Zack C - 2012/08/18 16:33:27 UTC
Nothin' in the SOPs about 130 or Greenspot!
Yeah there is.
Federal Aviation Administration - 2004/07/27
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 91-GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES
Subpart D-Special Flight Operations
Section 91.309
- Towing: Gliders and unpowered ultralight vehicles.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle unless-
- (1) The pilot in command of the towing aircraft is qualified under Section 61.69 of this chapter;
- (2) The towing aircraft is equipped with a tow-hitch of a kind, and installed in a manner, that is approved by the Administrator;
- (3) The towline used has breaking strength not less than 80 percent of the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle and not more than twice this operating weight. However, the towline used may have a breaking strength more than twice the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle if-
-- (i) A safety link is installed at the point of attachment of the towline to the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle with a breaking strength not less than 80 percent of the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle and not greater than twice this operating weight;
-- (ii) A safety link is installed at the point of attachment of the towline to the towing aircraft with a breaking strength greater, but not more than 25 percent greater, than that of the safety link at the towed glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle end of the towline and not greater than twice the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle;
- (4) Before conducting any towing operation within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport, or before making each towing flight within such controlled airspace if required by ATC, the pilot in command notifies the control tower. If a control tower does not exist or is not in operation, the pilot in command must notify the FAA flight service station serving that controlled airspace before conducting any towing operations in that airspace; and
- (5) The pilots of the towing aircraft and the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle have agreed upon a general course of action, including takeoff and release signals, airspeeds, and emergency procedures for each pilot.
(b) No pilot of a civil aircraft may intentionally release a towline, after release of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle, in a manner that endangers the life or property of another.
[Doc. No. 18834, 54 FR 34308, 1989/08/18, as amended by Amdt. 91-227, 56 FR 65661, Dec. 17, 1991; Amdt. 91-282, 69 FR 44880, 2004/07/27]
So as of 2004/07/27 there's an FAA regulation which - for the first time in the history of hang gliding anywhere - establishes a minimum weak link rating - which, for all intents and purposes - is considerably higher than idiot USHGA's original MAXIMUM weak link rating - makes it illegal for me and every heavier solo to fly two point on that damnable piece of fishing line.
And when you consider that it blows left and right all the time on light medium gliders straight and level in smooth air at around 125 pounds towline it really outlaws it for everybody.
But nobody tells me - a dues paying, magazine receiving, rated and active AT pilot - and Ridgely Greenspot hell continues unabated for me and everyone else trying to get to the front of the line and release altitude.
On 2005/09/03 Jeremiah Thompson - along with his idiot "instructor" - dies behind an idiot high tug with an idiot low - and clearly illegal - weak link.
On 2005/10/05 his family files suit against Hang Glide Chicago but there's a whitewash/coverup and the suit is dropped.
On 2006/03/15 the slimeballs at USHGA - 'cause they know they've got a serious liability problem - issue a bullshit ass covering "safety" advisory:
http://www.ushpa.aero/advisory.asp?id=1
with a mild suggestion that...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01
Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
...not every problem behind the tug can be most effectively fixed by the asshole up front handing the glider the rope - but going to great conspicuous pains to omit any mention of the weak link which triggered the two hundred foot plummet.
Fortunately for all the Flight Park Mafia whatever's-going-on-back-there-I-can-fix-it-by-giving-you-the-rope assholes, however, this advisory includes a clause which states that...
Understand that we are not asking if you agree with the safety notice, but that you have read it and understand what it says.
...the participant need not accept USHGA's perception that a mushing glider can go down like a fucking brick...
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03
NEVER CUT THE POWER...
Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually
...if the power is abruptly cut, that USHGA has the highest respect for the opinions of its rated pilots, and that if one believes that whatever's going on back there can be fixed by the gift of the rope then that decision will be fully honored - and defended in court by USHGA's lawyer / fatality report screener.
It took me until November of that year to stop being a 130 Pound Greenspot Zombie (even though I had debunked the 260 pound / position-the-knot-so-that-it's-hidden-from-the-main-tension-in-the-link-and-excluded-altogether-from-the-equation crap several years earlier).
Started the jihad the following season - 2007.
On 2009/02/11 then Towing Committee Chairman Gregg Ludwig, who's figured out that I know what I'm talking about on weak links, foolishly asks me to help him revise the AT SOPs to something safe and sane.
On 2009/05/09 - well over a month after the Towing Committee motherfuckers have totally ignored my months of work on the revision at the 2009/03/27-28 BOD meeting and haven't even done me the courtesy of telling me they haven't even bothered to read my revision - I start going into whistleblower mode and USHGA starts doing some major worrying about all the shallow graves out back.
Nobody - 2012/05/31 11:17:01 UTC
Take look at the June issue of the USHPA magazine. You'll find thirteen poorly written and confusing pages of weak link mumbo jumbo written by Drs. Lisa Colletti and Tracy Tillman.
Also included in the article- five photos, four bar graphs and eighteen references.
I suspect the article is an attempt to provide flight park operators and USHPA with justification and ammunition in a legal case filed against them.
In the 2012/06 issue of Hang Gliding magazine Drs. Lisa Colletti and Tracy Tillman publish a load of absolute crap about weak links - including 260 pound single loops of 130 pound Greenspot - in an effort to provide flight park operators and USHPA with justification and ammunition in the event a legal case filed against their criminally negligent asses.
Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06
I'll start with a legal review. The FAA has mandated requirements for weak links in FAR 91.309(a)(3) for civil aircraft towing sailplanes, ultralight gliders, and hang gliders in the US.
Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45 UTC
It's news to me that FAR 91.309 applies to hang gliders, but sure enough, that appears to be the case. 'Unpowered ultralight vehicle' was added to the regulations in September of 2004.
Eight years after the fact this is the first ANYBODY hears that we're supposed to be operating under sailplane regulations.
So about three weeks after Dr. Trisa Tilletti has softened the crap out of everyone's brain with their bullshit article they publish the latest set of their bullshit SOPs.
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2012/06/20
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
12. Hang Gliding Aerotow
-C. USHPA Aerotow Equipment Guidelines
So everything following covering all of the equipment is a GUIDELINE - not an actual REGULATION. 'Cause everybody knows that regulation stifles the kind of innovation that we get from all the tow parks - who've devoted tremendous resources towards perfecting aerotowing for almost twenty years - and gifted and talented individuals like Bob Kuczewski.
04. Weak links must be used in accordance with 14 CFR 91.309(a)(3).
Well, not really MUST. We are talking GUIDELINES here.
USHPA recommends that a nominal 1G (combined operating weight of the glider and pilot) weak link be used, when placed at one end of a hang glider pilot's V-bridle; or about 1.5-2G if placed at the apex of the tow bridle or directly in-line with the tow rope.
WHAT THE FUCK KINDA SENTENCE IS THAT? You've gotta read it about twenty times to even get some vague idea of what was going on in the author's deranged mind.
USHPA recommends...
- Who the hell is "USHPA"?
- Upon WHAT is that idiot recommendation based? A nice round number that Donnell pulled out of his ass thirty-two and a half years prior under the idiot assumptions that it would prevent lockouts and stalls?
...that a nominal 1G...
Fuck nominal, de jure and de facto weak links. Sailplanes have done just fine without Tilletti mumbo jumbo bullshit weak links - so can we.
...(combined operating weight of the glider and pilot) weak link be used...
Fuck the combined operating weight of the glider and pilot.
- There's also a harness, parachute, helmet, clothing, instruments, water, packing gear... to consider.
- Weak links aren't about flying weights. Weak links are about glider capacities. Any asshole who talks about flying weights is trying to use weak links as lockout preventers or limiters.
- Take a minimally loaded Sport 2 155 - flying weight 210 pounds - USHGA recommended weak link 210 pounds. Max certified operating weight is 310 pounds. Minimum FAA legal weak link 248 pounds. So USHGA's recommendation is that you violate the FAA minimum by 38 pounds, that you fly at 0.68 percent of max certified operating weight. But that's OK... We're just really talking about guidelines, recommendations, opinions here.
...when placed at one end of a hang glider pilot's V-bridle;
The fucking FAA regulation doesn't say to put the fucking weak link at ONE end of the fucking hang glider pilot's V - by which Dr. Trisa Tilletti means two point - bridle. The fucking FAA regulation says:
A safety link is installed AT THE POINT OF ATTACHMENT OF THE TOWLINE TO THE GLIDER...
There's a reason it doesn't say to put it at ONE end of the hang glider pilot's V-bridle:
Towing Aloft - 1998/01
I witnessed a tug pilot descend low over trees. His towline hit the trees and caught. His weak link broke but the bridle whipped around the towline and held it fast. The pilot was saved by the fact that the towline broke!
It's so that on the extremely rare occasion on which you actually NEED the fucking weak link you actually HAVE the fucking weak link.
You can accomplish that by following the fucking regulation and putting the goddam weak link at the point of attachment of the towline to the glider's bridle, WHICH NOBODY DOES, or - like I said in the magazine over fifteen years ago and wrote into my SOPs proposal - treat the bridle as an extension of the towline, put a compliant weak link on the top end, and put something heavier but under two Gs BELOW the tow ring.
But, since this concept is miles above the comprehension level of Dr. Trisa Tilletti...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/549
Weaklinks/bridles; was: high wire act world news
Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2001/05/16 15:14:55 UTC
We (and many others) do not recommend using a second weaklink on the non-released end of the bridle. That weaklink is just as likely to break as the one on the other end. If the lower weak link breaks, the bridle could get caught in the towline ring, and pull the glider from the 'biner or keel, causing it to tuck. The other weaklink (on top) may not break prior to the tuck.
The weaklink should be on the released end of the bridle, and the bridle should release from the top. That way, if the bridle does get caught on the ring, it is pulling from the body, rather than from the glider, and the glider may still be controllable--in which case you can use your secondary release (or hook knife if that fails) to release.
...(and many others) they just tell you to go ahead, violate the FAA regulations, and configure such that the focal point of a safe towing system is, when using Industry Standard equipment, taken out of the equation...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC
Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.
...over half the time in the situations in which it's most needed.
It's EXACTLY like Steve Seibel's idiot fucking Wallaby Release:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links
Steve Seibel - 2012/08/18 16:22:36 UTC
The high G-load made it harder to for me to get my hand quickly to the release, and the glider rolled to quite a steep bank, and the loads rose much higher than I intended before I hit the handle.
Dr. Trisa Tilletti and the rest of the Flight Park Mafia just LOVE configuring things such that the more one's life is dependent upon a piece of equipment the more it's likely it is to become inoperable and/or taken out of the equation altogether. I one hundred percent guarantee you that if these assholes designed the landing lights systems for conventional aircraft they'd be solar powered.
...or about 1.5-2G if placed at the apex of the tow bridle or directly in-line with the tow rope.
Or about one and a half to two Gs if configured in compliance with the FAA regulation. Or, if you put a:
- 0.8 G weak link at the end of the towline, 0.8 Gs
- 1.0 G weak link at the end of the towline, 1.0 Gs
- 1.2 G weak link at the end of the towline, 1.2 Gs
- 1.4 G weak link at the end of the towline, 1.4 Gs
Thanks, Trisa, I think I'm starting to understand this concept.
The actual strength of the weak link used by the hang glider pilot must be appropriate for the operation and have a breaking strength between 80% and 200% MCOW (max. cert. operating weight) of the glider, in terms of direct towline tension.
Right, Trisa. 'Cause, at different operations gliders have different load capacities. Same way...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4592
Weaklinks
Tracy Tillman - 2005/02/08 19:16:10 UTC
The sailplane guys have been doing this for a long time, and there are many hang glider pilots and quite a few tug pilots who don't understand what the sailplane guys have learned over the years. It certainly would help if hang glider towing methods and training were standardized to the degree that they are in the sailplane world.
...it works for different sailplane operations.
At the Columbus operation...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Zack C - 2011/08/31 17:38:50 UTC
And not everyone tows at flight parks. At our local club, I use a 1.3 G weak link and the tug uses a ~600 lb one. I'm quite happy with that arrangement.
...1.3 Gs is appropriate and everybody's quite happy.
At a Flight Park Mafia operation...
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.
Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/07/19 14:50:52 UTC
And yes, get behind me with a "strong link" and I will not tow you.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC
I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC
Hahahahahahahahaha
Oh that's just rich!
Riiiiiight... it's my attention span at issue here....
and I'm the one that's arrogant!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
No, I'm not being nice. No, I do not feel the need to be nice. You're trying to convince people to be less safe. I don't want to be on the other end of the rope when someone listening to this drivel smashes in.
I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up. You're not the only one on the line. I didn't ask to be a test pilot. I can live with your inconvenience.
Please tell me again what's wrong with the wheel? Why you keep trying to reinvent it?
...THE weak link that's appropriate for the operation and has a breaking strength between 80% and 200% MCOW (max. cert. operating weight) of the glider, in terms of direct towline tension - at the sole discretion of the tow park operator, meet director, tug driver, or cabal of tug drivers - is, as it's ALWAYS BEEN and ALWAYS WILL BE, the loop of 130 pound Greenspot that...
This article was peer-reviewed and approved for publication by the USHPA Towing Committee.
...Dr. Trisa Tilletti, the USHPA Towing Committee, the editor of Hang Gliding magazine, and the USHPA Board of Directors...
Based on several decades of experience and hundreds of thousands of tows conducted by numerous aerotow operators across the county, the de facto standard has become use of a 260 lb. weak link made as a loop of 130 lb. green spot IGFA Dacron braided fishing line attached to one end of the pilot's V-bridle.
...have all certified as having a breaking strength of 260 pounds - pretty much around the middle of the FAA legal range for most solo gliders.
And, as it's ALWAYS BEEN and ALWAYS WILL BE, if you've got bench test data showing the loop of 130 pound Greenspot blows at around 130 pounds, puts you off the bottom of the FAA legal range, and has a high probability of dropping you back on the launch cart and wanna fly something that ACTUALLY blows at 260 pounds, you can go fuck yourself 'cause...
Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06
We could get into details of lab testing weak links and bridles, but this article is already getting long. That would be a good topic for an article in the future. Besides, with our backgrounds in formal research, you and I both know that lab tests may produce results with good internal validity, but are often weak in regard to external validity--meaning lab conditions cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exists in the big, real world.
...your data has shit in the way of external validity and cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exist in the big, real world of aerotowing from several decades of experience and hundreds of thousands of tows conducted by numerous aerotow operators across the county.
If you want your odds of clearing the runway to be a little better than...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC
We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year.
...zero out of six...
Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot).
...maybe you can get a green from the de facto FAA official to fly within the lower third of the legal range, without - if you're lucky - having to promise to suck his dick after you get your glider put away for the day.
But, of course, DO make sure you always inform him when you're exercising this privilege...
He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).
...so that he can adjust his flying such that it's less likely to put you into a lockout or swap his weak link down to make sure the tow tension never exceeds his comfort level (solo - single loop, tandem - double loop).
The weak link used at the tow plane end of the towline must be stronger, but not more than 25% stronger, than the strength of the weak link used at the glider end of the towline.
Yeah.
http://ozreport.com/5.126
Flytec Dragonfly
USAFlytec - 2001/07/14
Steve Kroop - Russell Brown - Bob Lane - Jim Prahl - Campbell Bowen
The tail section of the Dragonfly is designed so that it can accept in-line as well as lateral loads. Furthermore the mast extension, which is part of the tow system, is designed to break away in the event of excessive in-line or lateral loads. The force required to cause a breakaway is roughly equivalent to the force required to break the double weaklink used on the tail bridle.
http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Aerotow FAQ
Quest Air Hang Gliding
For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 18:54:27 UTC
I'm confused. I never said the tug's ass was endangered. That's why we use 3strand at the tug's end. Using 4 strand can rip things off (it's happened).
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)
Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC
On the tow plane we use 1-1/2 loops (3 strands) of 130# line.
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/20 22:25:38 UTC
Something to bear in mind... the tug's weaklink is three strand.
For clarity... A normal single loop weaklink would be considered two. A tandem double loop is considered four.
In the tandem setup, the "weaklink" in the system is at the tug end, not the glider.
Ya'll seem to be missing this.
Once you go beyond three strand... you're not using a weaklink. If the weaklink goes, you're getting the rope.
Paul found this out the hard way in Texas.
Theory's wonderful and all, but reality is not forgiving.
Ask yourself... are you willing to bet your life on your theory?
Dress accordingly.
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/23 19:42:44 UTC
The tug uses 3 strand and so all this talk about using a stronger one is academic.
You don't get to have one that's equal or stronger.
See we've got a system that has an extremely solid track record.
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/23 22:28:30 UTC
If you can find one, more power to you.
Just keep in mind if you do, you need to be weaker than the tug's link... not equal to. You will need to talk it over with any tug pilot that you tow behind. Anything less is unethical. And just as you have the right to refuse a tow from any tugger, they have the right to refuse to tow you... for any reason what so ever.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3648
Oh no! more on weak links
Carlos Weill - 2008/11/30 19:24:09 UTC
The tug weak link broke off at 1000ft, in less than a second the glider was at 500ft.
Right.
06. The purpose of the weak link is to protect the tow equipment, and may not prevent lockouts or other abnormal flight conditions.
What else may it not do, Trisa? May it not prevent:
- injury beyond:
-- four broken ribs and a larynx after a blown dolly launch?
-- a broken shoulder and bashed up face after you snap off a dolly wheel in a hole in the Florida Ridge runway?
- one from having a glider destroyed and/or being paralyzed from the neck down if the tug driver doesn't notice that he's being dragged?
- the wings from being torn off the glider when one slams into the propwash of a 914 Dragonfly after a Mach 5 takeoff?
But it OCCASIONALLY WILL prevent lockouts and other abnormal flight conditions - just as it OFTEN WILL prevent successful launches, straight and level flight in turbulent and smooth air, and any chance of survival for a low glider going into a steep climb.
So because it MAY prevent lockouts or other abnormal flight conditions, especially for total assholes...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links
Steve Seibel - 2012/08/18 16:22:36 UTC
The high G-load made it harder to for me to get my hand quickly to the release, and the glider rolled to quite a steep bank, and the loads rose much higher than I intended before I hit the handle.
...who use total shit for equipment, the actual APPROPRIATE strength of the weak link used by the hang glider pilot will be determined by the operation to be...
Lockout Mountain Flight Park - 2009/07/12
The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.
...that of a single loop of 130 pound Greenspot (at this time).
Nothin' in the SOPs about 130 or Greenspot!
EVERYTHING in this despicable fraud, manipulation, and abuse of power...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1184
aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates
Larry Jorgensen - 2011/02/17 13:37:47 UTC
It did not come from the FAA, it came from a USHPA Towing Committee made up of three large aerotow operations that do tandems for hire.
Appalling.
...is about maintaining the ability to force gliders up on 130 pound Greenspot, keep the Dragonflies on triple-strand to protect their tow mast breakaways, and keep the Towing Committee Chairmen, tow park operators, tug drivers, tandem instructors, and excellent book authors from having to admit that they're all a bunch of brain dead, incompetent, gutless, corrupt, evil, lying, criminally negligent, serial killing shits.
