Releases

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34306
Lockout musings/ thoughts/ questions

Steve Seibel - 2013/10/20 05:41:27 UTC

With a keel attachment point forward of the CG: let's say the glider is displaced to the left of the tug. The towline is pulling the nose to point to the right of the actual flight path. The flight path at this early stage in the potential lockout is still more or less parallel the direction the tug is flying. The direction of "slip" is technically to the left, I suppose, but this is kind of an awkward way of saying what is really going on. The glider's flight path is aligned with the tug's flight path but the glider's nose is yawed to the right of the glider's flight path, to point toward the tug. In my mind there's no question that this can happen to some degree and must create some amount of left roll torque, my question in #1 was simply "is this significant, to the point that sometimes a 3-point tow system will experience a lockout where a pro-tow system would not?"

What are people's practical experiences? I'm sure that a 3-point tow system damps out yaw-roll oscillations. But if turbulent air displaces you far to the side of the towplane, is it possible that you might have a better shot at avoiding a lockout with a pro-tow system?

- Towed hang gliders are roll unstable.

- Your control authority can be overwhelmed by a thermal blast - like it can in free flight 'cept worse.

- If you're rolled away from the tug there's a point at which you ain't coming back and things are probably gonna be happening head spinningly fast.

- If you take a hand off the basetube to attempt to blow a release within easy reach count on things going to hell head swimmingly fast times four.

- Weak link strength throughout the legal range won't make any significant difference with respect to the outcome.

- If you lock out high you've got nothing to worry about.

- If you lock out low you're probably gonna die - just like if you lock out in free flight just after coming off the ramp or low over the LZ.

-- The things that give you edges in towing are:
--- keeping both hands on the basetube at all times
--- ability to stay on and get off upon your call
--- speed

- ALL Industry Standard releases deprive you of the ability to:
-- keep both hands on the basetube at all times
-- get off upon your call

- Rooney Links deprive you of any expectation of staying on tow - especially in critical situations.

- Rooney caliber tug drivers deprive you of any expectation of staying on tow in critical situations.

- Pro toad bridles deprive you of just about all of the glider's certified speed range over normal tow speed - and thus a lot of your roll authority and ability to hold the nose down.

- Nobody's ever been scratched because he was flying with a:
-- release that didn't stink on ice
-- two point bridle
-- heavy weak link
-- tug driver who kept the glider on tow

- People have been killed because they were flying with:
- releases within easy reach
- pro toad bridles
- Rooney Links
- tug drivers making good decisions in the interest of the safety of the gliders

That's all the math you need to do, Steve. You're wasting your and everyone else's time with anything below, above, other than that.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29771
keel tow point

Tiberiu Szollosi - 2013/08/21 15:44:47 UTC

Have an aerotow question, what sort of knotting do you use to tie on to the keel?

Any pictures would be great

Mike Bilyk - 2013/08/21 21:00:01 UTC
Crestline

Instead of asking a forum a serious question, I would ask my instructor at the flying field.

Please don't hurt/kill yourself listening to a keyboard pilot.

- Shouldn't any AT rated pilot be qualified to properly/safely install a two point release assembly on a glider?

- Since all manufacturers are selling their gliders knowing full well that they'll be aerotowed shouldn't there be instructions and illustrations in all the owners' manuals for properly/safely installing two point release assemblies? (Shouldn't there also be specifications for weak links for all the models and recommendations for safe release assemblies?)

- Wouldn't there be one best knot for this purpose across the board? You don't find much in the way of different knots for the same application on sailboats. Why should it be any different on hang gliders?

- Are different instructors using/teaching different knots for this application?

- If different instructors are using/teaching different knots for this application isn't it rather fucking likely that some of them are wrong?

- Why isn't an issue this critical covered in the USHGA Aerotowing SOPs and Guidelines?

- If an issue this critical isn't covered in the USHGA Aerotowing SOPs and Guidelines then what where did you get your idiotic notion that some asshole certified by USHGA to sign off AT ratings has any better clue what he's doing with knots than your average jerk off the street?

- Shouldn't the glider manufacturer be the best authority on this issue? Some of them, for example, at least know what the function of the spreader...

Wills Wing
U2 145 and 160
Owner / Service Manual

U2 Set-Up Procedure

Verify that the main hang loop spreader bar is positioned just below the bottom surface.

...is supposed to be. And that's pretty fucking obviously...

1504
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2831/9623912388_98cf582742_o.png


... a lot better than the flight parks, schools, dealers, instructors can manage.

Wills Wing was (is?) shipping glider's with a fucking BOWLINE being used to secure the VG system. You don't gotta be no rocket scientist to know...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22722
VG broke in Flight. Equipment failure

Wing Man - 2011/08/03 21:35:42 UTC
California

So I was up at Indian Valley this past weekend and had a shocking little experience. Five seconds after launch I felt what was like a brick hit my glider. Quickly, I thought of my hang lines but put that out of my head because I ALWAYS do a proper hang check and do the visual check myself.

So, the first corrective decision was to get the hell away from the mountain. So I go to pull on the VG... which just pulls and pulls with no resistance. Ah Ha! Problem found!

Now I am thinking of my preflight and I always check all the pulley connections and the ropes that connect the pulley box to the cross bar. This is what starts sticking out in my mind. That part is usually pulled tight and then rests on top of the screw that has a Phillip's head for that hinge that connects at the two cross bars. This has always drawn a concern to me because I imagine it causing wear and then eventually breaking through the rope. So every time I preflight I move it to the outside of the screw head. In doing so I am able to check the knot and make sure that it is secure.

When I got to the LZ I checked and it was this rope connection to the cross bars that came undone.

Talking with Wills Wing I was told that they have never heard of this coming undone before and most likely, since the glider has thirty hours on it, the knot was not fully seated and the tails that finish of the Bowline knot were not long enough and while the knot was seating it slipped past the tails allowing it to undo itself.

Craig Hassan - 2011/08/03 22:33:45 UTC

Didn't I read that bowlines are temporary knots and that you should not be used on that line? Thought it was a WW tb.

Wing Man - 2011/08/03 22:45:32 UTC

I spoke with Steve at WW and he told me they use a Bowline.

...what a really crappy idea that is. And Wills wing believes that a failure of that knot...

Wills Wing Technical Bulletin - TB20050620
Rope Maintenance and Inspection - Xbar Ball Center to VG Bock Connection
2005/06/20 - Issue Date
2007/05/15 - Rev Date

If this rope were to fail in flight, the crossbar would move forward unrestricted, until the sweep wire became tight - thus placing a shock load on the sweep wire. Although we have received no reports of in-flight failures of the sweep wire on any Wills Wing glider, we have seen anecdotal reports of sweep wire failure under shock load on other gliders, indicating that such a failure is possible.

...has the potential to kill you just as dead as it would in a climbing situation. And you don't gotta be no rocket scientist to know that climbers don't use Bowlines and the reason they don't use Bowlines.

So you tell me why Tiberiu's likely to get a worse answer to his question by throwing it out on a forum that any member of the public can read than by asking some Trisa, Rooney, Lauren grade shithead at some dump like Cloud 9, Ridgely, Quest.

- And, hell, according to everyone in The Industry it's not all that important to have a keel attachment point anyway...

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report

Steve Wendt - 2005/05/29

Holly for some reason chose to fly her Litesport, she has always towed it with proper releases and weak links and usually seeked advice from me when unsure of something.

This time she couldn't find her v-bridle top line with her weak link installed for her priimary keel release. She chose to tow anyway, and just go from the shoulders, which to my knowledge she had never done before, nor had she been trained to understand potential problems. This could have been done with a short clinic and if we thought it a possibility, been done under supervised conditions in the evening air.

After a reasonable bit of two point experience anyone can be easily trained to tow perfectly safely one point in a short clinic.

And if you should find yourself towing one point as a consequence of a two point bridle wrap...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/549
Weaklinks/bridles; was: high wire act world news

Tracy Tillman - 2001/05/16 15:14:55 UTC

We (and many others) do not recommend using a second weaklink on the non-released end of the bridle. That weaklink is just as likely to break as the one on the other end. If the lower weak link breaks, the bridle could get caught in the towline ring, and pull the glider from the 'biner or keel, causing it to tuck. The other weaklink (on top) may not break prior to the tuck.

The weaklink should be on the released end of the bridle, and the bridle should release from the top. That way, if the bridle does get caught on the ring, it is pulling from the body, rather than from the glider, and the glider may still be controllable--in which case you can use your secondary release (or hook knife if that fails) to release.

...you don't even need the short clinic. You can fly along just fine with one hand while you're reaching for and trying to pry open your very very reliable bent pin release with no weak link limitation on the tension and...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..

Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.

No stress because I was high.

...when that doesn't work, pulling out your hook knife and hacking away at whatever you need to. So I really don't understand why it is...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?

Jim Rooney - 2010/05/30 10:54:17 UTC

Toma-y-to Toma-h-to

Back when Tad had his panties in a bunch, I decided to test things myself... it's easy to do... have a blast...

I took a single barrel release and hung it from the ceiling. I made a loop in a rope that allowed me to put my foot in the rope and be suspended an inch above the floor.

I opened the release.
Both open fine.
Curved pin was a little stiffer.

I filed it under Big Fing Deal.
I routinely use curved pin barrels to D-Bag.

...that you have your panties in a bunch anyway.

[Steve Davy]

http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Article.asp?reqArticleName=AerotowRelease
Aerotow Release Attachment Points for Wills Wing Gliders
by Rob Kells

From the experts:

We find that the easiest way to secure the top release to the keel is to use a piece of spectra or perlon line. Start by making a loop around the keel and secure it with an overhand knot and safety half hitch in the desired location. Tie the other end of the line around the king post base secured with a bowline knot and safety half hitch, making sure that the forward loop will position the top release in the desired location.
Use a rapid link to attach the top release webbing to the line. This will make it easy to remove the release.

What a shoddy way to "secure" a release mechanism to an aircraft.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4592
Weaklinks

Tracy Tillman - 2005/02/08 19:16:10 UTC

The sailplane guys have been doing this for a long time, and there are many hang glider pilots and quite a few tug pilots who don't understand what the sailplane guys have learned over the years. It certainly would help if hang glider towing methods and training were standardized to the degree that they are in the sailplane world.

Is that the way the sailplane guys secure and remove their releases, Trisa?

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

What we have covered in this article is practical information and knowledge gleaned from the real world of aerotowing, developed over decades and hundreds of thousands of tows by experts in the field. This information has practical external validity. Hopefully, someone will develop methods and technology that work better than what we are using as standard practice today. Like the methods and technology used today, it is unlikely that the new technology will be dictated onto us as a de jure standard. Rather, to become a de facto standard, that new technology will need to be made available in the marketplace, proven in the real world, and then embraced by our sport.

I'm a little confused here, Trisa.

- About seven years prior to your article you're saying that hang gliding towing doesn't have its shit together anywhere near as well as sailplaning.

- Things have only gotten worse since the introduction of the Dragonfly in 1991:
-- actuator moved from basetube to downtube
-- spinnaker shackle rotated to shift the load from the pivot point to the gate
-- pro towing
-- front end weak link dumbed down to function as tow mast breakaway protector
-- Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney

- And now you're saying that these formerly clueless tug drivers have their shit together so well that we daren't mess with this highly evolved finely tuned system with which they've bestowed us.

So what gives?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30570
Reaching new heights-Towing with MSC

Ryan Brown - 2013/12/31 03:40:42 UTC

Hi All,

Here is my highest and longest flight-to-date towing with MSC in Tres Pinos.

Just my spot landings left for H-2. What do you think?

Fer starters...

- What do you think your spot landings will be good for other than qualifying for your Hang Two?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21088
What you wish you'd known then?

Doug Doerfler - 2011/03/02 05:24:44 UTC

Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.

- Did Mission advise you that there's a runway landing option available to qualify for your ratings in lieu of the spots?

- Might the time and effort you're putting into working on spots be better directed towards working on restricted landing field approaches?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX6e3r0ALXY

- Can you cite some evidence that your backup loop and locking carabiner are making things safer?

- Would you be able to safely blow your release in a low level lockout?

- How much lanyard pull is required to blow your two-string release at three hundred pounds towline?

- What are you using for a weak link, what's its purpose, and what's its rating and why are you using that rating?

1:05

I hit some turbulence near the top of the tow and the auto-release did its job.

- What's its job? To take over as Pilot In Command and override your decision to continue the tow?

- Dr. Trisa Tilletti's expectation of the weak link is to...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

We want our weak links to break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent weak link breaks from turbulence. It is the same expectation of performance that we have for the weak links we use for towing sailplanes.

...break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence. It is the same expectation of performance that they have for the weak links they use for towing sailplanes.

So why are you using some piece of shit Birrenator to blow you off whenever you get rocked around a wee bit?

- Are you on board with Peter's strategy of using equipment to...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7066
AT SOPs - proposed revisions

Peter Birren - 2009/05/10 01:33:31 UTC

If you want a truly foolproof release, it's got to be one that eliminates the pilot from the equation with a release that operates automatically.

...eliminate you - as the Pilot In Command - from the equation? If so why don't you just take up parasailing at some oceanside tourist trap?

- Are you expecting this thing to make the right call at the right time and save you from a fatal lockout and not make the wrong call at the wrong time and dump you into...



...a fatal whipstall?

- When do you plan to start landing in environments in which you won't be able to safely come in on the wheels?

[Steve Davy]

Tad,
What are your thoughts on this method of attaching a Street release:

1. Long bury splice* a loop at one end of a length of thousand pound dacron hollow braid line.

2. Drape that line over the keel.

3. Insert both ends of this line though the release rapid link.

4. Run the spliced end back, around the king post base then forward.

5. Complete the loop with a slipped double sheet bend.

6. Safety the slipped bend by inserting the tail though the bite of the slipped bend.

*Run the tail clear out the standing end of the line, cut it off, then whip that end.

Slipped double sheet bend:



Edit: Added photo

[Tad Eareckson]

Sounds OK, BUT...
- We're assuming there's a kingpost.
- I prefer to anchor to a bolt or bolted on tang.

Really pisses me off that not only do the manufacturers refuse to do the job right and build them in but they won't even give us a mounting to help us make a better job of things. What a betrayal of the sport's origins.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.180
Near Fatality Report

Larry Bunner - 2005/08/31

It happened to me.

I had a similar experience to Angelo's report about five years ago. I was aerotowing a Laminar on the light end of the weight range on a thermally day. Just after leaving the cart I started drifting right. I was comfortable at the time and did a minor correction that usually brought me back in line with the tug. However this time the glider drifted further to the right into a lockout at only fifty feet above the ground.

I reached for the release (too slowly) and popped off the line in a wingover. I kept the glider flying and completed the wingover with feet to spare over the ground concluding in a no step landing. After reading Angelo's report I now realize how lucky I was.

I believe I came off of the cart in a thermal, the tug was high and before I could climb up to him the thermal was gone and the line went slack. I pushed out to attempt to climb back up to the tug when I started drifting right. When the slack came out of the line it only exacerbated my attitude resulting in the lockout.

I learned a valuable lesson today just by reading the report and recapitulating an event from long ago.

I reached for the release (too slowly) and popped off the line in a wingover.

Oh. You REACHED FOR THE RELEASE and popped off the line in a wingover. Now where have I heard shit like that before... Oh yeah:

Dennis Pagen - 2005/01

I pulled in all the way, but could see that I wasn't going to come down unless something changed. I hung on and resisted the tendency to roll to the side with as strong a roll input as I could, given that the bar was at my knees.

I didn't want to release, because I was so close to the ground and I knew that the glider would be in a compromised attitude. In addition, there were hangars and trees on the left, which is the way the glider was tending.

By the time we gained about sixty feet I could no longer hold the glider centered - I was probably at a twenty degree bank - so I quickly released before the lockout to the side progressed.

The glider instantly whipped to the side in a wingover maneuver.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Weaklinks

Peter Birren - 2008/10/27 23:41:49 UTC

Imagine if you will, just coming off the cart and center punching a thermal which takes you instantly straight up while the tug is still on the ground. Know what happens? VERY high towline forces and an over-the-top lockout. You'll have both hands on the basetube pulling it well past your knees but the glider doesn't come down and still the weaklink doesn't break (.8G). So you pull whatever release you have but the one hand still on the basetube isn't enough to hold the nose down and you pop up and over into an unplanned semi-loop. Been there, done that... at maybe 200 feet agl.

I kept the glider flying and completed the wingover with feet to spare over the ground concluding in a no step landing. After reading Angelo's report I now realize how lucky I was.

Must've been using one of those stronglinks, huh? A properly applied weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3659
New Lookout Release

Larry Bunner - 2008/12/07 15:42:28 UTC

Tad, man if you could just cut back on the vitriolic statements it might be easier for us to accept what you have to say. I find it difficult to understand your intent. I'd like to upgrade to a better release however if you truly do have one, your rhetoric tends to cloud (in my mind anyway) or distract from the issue to the point where I really don't even want to see what you have to offer.

Fuck you, Larry. You keep flying whatever cheap Industry Standard crap you feel like. I can always use the statistics.

[Steve Davy]

Nice to see how folks that don't have shit for brains are towing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkGcTLAbu7A

[Tad Eareckson]

If only there were some way to switch to a nice Davis mini-barrel system...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28290
Report about fatal accident at Quest Air Hang Gliding

Davis Straub - 2013/02/12 18:11:58 UTC

I think that the argument that has been made is that a stronger weaklink would perhaps have helped by keeping the pilot connected to the tug, a mouth release would have allowed the pilot to get off earlier.

Mouth releases are quite interesting. They allow the pilot to quickly and automatically release early in the tow, say the first three seconds. Something that is quite difficult with a barrel release.

If something bad happens while you are on the cart but not up to flying speed mouth releases are superior. Once you are at flying speed then there is less of an advantage for mouth releases. Still they are quicker to release and you don't have to take you hands off the base tube.

...after about three seconds into the tow. Once you're up to normal flying speed, about Mach 5 in the estimation of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, there's really nothing much bad that can happen to anybody - virtually nothing that can't easily be handled with one hand on the basetube while the easy reach to the release is effected with the other, especially when a proper Davis Link is included in the system.

Note that over the course of the passed couple of decades it's been virtually impossible find an official fatality report in which the accessibility of the release was determined to have been anything of an issue. Just people who thought they could fix bad things and didn't want to start over, made no effort to release, just froze...