Second anniversary of the second day of the second month - right about now. This person had more of a positive impact on hang gliding than any other single individual in the history of the sport since John Dickenson.
Quest Air - 2013/02/03
Yesterday at Quest we lost our good friend, Zach Marzec, in a hang gliding accident. We are all in shock and heartbroken here and are all pulling together to support his girlfriend, Clara. We will post more about the accident in days to come but for now I will say that conditions were very benign with light winds and blue skies. The accident occurred low on tow when Zach apparently hit very turbulent air possibly caused by a dust devil without the dust to make it visible. It appears that his glider was in good, flyable condition and rigged properly. We are all just sick.
Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!
I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.
Somebody find me a post from anybody anywhere in remembrance of him and the tragedy that took his life - Quest, Kitty Hawk, Ridgely, the Davis, Jack, Peter, Bob, Cragin Shows, the Tjaden twins, Mark Frutiger, Clara Mosely, Dr. Trisa Tilletti, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney...
Was it Koch two stage release failure? And not very nice stall till the ground :/ but at least did not hit the runway
- Stall? As a result of coming off tow? Rubbish. Inconvenience.
- Stalls are totally harmless anyway - after you've put in the practice to know how to handle them.
Ivan Mihaljević
Yeah it was a Koch two stage release. But it wasent a failiure. He simply pushed both buttons at the same time, and didnt listen what i told him. It was his sixth flight. But all in all, he is ok.
Of course he is. Better off in fact. Unless you're trying to make more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow. Damn good thing he didn't listen to what you told him.
Harold Wickham - 2008/07/04 16:16:27 UTC
Las Vegas
Truck Towing is awesome.... I tow on a Dry Lake bed just south of Las Vegas with the infamous Radwacker and Desert skywalkers (Desertskywalkers.com)
While it is a truely awesome way to get up... It ain't no joke... It requires exceptional attention to detail... and a Tow Technician (driver) that is at the top of his (or her) game... It is again an excellent way to get up but knowledge and experience are a must... Things can get out of control real quick with some unsual consequences...
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974
"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson
Donnell Hewett - 1980/12
Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation."
I also like that this discussion emphasizes that breaking a weak link is something that can be practiced - just like we practice stalls - so we understand how to handle them and to not be afraid of them. I had a terrifying stall experience with my instructor when I was learning to fly airplanes back in the 70s. For a long time I feared getting close to stall. As long as I feared stalls, I was not spending much time getting comfortable with them, and that didn't make me a better pilot. So there's a lot to be said for safely learning to handle the inevitable rather than trying to come up with some way to avoid the inevitable.
Nice job Bill !!!!
May not be as cock-eyed as he looks. Looks like the runway is sloping away from us a bit.
07-0713
Sure not coming off with a lot of airspeed.
08-0720
09-0800
Left wing's low.
10-0803
11-0809
Two point. Release anchor / trim point looks to be a wee bit shy of a foot in front of the control frame apex.
12-0815
There's no brake lever velcroed to the left downtime. And I'm pretty sure there's no lever on the basetube so he's almost certainly got his hand in a loop.
13-0819
He's not getting over to get his right wing down.
14-0824
15-0904
16-0911
17-0920
18-1001
The release mechanism looks too heavy to be one of Joe's.
19-1009
The release mechanism COULD be a spinnaker shackle turned sideways but I'd bet twenty bucks he's using the New and Improved Lockout Mountain Flight Park Release that isn't warranted as suitable for towing anything. And remember:
Matt Taber - 2009/07/12
The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.
20-1014
21-1018
22-1102
23-1108
24-1116
25-1122
Not correcting.
26-1201
27-1207
28-1211
Serious trouble. Now would be a really good time to blow tow. Or at least stuff the fucking bar.
29-1219
30-1301
This is about the last good look we have of the bridle.
If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.
During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?
Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC
As for being in a situation where you can't or don't want to let go, Ryan's got the right idea. They're called "weak" links for a reason. Overload that puppy and you bet your ass it's going to break.
You can tell me till you're blue in the face about situations where it theoretically won't let go or you can drone on and on about how "weaklinks only protect the glider" (which is BS btw)... and I can tell ya... I could give a crap, cuz just pitch out abruptly and that little piece of string doesn't have a chance in hell. Take your theory and shove it... I'm saving my a$$.
38-1507
This is the first we see of the parachute on the back side of the wing - four frames after we last saw it about to disappear behind the front. It's open. The instant hands free release has worked. Another solid bump for the ol' track record.
39-1509
The instant hands free release has worked. Now all we gotta do is fly away.
40-1512
Good thing we used a standard aerotow weak link and thus didn't endanger the tug. I know how those guys feel about their safety margins.
I don't think this is as bad as it looks for the pilot. It looks like he's taking a bounce but I'm pretty sure he's just being yo-yoed back up by what's left of his glider.
Roudnice nad Labem - 50°24'41.64" N 014°13'29.25" E - AirLony Skylane OK-RUO-77
Yeah, nice alternative to the piece o' shit Dragonfly and the piece o' shit assholes who fly them. Amazing that guy is able to fly pro toad behind it as easily as he does.
Rebro - 2015/02/18 15:04:16 UTC
Slovakia
It's nice to see that you are interesting of flying in the middle Europe
We'd be a lot more interesting if you guys would keep us a lot better tuned in to what's going on over there.
Diev Hart - 2015/02/18 16:12:10 UTC
What type of tug plane is that? And what speed (mph) are you guys towing at?....looks fun
Bill Jennings - 2015/02/18 18:58:29 UTC
SE Tennessee
Looks like a Cessna 152. Without VGs I would think it would be too fast to be a tug for HG wings. Clean stall (that 152 departed with flaps up) is about 45kts, or about 52mph. Dirty stall is only about 6kts slower.
Jim Gaar - 2015/02/18 19:02:14 UTC
Great example of a lockout and the results!!
No shit, asshole!!
Good thing it was so low and quick...
Yeah, that's what I was thinking...
42-1520
45-1610
54-1706
Gawd only knows what might have happened if it had been higher and more gradual.
Yeah, let's spend a few pages talking about that one.
Diev Hart - 2015/02/18 21:57:00 UTC
Hummm....seems a bit close to the plane....I would want to be a bit further back....like 100+ft. ..glad that corner bracket didn't dig-in....no wheels=:-(
Fuckin' moron.
drachenjoe - 2015/02/18 21:58:01 UTC
Must be a Cessna "Ultralight" copy....
My friends with their VX rigids used to aerotow with ultralights, even one time with a Piper PA-18....
Alan Deikman - 2015/02/18 23:29:51 UTC
I can imagine the prop wash and wake turbulence being an even bigger problem even at the end of that long rope. However that guy did a great job at staying in the diamond at that speed.
How 'bout the guy on the Litespeed? Any comment?
Michael Farren - 2015/02/18 23:37:07 UTC
South Bunbury
The nose up angle on the T2C looks very high. I have not done any aero tows but this trolley looks set up differently to others I have seen. What is the correct angle of attack (nose up) for gliders on aero tow launch trolley or doesn't it matter?
It doesn't fuckin' matter all that much. The keel lifts out of its cradle as you got up to speed and the glider trims. Is this the most important issue we have to talk about on this thread?
Jason Boehm - 2015/02/18 23:50:19 UTC
The ropes we tow sailplanes with are 150+
Id want at least that I would think
What's the best place to mount a hook knife?
Nic Welbourn - 2015/02/19 00:44:47 UTC
I'm no AT expert (by a long shot), but it does look a bit high and might have had something to do with coming off the cart so quickly...
No.
...he didn't exactly hang on to the cart though.
So then it's totally irrelevant, isn't it?
Wow that guy got lucky. Wheels!!
Ya got an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less...
Lockout is the main reason I no longer aerotow, margin of error on a thermic day is pretty thin for mine.
And I'm sure you used the very best of equipment...
05-215
07-300
08-301
09-304
11-311
15-413
Like Ollie here.
Brian Scharp - 2015/02/19 16:26:13 UTC
Too bad he wasn't able to release sooner.
Even with the total piece of shit he velcroed onto his downtube as an excuse for a release it was almost certainly a case of not releasing sooner (at all, actually) rather than not being able to. He WAS able to fly the glider - but didn't.
Yeah, but he did not stay on top of things. Too bad, 'cause I think he was trying to do things right - two point bridle, release advertised as allowing one to blow tow with both hands on the basetube.
Topless, probably an experienced mountain guy but new and not tuned in to towing. I think when the shit hit the fan he was totally along for the ride. I'm sure he was white-knuckled on the basetube just praying for his fishing line to do the job.
Bill Bryden - 1998/12
After this accident and other similar towing accidents and incidents, a common reaction by many pilots is to question why the weak link did not break. Too often the discussion evolves into questioning the breaking strength of the weak link and suggesting that weak links with lower breaking thresholds be used.
I was recently told about a platform-launch towing incident a close friend experienced of which I was not aware. He launched and was quickly turned away from the towline. This progressed to a lockout, crashing the glider into soft ground which spared the pilot serious injury. When asked why he hadn't released, the pilot commented, "I thought the weak link would break!"
Oh, in case it's not obvious (which it doesn't seem to be), once someone starts telling me what the "sole" purpose of a weaklink is, I tune them out as they have no clue what they're talking about.
Weaklinks are there to improve the safety of the towing operation, as I've stated before.
Any time someone starts in on this "sole purpose" bullshit, it's cuz they're arguing for stronger weaklinks cuz they're breaking them and are irritated by the inconvenience. I've heard it a million times and it's a load of shit. After they've formed their opinion, then they go in search of arguments that support their opinion.
You get enough total fucking assholes telling people all about how useful fishing line is for doing many wonderful things beyond protecting against overload it's inevitable that tons of them will become believers and behave accordingly.
It will be a year ago tomorrow. All this last year I have wanted to pull together the snippets of video I have and could find from others that would help folks to remember Mark's voice, his mannerisms, his love of friends and of flight, and of Marla. The result falls far short of telling who he was and is, but hopefully it will help to stir memories from time to time through the years for those who miss him still. We miss you Mark.
The result falls far short of telling who he was and is...
Nah, it actually does a pretty good job if you know what to look and listen for - skipped hook-in checks; dead hook-in check skipper buddy; stunt landings; pro toad bridles; bicycle brake levers velcroed onto downtubes within easy reach; Robin Strid weak link snaggers; bent pin barrel releases on shoulders within easy reach connecting nice long pro toad bridles; standard aerotow weak links; releases, gliders, tugs without weak link protection; tow mast breakaway; cute chick tandem thrill riders; Dragonfly waiting for someone to make the same "rookie mistake" that Keavy Nenninger did on 2011/07/23...
...but hopefully it will help to stir memories from time to time through the years...
There's a piece of Kevlar rope, Spectra line, to hold two thousand pounds. There's a little black string I hook this one up to, it's only a piece of fishing line and that's taking all the stress. And we do that... It's called a weak link, it's in there for a safety purpose.
Fifty three words, three chunks of misinformation, the last a deadly one that got another tandem thrill ride driver killed right about that time. And somebody quote me a single syllable from Mark on Zack Marzec's safety device induced fatal whipstall. Asshole.
Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!
I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.
Why do you think it is that none of them have gotten together and pieced together a nice memorial video for him? Two anniversaries of his tragic freak accident have now come and gone and we don't seem to have heard a single peep from ANYONE about him. Why do you think that is? Almost seems like everybody in this wonderful hang gliding community of ours is bending over backwards to forget he ever existed.
Haven't heard much about Keavy since either, have we? Not even / 'specially from the NTSB. Oh well...
No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation... they want to know "NOW DAMNIT!" and there's always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.
And it's always the same.
The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.
We have a system in place.
It works.
Let it work.
Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.
RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).
Please take a deep breath. And wait.
Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)
BTW, you have no need or use of reminding me of the other tug pilot that we lost.
She was a friend of mine and an exceptionally close friend of my mates.
You will likewise not be able to inform me of anything regarding her accident.
Allow me to inform you.
She was a rookie and it was a rookie mistake made under duress and extremely low.
And your little string thing wouldn't have done jack shit in her case either.
Rookie mistake made under duress and extremely low. (And your little string thing wouldn't have done jack shit in her case either.) The NTSB keeps this stuff under wraps out of respect for the families.
So what were the the conclusions of the accident reports for:
- Chris Bulger
- Eric Aasletten
- Bill Bennett / Mike Del Signore
- Rob Richardson
- William Woloshyniuk / Victor Cox
- Mike Haas
- Robin Strid
- Arlan Birkett / Jeremiah Thompson
- Kunio Yoshimura
- Steve Elliot
- Zack Marzec
- Joe Julio
- Trevor Scott
What the fuck does it matter what conclusions of "accident" reports we do and don't get are? Nobody ever does shit to fix the problems anyway.
I tow on a Dry Lake bed just south of Las Vegas with the infamous Radwacker and Desert skywalkers (Desertskywalkers.com)
