug might not have realized he was in danger. He might have been nosed back into the runway before figuring out that anything was wrong. These guys...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Brad Gryder - 2013/02/21 23:25:31 UTC

Sorry, but that's not the best answer. We don't live in a perfect world of quantum knowns and 100% reliabilities. Fine-tuning a weak link isn't going to get us but so far. There's also a way to swing your body way outside the control frame so it stays up there while you reach out with one hand and release. Come on - do some pushups this winter. See if you can advance up to some one-arm pushups.

...tend not to be all that bright. And unfortunately many hang glider pilots do not appreciate or understand the significant risks repeatedly taken by tug pilots and aerotow club or flight park operators on behalf of hang glider pilots so that the hang glider pilots can have safe tows and have fun.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4592
Weaklinks

Tracy Tillman - 2005/02/08 19:16:10 UTC

Unfortunately, many hang glider pilots do not appreciate or understand the significant risks repeatedly taken by tug pilots and aerotow club or flight park operators, on behalf of hang glider pilots so that the hang glider pilots can have safe tows and have fun.

Tandem thrill riders are way less appreciative - which is way the fuck out of proportion since their packages can be twice as heavy as ours and thus they kill nearly twice as many tug pilots as we do. They even managed to kill this one:



after she'd dumped her passengers in the soybean field off the end of the runway and climbed out a couple hundred feet.

What was the strength of bisfal bisto's weak link in that video, Bill?

130. We know that for two reasons...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

Thought I already answered that one... instead of quoting myself (have a look back if you don't believe me), I'll just reiterate it.

I don't advocate anything.
I use what we use at the flight parks. It's time tested and proven... and works a hell of a lot better than all the other bullshit I've seen out there.

130lb greenspot (greenspun?) cortland fishing line.
In stock at Quest, Highland, Eastern Shore, Kitty Hawk Kites, Florida Ridge, and I'm pretty sure Wallaby, Lookout and Morningside.
Not sure what Tracy up at Cloud Nine uses, but I'll put bets on the same.

Did I miss any?
Is it clear what I mean by "We"?
I didn't make the system up.
And I'm not so arrogant to think that my precious little ideas are going to magically revolutionise the industry.
There are far smarter people than me working this out.
I know, I've worked with them.
(Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit... for example.)

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

Wallaby Ranch - 2014/11/22

If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

No brainer.

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/22 18:19:41 UTC

Hello Tad,

I've read your post, but I'm not sure what you're asking about.

Yeah, you seem to have that problem quite a bit.

I believe you should already be able to search our site.

Not logged in as Basement Tad I can't. The search option vanishes - along with photos in posts:

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

And, Basement Steve tells me, the Rio Grande Soaring and Austin Free Flight Associations.

I've set the search ability up for people to use even if they're not logged in.

Exactly. Not-Logged-In Sexual Predator Tad has access that Logged-In Basement Tad doesn't.

However, I don't think that's the case on Kite Strings. I've tried a few searches on your site this morning, and I don't think it's working. For example, I typed in "Greenspot" and got this:

The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: greenspot.
You must specify at least one word to search for. Each word must consist of at least 3 characters and must not contain more than 14 characters excluding wildcards.

That happens whether you're a logged in user or not. Lotsa these forum search functions totally suck in the exact same way. Try Google using:
Greenspot site:www.kitestrings.org

Can you write back with exactly what you want to accomplish and include a specific proposal?

I could but I've already done that and made everything blindingly clear and I won't waste my time repeating the effort. If you've got a reading comprehension problem then find somebody who doesn't to help you.

Thanks,
Bob

Get fucked.

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/22 18:26:38 UTC

P.S. I am reasonably happy with the current arrangement.

Really?
- I'm not trying hard enough then. I'll see what I can do to make you as unhappy as possible.
- And Davis, after a decade or so of shoving 130 pound Greenspot down everyone's throat, is now reasonably happy with 200.

The US Hawks and Kitestrings serve different purposes and somewhat different communities of pilots.

Yeah...

- The purpose of The Bob Show is to lure in as many idiots and assholes as possible, con them into thinking they're existing in some democratic free speech paradise where they actually matter as individuals and bend them, if necessary, to subjugate themselves to every whim of His Imperial Majesty Bob the First and Last.

- The purpose of Kite Strings is to assemble top quality people, pilots, writers, and fighters to demolish evil little entities like yours, Jack's, Davis's, Peter's.

I generally don't feel the need to post to your forum...

Nah, you probably burned yourself out there with your unrepentant child molester marathon campaign. And you never contributed anything over here other than the same kinds of distractions, disruptions, sabotage that you did and do on your dump over there.

...and you've said you don't want to post to mine.

OH! So you DO have some minimal level of reading comprehension capacity! Good job!

The one thing that I would request is a reduction in the "war" of rhetoric aimed at myself and others on the US Hawks.

Request denied. Presently gearing to REALLY ramp it up.

We do share many similar goals...

VERY little. I don't wanna see anybody arrested and hauled off to jail for taking pictures at a public park flying site, you don't wanna see Bob arrested and hauled off to jail for taking pictures at a public park flying site.

...and I think we hurt each other...

You have no more ability to hurt me. You were able to make things reasonably miserable for me for a long time a couple years ago but the downside was I learned all of your tricks - like the one your trying to pull now with your "specific proposal" bullshit. I learned how to deal with you and manipulators like you.

...and give more joy to our shared opponents...

Who are they? MY opponents are now effectively out of action. They're scared too shitless to open their mouths. I can shift a lot more focus on you now.

...than we gain with these exchanges.

We didn't need to have this exchange, Bob. That was your choice.

Just a thought....

Really crappy one. One of thousands.

Bob

Get fucked again.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1638
Basement Bob

Bill Cummings - 2014/11/21 05:40:04 UTC

The pilot was out of position putting the tug pilot at risk.

Obviously.

019-0725
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3854/14367992265_7f220637c2_o.png


The guy was obviously AT rated so how come he'd been signed off without being able to recognize that critical angle at which the tug pilot was at risk and make the easy reach to his very very reliable Quallaby Release well before that point? Do we sign off Twos who can't complete final approach without knocking the hat off of somebody standing in the breakdown area?

It was time to release to not endanger the tug pilot.

Right. The tug pilot should be endangered late at night when he's a little drunk and you've got three or four big guys with clubs to help you.

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/22 16:50:05 UTC

It sure looks like he had plenty of time to do a better landing than that. The weak link break was pretty much a non-event with regard to flight attitude and control. Once that pilot gave the go-ahead to launch, he was going to make a landing one way or another, and he did a poor job on this one.

From what I can tell, if he had broken a stronger weak link, the flight attitude change resulting from that break would have been more dramatic. So while increasing the strength of a weak link does decrease the frequency of breaks, I believe the results of such breaks will be much more dramatic and may present the greater risk.

Let me add that I have very little experience with towing, and I've been somewhat "on the fence" with regard to weak link strength arguments. Watching how mildly the glider responded to this particular break is persuasive evidence for the "lighter" weak link argument. The lighter weak link also protects the pilot from a tug pilot who might release prematurely. The weak link essentially ensures that the tug pilot cannot release you while under dangerously high tow tension ... because you'll never be under dangerously high tow tension.

That sounds scripted. Stereotypical USHGA / Aerotow Industry party line. There must be some kind of manual that USHGA distributes to its Directors with guidelines on how to write crap like that.

The weak link essentially ensures that the tug pilot cannot release you while under dangerously high tow tension ... because you'll never be under dangerously high tow tension.

What's "dangerously high tow tension"? That piece of shit blew at something around three quarters of a G - near or quite possibly under the bottom of the legal range. How come sailplane manufacturer's specify 1.3 to 1.4 times max certified operating weight, USHGA recommends one and a half Gs, and the FAA and USHGA say that twice max certified operating weight is safe and legal tow tension?

How come not one aerotow professional - front or back ender - in the history of the sport has ever lifted a finger to lower the top end and forever eliminate any threat of this "dangerously high tow tension" times two or more?

Gawd I hate your fuckin' guts, Bob. I'm gonna die hating your fuckin' guts and I'm gonna do as much as I can manage to make your life miserable while I'm alive and reasonably functional.

P.S. If that tow angle and/or that towline tension was/were dangerously high then aerotowing hang gliders will never be safe for anyone. We need to scrap it before we kill one more person of a varying age.

There must be some kind of manual that USHGA distributes to its Directors with guidelines on how to write crap like that.

Reminds me of this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkUTQiRy1cg