OK Mike,
I can see why Davis felt justified in locking down the thread. There was very little interest in the material - it's only picked up about four hundred extra hits so far since it was put off bounds - and he's already gone to great lengths to describe the qualities of the best of the US systems in his advertisement.
http://ozreport.com/goodies.php
Oz Report's Useful Goodies
Oz Report's Useful Goodies
Pro tow Mini Barrel Release and Bridle, $40.
If you want two mini barrel releases (one on each side), order two of these (you'll have an extra bridle). Bridle is 750 pound Vectran.
This release won't accidently open by hitting your base tube, if you connect it to your chest tabs. It is small and easily stored. If you can't store it during flight, it is the most aerodynamic one available. The bridle is thin and gets out of your way right away. Easily stored. Also creates less drag if you don't put it away. Much stronger than your weaklink. I change bridles about once a year after about fifty tows. I've never had one break.
Vectran or Spectra Bridle for Pro tow, $15.
The top one is the Spectra, the bottom, the Vectran. The bridle is thin and gets out of your way right away. Easily stored. Also creates less drag if you don't put it away. Much stronger than your weaklink. I change my bridle once a year after about fifty tows.
V-Bridle line, extra long Vectran line, $20.
This is used connect to the keel (works with the Pro tow setup). You can connect to the keel through a weak link to a line attached to the keel, or through a bicycle/cable/spinnaker release, which is attached to a line on the keel. Vectran is used because it doesn't melt when Vectran or Spectra runs through the loop at the end of the line (if you release using a barrel release).
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Pro tow...
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So only "pros" can use it? For what safety compromises is a "pro" able compensate that a Two can't?
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If you want two mini barrel releases (one on each side)...
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Why on EARTH would ANYONE want TWO? I mean, there's almost no possibility of your fine 750 pound bridle wrapping at the tow ring and leaving you in the same shape Shane Smith was in five seconds before the end of his life two weeks ago. And even if it did you've got a weak link between the other end of the bridle and your tow loop which "serves as the second release." That'll almost certainly blow, and, even if it doesn't, just how much trouble can someone get into with the 130 pounds of tow tension that that "single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line" that you mandate for everyone else will allow?
I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
And if you can't get to one of them when the shit's hitting the fan what's the point in having two of them you can't get to when the shit's hitting the fan?
http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks
Davis Straub - 2005/02/07
For a couple of years I have flown with a doubled weaklink because, flying with a rigid wing glider, I have found that there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weaklink break.
What if you're one of the rat bastards who mandates one thing for everybody else but uses something up to the job for himself? Will a two hundred pound weak link also "serve as the second release."
How come your photo shows the release connected directly to the bridle with no weak link? What happens if the weak link blows and the bridle wraps?
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This release won't accidently open by hitting your base tube...
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That is FABULOUS Davis. And not only that, but...
When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.
You've absolutely NAILED that problem. There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that sucker's gonna accidentally open.
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...if you connect it to your chest tabs.
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As opposed to your ear lobes - a common rookie mistake.
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It is small and easily stored.
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Super!!! (Assuming you can get it disconnected from the towline in the first place.) How much of a grip can you get on those little stubs when the shit hits the fan? Assuming you can get to them at all?
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If you can't store it during flight, it is the most aerodynamic one available.
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1. Especially since the flight parks won't allow anything better to be made available on any meaningful scale.
2. Why are you using a bent pin and a short, fat, squashed barrel? Wouldn't it be more aerodynamic AND mechanically efficient AND easier to grip if you used a straight pin and a long thin barrel?
USHGA Aerotowing Guidelines
Bridle lines should be from 3/16 to 5/16 inches in diameter.
Thinner lines tend to whip around more during release and can thus entangle the towline.
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The bridle is thin and gets out of your way right away.
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http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC
Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?
Steve Davy - 2011/02/07 04:08:04
On my tenth tow the bridle snapped back and wrapped around the base tube. I was able to get it free. Only ten tows and already I was having a problem. I quit towing after that.
Yeah Davis. Make it THIN.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11655
Wrapping bridles around loops, rings, links and carabineers
Davis Straub - 2008/04/23 16:53:28 UTC
I believe that this shows that the pro-tow is a safer setup (as long as the pilot is experienced enough to handle the glider under this type of tow). Short line is a big issue in safety.
More coming.
And don't forget LONG too. Make it half a dozen times longer than it needs to be just to make sure it gets out of your way right away. That'll make in SO MUCH lighter and more aerodynamic and easier to stow. More coming. (Fucking moron.)
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Easily stored.
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Yeah, great. We heard you when you said that three sentences ago. Can't BEGIN to tell you how ABSOLUTELY THRILLED we are to know that it's easily stored. How easily is it OPERATED?
http://ozreport.com/pub/fingerlakesaccident.shtml
Her Charly Insider full-face helmet was broken through in two places (the chin and next to her eye), and Steve believes the breaks absorbed some of the impact and probably saved her life.
Elliot shattered four bones in his neck and damaged several blood vessels that supplied blood to the brain. He was flown to the Royal North Shore Hospital in Sydney and put into an induced coma but died on Monday.
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Also creates less drag if you don't put it away.
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So NOT ONLY is it "the most aerodynamic one available" "if you can't store it during flight" - as you assured it was three sentences ago - but it "also creates less drag if you don't put it away." AMAZING!!! Are you sure your charging enough for these things?
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Much stronger than your weaklink.
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WOW!!! No shit? Brilliant engineering!
Just what is MY weak link anyway, Davis? Oh yeah...
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
You'd be the one to know.
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
10. Hang Gliding Aerotow Ratings
-B. Aero Vehicle Requirements
05. The weak link at the glider end must have a breaking strength that will break before the towline tension exceeds twice the weight of the hang glider pilot and glider combination.
I fly at 320 pounds. What if I wanna fly under USHGA rules instead of your dictates? If I fly a two G weak link how much stronger is a length of 750 pound Vectran after you bend it through the tow ring?
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I change bridles about once a year after about fifty tows. I've never had one break.
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AMAZING. 750 pound Vectran, 125 pound normal tow tension maybe spiking to 200, fifty four minute tows... And you get that sucker up to three hours and twenty minutes of service time? How sad it is that your talents are wasted in hang gliding when you'd have been such a brilliant racing sailboat rigger.
And all these other crappy bridles that everyone else is using are going off like popcorn and need to be replaced after two or three weekends.
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You can connect to the keel through a weak link to a line attached to the keel...
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So you don't even need to have a release up there 'cause a weak link "serves as the second release" just fine. Wow! Brilliant.
Peter Roth - 1983/11
Neu-Isenburg, Germany
Now to our Skyting experience. All our training is done using a skyting bridle. First we used the horse release and now, after some serious mishaps we have changed to a three-ring release, triggering the keel release first and having an auto release to the pilot. For additional safety we also use an additional auto-release running from pilot to keel. We found this to be necessary after a malfunction of the old keel release.
The pilot released his line, the drag chute opened, seeing this the winch operator assumed that all attachments were away and pulled on full power to regain the rope. At this time the rope was still connected to the keel. Just as the pilot tried to release manually, full power to the keel jerked the glider into a vertical dive. The pilot was thrown into the sail. At this instant, the bolt holding the crosstubes together sheared off and the glider folded up, spiraling in a vertical dive. The pilot could not throw his parachute.
Denis Cummings - 1983/12
Singleton, New South Wales
Pilot's 2-release type bridle released from the body ring prematurely. Top rope release still secure. Pilot was at top of tow. Glider flipped over (tuck & tumble) and the king post collapsed.
Dave McGill - 1984/03
Blenheim, New Zealand
On Sunday, 11 December 1983, at approximately 12:15 pm, intermediate pilot Rich Moore was injured while skyting his Moyes Missile 180R at the Woodborne Airport (Air Base) Blenheim, New Zealand. The accident occurred during Richy's second flight. The wind on T.O. was approximately 60 degrees off which doesn't seem to affect us when towing. Richy had a good T.O. and seemed to be controlling the glider in a satisfactory manner. When he was at approximately two to four hundred feet, the glider nosed down and tucked in an inside loop. At the bottom of the loop the glider's wings folded up and it flat spun into the ground. Richy was very lucky to sustain only a concussion and a dislocated shoulder. The glider's airframe was essentially totaled: broken keel, left crossbar, kingpost, battens, right downtube, badly ripped sail.
On seeing the video, the bottom release released prematurely causing the glider to tuck.
http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds
Davis Straub - 2005/01/11
Hay, New South Wales
I personally can't see a good reason to cancel today's task. We already had a canceled day and a bunch of morose pilots hanging around the airport upset that someone had died towing. There is nothing we can do for the dead pilot.
What really needs to be focused on is what can we do now to make it as safe as possible for other pilots who are still with us.
Most pilots here are towing off their shoulders. Those pilots who are also towing off the keel are now required to have a release at the keel if they have a bridle release at their shoulders requiring the bridle line to slip through the that connects to the rope connecting to the tug. If you don't have a release at the keel, then you will not be allowed to tow with this system.
One can probably assume that in Davis's "the that connects to the rope connecting to the tug" gibberish he's talking about what would - on a sane person's configuration - be half of the secondary bridle needing to feed through the unprotected bottom eye of the primary bridle in order to free that bottom end to possibly clear the tow ring.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11655
Wrapping bridles around loops, rings, links and carabineers
Davis Straub - 2008/04/23 14:33:56 UTC
Santa Cruz Flats, Arizona
Is this an issue?
http://ozreport.com/9.188
Tow bridles
Davis Straub - 2005/09/13
I once had a pro-tow Spectra bridle snag or wrap around the end of the tow rope when there was no ring or carabineer at the end of the tow rope, just a loop. I had two barrel releases and I just released the other barrel and let my bridle go by-bye.
So the loop at the end of the tow rope was the real problem. With metal rings, links, carabineers, there doesn't seem to be quite that problem. But it is more interesting than that. I also wrote in this article a statement that Tracy Tillman from Cloud 9 made:
He told me that he saw Jim Prahl at Quest Air, a few years ago, wrap the upper portion of his Spectra V-bridle around the ring at the end of the tow rope and have the tug almost tuck his glider. He also told me that he had heard that this had been an ongoing problem, that every once in a while Spectra V-bridles wrapped around rings.
Well Jim Prahl is here at the Santa Cruz Flats Race so on the practice day I had an extensive discussion with him about this incident and about carabineers in general.
First, as to the incident, this was actually a test and in the test Jim Prahl actually tied a rag to one end of the spectra rope on his shoulders so that it would be sure to catch and hold as the rope slid through the loop at the end of the V-bridle coming from the keel. He was trying to test to see if the weaklink at the keel end of the V-bridle line would break when the rag stuck. Well it didn't.
What happened when Jim released the barrel on his shoulder and the rag and bridle stuck in the line of the V-bridle, was that the nose of the Wills Wing Falcon pitched straight down instantly. Jim was left towing from the keel only at about a foot in front of the carabineer/hang loop.
Now Jim was not so dumb as to do this test without a backup plan (although he didn't expect the glider to pitch down so rapidly). He had the weaklink from the V-bridle line attached to a spinnaker shackle that was connected to a brake type release. He had his hand on the brake lever. When he released the barrel release, and the rag snagged the line, he didn't have time to hit the brake lever before the nose went over (and the weaklink didn't break). He then hit the brake lever and fortunately the glider recovered (it was a Falcon after all).
The point of this experiment was to see if it was okay to just release from the barrel release and do away with the expensive brake lever, cable assembly, and spinnaker release. Just connect the V-bridle line to the keel with a weaklink that would supposedly break if the shoulder line snagged in the loop (which I proved was possible). Jim proved that this was perhaps not a good idea.
Again, I have a direct personal and minor financial interest in the issues raised by this discussion.
JD Guillemette - 2008/04/23 15:32:54 UTC
I recently heard the same story ... but I was miss-informed. I thought Jim purposely had NO weak link at the keel release for the test. I had no idea that he had a weak link and that it DIDN'T break.
That is the scariest thing I have ever heard.
I know some pilots that routinely release form the shoulder releases and save the keel release for a backup, they claim they don't have to stow the V-bridle that way. I thought that procedure seemed a little fishy.
I once had my V-bridle snag the tow line loop after releasing from the keel. Non-event, I just pulled my barrel release on my shoulder and let the v-bridle go Bye-Bye as well.
01. So we do the equivalent of instantly suspending two or three sacks of concrete from the keel a foot in front of the hang point and how surprised should we be at what happens next?
...if the shoulder line snagged in the loop (which I proved was possible).
02. Thank you SO much Davis, but I think that that concept was pretty well understood within a half an hour of the invention of rope. I'm also pretty sure that your average weaver finch would be curious as to why somebody would need to state anything that fucking obvious.
In all of my experience as a pilot -- tandem pilot and tug pilot I have not seen, heard about or experienced this. Is it really an issue or a perceived issue?
But maybe you could spend a couple of days with trying to convince Matt - he's a bit slow on the uptake.
03. And even for people who had that much lead coming through the water fountain at preschool we had pretty good field evidence pretty shortly after Donnell introduced the concept of insane release configurations to the world hang gliding community.
04. AFTER Robin gets killed at Hay - in a tiny bit shy of five years the second life destroyed as a consequence of virtually nonexistent safety standards at that competition venue - the moronic meet organizers decide that they should probably stop letting people release from the bottom.
05. UNLESS they have a release up top - then it's still totally cool.
06. Somewhere around that time Jim Prahl - either unaware of or not convinced by numerous examples from the past and not content to sit down and think things through - has another go at tucking and destroying a glider.
07. Even anticipating what should've been obvious on the ground and keeping a finger on the trigger the shit hits so fast and so violently that he can't get off a shot until his glider and life are seriously endangered.
08. But even this little loop of 130 pound Greenspot - which normally has no problem blowing at random in smooth air when the tow tension is split by the bridle - holds just fine when subjected to the full load when it's transmitting it to the keel. So - like we didn't know already - a half G going to the wrong place on the glider is plenty enough to kill us.
09. So Jim... What was the point of that exercise? If the weak link HAD blown in that single instance were you gonna tell people, "Go ahead and release from the bottom if you don't feel like dealing with a primary bridle. You won't get in any trouble if either the secondary wraps at the primary or the primary wraps at the tow ring - the weak link will blow before you tuck."?
10. And were you gonna assume that since EVERYBODY would be using THAT particular weak link that this advice would be good for EVERYBODY?
11. Plan A didn't work, Plan B didn't work. What would Plan C have been if plan B.5 hadn't come off? Parachutes don't have great records of flawless operation in these sorts of situations.
12. And regarding Plan B.5... Is a flawless performance of a spinnaker shackle / cable / brake lever release something that you wanna bet your life on in circumstances like this?
I just kept hitting the brake lever for a few seconds in WTF mode, and the instructor used the barrel release.
And remember... You've already used your secondary.
13. Again... What was the point supposed to be?
14. What's the next project? A wheel on the kingpost for people too lazy to get the glider right side up before landing?
15. This "experiment" is so catastrophic that even someone of JD's comprehension level has the crap scared out of him.
16. But nevertheless - coming on THREE YEARS after this stupid motherfucker has reported on this barely failed suicide attempt - he's telling his adoring customers that it's perfectly OK to omit a two point release and let go from the bottom with total confidence in a weak link at the top failing WHEN one of either of two likely jams occurs.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11591
Where to put the weaklink - the HGFA rules
Rohan Holtkamp - 2008/04/22 15:27:05 UTC
Once again history has shown us that this thread-through system can hook up and the hang glider remains being towed by the keel only, with the bridle well out of reach of even a hook knife. I know of just one pilot to survive this type of hook-up, took him some twelve months to walk again though.
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...or through a bicycle/cable/spinnaker release...
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I just kept hitting the brake lever for a few seconds in WTF mode, and the instructor used the barrel release.
Robin's own release failed to release. Do not use a 'Wichard' or 'spinnaker' release directly connected to a string or rope. This type of metal release has a metal knob on the opening arm that a rope will catch on, even when the release is activated and open.
I tried to release but my body was off centered and could not reach the release.
When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it.
Right, if you're gonna use a piece of shit secondary you better combine it with a piece of shit primary - otherwise you might get a matter/antimatter thing going.
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Vectran is used because it doesn't melt when Vectran or Spectra runs through the loop at the end of the line (if you release using a barrel release).
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1. Primary bridles don't melt or abrade when they run through aluminum tow rings.
2. NOTHING melts or abrades if you've got enough in the way of brains to put a thimble in the bottom eye of the primary bridle.
3. Things are a lot less likely to wrap if you've got enough in the way of brains to put a thimble in the bottom eye of the primary bridle.
4. Again you're telling people that it's OK to release from the bottom first.
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
10. Hang Gliding Aerotow Ratings
-B. Aero Vehicle Requirements
06. A release must be placed at the hang glider end of the tow line within easy reach of the pilot. This release shall be operational with zero tow line force up to twice the rated breaking strength of the weak link.
1. How does that piece of shit comply with that regulation when you use the single loop of 130 pound Greenspot you mandate for everybody else?
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15716
weak links
Davis Straub - 2009/04/26 22:15:56 UTC
Yup, at least 175 pounds- single loop of Cortland Greenspot 130 pounds test.
That was one end of the loop in a barrel release where the edges are a bit sharper than where I normally connect the weaklink loop with cloth loops at both ends.
I was jumping a bit so it is more than 175 pounds. Maybe 200+.
2. Using your carefully controlled scientific testing you've declared it to be AT LEAST 175. So - using a commonly accepted allowable maximum of a 25 pound pull - this crap locks up at 155. At 175 it takes 28. You think you can find that thing and pull 28 while the shit's hitting the fan?
http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks
Davis Straub - 2005/02/07
For a couple of years I have flown with a doubled weaklink because, flying with a rigid wing glider, I have found that there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weaklink break.
3. Let's be real generous - based on "at least 175 pounds" for a single and call a double 250. Now you're pulling over 40.
4. Plug it into the regulation - 80. Your release fails at less than a third of the regulation.
So to summarize...
- If you connect it to your tow loops it won't open.
- It's small, easily stored, aerodynamic, thin, gets out of your way right away, is easily stored, creates less drag if you don't put it away, thin, gets out of your way right away, is easily stored, and creates less drag if you don't put it away.
- It's much stronger than your weaklink if you change it about once a year after about fifty tows and Davis has never had one break, is much stronger than your weaklink if you change it about once a year after about fifty tows, and doesn't melt when it runs through the loop at the end of the line if you release from the bottom first.
- You really only need one of them 'cause you put the weak link at the other end of the bridle and it'll serve as a second release.
- It's so good you can omit the primary altogether and just release the bottom 'cause again - even if something wraps - the weak link on the keel will serve as a second release.
- You can use it with - or without - other crappy equipment 'cause - what the hell - your chances of survival pretty much suck at this point anyway.
Anything else you need to know? Did I mention that it's small, easily stored, aerodynamic if you can't store it during flight, thin, gets out of your way right away, is easily stored, creates less drag if you don't put it away, and is much stronger than your weaklink?
Be sure to check out a review of the latest and greatest in US two point technology from Lockout Mountain Flight Park at:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post41.html#p41