launching

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXRmJtm4Z7I
My worst crash ever...Hangliding

Aaron Swepston

Quitting is an option that would definitely prevent you from doing that again. It might be the best option, that's totally up to you. However, if you decide to continue on in the sport, you really ought to learn better technique. It was not the conditions that got you, it was really terrible launch technique. You didn't "launch" the glider, you stood there under control, until you were ready to launch, and then you just let it all go, relinquished all pilot control. Loosened your grip, let go of the downtubes, let the angle come up to stall, and went for a scary ride. That's not how to succeed, nor survive. Learning good technique will help keep you alive, will help minimize problems, minimize stress, improve confidence, and make the sport incredibly rewarding. It's not hard to learn good habits, but it takes a desire to do so. It's always up to the individual pilot. If you are willing to learn better technique, then awesome! It's a great sport. If you think you are already there (have decent technique), then quitting would likely be the best option.

Mitch Graham

Thanks for the comment.. I know I had bad technique but you make it sound like I did it on purpose. Nobody wants to suck. As I mentioned, i dont have currency on a hanglider and I only fly them a few times a year. I wanted people to take it as a learning point that a lack of currency makes it easy for you to make mistakes like I did.

Aaron Swepston

I'm sorry if I did not adequately sugar coat my note, and also that you mistook it as assuming you acted with purpose. Quite the opposite was my thought. It appeared to me that you lacked purpose, authority, control, and the knowledge that would have provided that purpose, authority, and control.

In other words, you were in way over your head, attempting to fly in winds well exceeding your skill level. You lacked the judgement to recognize that, and to back away intact.

You say that you posted the video for the educational benefit, and yet when an education comes your way you get all upset. Who's benefit were you posting for? Your own education, or for other people to learn from your mistakes? If it's for your own learning, then set your ego aside and pay attention. If it's for other people's benefit, then people, if you want to learn don't get mad when someone tries to give you sound advice.

If you'd prefer to talk privately where your feelings might get in the way less, by all means let's talk. I'd hate to see you give up flying due the concerns stemming from a lack of education, but more so I'd hate to see you get hurt for the same reason.

Mitch Graham

I'm not upset. I responded to your comment the way I did because I can tell you have an abrasive personality. I already acknowledged that it was my fault in many ways but thanks for reiterating the point

You're totally full o' shit, Aaron.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3083
Analyze a blown launch

Bob Kuczewski - 2018/10/26 08:57:29 UTC

The "tight left / slack right" wires were a bad place to start. It might have been better to move further down the ramp. I also noticed the instant reaching for the base tube and trying to kick into the harness right away. I see a lot of pilots doing both, but the first job should always be flying the glider safely away from the hill. But I'm not sure if anything could have overcome launching with that much differential lift. It's very fortunate that he wasn't badly hurt or killed.

The "tight left / slack right" wires were a bad place to start.

Ya think?

It might have been better to move further down the ramp.

Ya think? You mean where he and Robin were intending to start before the u$hPa El Paso Region Safety Director ordered otherwise? Did you WATCH the video or just fast-forward to the ground loop part?

Or maybe fArther up the ramp. After all, Mitch and Robin DID move five feet down after Hadley advised them of the increasing danger in that direction. I think the RIGHT call would've been to back it up five feet. (Right...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC

You want MORE.
I want you to have less.
This is the fundamental disagreement.
You're afraid of breaking off with a high AOA? Good... tow with a WEAKER weaklink... you won't be able to achieve a high AOA. Problem solved.

I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties.
Don't like it?
Don't ask me to tow you.

Go troll somewhere else buddy.
I'm over this.

...Jim?)

I also noticed the instant reaching for the base tube and trying to kick into the harness right away.

- Tell me how the fuck anything he did or didn't do after:

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mattered in the least.

- Right Bob. He should've kept his right hand on the starboard control tube.

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That way he'd have been able to fly smoothly out of the situation and have an enjoyable evening.

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I just shudder whenever I see assholes like this reaching for the control tubes stabilizer beam before they've even gotten a third of the way...

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...out to the LZ. I think assholes like Mitch are always going to the control tubes stabilizer beam at the earliest possible moment 'cause they think it makes them look cool. Just like walking around in their harnesses...

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...when they're not connected to their gliders. I have no freakin' clue how this:

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moron managed to clear launch without getting killed three times over.

- Yeah Bob, he's trying to kick into the harness.

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He's still thinking he's gonna be up for an hour or so in the evening glass-off and wants the get as comfortable as possible as soon as possible. What a total bozo. Lotsa idiots would've figured he was doing everything possible to get as much weight as possible to the port and forward. But you got this guy totally pegged.

I see a lot of pilots doing both, but the first job should always be flying the glider safely away from the hill.

- Since we've already done the hang check in the setup area.

- And we can ALWAYS fly gliders safely away from hills with our hands on the control tubes at shoulder or ear height where the designer of this particular glider...

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...says he can't control it.

But I'm not sure if anything could have overcome launching with that much differential lift.

Then why bring up the moronic bullshit from your previous two sentences? 'Cause it's MAINSTREAMER moronic bullshit and you're not really running a hang gliding association, just a never-ending Bob Kuczewski popularity contest posing as a hang gliding association? So when Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight says:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvhzoVC1UqM
Simple Progression for Teaching Hang Gliding

Ryan Voight - 2015/02/22

If you teach them how to pull the glider with the harness they'll learn to steer the glider through weight shift simply by running toward their target.

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you're gonna slather praise on all the participants in the "debate" and tell us that you have very little experience steering the glider through weight shift simply by running toward your target and that it's a very complex issue dependent upon many factors - such as density altitude, Coriolis effect, lunar cycle, sunspot activity - and it's really impossible to say one way or another with any reasonable degree of certainty.

Somebody find me a single example of Bob actually weighing in on such a discussion and NOT using that tactic.

It's very fortunate that he wasn't badly hurt or killed.

The way Terry was when he trusted the wrong assholes in your bullshit organization?

And then at 2018/10/27 00:39:03 UTC we get from Bob Show douchebag in good standing Rick Masters a pile of useless clueless abusive macho crap similar to the pile of useless clueless abusive macho crap we'd previously heard from Aaron. Funny dickheads like these never seem to have any issues with the instructors and programs that certified their products to operate in these environments.

Bob Kuczewski - 2018/11/01 17:50:59 UTC

FYI, Tad did a good frame by frame analysis of this launch on his site:

http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67&start=170#p11143

From the earliest moments of the launch, the pilot was fighting to keep the left wing down. That's a loaded spring ready to release. He should have backed off right there and started again.

The analogy to USHPA is striking.

FYI, Tad did a good frame by frame analysis of this launch on his site:

http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67&start=170#p11143

If you read it then how come you allowed Dickhead Rick to get away with that pile of useless clueless abusive macho crap he posted just above?

From the earliest moments of the launch, the pilot was fighting to keep the left wing down.

From the earliest moments of launch the situation was nonrecoverable and the guy was a passenger.

That's a loaded spring ready to release.

Now there's a thought...

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Nah, too many parts.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318603266/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306300488/

Wouldn't work in reality. Besides... We have an Infallible Weak Link...

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...that'll keep us from getting into too much trouble.

He should have backed off right there and started again.

- Sure Bob... He should've aborted the launch right here:

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and started again. But he obviously thought he could fix a bad thing didn't wanna start over.

- What should his nose man and the Launch Director have been doing? Pretty telling that you're aligning yourself with the hordes bending over backwards to totally ignore the contributions of Hadley Robinson and Robin Hastings to this one.

The analogy to USHPA is striking.

Wanna see another striking analogy in the u$hPa department?

Malcolm Jones - 2018/04

Alright. Push back while you're on the dolly. You pull in and stay on the dolly too long. Ready?

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Hadley Robinson - 2018/10/05

Yeah, that's too dangerous for your nose man down there.

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Too dangerous for the nose man down there.

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We got both of these u$hPa backed commercial operator motherfuckers ON TAPE clearly instructing their victims to take launch actions that they follow which set them up for potentially fatal disasters.

Rob Skinner is using the Standard Aerotow Weak Link that Malcolm told him (and untold tens of thousands over the decades) will...

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2018/11/05

A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

...keep him from getting into too much trouble and is also telling him not to build up safe airspeed before coming off the cart 'cause Malcolm doesn't wanna be inconvenienced by the longer retrieve. The consequences put Rob one safety enhancing inconvenience away from a likely fatal high speed cartwheel.

Hadley tells Mitch to stay back in the trash where only ONE of his wings has any airspeed and puts him into a launch ground loop which terminates in a straight downwind impact back into the slope both of the ground people fear is fatal before they get to him.

Shoot the two senior motherfuckers in these two incidents and both launches go off fine with tons of clean even airspeed to burn. And somebody find me - from anywhere in the history of u$hPa's Pilot Proficiency Program - an instance of a u$hPa certified instructor having disciplinary action taken against him for teaching total rot that's gotten a student under his supervision crashed, trashed, killed. (Anybody remember Nancy Tachibana on Pat Denevan's state-of-the-art equipment? If not then...)

What u$hPa does instead is delete the identities of the victim and his instructor from its records within thirty seconds of the loss of a detectable pulse.

The "tight left / slack right" wires were a bad place to start. It might have been better to move further down the ramp. I also noticed the instant reaching for the base tube and trying to kick into the harness right away. I see a lot of pilots doing both, but the first job should always be flying the glider safely away from the hill. But I'm not sure if anything could have overcome launching with that much differential lift. It's very fortunate that he wasn't badly hurt or killed.

FYI, Tad did a good frame by frame analysis of this launch on his site:

http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67&start=170#p11143

From the earliest moments of the launch, the pilot was fighting to keep the left wing down. That's a loaded spring ready to release. He should have backed off right there and started again.

The analogy to USHPA is striking.

Once he initiated from the point at which his instructor and the Pilot In Command of that operation ordered him to there was no option to abort and no possibility of flying out of the situation (given that he only had one wing that was flying). The only option he had was to mitigate the severity of the inevitable crash and he reacted INSTANTLY and PRECISELY as he should have. 54-12945 above illustrates that extremely well. And he walked away and was fully recovered within a week and his glider sustained incredibly minimal damage given the potential that situation afforded.

Pity we're not assigning blame and praise where it's called for. Me... I'd sign Mitch off for his next rating and an AWCL Special Skill (if he didn't already have it) and revoke Hadley's Hang Gliding Instructor appointment for a year or two - and demand that he publicly apologize to Mitch and generously reimburse him for the damages, injuries, losses, suffering he sustained.

[<BS>]

At least no one came close to flipping over backwards on launch.

[Tad Eareckson]

And he had a nice locking carabiner...

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...so there was very little danger of him falling out of his glider.

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And he also allowed his wing to float up into the turbulent jet stream...

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...and tension his suspension, harness, leg loops so at least he had the feedback to tell him he wasn't gonna fall from his glider...

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...for that reason.

And speaking of suspension...

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- The spreader's down from where the fuckin' manual tells you it's supposed to be - although not to a Chris Valley...

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...extent of imbecility.

- He's extended his suspension with a webbing loop between the glider's hang strap and his carabiner. That's gonna burn fabric and slightly increase effort every time he effects a significant lateral control input - like fer instance:

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Is it a big fucking deal? No. But it's a crappy way to do things and obviously nobody from his neck of the woods has the slightest problem with it. And these are the same assholes that don't have many problems with the kinda shit that ended his career and could've easily gotten him killed.
---
P.S. - 2018/11/06 19:10:00 UTC

And note the foot:

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being planted on the middle of the speed bar (also not being commented on).

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57483
Crash on Launch

Phil Sergent - 2018/10/23 18:16:41 UTC

Ring those wires...

I'm seeing a pilot that didn't have full control of his glider prior to launch (among other aforementioned things). The launch assistant had his hands wrapped around the front wires until the pilot yelled clear. That's not supposed to be the way it works, is it? My understanding is that prior to launch, your assistant (s) should give you complete control of your glider by ringing the wires with their hands (showing and communicating 'no pressure'), not by holding them.

If you can't stand a couple of seconds (with the wires ringed) while demonstrating full control of your glider, then it's too windy, you're too inexperienced or both.

This is not the fault of the assistant, it's the responsibility of the PIC.

I'm seeing a pilot that didn't have full control of his glider prior to launch (among other aforementioned things).

When were you seeing a pilot who had ANY control of "his" glider in the course of this disaster movie? Robin took physical control of the glider for virtually the entire sequence and Hadley took administrative control of the operation when they got onto the ramp.

The launch assistant had his hands wrapped around the front wires until the pilot yelled clear.

Bull fucking shit.

Holding the nose wires to make sure he doesn't come anywhere close to flipping over backwards - while the starboard wing is dangling in the wind shadow:

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Hands open. He's signaling that the glider's in good shape and he's not doing anything in the way of input. In theory he COULD BE pushing the nose UP. But everything we've seen so far in the video indicates he has no fucking clue how to do that. And if he WERE pushing up on the wires three feet in front of Mitch's face the latter would be seeing as well as feeling it. Nah, just try to keep it the way I'm giving it to you, Mitch. You'll be fine.

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Hands unambiguously clear. Glider hasn't budged so you're still good to go. Just give me another second to dive clear then push the button.

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Mitch Graham - 2018/10/05 18:30 MDT ~

CLEAR!

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He already knows he's in trouble. His body's angled to port and he's trying to torque his high wing down.

Too bad he never learned how to pull the glider with the harness to steer it through weight shift simply by running toward his target. (Notice that not one single individual, 'specially Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight, anywhere is commenting that that's what he should be doing at this point - rather than torqueing the control frame / glider to level, which is obviously what he's trying to do.)

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That's not supposed to be the way it works, is it?

Wanna see a couple examples of the way things are SUPPOSED TO WORK in this sport?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvhzoVC1UqM
Simple Progression for Teaching Hang Gliding

Ryan Voight - 2015/02/22

If you teach them how to pull the glider with the harness they'll learn to steer the glider through weight shift simply by running toward their target.

069-25104
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http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2018/11/07

A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

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So why don't you write us a book on how things are SUPPOSED TO WORK in hang gliding. Just say whatever the fuck you feel like saying - like everybody else always has. If you didn't have a perfectly acceptable opinion would Davis be allowing you to post on his dickhead club forum?

My understanding is that prior to launch...

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 1981/05

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

Just kidding. Do continue.

...your assistant (s) should give you complete control of your glider...

I got news for ya, motherfucker. Never in the history of aviation has anyone ever had complete control of his glider. There's always shit like gravity, inertia, airflow, terrain that get votes. This is why wire crews were invented in the first place. However... Seeing as how he's getting signals from the assholes "assisting" him that he's in great shape and he keeps it that way by not adjusting anything a reasonable argument can be made that he DOES have complete control of his glider PRIOR TO launch. DURING launch... Not so much.

...by ringing the wires with their hands (showing and communicating 'no pressure'), not by holding them.

- How 'bout this:

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87-60846

Isn't what Robin's doing in the second frame a whole lot better than ringing the wires with his hands (showing and communicating 'no pressure') and how much better control does Mitch need to be demonstrating? If you Photoshopped Robin out of those two shots how easily would you be able to tell them apart?

Show me a frame from anywhere in this entire sequence from:

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to:

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in which that asshole is doing ANYTHING to make moving the glider from the setup area to the selected launch position and configuring for launch EASIER and/or BETTER. The most useful thing he could've done would've been to tell Hadley to go fuck himself when the latter directed them not to move forward on the ramp.

- If "ringing the wires with his hands" IS what's SUPPOSED TO BE DONE and nobody anywhere is actually doing it then isn't that a massive failure of u$hPa's instructional system rather than a failure of the clueless bozos involved in this launch effort?

If you can't stand a couple of seconds (with the wires ringed) while demonstrating full control of your glider, then it's too windy, you're too inexperienced or both.

- Go fuck yourself. He could've stood there by himself demonstrating full control of his glider until the sun had finished going down and he'd have still had exactly the same results after initiating.

- Go fuck yourself again. This wasn't a wire crew situation. And in REAL wire crew situations you can be standing there for ten minutes while your crew's keeping you from getting killed waiting for a survivable two second window. And when you get it say "Clear!" and launch before it's half over.

- I've never seen or had any use for this moronic wire ringing bullshit. A competent crew is gonna help trim the glider and they're gonna tell you what's going on with it. And if want or need to check what's going on all ya need to do is check for wire deflection. And if you've got somebody on the nose in a non Makapu'u Point / windy High Rock situation it isn't a competent operation anyway.

This is not the fault of the assistant, it's the responsibility of the PIC.

- So you're totally good with the u$hPa 2017 Paragliding Instructor of the Year who ordered the launch not to advance down the ramp into clean air. This guy could've EASILY been a Two flying under the supervision of a qualified u$hPa Instructor or Observer as per the guidelines in the Pilot Proficiency System. So tell me how if that's on the books an Instructor or Observer has zilch responsibility / accountability for a situation that ends up as tits up as this one did.

- Right. The responsibility of the Instructor is to teach you whatever crap he feels like, totally ignore rating requirements and SOPs, restrict your flying opportunities so's he can keep charging you for lessons while you're perfecting your upright flying technique and flare timing, sell you lethal crap for towing environments, give you lethal instructions for operating in soaring environments, collect his Instructor of the Year Award for being a loyal, dues paying u$hPa cocksucker. And whenever one of his products crashes and burns he's got 0.000 percent responsibility - even when we have him on tape giving him the shit instructions that are gonna get Mitch's career ended fifteen seconds prior impact. Is this a great country or what.

- Whenever you hear this "responsibility of the PIC" bullshit you can bet your bottom dollar that most of the blame for what happened belonged elsewhere and cover is being provided to the guilty party(s).

When a total dickhead like Bo Hagewood borrows a glider with two millimeter racing wires, is told not to loop it, tries to loop it, blows it up attempting a loop, throws a chute that he hasn't connected to his harness, buys himself a long hospitalization, nobody says anything about it being the responsibility of the Pilot In Command. When the same douchebag knocks himself unconscious and kills the Hang Two student he was keeping safe by clipping the trees while turning onto final on what was to be his last mandatory tandem ride before being cleared for solo, Michael Elliot will have been the Pilot In Command and nobody will be talking about responsibility.

An Industry player is only ever responsible for anything after failing to clip a young female bucket lister in for an instructional discovery flight and dropping her a thousand feet. Then he gets totally thrown to the wolves while all the motherfuckers who trained and certified him are totally off the hook.

[Tad Eareckson]

Much as I hate to here duplicate the semiliterate drivel from this Davis Show sewer Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney wannabe...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57483
Crash on Launch

Ben Reese - 2018/10/23 17:08:07 UTC

Several issues added to failed launch.

The best info comes from the camera man standing to the right.

1. Pilot was to far back on launch for that wind speed and direction.

2. Right wing was to low and to far back at crest of hill.

3. Pilot needed to walk out further and down launch area 10'-15' placing right wing in same air as left wing.

4. Note vid at 3:14 slow motion time stamp where left wing is clearly lifting and starting a right turn before he launches.

5. Note at 3:16 how right wing hits sage brush being to low and to far back on hill to clear.

6. His fate was sealed by that more than all else combined.

If the pilot had moved out further and kept his wings high and level then even with all his bad technique he would most likely got off safely.

Both the camera man and wire man should have suggested to get in a better launch position.

But all responsibility rests with the pilot for not setting up right for the conditions.

He absolutely should have felt the wing pressure lifting the left wing more than right.
This was while standing on launch. He did notice it when it was to late to correct and that is why his wing dragged across the sage brush sealing his fate...

It is very fortunate that the camera man got video and the keel camera gives us perspective. The keel camera alone does not tell the story conclusively. Together this vid gives us all a reminder to get into the clearest air and once committed, Run, Run, Run..

Even when the run is short and seems un-needed, do it anyway.

Glad the pilot was not injured seriously.

Thanks for sharing an imbarrssing video so we can all learn and reminded to be vigilant about launching on uneven ground.

Several issues added to failed launch.

Decades worth of issues went into the failed launch.

The best info comes from the camera man standing to the right.

Yep...

Hadley Robinson, 2017 u$hPa Paragliding Instructor of the Year - 2018/10/05

Yeah, that's too dangerous for your nose man down there.. Too dangerous for the nose man down there.

Hard to argue with that. And if he comes off with so much as a lightly skinned knee it happens at:

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1. Pilot was to...

Six opportunities to spell "too" correctly and blows every one of them.

...far back on launch for that wind speed and direction.

But it was just fine for his nose man. So on the average things worked out pretty well.

4. Note vid at 3:14 slow motion time stamp where left wing is clearly lifting and starting a right turn before he launches.

He DOESN'T launch - if we're defining launch as getting two wings flying. And he's safe and stable before he initiates the attempt.

5. Note at 3:16 how right wing hits sage brush being to low and to far back on hill to clear.

Who gives a flying fuck?

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He initiated with his port wing flying and his starboard wing stalled. Why do we need to discuss anything that happened afterwards?

6. His fate was sealed by that more than all else combined.

Bull fucking shit. His fate was sealed decades ago as a consequence of the founding fundamental incompetence of the sport.

If the pilot had moved out further and kept his wings high and level then even with all his bad technique he would most likely got off safely.

- Like he was gonna do before the cameraman standing to the right with the best info, credentials, and perspective on the situation ordered him not too?

- I despise these total fucking douchebags who talk about "TECHNIQUE" with respect to hang gliding. Technique involves subtle and precise high level skills. It applies to the stuff done by gymnasts, basketball players, landscape artists, concert violinists. There is NOTHING we do in hang gliding at any level that involves TECHNIQUE of any kind. We pull in, push out, shift our weight from side to side, pull VG tight and loose. The most highly skilled hang glider pilot who ever pulled off a perfectly timed landing flare is a total oaf compared to the clumsiest Turkey Vulture who ever made it a hundred yards out from the point at which he hatched.

There is no technique involved in walking a glider another ten feet down a launch ramp, pointing it into the wind, making sure the wings are level and equally loaded, holding the nose down to a low angle of attack, taking two or three steps forward. Assholes who talk about technique are doing it just to present themselves as superior beings with vast degrees of experience and denigrate low timers who've made simple and obvious costly mistakes.

Both the camera man and wire man should have suggested to get in a better launch position.

Well since the cameraman countermanded the pilot's decision to do just that and the wire man complied along with the pilot why are we putting this on the guy who crashed and burned?

But all responsibility rests with the pilot for not setting up right for the conditions.

Right. ALL responsibility. u$hPa tells the FAA that they're self regulating - they have certified gliders and train instructors, pilots, tandem thrill ride drivers, bucket lusters with thirty day memberships in competency to advance hang gliding as a legitimate flavor of aviation. And then back in the REAL world when we get one of these it's 100.000 percent the fault and responsibility of the guy who eats the mountain. Ditto when an eleven year old tandem student gets pile driven into the dry lakebed - along with his Master rated "instructor".

And here's what my dictionary says about self-regulation:

the fact of something such as an organization regulating itself without intervention from external bodies

Something such as an organization. That's the way u$hPa's presenting itself to the public and FAA. And that's most assuredly NOT you break you're fuckin' neck it's totally on you and your self-regulation, dude - clearly absolutely nothing to do with us.

He absolutely should have felt the wing pressure lifting the left wing more than right.

- The wing TENSION. PRESSURE is something transmitted through a towline to a weak link.

- Bull fucking shit. From:

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to:

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that glider is STABLE. It's not level and the port wing's flying while the starboard wing isn't but the roll isn't increasing and he's not delivering any torque to resist any roll force. It's not until:

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he initiates that the situation destabilizes.

This was while standing on launch.

See above about standing versus initiating.

He did notice it when it was to late to correct and that is why his wing dragged across the sage brush sealing his fate...

So did Hadley and Robin. Go figure.

It is very fortunate that the camera man got video and the keel camera gives us perspective.

Too bad we didn't get any useable audio from Hadley's camera. Might have shed some light on the issue of Mitch's refusal to move down the ramp to a survivable launch position.

The keel camera alone does not tell the story conclusively. Together this vid gives us all a reminder to get into the clearest air and once committed, Run, Run, Run..

Wow. Something we all can learn from.

Even when the run is short and seems un-needed, do it anyway.

- 'Specially in a stiff breeze when one wing is lifting while the other is hopelessly stalled.
- And it's always best to fly under the supervision of a paragliding instructor - until you become one yourself of course.

Glad the pilot was not injured seriously.

Just enough to end his hang gliding career. Nothing really serious though.

Thanks for sharing an imbarrssing video so we can all learn and reminded to be vigilant about launching on uneven ground.

See? Told ya we could all learn from this one. No one should ever be to imbarrssed to admit that he's still a student - and always will be. ('Cause he's incapable of ever understanding the junior high level aeronautical theory that will get him to where he should've been years ago before he got off the training hill.)

Imbarrssed. That's when one's too arrsed in a situation to have a possibility of extracting oneself. Like:


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg

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[<BS>]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3122
US Hawks Hook-In Verification Poll

...IT'S NOT A SMOOTH TWANGER LAUNCH LIKE ON THE NORTHEAST END OF OAHU. A PILOT REALLY WANTS TO GET OUT OVER THE EDGE QUICKLY AT "DRY" AND INTO THE SMOOTH AIR. THE HIGHER TERRAIN LEFT OF LAUNCH AND THE LOWER TERRAIN TO THE RIGHT OF LAUNCH WILL SWITCH THE STRAIGHT IN WIND TO A LEFT CROSSWIND. CONCENTRATING ON WHAT YOUR LEFT TIP IS DOING IS THE BEST TIP TO GIVE A VISITING PILOT. WITH VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS BLOWN LAUNCHES TO THE LEFT ARE RARE. THE BEST LAUNCH IS TO POWER DOWN TO THE END OF THE LAUNCH PICKING UP AS MUCH SPEED AS YOU CAN KEEPING THE DOWNTUBES PULLED IN AGAINST YOUR SHOULDERS HOPEFULLY UNTIL THE LAST STEP. THE PILOT WANTS NO ONE TOUCHING THE GLIDER WHILE CALLING, CLEAR!" THE VERY LAST THING A PILOT WANTS IS TO YELL CLEAR AND HAVE SOMEONE HOLDING DOWN ON A WIRE...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=162893
Crash on Launch

Launches blown to the right are common at that site.

I've never heard of one blown to the left.

[Tad Eareckson]

The ALL CAPS being the best way Bill could figure out how to differentiate my quoted from his original text. So let's take the liberty of making it LEGIBLE:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=822
US Hawks Hook-In Verification Poll

Bill Cummings - 2011/11/14 03:48:23 UTC

It's not a smooth twanger launch like on the northeast end of Oahu. A pilot really wants to get out over the edge quickly at "dry" and into the smooth air. The higher terrain left of launch and the lower terrain to the right of launch will switch the straight in wind to a left crosswind. Concentrating on what your left tip is doing is the best tip to give a visiting pilot. With very few exceptions blown launches to the left are rare. The best launch is to power down to the end of the launch picking up as much speed as you can keeping the downtubes pulled in against your shoulders hopefully until the last step. The pilot wants no one touching the glider while calling, clear!" The very last thing a pilot wants is to yell clear and have someone holding down on a wire.

Yeah, thanks. I'd totally forgotten that exchange and wouldn't have connected it to the Alamogordo launch if I hadn't.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57483
Crash on Launch

Leading Edge - 2018/10/23 15:35:27 UTC

Launches blown to the right are common at that site.

I've never heard of one blown to the left.

Thought for a bit that Leading Edge might have been a Bill alias. But it isn't and we haven't yet IDed this guy.

Both nice quotes with respect to the mission of this topic.

With very few exceptions blown launches to the left are rare.

And the very few exceptions in which launches blown to the left are quite common. Well stated, Bill.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1186
D. Straub's Politics=Gun Grabbing, Constitution/Baby Killing

Bill Cummings - 2013/02/19 02:43:00 UTC

No one should confuse me with someone that has been exposed to higher education. I avoided that style of incarceration like the plague.

Keep up the great work.

So we've established that blown launches at this easy Dry Canyon ramp in strong easy straight in air are common as dirt - the vast majority of them to the right and thus because they're being started from too far back.

And even in the crappiest tow operations on the planet - any flavor you wanna name including foot launch - AREN'T crashing gliders at anything remotely approaching this rate. The highest tow crash rates we're gonna see are Standard Aerotow Weak Link safety increasing inconveniences and 99.9 percent of those are gonna be straight and level imperfectly timed flares on the Happy Acres putting greens from which virtually all tow operations are conducted often after the gliders have climbed enough to make the towing issue totally irrelevant.

[Tad Eareckson]

More Davis Show semiliterate Ben Reese drivel...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57483
Crash on Launch

Ben Reese - 2018/10/24 08:13:58 UTC

Re: Ring those wires...

Of course it's PIC, but this wireman should have recommended moving out and down on the launch more.

His perspective view was more panoramic and obvious right wing behind lift zone..
The pilot did not have that view. I never saw him look at his wing tips...

If your going to assist then assist properly...

But as I said prior, ultimate responsibility lies with the pilot...

So mostly we agree as would 99% of educated and experienced pilots.

The truth is that if the pilot had handled his glider himself with the wireman just monitoring and ready to hold the wires this may have been avoided.

Both failed to put the glider in proper position for launch..

So both failed in my opinion.

It is a valuable and classic failure to analyze.

An experienced pilot would have aborted before dropping his right wing.

Note the billow in left wing just before running.

Ya gotta feel that!

I also think with all the aero towing pilots are forgetting foot launched skills.

Of course it's PIC, but this wireman should have recommended moving out and down on the launch more.

Or maybe the u$hPa 2017 Instructor of the Year should've ordered them to move in and up on the launch more. Who can really say for sure? One thing's for sure though - he certainly wasn't starting from a sweet spot.

His perspective view was more panoramic and obvious right wing behind lift zone..

Is that supposed to be a sentence? I'm guessing yes 'cause you've got two periods at its end.

The pilot did not have that view. I never saw him look at his wing tips...

Why should he have? He had two u$hPa qualified assistants with better perspectives on what was going on signaling him that he was totally good to go.

If your going to assist then assist properly...

Just like if your going to write something then write properly.

But as I said prior, ultimate responsibility lies with the pilot...

And u$hPa will knock three bucks off your annual membership fee every time you repeat that.

So mostly we agree as would 99% of educated and experienced pilots.

Yeah, this one's all about educated and experienced pilots. And the other one percent aren't permitted to post anything on The Davis Show.

The truth is that if the pilot had handled his glider himself with the wireman just monitoring and ready to hold the wires this may have been avoided.

Any comment on:

Hadley Robinson

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Yeah, that's too dangerous for your nose man down there. Too dangerous for the nose man down there.

Just kidding.

Both failed to put the glider in proper position for launch..

And totally ignored the guy behind the camera.

So both failed in my opinion.

Are you even capable of counting to three?

It is a valuable and classic failure to analyze.

Something else we can all learn from.

An experienced pilot would have aborted before dropping his right wing.

- He didn't drop his right wing, asshole. His left wing was lifting and his right wing was going down no matter what.
- There was zero possibility of this one being aborted once he'd initiated.
- Why was this an experience issue?

Note the billow in left wing just before running.

- Exactly.
- Duh.

Ya gotta feel that!

Feel what? If there'd been anything to feel he'd have needed to apply torque to counter. And he wasn't applying any torque.

I also think with all the aero towing pilots are forgetting foot launched skills.

(Thank you, God.) OH! So FOOT launching - which is what everyone and his dog does on Day One, Flight One on the training hill or scooter tow - requires SKILL. But proning out on a launch dolly in the middle of a Happy Acres putting green with the wings locked level and the pitch set such that the glider will find its own trim when things get moving - DOESN'T.

And here I was thinking that due to all the complexity of aerotowing you needed to be a solid Two with lotsa tandem training before you even thought about soloing AT. Thanks so much for setting us all straight on that.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57483
Crash on Launch

Swift - 2018/10/24 16:23:56 UTC

Ben Reese - 2018/10/24 08:13:58 UTC

I also think with all the aero towing pilots are forgetting foot launched skills.

Ouch. That stings a little.

Ben Reese - 2018/10/26 05:25:03 UTC

Not meant to be picking on tow pilots, just an observation and personal opinion which can't be proved or disproved..

Bull fucking shit.

The main lesson here is that all present and assisting should take their role seriously.

All two present. Official u$hPa protocol standards require that we pay no attention to the asshole behind the camera who countermanded the decision of the two guys on the ramp to move the glider down to a safe launch position.

There are twelve "contributors" to this moronic Davis Show sixteen post thread: Davis Straub, Angelo Mantas, Jim Gaar, Kendall, Wazungy, Leading Edge, Wazungy, Ben Reese, Phil Sergent, Swift, Joe Faust, Mawtmk. There's only one post - the first of Idiot Ben's four - that even acknowledges the existence of the asshole behind the camera who's the primary culprit in this career ending fiasco.

I thought about this before I commented..

Amazing. So how can we tell the difference between the comments about which you've thought before posting and the one's you haven't? I'm guessing it's the latter one's that'll come closer to making some kind of sense.

So I have a confession to make..

Your head was stepped on by a Clydesdale three days after your birth?

If I had a wingman or wireman assisting...

A WINGman OR a WIREman. And a WIREman obviously means a NOSEman in this post - 'cause the only other place to put somebody in this situation would be the tail. And that would be even more moronic than having someone on the nose. And the obvious implication here is that nose / wing... Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I could very easily accept their judgement instead of my own.

You'd have a hard time going wrong accepting anybody's judgment on anything instead of your own.

But I have to accept all the blame for my result..

And is there anyone out there to accept all or any of the blame for your existence?

That is dumb, referring to myself.

Nah. "Dumb" means "temporarily unable or unwilling to speak". That's certainly what we'd wish for but the reality is the polar and extreme opposite.

So I will really take responsibility for my launch and the help I am offered and may need.

So apparently you've never helped anyone else launch. I have and if I ever pulled the kinda moronic shit that the two assholes at launch with Mitch did I would certainly blame myself and I one hundred percent guarantee you that five hundred percent of the viewers of the video would be calling for my head to be served up on a platter. (Anybody care to take issue with that take? Didn't think so.)

Take more time on the launch without my wing analyzing the obstacles and conditions.

My God! We didn't realize how much the nose man would've been endangered down there! As it was I'm not sure we really moved back far enough.

This is the value of the video and the honesty of the pilot for posting this which reminds us all,

- Not to mention the nauseating DIShonesty of the motherfucker behind the camera in his single post anywhere - the one on the video.
- Yes, We ALL benefitted from the posting of this video, Could've happened to any one of us,

Pilots and helpers to take this all very serious and know what you are doing.

Another great sentence, Ben. But shouldn't you have used TWO periods at its end?