2011/10/28 Darley Moor Airfield crash

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo

Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

ND's onto it.

Then we should probably put -nd- in charge of everything now that you're no longer around to fill the position.

No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation...

Nah, I LOVE waiting for accident investigations. The only thing I love more than waiting for the investigation is waiting for the investigations' REPORTS.

And for the first couple decades we didn't have ACCIDENT INVESTIGATIONS. We had INCIDENT REPORTS. And before the commercial interests started majorly ramping up we had reasonably good incident reports from recreational flying. If there were an incident in mid May Doug Hildreth would usually have it in the magazine that was mailed out at the end of June. And he'd do analysis to find out where we were having the most serious problems and make recommendations regarding SOPs and training that everyone would ignore.

And then dregs epitomized by the likes of you and Ryan got momentum and turned everything totally upside down.

Whenever somebody slightly bends a downtube due to an imperfectly timed landing flare in the primary there are three dozen experts on exactly what went wrong volunteering their analyses within the first ninety seconds. And the more violent the impact the more fucking obvious it becomes regarding the issues. And if that isn't the case then none of us have any business anywhere near the sport.

An INVESTIGATION *ISN'T* a REPORT. The people involved and/or witnessing REPORT their actions, observations. And if they're honest, accurate, consistent with each other and the evidence we accept them. That was totally the case with the devastating mostly fatal 2005/07/07 John Woiwode incident.

You INVESTIGATE an incident when somebody gets too splattered to report himself and either:
- there are no competent witnesses in useful positions
- involved and responsible parties are giving accounts which smell funny and/or are taking the Fifth

We obviously have the latter case here.

Mark Frutiger posted while still traumatized by what had happened behind him the previous afternoon and the only motherfuckers who felt revisions were warranted were the ones who were legally vulnerable as consequences of standardizing total shit as towing equipment and configurations. And to call what Paul posted - which is the most we're ever gonna get - five days (yes, days, I'm not kidding) plus a little over four hours after impact an INVESTIGATION?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07 23:47:58 UTC

A few days ago I promised that I would write a more complete accident report regarding the tragic hang gliding accident we recently had at Quest Air resulting in the death of our good friend, Zach Marzec. I do want to warn you in advance that there will be no great revelations from what you already know.

He doesn't even make any pretense of doing that.

...they want to know "NOW DAMNIT!"...

What a bunch of assholes. Wanting to know something of actual substance in our sport when we could be rereading:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

and learning how to perfect our flare timing.

...and there's always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.

Quote one. Or, failing that (which you will), present a scenario in which a legitimate participant in the sport would want to know one element of a catastrophic incident that wouldn't work towards the advantage of all other legitimate participants?

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png


http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49837
Jim Rooney tandem paraglider incident in New Zealand

Jim Rooney - 2016/10/01 05:55:48 UTC

Up from surgery... Plates on L2 while it heals, will come out after. Feeling good.
I won't comment on my crash just yet. Maybe after the CAA investigation.

That was over four years ago. (I forgot to celebrate on the second to last day of last month.) Yeah, we wanna know why the most gifted and keenly intellectual pilot in the history of foot-launch aviation crashed a tandem paraglider on the slope in stable routine tourist conditions. We wanna know how to properly conduct and protect ourselves four years ago. We've waited long enough for the investigation.

We only had to wait six and a half weeks for Jean Lake which is the single most fucked up double fatal in the world history of this sport. What did you hafta do to fuck things up over three dozen times and counting that bad? Or are you just that much more proficient at obstructing investigations than the Vegas crowd? (And we know that what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas so those guys must be pretty good.)

And it's always the same.

Yeah, you've been deeply involved in this game for so long. You've heard it all a hundred times over. Pity there's virtually no trace of your legacy anywhere in the way we're doing things now.

The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.

Lemme fast forward two posts in this discussion for ya 'cause you didn't stick around beyond that single post...

Doug Doerfler - 2012/05/10 14:04:03 UTC

I'm going to come right out and say it...who ever is responsible for setting this girl up should be in jail

A 134 lb pilot, first solo aerotow, behind a trike, on a Falcon 195...who the hell would be able to control that

People have gone to prison for decades for way way less than this. And that's coming from one of your fellow assholes. Jon Orders went to prison for making the same mistake you did even though he should've been as totally blameless as you told us you were.

We have a system in place.

We? So you're way up in the running of BHPA and UK aviation as well as in u$hPa and the FAA? How come I've never seen your name on a list of directors, committee members; an incident report (as an author - no points for perpetrator); magazine article?

It works.

Yep... Just like:

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 06:25:28 UTC

Anyway...
Weaklink material... exactly what Davis said.

It's no mystery.
It's only a mystery why people choose to reinvent the wheel when we've got a proven system that works.

'Cept Davis no longer says exactly what Davis said. And that's 'cause it wasn't actually working all that well.

Let it work.

We did. And it got someone who didn't hate your guts splattered.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

Just a few gaping hidden holes that will need to be addressed a two or three years down the road a respectful period after somebody else gets killed. If something needs to be addressed and you don't have a crystal ball it needs to addressed immediately - like one of Rafi Lavin's sidewires. That could've been easily done in a matter of five or ten seconds a minute before launch but it wasn't.

RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).

Aren't you gonna thank anybody for the Air Accidents Investigation Branch Field Investigation report which told us they put her up on a trainer whose min recommended hook-in weight was fifty pounds over her max estimated hook-in weight and Judy Heden for fixing whatever was going on back there by giving her the rope?

Please take a deep breath. And wait.

We did. We took deep breaths and waited for the investigation report. Now we're waiting for a comment from you on the competence and responsibility of the operation that set her up for a head first plummet to the pavement from an unspecified altitude. But we won't be holding our breath 'cause we know from long experience that you'll never whisper a word of criticism regarding anything perceived by anyone as establishment - regardless of any degree of egregiousness. Jean Lake or Nancy Tachibana as other examples.

Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)

- Which is another way of saying you're perfectly OK watching more needless fatalities while investigation teams spend years getting everything correct and completely detailed down to the last punctuation mark. And perish the thought anyone might share any preliminary findings before honoring us with the final masterpiece.

- So how many of these investigations have you participated in? Fifteen? Twenty? Or failing that what highly privileged information source are you accessing that we muppets can't?

The sky is not falling.

No, but for Lois the taxiway sure was coming up pretty fast.

And it's really sad that the sport is such total cesspool that to this day none of the mainstreamers will call you for what you were and are.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo

Sam Kellner - 2012/03/15 12:40:54 UTC

Polite request? More like, who's to blame.

Besides the dead sixteen year old girl trying to successfully complete an AT solo for the first time? Nothing's coming to mind.

Was this pilot "killed", like RR says?

Of course not. She still had a pulse when the chopper dropped her off at Queen's Medical Centre in Nottingham. It was totally a medical malpractice issue.

Was it murder?

No. It would've been murder if Judy Heden HADN'T given her the rope. Just like you're gonna do for Terry Mason...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


...three months plus one day from this post.

Without knowing details, I don't think so.

I'd say the fact that we don't have any details - or anything at all actually - at this point is damn good evidence that it WAS murder.

-nd- - 2012/05/10 13:43:39 UTC

The full report is now released.

- Damn. I somehow managed to miss the preliminary report.

- Or maybe it actually IS the preliminary report. Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years. (Yes, years, I'm not kidding.)

- Did you actually read it? If it had been published on the first of the month you wouldn't have had time to make it halfway through at this point.

- Any comment about there being neither an altitude nor bank angle estimate on the flight of particular interest?

Doug Doerfler - 2012/05/10 14:04:03 UTC

I'm going to come right out and say it...who ever is responsible for setting this girl up should be in jail

- There were a whole shitload of people responsible for setting this girl up on this wing. The report identifies an instructor / launch assistant, a tug pilot, two spotters, a witness with a radio on frequency way the hell upwind. There were other AT pilots watching. And nobody said anything - even after the first aborted effort.

- How 'bout BHPA? Shouldn't they bear some responsibility for anything beyond coming down like a ton of bricks on anyone who dares hooking up on anything behind anything with a Tad-O-Link?

- I don't think they need to be in jail. They're not gonna do a rerun and they hafta live with this the rest of their lives. Wanna put people in jail? Davis, Rodie, Rooney, Sam just from this discussion would be excellent deserving candidates.

A 134 lb pilot, first solo aerotow...

Second. And we don't know how things would've gone if Judy hadn't dumped her. But we DO know the results wouldn't have been any worse. So for a do-over if the other option is to put her up on two G weak links and disable the tug's release until the tug needs it to survive we take that option.

...behind a trike, on a Falcon 195...who the hell would be able to control that

She could have - if they'd ballasted her. She was apparently doing OK on the Tandem at 225 squares. So it wasn't a muscle limitation. And she recovered, flew, landed the 195 just fine after aborting the first effort. But the abort was HER DECISION at the point of HER CHOOSING.

Jim Gaar - 2012/05/10 14:42:32 UTC

I own and fly a Falcon 195. I hook in at 220 pounds and "I" have issues flying that delightful pig around.

That's funny. That's exactly what your Falcon 195 told me about you - minus the "delightful" part of course.

This is one heck of a mess for sure. Heads should roll...

How 'bout at Quest under nine months from now? Nobody's fault but Zack's? Did he come up with the ideas of the easily reachable bent pin release, pro toad bridle, Standard Aerotow Weak Link all by himself? Paul and Lauren both knew. And they didn't stick around in the sport much more than half an hour after that one. Didn't hear much from Trisa after that one either.

Brian McMahon - 2012/05/10 16:33:06 UTC

I found the Falcon 195 to be stiff on roll at a hook-in weight of about 185, I can't imagine what 150 would be like. Would 50 lbs of ballast have been helpful or would that have made weight shifting even more difficult for the woman?

Well if we assume 150 for Judy additional hook-in she was able to handle things fine all by herself at 300.

Airnut - 2012/05/10 19:09:23 UTC

Recently I returned to flying after a long break (flew for 13 years back in the 70's and 80's).

On my first day of ground handling runs (on the beach in 10mph wind), I was using a Moyes Malibu 188. I am almost exactly the same weight as the accident pilot (135 lbs), well below the weight range for a 188. Even ground running, I found the 188 very sluggish and difficult to handle. On the next training day, I had my Malibu 166, and the difference was dramatic (even just ground-running): light, responsive, effortless.

Never having actually flown an over-sized glider, I can only extrapolate from my little experience related here.

She was flying behind a trike tug with a 37 mph minimum tow speed. She was OSCILLATING - OVERcontrolling. We shouldn't be focusing too much on this issue.

When an accident occurs...

...the first thing we need to understand is that it wasn't an accident. If we don't believe that we shouldn't be either flying ourselves or encouraging others to fly.

...analysis usually reveals a train of errors leading up to the event; the usual stacking up of the straws until the camel's back finally breaks.

Pretty much always.

Flying well out of the recommended weight range adds yet another straw.

Yeah, but that's all it is. Maybe two or three straws.

And how carefully are we reading this bullshit incident report? The first thing you should notice is that it's carefully designed to not convey understandings of issues of actual substance.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo

Sam Kellner - 2012/05/10 19:21:39 UTC

Can I change my mind? 195sqft 134lb pilot Aerotowing

Come on guys

Can I change my mind?

Sure Sam. No one with such a low double digits range IQ can be expected to think ahead about which way the winds are likely to start blowing. And nobody really gives a flying fuck about where you pretend to stand on anything anyway.

195sqft 134lb pilot Aerotowing

And such a masterful use of smilies. A three to eight smilie to word ratio for the past. You must've spent hours working on it.

Come on guys

I'm almost angry enough to use a smilie like that myself.

P.S. And please don't trouble yourself to apologize to Ridgerodent - the individual who lit this topic back up after a four month (and nine hour) period of total dormancy.

Jim Gaar - 2012/05/10 20:54:22 UTC

If any pilot flew with 50 pounds of ballast attached to their body and they were within weight specs on the wing it would indeed weight shift "easier" as in less movement resulting in more roll authority.

Wow! I never thought of that before! But doesn't adding weight also increase the complexity of the system and thus actually increase the likelihood of failure? Couldn't such a failure result in her getting even more killed than she was?

If that's what you mean by easier. However landing with that extra weight would be a BITCH!

That too! You'd need even better perfected flare timing. And that's before you start factoring in that additional landing gear weighing approximately 28.5 pounds!

3 - Similar hang glider showing pilot position and bridle arrangement

I shudder to even think about the quality of flare timing you'd need for a brick like that.

And Sam don't forget about, "...behind a trike."

Yeah, I super hate having to land oversized ballasted hang gliders with heavy landing gear behind trikes.

Many very huge mistakes in judgement IMHO.

- Rivaled only by the decision of your parents to engage in sexual intercourse on whatever particular occasion that was - IMHO.

- I'm just wondering how many students they might have killed without anybody finding out about anything. This may just be a tiny tip of an iceberg.

Airnut - 2012/05/10 21:09:22 UTC

And don't forget that in this case, the glider had 35 lbs (I think it was)...

Don't think. Read. 28.5. Granted, the report was padded and formatted such that it would likely take at least a half hour to verify anything... So for an error of six and a half pounds hardly worth the effort.

...of landing gear attached (to the glider, not the pilot), which would have slowed down the glider's roll response even further.

She was oscillating at towing speed. So that shouldn't have been a problem. And she was totally stalled when she was cut loose so nothing mattered from that point on.

Davis Straub - 2012/05/10 22:24:30 UTC

Those wheels are really overkill for a single person glider.

- Like the force with which Jeff Bohl hit the runway at Quest on 2016/09/29?

- Yeah, what fuckin' idiots they were to install overkill landing gear on a high duty cycle operation trainer for a single person with a hook-in weight of up to 275 pounds. This coming from a stupid pin bender...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..

Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.

No stress because I was high.

...incapable of conceiving of...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/10 14:09:22 UTC

I've had no problem releasing my barrel release hundreds of times.

...moderately high load situation scenarios.

The ones from Gregg:

http://ozreport.com/16.063#1
http://ozreport.com/16.072#0

Yeah, let's talk about landing gear for a while now. Maybe also helmets and parachutes.

...are more appropriate.

Should coordinate well with whatever bridles and weak links you're mandating at the moment.

David Williamson - 2012/05/11 00:51:43 UTC

Two Point Bridle

I notice that the report says: "it is common practice to attach one end of the towing bridle to a position on the keel forward of the control bar." Is this correct (I've only ever used a single point chest release)? Doesn't this make a two point bridle dangerous in a lockout, as the last thing you want is an increase in the angle of attack as you release/are released?

I dunno. Talk to Zack Marzec. Don't put it off to much more than eight months though.

I was given the towline by a tug pilot once, when in a lockout with a single point release, and I didn't notice any pitch-up of the glider.

- Nobody does - you moron. Gliders don't pitch UP when you instantaneously chop 130 pounds of straight ahead thrust regardless of what you're using for a bridle. The ANGLE OF ATTACK goes way the fuck up, they STALL and pitch DOWN.

No wait... That's fundamental aeronautical THEORY and...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/05/31 13:27:30 UTC

Wow... this thread is still going?
Hahahahaha... as if this is shocking?

Guys, take all your equations and stuff them. We all know bumbelbees don't fly right?

Any tug pilot will tell you that this is all bunk. Weaklinks don't "protect" you from lockout, but I'll be damned if I listen to someone tell me that they don't break during lockout.

Try to get behind me without a weaklink... try... I will not tow you.

... fundamental aeronautical theory's a total load o' crap as far as hang gliding is concerned.

- I notice a couple things:

-- Your BHPA weak link didn't work when it was supposed to. So tell what that BHPA 100 KG weak link max is supposed to be doing for anybody.

-- You were in a lockout - no argument from anybody about that - and it was the tug who fixed whatever was going on back there. Were you still hoping to be able to recover from your lockout? (Wills Wing tells us it's more difficult to recover from a lockout flying one point.)

- How much altitude did you lose recovering from your lockout with the gifted min 70 meters of correct material trailing. Let's call Lois's separation altitude fifty feet. If you'd been at fifty feet would you have wound up less dead than Lois did?

Was the tandem towing accident on the Northwings glider (some time ago) influenced by using a similar set-up?

No. Some time ago was 2002/08/17 at Fort Langley, the North Wing glider was a Pacific Airwave Double Vision, and the issue was a catastrophic structural failure of the glider that we'll never be able to identify but don't really need to.

Davis Straub - 2012/05/11 02:14:29 UTC

All aerotow tandems that I am familiar with use a V-bridle...

He called it a TWO point bridle. The AAIB report called it a TWO-point bridle. Aren't you gonna set everybody straight and let them know that it's actually a THREE point bridle? Or is the deck not stacked well enough in your favor for you to be able to get away with that crap in this particular situation?

(Footnote... I started this project because I stumbled upon...

The hang glider was attached to the tow line by means of a two-point bridle...

...documentation of the bridle as being two point from a powerful aviation entity that these Davis/Rooney douchebags weren't gonna be inclined to fuck around with. (NAILED IT.)

That's all I was gonna do. Quote one sentence and do a short post in:

http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66
bridles

But then I started looking around in this bullshit document highly engineered to discourage anyone to really start looking around and... Holy SHIT!)

...that goes to a release that is connected to the keel or to the carabiner.

Forgot to spell carabineer wrong this time, Davis. Now let's look for time stamps before and after this one.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 15:03:35 UTC

There is a reason for using these carabineers.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28290
Report about fatal accident at Quest Air Hang Gliding

Davis Straub - 2013/02/11 19:34:27 UTC

Second, a protow would have been much better here as the V-bridle allowed the carabineer to climb up toward the sail and pull the glider down.

I think that's pretty solid evidence that both "three point" and "carabineer" are deliberate. If I were on a jury I'd vote for lethal injection. Aw hell, I'd vote for lethal injection no matter what anyway.

There is also a secondary release at the pilot's shoulder.

No, it's a backup. For when your primary doesn't work.

The same is true for setups like this were a new pilot is flying with wheels (tandem wheels actually) and flying a single surface glider that benefits greatly in reduced bar pressure from having a tow point on the keel as well as from the shoulders.

It's not like you really NEED one to have full pitch control range. You still have the same range but you benefit greatly from the extra tow point with reduced bar pressure.

David Williamson - 2012/05/11 10:48:58 UTC

Bridle connected to the carabiner would be o.k., as far as I can tell, but in this case it was apparently connected to the keel forwards of the hang-point, thus giving a step change in trim at release.

Gawd it's astounding how impossible it is for these morons to grasp the concept of trimming a glider for AT. I wonder how stupid they'd be minus Flight Park Mafia disinformation campaigns.

David Williamson - 2012/05/11 11:07:55 UTC

Davis Straub - 2012/05/10 22:24:30 UTC

Those wheels are really overkill for a single person glider.

The report says that they were following guidelines (which are now being reviewed)...

ALL fatality reports say the guidelines that were being followed are now being REVIEWED.

The Press - 2006/03/15

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is urgently pushing for new hang-gliding industry standards after learning a hang-gliding pilot who suffered serious injuries in a crash three weeks ago had not clipped himself on to the glider.

Extreme Air tandem gliding pilot James (Jim) Rooney safely clipped his passenger into the glider before departing from the Coronet Peak launch site, near Queenstown, CAA sports and recreation manager Rex Kenny said yesterday.

However, he took off without attaching himself.

In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.

Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.

NO fatality reports say the guidelines that were being followed are now being REVISED. REVISING a guideline would be an acknowledgement that the sixteen year old girl was only killed because of incompetence and negligence at the top level. So they REVIEW the guidelines, quietly find them flawless eighteen months later, implement a Focused Pilot initiative, get a lot of wristbands into circulation.

...which advised having the solo glider set-up as similar to the tandem set-up as possible, in a situation where the student had experience of tandem aerotow flights.

- Yeah, see how great that strategy worked in this case?

- Upon what actual data are these off-the-scale stupid pigfuckers basing this recommendation? Same place they got their 100 KG max weak link?

Sounds like some errors were made, mostly minor and probably not relevant plus one or more major ones.

One thing we know fer sure...

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

That's all consistent with the results of the front end action.

Davis Straub - 2012/05/11 11:39:49 UTC

Again, it is most often connected to the keel forward of the hang point to reduce bar pressure.

Thanks for clarifying that for us again. It reduces the bar pressure - for the little fags who NEED the bar pressure reduced, but doesn't have a millimeter's worth of effect on position.

Davis Straub - 2012/05/11 11:40:43 UTC

I read the report. I read the statement about the setup similarity. I found that to be bogus. It has nothing to do with my statement about using a more appropriate set of wheels.

I've read every scrap of relevant writing you've ever perpetrated on problematic hang gliding issues. I've found damn near all of it to be as bogus as you as a person are.

Also I find that when one element of a report, statement, article is bogus you hafta treat the entire document as bogus if you can't get independent verification. And it's a real good idea to write off the authors. I used to be so desperate for alliances that I'd let stuff slide. (Fuck you, Brian Vant-Hull. Rooney needed to be totally destroyed at all costs. And it was Team Kite Strings (in concert with the laws of Newtonian physics) that finally demolished him. We had the critical mass - with very little to spare.)

David Williamson - 2012/05/11 14:46:39 UTC

Absolutely, and I can't think of any good reason to have a solo glider set-up like that, unless it had been used for tandem flying in the past.

Yeah, let's get them to swap out those wheels before they kill again. Maybe make the weak link fifteen percent safer for good measure.

Davis Straub - 2012/05/11 15:11:29 UTC

Just to be clear. There is no reason to have this person on a Falcon 195.

Fear not. They won't ever have that person on a Falcon 195 again.

Otherwise the set up shouldn't be a problem. But, as I said, these wheels are customarily used on a single person Falcon here at Quest Air, but such a small pilot with so little experience would not be put on that glider.

There at Quest Air? Where you're gonna kill both Zack Marzec and Jeff Bohl on solo AT launches inside of a wee bit over the span of the next four years? How'd these two gliders:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg

WESH2-05
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7077/27082298482_cda1aba01b_o.png


end up working out for the two relevant pilots at Quest Air? Were their pilots not sufficiently experienced?

But that said, a small female pilot with lots of experience was flying that glider here recently and got down wind of the landing field and landed in a swampy area without damage to her and minor damage to the glider.

- Without damage to her and without minor damage to the glider? So she was undamaged and the glider sustained major damage?

- Well, my curiosity regarding that incident is certainly totally satisfied. A small unidentified female pilot with lots of experience flying a Falcon 195 got downwind and landed in a swamp with just minor damage to the glider. What more could we possibly want to know? Certainly nothing about anyone involved in clearing and launching her.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/542301d040f0b61346000bb7/Falcon_3_195_Hang_Glider_No_Reg_05-12.pdf
2012/05

Falcon (3) 195 Hang Glider - 2010
2011/10/28 12:49 UTC
Darley Moor Airfield, Derbyshire
(Lois Preston) Age - 16 years
13 dual aerotow launches
Pegasus Quantum 15-912
Information Source: Air Accidents Investigation Branch Field Investigation

Other information

Witnesses

One witness was watching the aerotow launch from the other end of the runway, some 400 m to 500 m away. He had with him a handheld radio and could hear the transmissions made by the instructor. He saw the hang glider turn to the left, after takeoff, and heard the instructor say to weight shift right. He did not see any sign of a correction but noted that the hang glider turned further left and that the nose up pitch attitude increased. As this happened, he heard the instructor call "release". He could tell that the tow had been released because the pitch attitude of the hang glider changed again. He saw the hang glider continue to turn left and adopt a nose down pitch attitude. The left turn then continued until the hang glider struck the ground.

He did not see any sign of a correction...

What the hell is that supposed to mean? We have from the instructor coaching and assisting at glider launch position and in the best position to observe what there was of a flight:

The hang glider lifted off and started deviating to the left, taking up a left banked attitude. The instructor on the ground, now positioned behind the hang glider, made a radio call to tell the student pilot to "shift right" but, as he did so, saw that a weight shift correction had already been made. However, he noted that the correction was not sufficient to level the wing of the hang glider and that the left turn continued and increased. He radioed to the student pilot to release.

And there was a Signaller 1...

1 - Diagram of the accident site

...real close by UNDOUBTEDLY glued to the rapidly unfolding horror show from whom we have no conflicting (or any other kind of) statement.

He did not see any sign of a correction but noted that the hang glider turned further left and that the nose up pitch attitude increased.

He didn't see any SIGN of a correction? She corrected to the stops but the glider didn't respond 'cause it was locking out and wasn't interested in any of her puny underweight control efforts?

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what these motherfuckers are doing to muddy the waters, draw our attention away from the actual critical stuff, leave us thinking that nobody's entirely certain as to why this one went so quickly and catastrophically south. Everybody present that day is just as confused as we are after reading the report.

Everybody at the fuckin' airfield had his eyes glued on this one - 'specially in the wake of Effort 1.0. When the glider started rolling left hearts from all points started skipping beats. And the instant Judy fixed whatever was going on back there everybody knew that the game was over.

Horror, shock, damage control mode. What were we thinking putting her up on the 195? And in the nine years since not ONE individual present that day has ever made a single public comment on anything having to do with that incident. Total plutonium.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo

Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).

Please take a deep breath. And wait.
Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)

Nah, we don't have years. We CAN get away with a few months though so let's get busy figuring out how we can best spin and obfuscate the issues.

These assholes should've had a good scooter setup for legitimate training. But they're making their bucks from tandem thrill rides - like all these AT operations - and instruction is pretty much a side game.

Why do scooter? We'll just take them up AT tandem until everybody's comfortable then toss them outta the nest. Hell that's what they do for sailplane.

But it's not the same 'cause hang gliders are WEIGHT SHIFT controlled whereas with sailplanes body weight isn't much of an issue.

But what they COULD and SHOULD have done - if they were gonna do it minus scooter - would been to have used the trike as a scooter. They could've put her on a little Falcon with the permanent gear, taxied the trike into the eight mph headwind they had, played with the throttle as needed.

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

.
Once that trike is airborne the glider's being towed an near twice its stall speed and once it starts going sideways you don't have much in the way of time or options. If she'd been tracking left with the trike on the ground they could've Reduced Gradually, let her land, hit the reset button.

There are zillions of Day One students who survive that level of activity just fine and start learning to fly hang gliders.

But fuckin' tuggies can't - over the course of DECADES - figure out how to properly, safely, legally rig a Dragonfly end tow mast / bridle / weak link / release / towline configuration - so don't hold your breath.

P.S. Yeah, that IS a pretty expensive scooter alternative. But compared to:

http://ozreport.com/13.238
Adam Parer on his tuck and tumble

Adam Parer - 2009/11/25

Due to the rough conditions weak links were breaking just about every other tow and the two tugs worked hard to eventually get everyone off the ground successfully.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).

DECADES worth of that moronic bullshit?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/542301d040f0b61346000bb7/Falcon_3_195_Hang_Glider_No_Reg_05-12.pdf
2012/05

Falcon (3) 195 Hang Glider - 2010
2011/10/28 12:49 UTC
Darley Moor Airfield, Derbyshire
(Lois Preston) Age - 16 years
13 dual aerotow launches
Pegasus Quantum 15-912
Information Source: Air Accidents Investigation Branch Field Investigation

History of the flight

The weather conditions were good, with a surface wind directly down the runway at around 5 kt. Runway 20 was in use.

Accident flight

The student pilot was re-briefed before the tow commenced. The hang glider lifted off and started deviating to the left, taking up a left banked attitude. The instructor on the ground, now positioned behind the hang glider, made a radio call to tell the student pilot to "shift right" but, as he did so, saw that a weight shift correction had already been made. However, he noted that the correction was not sufficient to level the wing of the hang glider and that the left turn continued and increased. He radioed to the student pilot to release. The towing pilot and then the student pilot released the tow line; the hang glider then went into a steep nose down, descending left spiral and struck the ground. The instructor later commented that he had been startled by the speed with which the accident had happened and his impression was that the situation was not recoverable.

The area of impact was on a disused concrete/asphalt runway surface. Several people ran over to give assistance and an air ambulance was called. The student pilot was transferred to hospital but had suffered fatal injuries in the accident.

Other information

Witnesses

Using the rear-view mirror, the pilot of the towing aircraft saw the hang glider deviate to the left after it lifted off. She considered that, at the point the hang glider was released from the tow, the situation should have been recoverable. It appeared to her that the student pilot did not make any further control inputs once the hang glider had released.

One witness was watching the aerotow launch from the other end of the runway, some 400 m to 500 m away. He had with him a handheld radio and could hear the transmissions made by the instructor. He saw the hang glider turn to the left, after takeoff, and heard the instructor say to weight shift right. He did not see any sign of a correction but noted that the hang glider turned further left and that the nose up pitch attitude increased. As this happened, he heard the instructor call "release". He could tell that the tow had been released because the pitch attitude of the hang glider changed again. He saw the hang glider continue to turn left and adopt a nose down pitch attitude. The left turn then continued until the hang glider struck the ground.
---
1 - Diagram of the accident site

History of the flight

The weather conditions were good...

Yeah, a bit before 13:00. That's when the thermals start kicking. Unless you're really into sleds it's rarely worth plopping a glider on a cart before noon.

NOWHERE does anyone say the conditions were good FOR STUDENT SOLO TRAINING FLIGHTS. This is midday. I didn't go to Ridgely in sled conditions and my memories are that all the solo training flights were morning and evening sled conditions.

We read:

The weather conditions were good...

automatically assume they're talking about glass, can't figure out why the glider rolls - left - on both flights. Lois is debriefed after she successfully aborts Flight 1 and nails the recovery. We're told NOTHING about HOW/WHY she started tracking left and think she's just going clueless. I'm NOW thinking she was bumped, attempted to correct (and NOWHERE does it say she DIDN'T), did what she should have.

...with a surface wind directly down the runway at around 5 kt. Runway 20 was in use.

...by the sailplane guys. So we decided we'd be OK launching crosswind on Runway 26. They don't say they were flying Runway 20 and they don't show wind direction on the diagram they contracted out to a third grader to produce. Runway 20 was IN USE? That tells us the same nothing these assholes tell us about thermal turbulence.

With a gun to my head I'd say they probably WERE using 20 'cause they wouldn't wanna push their luck that much what with all the witnesses and emergency responders in the picture. They're probably just having fun seeing what they can get away with, pushing the envelope. Also helps to numb the brain of the reader and lessen the likelihood of picking up on other shit we're trying to pull. We see the same pattern whenever Davis runs his yap.

Accident flight

The student pilot was re-briefed before the tow commenced.

It's pretty bouncy. Here's a milkshake - that'll help you get closer to the 195's min hook-in. Another FOCUSED PILOT wristband to remind you to respond quickly to getting kicked by a thermal, pull in immediately to prevent the glider from pitching up too much if Judy fixes whatever's going on back there for you. Break a leg.

The hang glider lifted off and started deviating to the left, taking up a left banked attitude.

Tug plus at least the Instructor and Signallers 1 and 2 in good position to see if she was doing anything wrong. Nobody ever even suggests SHIT. Responds IMMEDIATELY with hard right. I'm saying she was BUMPED.

The instructor on the ground...

Not to be confused with the instructor flying along beside her in the air.

...now positioned behind the hang glider...

Doesn't sound like much of a runner to me. A really good instructor will run around the side of the glider as she's accelerating to lift-off, get in front of her, run backwards to provide suggestions and encouragement.

...made a radio call to tell the student pilot to "shift right" but, as he did so, saw that a weight shift correction had already been made.

Well that's his opinion. There's another guy with a radio at the other end of the runway who saw NO SIGN of a correction but noted that the hang glider turned further left and that the nose up pitch attitude increased. That's WAY more consistent with the reports on what the glider was doing in these glassy smooth training conditions.

However, he noted that the correction...

The correction ALLEGED to have been attempted by only one of the three documented witnesses and the guy whose responsibility it had been to ensure that she knew how and when to effect such corrections. Not buying it.

...was not sufficient to level the wing of the hang glider...

Probably should've gone for both wings of the hang glider. But the "CORRECTION" she was making wasn't even sufficient to do one of the wings of the hang glider. And hey, you're not even telling us which one. I'm guessing left 'cause that would've been the one to hit first.

...and that the left turn....

Lockout.

...continued and increased.

Big fuckin' surprise.

He radioed to the student pilot to release.

You don't tell us ANYTHING about the altitude. But she was too low and this was just a desperation response.

The towing pilot and then the student pilot released the tow line; the hang glider then went into a steep nose down, descending left spiral and struck the ground. The instructor later commented that he had been startled by the speed with which the accident had happened and his impression was that the situation was not recoverable.

Ask him about the point at which he'd reached that conclusion. My money says that it was even before she was over to the stops trying to get the right wing back down.

The area of impact was on a disused concrete/asphalt runway surface.

Glad somebody was able to find a use for it.

Several people ran over to give assistance...

- Bit late for that.

- Several conspicuously unidentified people who'd been close to launch closely watching the horror show unfold. But we already have as many statements as we need so we certainly don't need to be bored with any of their observations and impressions.

- EVERYBODY within running range ran over to impact - but not to give assistance. They saw her hit.

- The Instructor, Signaller !, and a few hang glider people at setup ran over and arrived in that order. Somebody farther back hit 999 and an air ambulance was called. The student pilot was transferred to hospital but had suffered fatal injuries in the accident.

Other information

And we read that and naturally assume that means ALL other relevant information. Well done.

Witnesses

SOME witnesses. Carefully selected to help us craft our max damage control product.

Using the rear-view mirror, the pilot of the towing aircraft saw the hang glider deviate to the left after it lifted off.

Oh. The HANG GLIDER deviated to the left after it lifted off? Why? We NEVER hear that Lois did anything wrong to get into that situation. She aborts the first tow and lands fine so the glider doesn't have any tuning issue.

She considered that, at the point the hang glider was released from the tow, the situation should have been recoverable.

- And she's a totally disinterested party so she'd have no reason for considering that, at the point the hang glider was released from the tow, the situation should have been recoverable - if that were not the case. But let's withhold judgment until she posts a more detailed account of her actions and observations on this flight. In the meantime we'll amuse ourselves reading Davis's ten page description of his most recent thermal comp flight.

- Yeah Judy. If I'd hit the dump lever at low altitude and dropped a locked out sixteen year old girl on a way oversized glider on her second solo AT effort into a fatal head first stall onto the asphalt I too would be considering that, at the point the hang glider was released from the tow, the situation should have been recoverable. And I too wouldn't wanna participate in any public or private discussions about the incident.

But I can feel a lot sorrier and sympathy for you than I ever will for Steve Wendt and his crowd after Holly Korzilius and Bill Priday.

It appeared to her that the student pilot did not make any further control inputs once the hang glider had released.

- Sounds like her instructor totally sucked. Or maybe the glider was severely stalled and would've needed another hundred feet before there'd have been any point in making any further control inputs.

- Get fucked, Judy. She had the bar STUFFED - which the best and all she could do. Nobody's said anything to the contrary. Or do you have some recommendations on what control inputs we should be making if we find ourselves in a similar situation? Maybe make a training video. Probably a good idea not to start the lockout from under a thousand feet though.

- She dumped the 68.3 meters of correct material you'd just given her to fix whatever was going on back there - which was the only slightly useful thing she could do beyond stuffing the bar at that point. She deserves credit for that. And if NOTHING ELSE it clearly illustrates that she didn't "just freeze" - which is the way we always like to paint these incidents.

One witness was watching the aerotow launch from the other end of the runway, some 400 m to 500 m away.

And yet another witness was Signaller 2 who - according to your diagram was watching the aerotow launch from about 80 meters upwind of initiation. And if you knew where the flight was going and had to pick a surface observation point I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason that wouldn't be IDEAL. But let's get an account from some conspicuously unidentified observer three or four hundred meters upwind of where the shit was hitting the fan and get his impressions instead.

He had with him a handheld radio and could hear the transmissions made by the instructor.

Great! Signaller 2 didn't have with him a handheld radio and couldn't hear the transmissions made by the instructor. So he'd have had no fuckin' clue what Lois was being told to do and why. So pray do continue telling us about the observations of One witness with no stated background in any form of hang gliding.

He saw the hang glider turn to the left, after takeoff, and heard the instructor say to weight shift right.

Slow down! This information sounds like it might be critical to our understanding of what was really happening here. He saw the hang glider turn to the left, after -and definitely not before - takeoff, and heard the instructor say to WEIGHT SHIFT RIGHT.

He did not see any sign of a correction...

No, a good sign of correction would've been if the glider had started coming back after Lois pinned herself against the starboard downtube.

...but noted that the hang glider turned further left and that the nose up pitch attitude increased.

So she'd obviously weight shifted LEFT - to opposite of what her instructor radioed her to do and, on top of that, pushing out which would've rapidly accelerated the lockout. What an IDIOT! One can only imagine what she had to do to deceive her instructors that she was ready to solo. And on the monster Falcon 195 rather than their little 145 trainer.

As this happened, he heard the instructor call "release". He could tell that the tow had been released because the pitch attitude of the hang glider changed again.

Which way? Up or down? There seems to be a lot of confusion on this issue on the Davis Show discussion. (You DO know about The Davis Show, right? I'm sure they'd really appreciate whatever additional details you might be able to provide regarding this one.)

He saw the hang glider continue to turn left and adopt a nose down pitch attitude. The left turn then continued until the hang glider struck the ground.

How lucky we were to have this unidentified individual out at the upwind end of the runway to give us the best and most detailed account of what happened that we'll ever have documented.

There had to be a report from the Instructor. It states that Lois was over to the stops before he radioed to her to get over to the stops. We can't find one punctuation mark's worth of evidence that Lois performed south of her potential to control this flight. Ditto for anyone else of any skill level at that hook-in weight.

There had to be a report from the tug. We know she did nothing to adjust power or heading and when she hit the dump lever it was totally game over. She says NOTHING that discredits Lois's performance.

We filter and process a statement from some bozo at the far end of the runway to help neutralize Instructor's account of April doing everything right.

We pretend that all other participants and witnesses in the vicinity of launch - Signallers 1 and 2, pilots in the staging area using Lois as a wind dummy to see if it's yet worth lining up for launch - don't exist. Their observations and statements are gonna support what Instructor reported which totally clears Lois.

We can trace this strategy back to:

Doug Hildreth - 1991/03

1990/03/29 - Brad Anderson - 24 - Novice - Flight Designs Javelin - McMinnville, Oregon - head injury, ruptured thoracic aorta

"Strong novice" pilot with truck tow experience and instructors present launched and rose to fifty feet over truck. Pushed out hard enough to release and continued to push out after release. Whip stalled and dove into the ground. Died instantly.

(Equivalent rating and experience, only eight years older.)

And the authors of this document are REALLY GOOD at what they're doing. Good command of the language, spell checked, three miles long, puts you to sleep before you get through the first four paragraphs. u$hPa doesn't have two percent of the collective brain power to pull off a masterpiece like this.

I wonder what else I've managed to miss at this point.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo

Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

ND's onto it.

No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation... they want to know "NOW DAMNIT!" and there's always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.

And it's always the same.
The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.

We have a system in place.
It works.
Let it work.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).

Please take a deep breath. And wait.
Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)

The sky is not falling.

Good job putting that Ridgerodent douchebag in his place, Jim. Wanting to know "NOW DAMNIT!"; pointless, self-serving, damn arguments drug up every time...

And...

Doug Doerfler - 2012/05/10 14:04:03 UTC

I'm going to come right out and say it...who ever is responsible for setting this girl up should be in jail

A 134 lb pilot, first solo aerotow, behind a trike, on a Falcon 195...who the hell would be able to control that

Jim Gaar - 2012/05/10 14:42:32 UTC

I own and fly a Falcon 195. I hook in at 220 pounds and "I" have issues flying that delightful pig around.

This is one heck of a mess for sure. Heads should roll...

Airnut - 2012/05/10 19:09:23 UTC

When an accident occurs, analysis usually reveals a train of errors leading up to the event; the usual stacking up of the straws until the camel's back finally breaks. Flying well out of the recommended weight range adds yet another straw.

Sam Kellner - 2012/05/10 19:21:39 UTC

Can I change my mind? 195sqft 134lb pilot Aerotowing

Jim Gaar - 2012/05/10 20:54:22 UTC

Many very huge mistakes in judgement IMHO.

Davis Straub - 2012/05/11 11:40:43 UTC

I read the report. I read the statement about the setup similarity. I found that to be bogus.

Davis Straub - 2012/05/11 15:11:29 UTC

There is no reason to have this person on a Falcon 195.

...after the ten page AAIB investigation report comes out a really embarrassingly short time later the world's foremost authority on AT safety hasn't a single short whisper of a comment on any aspect of either of the two reported solos. Seventeen subsequent posts in the thread - none of them terribly complimentary about the way Airways Airsports had been running their operation.

Guess you were...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/09 18:30:26 UTC

It's like uttering the word "wheels"... the conversation instantly turns into the great wheel debate.

Sorry for the interruption.
Please continue with the speculation.
I'll be over here, doing something productive.

...over there doing something productive - something WAY MORE productive than going on the record on a single aspect of this one.

This is THE most extensive incident report in the world history of the sport. It dwarfs the crap u$hPa put out - for members only - on Jean Lake. Over three and a third times the word count. And Jean Lake killed a Hang Five fake tandem hang gliding instructor plus an eleven year old kid fake hang gliding student and was world news. This one killed the third youngest on a hang glider and the second youngest piloting a hang glider but was little more than a local news event.

Solo AT instruction fatal inconvenience stall. Much more important for you to put Ridgerodent in his place than to comment on any aspect of Airways Airsports. Your single post dwarfed pretty much ever other in that 33 post thread.

But you were over there doing something productive that we've never heard about and never will. And you'd have had to have produced something productive enough to be worthy of consideration for a Nobel Prize to hit the break-even point after your two most famous flights as Pilot In Command at Coronet Peak.

We can look around in the sport today and see good stuff that was innovated by individuals and teams and evolved from same:
- beautiful clean topless gliders with streamlined harnesses
- carbon landing skids
- the Henson Gap radial launch ramp
- electronics
- payout rigs
- launch dollies
- Koch two stage
- Kaluzhin release
- Tad-O-Link

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7916/31540774647_f71ed7cd5e_o.png
http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/FTHI.pdf

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929
Training Manual Comments / Contribution

Bill Cummings - 2012/01/10 14:04:59 UTC

Tad's procedures for aerotowing should become part of any training manual.

37-05121
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1676/25661585790_4ed1db6bd6_o.png


You have NOTHING. As a matter o' fact... NOTHING would be a monumental improvement on all the productive stuff you contributed to the sport.

And ya know what's almost as disgusting as you yourself are? None of the Davis Show Members In Good Standing call you on that post even after seeing the shit that BHPA wasn't able to sufficiently obfuscate. How much difference is there between tolerating the shit that went into setting that one up and tolerating you and your shit? It all tends to end up in the same crumpled heap.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo

Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

ND's onto it.

No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation... they want to know "NOW DAMNIT!" and there's always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.

And it's always the same.
The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.

We have a system in place.
It works.
Let it work.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).

Please take a deep breath. And wait.
Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)

The sky is not falling.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC

Tommy.
First, I sent Steve a bunch of info offline. Hopefully it clears things up a bit for him.
Unfortunately, he's stumbled onto some of Tad's old rantings and got suckered in. So most of this was just the same old story of debunking Tad's lunacy... again .

See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
We know what we're doing.

Sure "there's always room for improvement", but you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.
There isn't going to be some "oh gee, why didn't I think of that?" moment. The obvious answers have already been explored... at length.

Anyway...
Weaklink material... exactly what Davis said.

It's no mystery.
It's only a mystery why people choose to reinvent the wheel when we've got a proven system that works.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/13 19:09:33 UTC

It was already worked out by the time I arrived.
The reason it sticks?
Trail and error.

http://airtribune.com/2019-big-spring-nationals/info/details__info
2019 Big Spring Nationals (pre-Pan-Americans)
http://airtribune.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com/media/contest/files/2019/07/GTxd6mT4AIn8.pdf
Local Rules

15 - Launch

Weaklinks of 140 and 200 pounds will be available and provided by the organizers. Weaklinks provided by the organizers must be used by the competitors.

We have a system in place.

- Who's "we"? Sounds like you're saying that you personally had a major role in establishing BHPA AT SOPs.

And the fact o' the matter is that you've never contributed a punctuation mark to anything anywhere that made it to paper. You've never:
-- been:
--- an elected or appointed member of a national association or local chapter board
--- asked for a scrap of input
-- written an article, letter to the editor
-- published an online resource à la Red Howard or the tons o' stuff on Kite Strings

All you ever did was get on forums and shoot your idiot mouth off as long as you had the protection of douchebags like CHGA, Davis, Jack. CHGA went extinct - for the purpose of the exercise - with the collapse of Ridgely, Jack eventually cut your wire (and the worlds largest hang gliding community was downgraded to a local coffee shop and the local coffee shop doesn't even see a fraction of enough activity to stay open as a local coffee shop), Davis started recognizing you as the high grade fuel for Kite Strings you were and let you have enough rope to hang yourself post Marzec.

- We had a system in place 2011/10/28 at Darley Moor Airfield when a sixteen year old kid bought it behind Judy Leden three seconds after Judy fixed whatever was going on back there by giving Lois the rope. At least one totally legitimate, common sense, major element of that system was flagrantly and deliberately violated and it's highly probable that that was THE deal breaker on this one. Yet none of the directly responsible parties, two at an absolute minimum, were ever held the slightest degree responsible - or even identified. So for the purpose of the exercise we had ZERO system in place. They could've shot her in the side of the head and the results would've been the same.

- For every commercial and virtually every recreational serious incident we've had a system in place. And it's FAILED. So who's supposed to be developing, revising, updating, implementing, enforcing the system we have in place?

-- Bobby, who's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit? Show me one single scrap of evidence to indicate that he's:

--- ever once been on the back end of an AT rope - even hooked into a hang glider since his boat towing days in Florida in the Seventies when he was happily hooking control frame only

--- capable of getting a sentence on paper all by himself (even/especially after towing the then Norwegian national champion to a fatal impact on Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey "designed" equipment at the 2005 Worlds (when he could've easily fixed whatever was going on back there by giving him the rope (the way you would've)))

-- Steve Wendt who's so exceptionally knowledgeable that he signed your instructor rating, Holly Korzilius's AT ticket, Bill Priday's Cliff Launch Special Skill? There's only one sample of his writing available in the known universe - a report on the Manquin version of Lois Preston. We've seen it and it wouldn't pass muster for a third grade English class assignment.

-- Bo Hagewood who's the only pilot who's ever been able to keep up the timing needed for you to be able to successfully tow him at full boost?

-- Russell, Malcolm, Paulen Tjaden, Adam Elchin, Matt, Trisa, Bart, Dennis?

All these incredibly modest few unsung heroes actually working on (but never actually completing any) things being masked by the fanatic fringe. It certainly must sadden you to know that. What a burden it must be for you to be so saddened for so long.

- So there was a gaping hidden hole at Darley Moor that at 2011/10/28 12:45 UTC needed to be immediately addressed but wasn't. And by early 2012/05 we had the most extensive top quality incident report ever in world hang gliding history which covered every relevant detail a minimum of five times over. But the gaping hidden hole wasn't actually addressed 'cause six months plus wasn't anywhere near a respectful enough delay. And now we're under four days shy of the nine year mark.

At Quest on 2013/02/02 there was a gaping hidden hole that didn't need to be addressed immediately that Zack Marzec fell through. And the system we had in place couldn't work because by the end of the month (yes month) nobody had any idea what happened. And if nobody ever had any idea what then nobody had any idea that it WASN'T the same gaping hidden hole that the AAIB identified but nobody ever did anything about.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

The well established procedures you have at this point in time violate the crap outta the procedures specified in both u$hPa AT SOPs and FAA AT regs. And the only ways we have of knowing what we actually have as our well established procedures are to look at YouTube videos, read the accounts of crashes that Tim Herr hasn't been able to get his hands on, see what Davis is mandating as rules for national comps.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

Why are we reduced to giving weight to your comments rather that adhering to the SOPs you've written? Wouldn't they work marvels to identify the muppets unqualified to fly pro toad with Tad-O-Links? Hard to believe no one ever slips through the cracks as things are being done now. And since you've been totally out of the picture since 2016/09/29 Mitch Shipley has been totally out of the picture since probably thirteen months plus two days ago we're all having a lot of difficulty figuring out whose current opinions we should be adhering to in order to keep getting things as right as humanly possible.

Notice these assholes never reference any documents in print...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929
Training Manual Comments / Contribution

Bill Cummings - 2012/01/10 14:04:59 UTC

Tad's procedures for aerotowing should become part of any training manual.

...textbooks, SOPs, magazine articles, web resources... There's supposed to be this priesthood of unidentified highly qualified individuals modestly constantly toiling behind the scenes fine tuning things closer and closer towards the limits of perfection.

We actually have something close to this in platform and stationary winch step towing since you have hang glider people at both ends of the string and no conflicts of interest over real or imagined/invented safety issues. The equipment, procedures, executions tend to be at least pretty good and efficient - given the limitations south of AT.

(Yeah, you can go to Sam Kellner, Kelly Harrison lengths to fuck things up but that requires monumental outputs of effort.)

But in AT...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

My response is short because I've been saying it for years... and yes, I'm a bit sick of it.
This is a very old horse and has been beaten to death time and time again... by a very vocal minority.

See, most people are happy with how we do things. This isn't an issue for them. They just come out and fly. Thing's aren't perfect, but that's life... and life ain't perfect. You do what you can with what you've got and you move on.

But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)

I have little time for these people.

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.

A fun saying that I picked up... Some people listen with the intent of understanding. Others with the intent of responding.
I like that.

For fun... if you're not seeing what I mean... try having a conversation here about wheels.

The LAST thing these motherfuckers want is a Langewiesche's "Stick and Rudder" quality reference that anybody can access to get on the right page on everything.

You don't want your bible available out there in a language the peasants can understand. You want your priesthood doing the translation, interpretation, telling the peasants/muppets what everything really means with respect to the present situation. Same reason Bob wouldn't tolerate me writing even draft SOPs for his really awesome new national hang gliding association.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Cragin Shelton - 2011/09/03 23:57:33 UTC

Nice Reference Citation

Ridgerodent:
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release."- Richard Johnson

Do you REALLY think that there has been no progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding in 37 years? OR that an early, 3+ decade old, information book written by a non-pilot is a solid reference when you have multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion?

Yeah Cragin. But here we are pushing 23 years since the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden hit the street, not so much as a single punctuation mark has been revised, u$hPa's still pushing it on their website. Must've had everything perfected by late 1997.

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release."- Richard Johnson

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Weak links very clearly will provide protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns and the like for this form of towing.

Pro Tip: Always thank the tug pilot for intentionally releasing you, even if you feel you could have ridden it out. He should be given a vote of confidence that he made a good decision in the interest of your safety.

Cragin Shelton - 2001/08/08

NEVER TRUST A WEAK LINK!

Expect two things from your weak link:
(1) It will break unexpectedly at the most inopportune time, with no warning adn no indicaiton of a flight problem.
(2) It will hold strong and fast whenever you move into a lockout.

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

Plot a graph for the way our evolution has gone for that one.