Kite Strings

Now POSITIVE I had Scott Buxton and Scott Buckner's IDs reversed - Brian caught it - as a consequence of getting locked into several false assumptions. And I have a real mess to clean up. And I have to try to clean it up without mangling the historical record. First step, will redo the relevant section of the previous post right this time...

Tad Eareckson - 2016/10/22 17:38:56 UTC

Tad Eareckson - 2016/10/21 00:02:46 UTC

...two days shy of five months later; same payout rig, spotter...

Wrong.

RIGHT. Godammit, had it right the first time. But then got derailed by:

18-13014
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That looked (and STILL looks) to me like it's being poised by the port guy in the truckbed. But it's not. As Brian pointed out, in this still:

22-15809
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5331/30142993780_2ee53088f5_o.png


full resolution (URL), zoomed in, you can see that starboard/hat guy is holding the razor-sharp cutting tool. And that makes him Scott - in accordance with Bob's post on the flight/video. Also makes port guy Sean Buckner - same battle station both flights.

This hat guy:

002-00415
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094-23002
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whom I was ASSUMING was this:

02-00921
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8652/30143001170_e709716f74_o.png


hat guy I'd thought was Sean but who's actually Scott can't be Scott hat guy 'cause Scott wasn't there Last Flight Day. He's just unidentified guy so far.

Also didn't think that port truckbed guy could possibly be Sean because he's so totally fuckin' clueless. Looked like the driver Kelly Harrison met in the parking lot half an hour before. And him being the fucking owner/operator is NOT terribly consistent with:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1157
Accident information please.

Warren Narron - 2013/02/13 02:19:21 UTC

Ok, I'm walking back my previous knee jerk comment. I regret and am sorry for pointing fingers of blame as it's now come out that these were build partners of a new system and the winch man wasn't any more experienced than Bob. I was reading into the story that Bob was getting instruction from an established operator.

Seeing this cluelessness as totally inexcusable now. Major sea change.

So now let's redo the field guide...

Rig Owner/Operator = Port Spotter One = Port Spotter Two = Chief Gauge Monitor = Pilot In Command - Tow Vehicle = Pilot In Command - Flight from this point:

017-04413
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7397/13999525606_15bb50b143_o.png


at the latest on = PGseanB = Sean Buckner

Sean Buckner - 87496 - P4 - 2011/04/15 - Carlos Madureira - FL ST TFL TST CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR XC - Exp: 2015/09/30

04-02218 - (here with as good as we have of Bob Buxton (and Scott Buxton's shadow behind Sean Buckner's shadow))
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5656/30143000110_1d281ea8ff_o.png

Robert Buxton - 12683 - H4 - 1981/10/16 - Russell Gelfan - FL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - Exp: 2016/10/31

06-04323
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001-00000
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064-05105
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I Soar AZ = K9BUX = Scott Buxton

Scott Buxton - 58086 - H3 - 2004/01/22 - Galen Jarrell - FL AWCL RLF TUR XC - Exp: 2016/09/30

02-00921
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Sean Buckner, Scott Buxton, Bob Buxton - left to right:

22-15809
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Driver 2 (and, right to left, Sean Buckner and (what's left of) Bob Buxton):

092-10326
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There. Now to go back to the point of the wrong turn and repair the damage.
---
Edit - 2016/10/23 04:50:00 UTC

Nah. Reviewed all the posts since referencing the 2012/05/05 flight video and everything's now OK - with the advisory and corrections in these last two posts.
---
Edit - 2016/10/23 16:25:00 UTC

Additional important information on the identifiable players. Give it a skim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZSih0-V6lk
Towin

Sean Buckner - 2011/05/03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZSih0-V6lk


Just as long as you're a hundred foot high... You'll be OK if you dive in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1qv21xYmy8
Auto rewind for Tow Rig...mp4

Sean Buckner - 2011/09/26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1qv21xYmy8


I had an Idea, and 6 hours later... It works... Flawlessly..Sence I fired the dirver and moved all ops into the truck, I figured I needed to be able to rewind the line from inside the truck as well... Now.. all I need to have fun is a pilot, no more BS of large crowds.

TheWoodart

That is Awsome Sean! OK I have to admit it, I cannot do it as good as You!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56N3iHoOl2o
SlingMachine

Sean Buckner - 2012/02/27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56N3iHoOl2o


SlingMachine.com - Infinite, Immediate, and Precise control of tow tensions. - SAFE!!!

SlingMachine with its versitilty can serve hang gliders and paragliders.
Its Infinate, Immediate, and Precise control of line tension makes it the safest payout winch on the market.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWh3px6ExSg
Sling Machine HG Setup.mp4

Sean Buckner - 2012/04/24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWh3px6ExSg


The Setup for Hang Gliders... Prototype....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZSih0-V6lk
Towin

Sean Buckner - 2011/05/03

Just as long as you're a hundred foot high... You'll be OK if you dive in.

So maybe it would be a good idea to be extra careful while the glider's getting that first hundred feet under it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1qv21xYmy8
Auto rewind for Tow Rig...mp4

Sean Buckner - 2011/09/26

I had an Idea, and 6 hours later... It works... Flawlessly..Sence I fired the dirver and moved all ops into the truck, I figured I needed to be able to rewind the line from inside the truck as well... Now.. all I need to have fun is a pilot, no more BS of large crowds.

Got a mirror or a TV camera so's the dirver can monitor what's going on behind him and make adjustments from where he's sitting accordingly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56N3iHoOl2o
SlingMachine

Sean Buckner - 2012/02/27

SlingMachine.com - Infinite, Immediate, and Precise control of tow tensions. - SAFE!!!

SlingMachine with its versitilty can serve hang gliders and paragliders.
Its Infinate, Immediate, and Precise control of line tension makes it the safest payout winch on the market.

Ya know, Sean... Hang gliders get aerotowed all the fuckin' time and aerotowing has total shit in the way of tension control. At the most critical phase, takeoff, you got pretty much two settings - off and full power. And the latter is a function of the tug and its engine. And generally speaking the more power the better. And it's gonna be in one direction. And it's so safe that people go up on the crappiest equipment imaginable and still shit only happens on the rarest of occasions.

If you wanna do safety you really need to look at other issues - the ones that actually crash and kill gliders on the rarest of occasions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWh3px6ExSg
Sling Machine HG Setup.mp4

Sean Buckner - 2012/04/24

The Setup for Hang Gliders... Prototype....

Beautifully engineered nose release, Sean. But nobody ever got scratched 'cause his nose release wouldn't work or he couldn't afford to make the easy reach to the actuator.

Everything you're showing us is beautifully engineered and built. But THIS:

022-04610
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3735/13746338404_0b90a8007d_o.png
029-04917

is the only thing you and your rig are ever gonna be really remembered for. Problem was you were overly obsessed with your beautiful hydraulics; gauges; infinite, immediate, precise control over line tension and couldn't be bothered with anything that actually mattered. You couldn't be bothered to even look into the existing technology that gave the guy on the glider any control over his situation, to be able to function as any more than a dope on the end of your rope.

Time machine...
- Tie one end of a five thousand foot length of Spectra to your trailer hitch and lay it out on West Patterson Road.
- Hook Bob up with a Koch two stage at the other end.
- Launch assistant fires a shotgun when Bob's ready.
- Accelerate to thirty miles per hour and keep it there until you run outta road.

He's gonna be fine.

As promised...

http://vimeo.com/130790687
Bad Turbulence

Thomas - 2015/06/15 16:38 UTC

http://vimeo.com/130790687


Atos VR
14.06.2015. Germany, Eifel-Area at Winds of 28-35 km/h and lots of Thermals and Turbulences.
I was surprised by the strength of the Turbulences and lost control for a moment.

01-01200
- 01 - chronological order
- 12 - seconds
- 00 - frame (25 fps)

01-01200
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Note the continuous hold-down line (bungee)...

02-01207
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Not a problem unless you're stupid but nevertheless a risk factor that should be eliminated.

03-01301
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04-01815
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05-02122
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06-02204
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07-02304
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08-02310
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Going a bit nuts with the Tad-O-Link, aren't we?

09-02407
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Overbuilt:

http://www.drachenfliegenlernen.de/images/kochklinke.jpg


You need a heavy line to engage the pin(s) in order to keep things in position. Maybe there's no better way to implement this concept - which is only worth looking at for two stage - but this concept is second best / obsolete anyway. You can do the job better, cheaper, cleaner, lighter, safer with bite controlled actuation...

08-04118
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14-04810
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24-11406
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...and such systems are up and flying.

10-02503
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No dedicated weak link on this end of the towline. Safe towing system with no focal point.

11-02623
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12-03018
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Pro toad - but on the Atos we're not pulled in ridiculously.

13-03405
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14-04619
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19-12919
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And now we're gonna get pulled right off the control bar...

20-12922
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21-13001
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22-13004
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And watch the velcroed-on vario pivoting around on the downtube...

23-13008
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Now where have we seen something like that before? (Repeatedly.)

24-13013
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Hey Pro Toad... If you'd used a bridle that split the tow tension evenly between you and your glider - such that you'd only be feeling half - do you think you'd have still been pulled off the control bar?

25-13018
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And...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/24 11:48:03 UTC

Don't let the tug pull you through the control frame (this is the same as you pulling in).

Any thoughts on why your glider didn't pitch down when the towline pulled you off the bar and weight shifted you forward? No? Ryan?

OK, next thirteen frames, 25 fps... Starting with both hands flying the glider full grip, release actuation, back to full grip:

26-13024
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27-13100
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28-13101
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29-13102
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30-13103
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5780/30205440640_2013364467_o.png


Hefty tension. Now you see the towline:

31-13104
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Now it's gone:

32-13105
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without a trace.

33-13106
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34-13107
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5699/30205439280_2b2a5134ff_o.png

35-13108
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5737/30205439000_d44f64b41b_o.png

36-13109
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37-13110
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38-13111
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5708/30205437950_2a55861b3c_o.png


And as of the above frame we're back to both hands, full grip, after no detectable control wobble. One point, full tension, 0.48 seconds off time max. Not bad. Somebody find me something else reachable that's in the same ballpark.

39-13120
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Oops...

44-15401
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Oh well, it wasn't a Quallaby release lever.

48-15609
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And a couple more location shots...

49-21100
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50-21624
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Hinterweiler
50°14'44.34" N 6°45'25.24" E

Nice find, Jan.

P.S. There's a village of Dockweiler 1.14 miles to the ENE of launch position.

Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post9749.html#p9749

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video

Scott Buxton - 2013/02/10 12:41:40 UTC

The guy in the back is operating the tow rig.They should of had a guy in the back of truck with a hook knife and his only job would of been cut the line if things go bad. I wasn't there or I would of been that guy. Not sure why they didn't have a guy in the back with hook knife.

The guy in the back is operating the tow rig.They should of had a guy in the back of truck with a hook knife and his only job would of been cut the line if things go bad.

- Oh. Chopping brake pressure to zero in response to a lockout doesn't fall within the compass of operating the tow rig - while another guy, in the truck, supplies the power. To cut tow tension we need another dedicated cook. Three assholes on the front end to get one guy on a seventy pound glider safely airborne. Gotta love the simplicity of this sport. Beats the crap outta sailplaning.

Whereas in aerotowing we've got one guy flying his own plane while monitoring the glider in the mirror with one hand controlling the ailerons, elevator, and dump lever and the other hand free to do what the fuck ever.

Note that for a guy sitting in the back of the truck "operating the tow rig", monitoring the glider, and chopping tension once every thirty years when necessary is WAY too fuckin' much to ask. But its never the least problem for a low locked out glider to fight the lockout, make the easy reach to his Industry Standard release, and fly off to go upright for a perfect stunt landing somewhere near the old Frisbee in the middle of the LZ.

Also note that we need a guy on a glider, in the driver's seat, on the hydraulic gauges and controls, and with a hook knife in the operation 'cause even with four assholes involved we don't have the collective competence to preflight the fuckin' glider and connection and not launch into a dust devil in the first hundred yards.

If four assholes think it's perfectly OK for one of them to go up with an easily reachable placebo release I don't know what other deadly issues you're expecting them to catch.

- How 'bout instead of a guy in the back of the truck with a hook knife whose only job is cut the line if things go bad we have a guy in the back of the truck with a checklist whose only job is to make sure the fuckin' bridle is routed UNDER the bar. Wouldn't that have been a fifty times better/safer option in this particular case?

- Is it necessarily a great idea for some assholes in the back of the truck with a hook knife to...

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

...cut the line if things go "bad"? Like the glider suddenly standing on its tail in response to a dust devil? Well, it's Arizona. You guys probably don't have...

07-00927
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08-01118
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09-03624
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...dust devils out there. Forget I mentioned it.

- Operating the tow rig doesn't include precisely adjusting tension in accordance with what the glider's doing? The tow rig operator just ensures that the hydraulic pressure remains precisely at the agreed upon setting throughout the tow? Well done, Tow Rig Operator. Looks like you maintained precise smooth tension from launch all the way to until a bit after impact.

- Here's a truck tow launch with no one in back doing anything...

08-01107
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12-01125
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18-02106
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19-03709
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...that goes just fine. Any thoughts?

- Here's truck tow launch with one guy in the back...

13-1523
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...and the glider goes on its fuckin' ear IMMEDIATELY upon launch.

29-2101
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Compare/Contrast:

018-04422
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But the glider releases himself and flies away:

32-2227
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smelling like a rose. Any thoughts?

- If you've just got one guy available for the back what do you think he should be watching and doing?

- OK, let's go u$hPa and make it mandatory to have some certified asshole in the back. More expensive, fewer flight opportunities, less collective experience in hang gliding culture. Is that making things safer for us?

- OK, u$hPa's now mandating certified assholes for the back of the truck.

Sean Buckner - 87496 - P4 - 2011/04/15 - Carlos Madureira - FL ST TFL TST CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR XC

029-04917
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3735/13746338404_0b90a8007d_o.png


What should we specify for minimum qualifications?

- What if we used that misdirected waste of resources and manpower to configure gliders with Kaluzhin releases?

I wasn't there or I would of been that guy.

You were that guy on 2012/05/05:

22-15809
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17-12810
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Sitting face to face with Sean. And he didn't have any takeaways from what you were doing?

Not sure why they didn't have a guy in the back with hook knife.

- They had a guy in the back - he's in the video making sure the to tension is being precisely regulated. Was there something stopping him from having a hook knife and looking around a bit every now and then?

- Why when you've got a guy in the back operating the tow rig are you even talking about hook knives? An aero tug has a dump lever and if one has ever had - or needed - a hook knife I've never heard about it.
---
Need and had intended to expand on that second point. If Sean had zeroed the brake pressure / freewheeled the spool Bob would've immediately started descending and the interference with the basetube would've immediately been drastically reduced as a consequence of the dump and progressively reduced to zero as a consequence of the tow angle being progressively reduced to zero and below.
---
---
Two reasonably good smoking gun stills depicting the lethally misrouted bridle:

098-23513
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100-23527
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He's compromised the instant he lifts out of the cradles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZSih0-V6lk
Towin

Sean Buckner - 2011/05/03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZSih0-V6lk

01-00020
- 01 - chronological order
- -0 - minutes
- 00 - seconds
- 20 - frame (30 fps)

01-00020
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Paraglider launch dolly?

02-00100
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03-00108
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Those things take off at about walking speed so I don't think there'd be any point.

04-00118
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05-00812
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Oh look.

06-00911
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07-00927
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Vertically moving air.

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Doesn't exist in Hewett's Skyting Theory, Pagen/Bryden's Towing Aloft. Just write it off as a figment of your imagination.

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So I guess at this stage we're clamping the rig to the trailer hitch and hopping out of the bed to rewind.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1qv21xYmy8
Auto rewind for Tow Rig...mp4

Sean Buckner - 2011/09/26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1qv21xYmy8


I had an Idea, and 6 hours later... It works... Flawlessly..Sence I fired the dirver and moved all ops into the truck, I figured I needed to be able to rewind the line from inside the truck as well... Now.. all I need to have fun is a pilot, no more BS of large crowds.

Maybe someone to watch the pilot.

TheWoodart

That is Awsome Sean! OK I have to admit it, I cannot do it as good as You!

Sticking to that statement?

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Total Rube Goldberg.

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Way too many parts.

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Especially pulleys.

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The more parts the higher the probability of failure.

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Get Paul Hurless to design something for you.

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He'll be able to do it with just three parts and it'll work a lot better.

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And again engaged by hand.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56N3iHoOl2o
SlingMachine

Sean Buckner - 2012/02/27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56N3iHoOl2o


SlingMachine with its versitilty can serve hang gliders and paragliders.
Its Infinate, Immediate, and Precise control of line tension makes it the safest payout winch on the market.

- Wills Wing HPAT 158, hook in at 230. Pike County Airport, 661 feet, wind - west at ten, temperature - 75, relative humidity - 80 percent. What precise tension should I use. And can Karen Carra flying a baby Falcon at two hundred pounds use the same precise tension flying with you guys at West Patterson Road year round?

- Tell me how:

-- you have precise control of line tension. You're using a large diameter, short width, no level-wind spool. That means that the tension is increasing at a fast clip as the line pays out. All you can do is precisely control and monitor is brake hydraulic pressure and make educated guesses as to what the tension is.

-- precise control of line tension could possibly matter? Give me a scenario in which you'd benefit from having a precise number. When we fly these things in situations in which shit really matters we're not staring at airspeed indicators and altimeters. We're doing it by feel based upon what we're seeing.

- Give me some examples of unsafe, dangerous payout winches. Cite some incidents in which they've been factors.

- Reminds me a lot of super safe precision one-size-fits-all aerotow weak links - 'specially the ones tied to break extra consistently in accordance with one's expectations.

- Oh well, at least you called it "tension". That gives you a leg up on the FAA, Pagen/Bryden, eighty percent of the assholes towing hang gliders.

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Amputee Will Alms Launching

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Foot Launching Hang Gliders - Zero Wind

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Oh. So it's maybe a good idea to stop watching the gauges and check to see what the glider's doing every now and then.

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So don't worry about the parts that depend on the actions of the three humans involved and put the glider up on whatever easily reachable placebo release you feel like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWh3px6ExSg
Sling Machine HG Setup.mp4

Sean Buckner - 2012/04/24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWh3px6ExSg


The Setup for Hang Gliders... Prototype....

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Like the way you've got the towline routed UNDER the control bar.

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Might have been a good idea to review the minute and seven second clip and reshoot it withOUT the fingers in the frame.

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Cool!

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You can use stored energy to blow the nose release with both hands on the control bar in control position! Sure wish I'd thought of...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306300488/


...doing something like that for MY system.

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Did you catch the way he's got the towline routed UNDER your basetube, Bob?

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Whoa!

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STRAIGHT pin for your release mechanism.

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You should talk to Bobby Bailey. He prefers a bent pin for this application on a glider release and he's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit. And it's gotta be a talk 'cause he's never written anything anywhere since third grade and it's gotta be Bobby 'cause he's never been able to mentor anyone to bring him up to anything beyond a tiny fraction of his fucking genius level.

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Are you sure you've got enough mechanical steel and hydraulic muscle built into that system to be able to safely and reliably hold the nose down to trim attitude and release it when you get up to 35 mph airspeed?

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http://azhpa.org/forums/topic/towing-in-rainbow-valley/
Towing in Rainbow Valley

Bob Buxton - 2012/05/07 05:32

This last Saturday (5/5/12)...

Eleven days after Sean posted the above video.

...I went out to Sean Buckner's towing operation, my son Scott came along for moral support, to do a test flight/tow on his newly hang glider modified platform towing system.
...
I moved my left hand toward the pneumatic release valve and opened it with very little effort.

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Compare/Contrast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYt9p9ihZX8


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The nose release actuator is TOTAL JUNK compared to Sean's...

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...elegant solution - BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. It's a TOTALLY FAKE safety issue. Put our Kaluzhin release guy up on the placebo crap that Bob's using and will shortly get him mostly killed, run him on that rig a million cycles next to Sean's rig and there will be zero relevant incidents on either. There is no scenario in which Sean's actuation system imparts an advantage.

Kaluzhin goes from nose popped to full grip in about 0.17 seconds when he's not in any kind of rush, he's got his forearm over grip position the entire interval, and the glider's remaining solidly planted in the brackets until he starts telling it to start going up.

People who put energy into these "safe" pilot actuated nose release systems before having properly dealt with the glider release issue are dickheads. Jim Gaar and treasured Kite Strings member Garrett...
http://www.kitestrings.org/topic80.html
...Speeter come to immediate mind. It's like treating for sunburn the surfer who's just had an arm taken off by a Bull Shark - and isn't actually sunburned anyway.

There's an argument to be made that if Bob had had to use Kaluzhin's nose release actuator the associated increase in anxiety MIGHT have caused him to think a bit more about just how ready to go he really was. If we've got a time machine we do it 'cause the results couldn't have been any worse.

Another thought...

Bob probably wouldn't have launched with the bridle misrouted using the Kaluzhin 'cause the last two things one does before positioning one's hands on the control bar are to route the cable and bite the actuator. That would've probably been sufficient for a tipoff.

P.S. And ain't it great to see just how thoroughly Sean, Scott, the rest of Bob's family, the Arizona flyers have persued discussion of this incident / massively unnecessary tragedy. (Scott must've run out of thoroughness after completion of the bottom end of his safe towing system.
---
P.P.S. - 2016/10/27 23:55:00 UTC

As I was preparing this post I realized I needed more frames of the glider lifting off. Stills:
09-01111 - 10-01115 - 11-01120
amended to the original collection of 33. Note that with the first of those I accidentally caught a nice shot of the payout system. Hadn't been looking for that detail on either pass and just noticed as I was reviewing the post.