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Tow Line Failure
jgilp
Dangerous situation on a rigid!
- But not really a big fuckin' deal on a flex.
- DANGEROUS? How? The tow line failed and thus very clearly provided protection from an excessive angle of attack for that form of towing.
Reidar Berntsen
Yes. Thats true. I was lucky.
Oh. So SKILL had nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter whether you've been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who or are just a weekender muppet. All you can do is stuff the bar...
09-00628
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1517/24907340511_e0696ea696_o.png
...and hope you're high enough to recover and don't whip inconvenience severely enough to tumble. Thanks for clarifying that. I'd always been under the impression that a lot of skill was involved in towing emergencies and the real high time guys could safely handle a lot more than we muppets.
ParagliderCollapse
Beautiful glider - recovered quickly from a dangerous attitude.
- Dangerous attitude? How is that possible? He came off tow...
06-00601
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1559/24907345841_d1522e0549_o.png
...well before weak link tension.
- So if the glider had been a little less beautiful and/or the attitude had been a little more dangerous...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
...it might not have recovered quite as quickly?
But what happened to Zack Marzec three years and a dozen days ago was and remains to this day...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
William Olive - 2013/02/27 20:55:06 UTC
Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.
We probably never will know.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC
Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.
Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.
...a total unfathomable mystery.
- I guess it's OK to call this is dangerous situation 'cause it was precipitated by a towline failure rather than a weak link success or some asshole on a Dragonfly fixing whatever was going on back there by giving the glider the rope.
Go fuck yourself, PC.
Nice landing form too.
Yeah, everybody has nice landing form...
21-01705
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1502/25000599195_3842862a87_o.png
...in a strong smooth headwind.
What harness are you using that enables you to get so upright?
One of those nice framed pods we all use that prevents us from balling up under the nose...
12-00813
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1533/24705130770_0c5cf1b3de_o.png
...after the weak link has broken at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation.
Reidar Berntsen
The harness is an Aros Myth.
And the Infallible and Standard Aerotow Weak Links are Hewett and Industry myths.
It is a bit more flexible and upright in launc & landings
- Are you upright when you're...
01-00000
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...launching?
- Do you NEED to be upright when you're...
33-10226
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...landing?
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26854
Skids versus wheels
Andrew Stakhov - 2012/08/11 13:52:35 UTC
So I just came back from flying in Austria (awesome place btw). Stark difference I noticed is a large chunk of pilots choose to fly with skids instead of wheels. Conversations I had with pilots they say they actually work better in certain situations as they don't get plugged up like smaller wheels. Even larger heavier Atosses were all flying with skids. I was curious why they consistently chose to land on skids on those expensive machines and they were saying that it's just not worth the risk of a mistimed flare or wing hitting the ground... And those are all carbon frames etc.
- But not quite flexible enough to ball up under the nose after the weak link has broken at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation.
15-00921
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1461/24882605932_14a37e9798_o.png
Jimbo S
I practiced forced weak-link breakage so would be prepared for it
I practiced pro towing in a short clinic with Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt so's I could get pulled up as safely as I could with a three point bridle.
Reidar Berntsen
Have had many weak link breaks and also release handle mishaps over the years.
Good, Reidar. We can use all the people we can get to demonstrate that if we keep doing the same things over and over we keep getting the same results.
Both solo and tandem.
Take many...
KSNV-CNN-1-1916
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png
...people of varying ages up with you?
Mostly benign an harmless because climb angle was shallow.
That's what using an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less does for ya. Keep up the great work.
This case was extreme due to the windshear.
Bullshit.
Reidar Berntsen
I have experienced quite a few weak link breaks and all of them have been uneventful and easy to fly out of.
Mere inconveniences with a huge increase in safety margin. Just can't beat Infallible Weak Links for lockout prevention.
Especially with the tandem.
- Any thoughts on why Hang Glide Chicago 2005/09/03 was as eventful for Arlan Birkett and Jeremiah Thompson as it was?
- So tell us about all the times your ass was saved by the focal point of your safe towing system. Maybe post a few testimonials from your grateful passengers as well.
This rigid wing incident was pretty rare...
Just like unhooked launches for all the assholes who refuse to ever do hook-in checks.
...due to the steep climb angle due to the altitude wind increase and turning block anchor coming loose from the ground.
Here are your climb angles:
02-00100 - no more than two seconds after coming off the cart:
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1706/24370043764_2fb9e95f66_o.png
03-00527 - the last frame you had tension during your wind shear blast:
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1521/24907352841_a25c1830ab_o.png
11-00724 - 1.87 seconds into your inconvenience stall:
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1676/24705133060_4ed81af060_o.png
- Bullshit.
- Tell us how LOSING tension INCREASES climb angle.
- So then why did you title the video "Tow Line Failure" when it was a Tow SYSTEM Failure?
- So, obviously, if an incident is pretty rare, we don't need to do anything to modify our procedures and equipment to handle worst case scenarios - like you and a passenger getting gusted or thermal blasted up just off the cart and having a totally predictable Infallible Weak Link increase in the safety of the towing operation.
Steve RX4
In Australia we use radio communications between driver and pilot - not leg waving.
- Is there anything WRONG with...
25-02601
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1656/24907292751_7b92cab3ef_o.png
...the leg waving? Can you cite an incident in which that means of communication failed?
- Aussie hang gliding is even stupider than US hang gliding.
And the tow vehicle is fitted with a tow gauge - to indicate line tension - so the driver can see any line tension increase from eg wind, thermals.
And high line tension is always a BAD thing. Leads to lockouts.
These mean less incidents.
An incident like a weak link success? Isn't a weak link success actually the prevention of an incident? An increase in the safety of the towing operation at the cost of a bit of inconvenience?
Reidar Berntsen
With turning block the driver monitors the launch. Rest is force gage and legs. I have used radio and its only working in case voice activated bcs if u get too much tow pressure...
Asshole.
...the last thing u want to do is to let go of the control bar to operate a radio.
- But in the event of a low level lockout the FIRST thing you wanna do is to let go of the control bar to operate...
27-03624
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1665/24882532822_d23304c0ea_o.png
...your easily reachable release. But you don't ever experience lockouts 'cause you use Infallible Weak Links which very clearly provide protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns and the like for that form of towing.
- Oh. So you're into the Kelly Harrison flavor of...
44-05216
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8842/18582058876_ec9f5ee42b_o.png
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png
...radio configuration. It would be a total waste of time to wire the radio for a helmet...
05-065603
...headset and finger mounted...
10-082203
...PTT switch.
Another thing is that in one day we can have up to 100 tows...
Twenty percent of what Rodie's hugely statistically significant operation had in five years.
...and switching radios, someone fly away in thermals etc the radios are then all over the place.
Much like helmets and parachutes?
With about 1000 tows on this winch in one year...
Twice what Rodie did in five.
...then radio has been only for special cases, students, and the one way.
Good thing you can predict what flights are gonna be special cases.
jgilp
By the way, which glider is it?
Mario Campanella
Is a Flight Design Axxess+. This is the last rigid wing that Flight Design produced. Notice that it has no tails.
So a Marzec level whip inconvenience wouldn't be particularly great idea on this bird either?
Reidar Berntsen
It is the Axxess designed by Felix Ruhle, the Atos designer. It is a Cadillac of the air. Very nice in the air but heavy on the ground.
Mario Campanella
No, Reider this beautiful glider was not designed by Felix. This was the direct competitor of the early Atoses. It was a development of the Ghostbuster and I am proud to say that I took a large part in creating this bird
It makes me very happy to see you having fun with it.
15-00921
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1461/24882605932_14a37e9798_o.png
Of course even better to see how good and safe it still is after so many years!
And very safely towed.
Reidar Berntsen
Aha... I did not know. I belive testing of the wing in its design phase was stability forces on a truck etc ? Seems like u guys and DHV knew what U were doing. Very nice glider and still today the performance is awesome. The min sink is out of this world. On the flight after the line break I towed to 540 meter and altitude windspeed made me almost standstill.
I thought the tension loss inconvenience on the previous flight...
09-00628
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1517/24907340511_e0696ea696_o.png
...did that pretty well.
Searching back and forth I found a place were the wind had made a small standing wave probably from bouncing on the inversion or terrain below. The Axxess hang up there on that tiny tiny lift and no other gliders towing up had a chance to follow. Its a weak lift monster. Flying electric the kilowatts needed to sustain altitude is 70% of a WW U2 and 40% of my tandem F3 when flown solo.
Beatiful creation
Mario Campanella
This is so nice to read! Of course the Axxess was certified with all the correct stability margins. Yes, this is what we had in mind at the time, a glider with fantastic sinking, handling and landing qualities. In its times both Ghosbuster and the Axxess where unbeatable in thermals. I also have an Axxess but it is not a + model. Therefore, it has a conventional flap system.
So what do you assholes specify for a weak link and recommend for a release system for this bird? No, wait. You designed it for foot launch free flight only and never intended it to be towed, right?
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I can see a lot of thought went into the systems and there is always room to "build a better mousetrap".
