landing

[Steve Davy]

Jack has a comment in there about wheels.

He definitely needs to invest in a set of wheels.

[Tad Eareckson]

Crappy job doing my homework. Been doing a lot of digital housekeeping the past few days and my vision tends to get shot to hell late in the day. Brain gets mushy as well. Should've done a search before posting.

Good to see a glimmmer of intelligent life there for a change.

Thanks for the catch.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32369
Cross controlling bad approach & crash on a topless.

Dave Pendzick - 2015/01/26 19:35:01 UTC

Hang glider crash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFr11s0FLD0
Ignacio Galaz - 2015/01/25
dead

This is making the rounds on Facebook & I have not seen it here yet. If you know this guy, he needs a mentor or some more training.

He HAD...

Ignacio Galaz - 92040 - H2 - Rob McKenzie - 2012/11/18 - FL FSL

...some training. If he's CROSS controlling who should we be looking at regarding blame?

I do not think he should be on this glider.

Yeah, let's make it about the glider.

Please help him.

Yeah, let's hound T** at K*** S****** out of the sport, attack him on and ban him from all the forums, denounce him as a troll for posting on his own forum - but let's help this guy.

Mike Harper - 2015/01/26 20:02:47 UTC
Dana Point

That's Ignacio, he is a Crestline pilot. Low time (300 hr)...

Oh. Three hundred hours is LOW TIME. You can get a Master rating with four hundred hours but three is LOW.

...H3 pilot.

1. A Three is ten hours, a Four is seventy-five - but he's a low Three with thirty times the requirement for a Three and four times for a Four. Pull your head out of your ass. Take as much time as you need.

2. He's an astronomically high time Two.

I sold him my U2 160 a year ago.

Damn! Why wasn't he flying that? No fuckin' way he'd have come that close to killing himself on a U2.

He flew for 6 months then bought Joe...

...Rodriguez...

...'s T2C. Considering the field he chose he did all right. But there are way better fields at Elsinore

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/26 20:37:29 UTC

Holy shit. That entire flight was a disaster.

Yeah...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


Right.

Why would anyone sell a T2C to a low-time H3 pilot?

1. Why would anyone sell:
- an aircraft without landing gear
- a Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey "designed" easy reach bent pin piece of shit posing as an aerotow release
- an unhooked launch prevention strategy known to have killed dozens of practitioners
to ANYBODY?

Name me one single person in the history of hang gliding who was killed for the obvious reason that he was on a high performance glider.

2. Yeah Paul. A three hundred hour low-time three. Everybody's just totally fuckin' clueless before hitting five or six at a minimum.

endoxon - 2015/01/26 20:51:42 UTC

Pretty sharp skills to maneuver around all the bushes with plenty of speed, touching ground with Basebar and still get the ship wings level afterwards, just right before crashing it finally...


I rather went for the beach, but sometimes these GoBro Videos are bit misleading due to wide angle lenses.

The beach is CLOSER than it looks on the video. So what's your point?

I don't criticize the pilot, he might had just a bad day. Respect for putting this Online...

Save it. He's gonna pull it. Which means I'm gonna hafta kill a good chunk of a day pulling stills off of it.

...so that we all can learn from it.

Yeah. So much to learn for us all from this one.

Our bad day is maybe just about to come...

Nah. Mine like that was my first mountain flight - 1982/06/17, Potato Hill north of Boone, North Carolina. LZ continued to slope down, didn't know the protocol was to land cross. Crashed to a stop on a fence on the other side of the highway. (Big thanks to Jim Hale - who was supposed to coach both of us Twos - for bailing at the last minute because he suddenly developed a "bad feeling" about the trip. Asshole.)

freeflight - 2015/01/26 21:11:51 UTC

He's lucky he didn't hit that rock, or that truck, or those road signs!!!

It wasn't just LUCK. He didn't do EVERYTHING wrong.

Fletcher - 2015/01/26 21:41:55 UTC

My guess is that a low time H-3 that's already flying a T-2 is not gonna listen to what advice is offered. He already knows everything!

My guess is that anybody who refers to ANYONE who's racked up three hundred hours on a hang glider as "low time" is a total dickhead.

Best to shoot the bonehead that sold him that wing so it doesn't happen again.

Yeah...

- No fuckin' way that could've happened on a Sport 2.

- Mike was fine selling him his U2.

- Anyone who sells anybody a glider is responsible for every bad thing that happens to the purchaser on that glider.

- How 'bout the bonehead who signed Bill Priday off on his Three without ever once teaching him what a hook-in check was or having him comply with USHGA's hook-in check requirement and sold him a Sport 2 - which subsequently landed in pretty good shape without him?

Stupid ought to hurt (and sometimes it does)

So what are you doing to mask the constant pain?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32369
Cross controlling bad approach & crash on a topless.

Jack Barth - 2015/01/26 22:07:29 UTC

Wow

One of the scariest landings I've seen in ages I was there . No one realized he did'nt have a clue...

Yeah, did'nt have the slightest clue at all.

...and he didn't seek input from the locals..

I can sympathize..

He got to the ridge in very good shape and actually climbed above launch which no one else did. All the other pilots knew when to abort their flights and make for the LZ 1 1/2 miles away. as conditions were very minimal and only supportive of sled runs. Very glad to see he didn't require Emergency Services. The firehouse is only a block away.
There is a very viable bailout below the E, itrequires a xwind landing. He ended up in very light into the wind downhill landing. On a T2c never a good situation. Appeared to me he launched with no prior knowledge of the bailouts or what was required to make the primary LZ. As I watched the video it appeared he was about to make the right decision to make a crosswind landing then changed his mind and turned for the highway. His hands got caught up in the rear cables...

...as opposed to the front cables...

...when transitioning which almost had serious repercussions.

Yeah? Show me some videos of people NOT getting their hands caught on the rear wires when transitioning. (Not a bad guess that that was a major factor in the Joe Julik fatality.)

I've seen other pilots pound in for that exact reason.

How many of those were coming down on wheel hostile terrain?

He definitely needs to invest in a set of wheels.

Just him?

Jack Barth - 2015/01/26 22:12:08 UTC

CSS Pilot

From what I saw he used up one of his nine lives. Rule of thumb...

One G weak link. Keeps you from getting into too much trouble.

...always check in with the locals and let them know this is your first flight at the site.

What if you're landing XC?

Especially @ Elsinore After rewatching the vid found I missed the basetube contact with the ground causing a severe yaw...

Adverse, I presume. That's about the only kind one ever hears of.

...which he somehow pulled off.

Jim Gaar - 2015/01/27 00:38:48 UTC

Well holy crap, besides the real issue I had no idea 300 hours was considered a low airtime pilot!!!

Must be pretty stunning from the aspect of someone who's racked up a lifetime total of fifteen minutes.

Tom Lyon - 2015/01/27 01:16:59 UTC

Well, most of us have made mistakes that we were very lucky to survive. I know I have. But I sure hope this pilot will take the advice of experienced pilots to heart and back way up in his training.

He's got three fucking hundred hours. What's somebody gotta do to be considered experienced?

I wouldn't expect to be fortunate enough to avoid serious injury or worse next time.

Ya think he does?

Steve Forslund - 2015/01/27 01:55:40 UTC

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/26 20:37:29 UTC

Why would anyone sell a T2C to a low-time H3 pilot?

To buy your new U2 as you figured out there iss no need for a T2 if you are not using its potential

And why would you waste money on a six G glider when you're not planning on ever needing much more than two?

Jack Barth - 2015/01/27 02:15:29 UTC

This part of the country 300hr's is on the low side.

And seventy-five IQ points is in the stratosphere.

smokenjoe50 - 2015/01/27 02:27:46 UTC

I learned on that glider. I put over 300 hours on it in a year in a half. I've had better flight on that glider then most pilots in their life. My problem was I would only push on XC if I had large LZ's ahead.

What a waste of all the downtubes sacrificed in the pursuit of the perfect flare timing needed for landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place.

I bought the U2 to spend this season working on landing out in smaller LZ's. I plan on buying another topless next season.

Flying a topless is as easy as any other glider. It requires discipline and good judgement.

And nothing particular in the way of skill, right?

This pilot has proven he has no judgement.

Bullshit. He proved he fucked up once. Wanna see someone who REALLY proved he had no judgment?

37-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png


Doing stupid shit for the sole reason that that's what all his stupid shit buddies were doing, studiously ignoring the people who knew what the fuck they were talking about, getting away with it without so much as a scratch right up until the last flight of his career...

I have tried many times to explain to him what he is doing wrong but he wont listen.

Try explaining to tens of thousands what they're doing wrong and see where it gets you.

He thinks he is a master pilot.

Should fit right in on the Jack and Davis Shows.

Nic Welbourn - 2015/01/27 02:54:41 UTC

Wow, that was quite the ride in ground effect!! Fark. Glad he was OK

Given that he was in that situation etc, I thought he did pretty well not to end up in a bush, those powerlines, and to not go home without a face. He didn't look all that bad at handling that wing, and he kept flying the glider when it counted. it's a great shame about the attitude though.

Often if someone doesn't ask, they won't listen - what a shame!

300 hours = 'low airtime'?!?
Tough school you got there in that part of the country!

Couldn't be all that tough. Look who's in it and running it.

I think he tried to finger-bang right near the end, excellent, great ACP material. He probably needs a better helmet, but no self-respecting ACP has basebar wheels.

Yeah. That's one of the top reasons I have nothing but contempt for Ace Comp Pilots.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32369
Cross controlling bad approach & crash on a topless.

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2015/01/27 02:56:21 UTC

I understand it was a new wing and the pilot was probably apprehensive but I didn't see a lot of piloting skill there. It seemed like he was barely able to control the wing. In fact it appeared that he was just along for the ride.

Like damn near anyone you wanna name behind a Dragonfly. (Still haven't heard anything from John Claytor, by the way.)

If other pilots of the forum didn't know him I would have sworn that somebody sold a H-1 and toppless glider. This video could be called a dozen ways to cheat death.

I was 10 seconds into the video and didn't think he would be walking away from the flight. I'm glad it worked out ok in the end. Let's hope his buddies see this video and stage an intervention before this guy gets hurt.

Rodger Hoyt - 2015/01/27 02:56:54 UTC

Give the guy a break, be constructive - he probably feels bad enough and hopefully he learned a lesson. There's few enough of us as it is, no need to be embarrassing someone out of the sport.

Especially when it's so much more fun and noble appearing to eliminate someone out of the sport on the pretense of making it a safe place for people of varying ages to visit.

smokenjoe50 - 2015/01/27 03:00:11 UTC

We tried. He thinks we are all jealous of his natural flying ability.

Comet - 2015/01/27 03:08:10 UTC

The moral of the story is never post your mishaps on YouTube where low-time hang 2's who can't fly any better than you can sanctimoniously pontificate about you as if they were sky gods.

smokenjoe50 - 2015/01/27 03:16:38 UTC

Here is the pilots respons from Facebook

Seven words, three literacy issues that should've been dealt with by third grade or earlier.

ok.first of all I really apreciate the pilots that are trying to help.Others have their vision blurry for other issues.English is my second language and Iam trying to do good at typing but not my best.

You're right.One should never try to do one's best.

I made a mistake in thinking that the lz was one of those fields on front of me so I losse a lot of altitude just floating around.When I realise that I was in a big problem it was already to late,Iwas confused in my head and that has nothing to do whit what kind of glider I was flying.

And never ever run a spellcheck on anything - you just can't trust those things to get things right.

I though I had a head wind to do the regular landing aproach but it was until my dive turn that i found out I was in a down wind situation my only opcion was to fly the glider close to the ground...

Where you're in GROUND effect and getting a big boost to your glide performance.

...with enough speed to evade those obstacles in the ground...

One of those obstacles was a big fluffy bush. Slowing down / climbing a bit then diving, leveling off, and flaring into it wouldn't have been a bad option. You came out in great shape but you and your glider would have probably come out smelling like roses if you'd gone for the bush and that would've eliminated any possibility of flying into the traffic on the road.

...and in the air...

What? There were other gliders coming down into that field at the same time?

Iwas very aware that my only opcion was to bleed some of the sppeed and crash at the very end of the lz...

No. See above.

...it was never in my mind on doing the perfect flare...

It should ALWAYS be in your mind on doing the perfect flare. What other point is there in flying hang gliders?

...as Ihad to much speed and the lz becomes to small because of the down wind.I was just trying to not crash to hard and everyting should be ok.which i acomplishedthere was no broken parts in the glider or a single scrach on Me.It was ehiter landing this way or crash in to the power lines or on the street where cars were going at 40 to 50 mph.The critic of pilots who can fly is always to much glider for the pilot.But in my case reality is I have longer farter and better landings that many pilots will ever have.Joe Rodriguez sold this glider to my because this was to much of a glider for Him He was crashing and breaking tubes all the time sometimes both downtubes at the same time.

Always, of course, in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place in which even thinking about wheel landings would be totally insane.

This glider have never been treted so well until I put my hands on it.i HAVE NEVER HAVE A BROKEN PART IN ALL OF MY GLIDERS OR A SINGLE SCRACH ON ME SINCE I BEGUN FLYING.

In REAL aviation I have no doubt whatsoever that the same can be said of damn near everyone who's ended his life in a crash and burn.

Jonathan crashed breaking his glider and him self in one of the most easy lz on cA.

Ditto for Zack Marzec - 'cept in Florida. Any comment?

Do that mean that He is flyin a glider that is to much for Him?

No, in that case it was the precise opposite. He used a big drag chute to turn his topless into a brick.

I have videos on you tube and face book that prove what i can do with this glider.So dont give me the bs that this is to much glider for Me.

You certainly will never hear that from me. But you will hear me say that if you've got a glider with a great lift to drag ratio you need to make sure you're always in range of a half decent field.

Any body who relly soar can get in a incident like this the good news is I got away with it.

Anybody who can really soar can also fly into a radio antenna. That doesn't mean he has a great excuse for doing so. People are allowed to make mistakes every now and then but they really can't afford to do the sort of thing you did - not that you need to hear that from me.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32369
Cross controlling bad approach & crash on a topless.

Comet - 2015/01/27 03:26:21 UTC

Wow, bunch of a-holes on this forum.

Yeah, what do you expect when it's run as an a-hole sanctuary. And you are definitely one of them.

I'm glad someone else's misfortune...

What misfortune? He and his glider got away totally unscathed.

...could make all you armchair sky gods feel good about yourselves.

Fuck that. Tell me why someone needs to ever have flown something to be able to analyze this one and understand the mistakes and not mistakes?

Let he among you who has always flown perfectly and never crashed be the first to cast stones.

I've made plenty of mistakes - including at least a couple versions of that one. And I'll cast however many stones I feel like.

NMERider - 2015/01/27 03:43:42 UTC

As Mike Meier can probably tell most of us (via his great article on safety)...

Fuck Mike Meier's...

http://www.willswing.com/articles/Article.asp?reqArticleName=HandleOnSafety

...great article on safety. Cite one pilot claiming that it saved him from getting mostly killed, broken, bruised, or scratched. Where was Mike Meier's article on safety denouncing that total crap that Dr. Trisa Tilletti published in the 2012/06 issue of the magazine or comments on the appropriateness of Zack Marzec's appropriate weak link with its finished length of 1.5 inches or less?

...is that the reality is that it's actually bad news he got away with it. 'Getting away' with such unsafe flying only serves to reinforce it in a pilot's mind. The probability of disaster rises and rather than a series of minor injuries the sad outcome is often fatal or crippling injury.

Rubbish. He fucked up, got scared shitless, posted a video titled: "Hang glider crash.", and got all kinds of flak on it. It'll be a cold day in hell before he does a rerun.

On the other hand...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7570/15661252749_7fcfe6445a_o.jpg


Show me a subsequent video of Fabio doing a hook-in check - just PRIOR to launching. Show me a video of ANYONE doing a hook-in check ANYWHERE just ONCE as a response to this fatal-for-the-purpose-of-the-exercise incident. Find one instructor anywhere teaching hook-in checks. What does Mike Meier's great article on safety say about hook-in checks and the crap Wills Wing publishes in their manuals on the issue?

Fabio's OK. His only mistake was flying with a camera - and everyone and his dog does that. Inevitable occupational hazard.

What isn't stated in Joe's post is stated on the pilot's Facebook wall.

This is the video of my crash today.My mistake I have this flu since the last weekend and I knew I shouldnt be flying.But after one month of no flying I decided to go anyways.Here is the video Joe Rodriguez.

I can attest that this pilot has natural talent. But he lacks both experience and judgement which only comes with time and not birthright.

So unless you have both experience and judgment an incident like this is pretty much inevitable?

This is evident in his own admission that he had the flu and knew better than to fly. AFAIK he also owns a Falcon 3 195 that flies great. Yet chose not to fly it.

So nobody's ever come close to overshooting or entirely missed a field on a Falcon 3 type glider? I've personally watched this happen.

Also...

As Mike Meier can probably tell most of us (via his great article on safety) is that the reality is that it's actually bad news he got away with it. 'Getting away' with such unsafe flying only serves to reinforce it in a pilot's mind. The probability of disaster rises and rather than a series of minor injuries the sad outcome is often fatal or crippling injury.

So he flies the Falcon and plops it down in the middle of that field just fine. Is that actually a GOOD thing?

You always aim for your spot in the middle of the field...

14-2328
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7498/15517775948_dcc7c5a652_o.png


...and keep on getting away with it so you never even think about all that runway...

48-3624
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7483/15703163685_7672d304d1_o.png


...you keep leaving behind you?

This guy's a better pilot now. And I'm glad he didn't hurt himself or his glider - or fly the Falcon that day.

Mike Bomstad - 2015/01/27 03:44:13 UTC

If you fuck up that bad, flying that poorly...... and post the video...... do you really expect any different?

He didn't post the video as evidence of what a great sky god he is. He didn't sweep it under the rug - the way ALL commercial operations do, 'specially after they've demolished or killed one of their guys.

We all know how the public is about such things.....

I dunno...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13359
Today was a bad day!

Mike Bomstad - 2009/08/26 04:21:15 UTC

The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Dont choose the path of least resistance)

Attach it to the wing, completing the aircraft.... then preflight the completed aircraft.
Buckle yourself into the cockpit and then your ready.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c87vgq5ZFU0

11-A12819
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8339/28924980016_2ba1d20ef7_o.png


http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8253/28924975726_0d24a615c2_o.png
13-A14319

How much flak did you catch from your total asshole buddies for that one?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32369
Cross controlling bad approach & crash on a topless.

Mike Harper - 2015/01/27 03:49:21 UTC

He was within reach of the bailout LZ almost the whole time. At :47...

14-04700
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7343/15775274194_63810f3fe4_o.png

...he is headed right for the strip. And they have cleared out a bunch of trees to make it easier. The ridge he is by at 1:09...

19-10900
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8664/16396810642_e477f75ce5_o.png

...is what I consider last chance, still 500 AGL...

At 1:09 I'd say he's about a tenth of that Above Ground Level. (Anybody wants a copy of the video lemme know.)

...and have gotten up from there. If not you have enough to make the bailout. He could have made it up until 1:30...

24-13000
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8623/16396808992_e85b4493aa_o.png

...of the flight.

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/27 04:36:29 UTC

Yeah, we're all a bunch of low-time H2's critiquing this video.

I'll take my chances with a random low time Two over your stupid ass any day of the week.

Mike Badley - 2015/01/27 05:04:29 UTC

I am NOT going to pick on this guy - holy, moly have I been in similar situations and gotten lucky. Glad Go-Pro wasn't around back then. It is really easy to go after a guy's mistakes and make him sorry to post.

Mission accomplished.

That being said - he admits to confusion which is just NEVER a good place to be when trying to figure out your approach. Which field, how you are going to set it up, everything really should be decided with altitude and not left to a last minute 'take it as it comes' kind of ride. That was a crap field no matter WHAT the approach.

Bullshit. If he'd come in from the opposite direction it would've been a piece o' cake. There's a drop of about forty feet from where he was turning onto final and his crash landing point. About eighteen to one - close to his glide ratio with him flying fast in ground effect.

If it was the only field, then maybe I say OK - you gotta take it, but the beach looked pretty viable from there and I think there may have been others nearby as well. Flying around with the bomb bay doors open means you are committing to that field.

Meaning he was committing to landing at least as soon as we saw him at the beginning of the video. What's the point in flying a topless if you're constantly using your pod harness as a drag chute?

Anyway - I am completely surprised by the results of the landing. I can't believe he missed so many obstacles and managed to convert that energy into just a pretty good whack.

I don't like his posted 'defense'. He really should be humble about this particular landing. It is not great skill that saved him from an ambulance ride. Bragging about flying a particular glider better than the previous owner is just begging to end up with a spectacular crash.

Yeah...

2013/02/01:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3746/13864051003_a820bcf2b8_o.png


2013/02/02:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


Ya think?

Anyway - I am GLAD he walked away from that.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32369
Cross controlling bad approach & crash on a topless.

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/01/27 05:11:52 UTC

Scary pilot

He's a H2, just over two years...

...and three hundred hours...

...since he started flying. I've had a short email discussion with his instructor...

Rob McKenzie. Best of the best. Strong advocate of true thinking. Staunch opponent of hook-in checks.

...and I called him on the phone this evening to tell him bluntly that if he keeps this up, he's going to die.

What? You're gonna kill Rob if he keeps signing off Twos incapable of keeping good fields in range?

We don't want that to happen.

Speak for yourself, Mark.

I hope he takes that advice to heart, gets back on a wing more suited to his current skill level, and goes back for some additional training.

Oh. You're talking about Ignacio.

So the wing was a big problem and he needs to go back to for additional training to keep him from doing this again. Maybe some tandem training with Dr. Trisa Tilletti so he understands how to stay inside the Cone Of Safety and use 130 pound Greenspot to prevent lockouts and learn how to react to a weak link break with the glider straight and level in smooth air at two thousand feet.

He has moved rapidly from a Falcon up to a topless, and he hasn't developed the skills to handle it safely.

How 'bout this:

37-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png


motherfucker? Did you call him up to tell him he hadn't developed the skills he needed to handle his pro toad bridle safely and recover from the pitch attitude that a weak link as heavy as that one would allow?

We've already lost two pilots this year, and we're not even through January.

Really? Who's we? USHGA? The US? Who are they? Or are you talking about paraglider people?

Let's not lose any more.

Nah, let's lose LOTS more. I can give you a long list of assholes we really need to lose - and Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's name is at the top of it.

There's plenty of fun to be had on easy-to-fly wings while you build up your skills...

Yeah, like...

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/R0019247201059.jpg


...Shannon Moon at the Quest Happy Acres putting green on her Sport 2.

...and it's a lot more relaxing to fly when you know you can put it exactly where you want it every time.

Right on the old Frisbee dead center in the middle of the LZ with a no stepper. Keep perfecting your flare timing until you can do that just as well as Mark does.

And keep up to date on all the accident reports and safety advisories published monthly in the magazine. Let's finally get a handle on this safety thing.

2015/01/27 05:28:24 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider

Rat own, Jonathan.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32369
Cross controlling bad approach & crash on a topless.

gluesniffer - 2015/01/27 05:25:53 UTC

I've never had a perfect flight.

Obviously not. If you had you wouldn't be down on the ground right now writing about how you've never had a perfect flight.

I also haven't broken a dt in over a decade. I always critique each flight, and ponder what I can do better even on flights that were great from start to finish.

Ever do a hook-in check at the beginning of your launch sequence? Just kidding.

When I have close calls, loosing...

Speaking of perfection.

...the ego and being as honest with myself as possible is going to hopefully keep me in one piece and keep me getting better.

And when you KNOW you're hooked in you KNOW you're hooked in. Never tell yourself otherwise. That would be just plain dishonest.

When I hear flu as an excuse, or that the pilot is better than other pilots, tells me ego is clouding his judgment and little has been learned.

Bullshit. My call is that he never puts himself in a situation like this again - regardless of what's wrong with his personality...

This guys attitude sucks.

...and attitude.

He might have natural ability and if he looses the competitive tude he could be great.

And then he'll be able to post some videos of him being great and we'll thus have respect for his opinions on hook-in checks, weak link strengths, and what constitutes an easy reach.

I would give this guy full respect if he called it like it is.

What kind of respect do you give Mark G. Forbes, Davis Dead-On Straub, Bob Kuczewski, Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney?

Something like, "I really screwed up by not landing in a designated lz, especially when flying a new top of the line wing. Doing a 180 to final, down wind, down slope and not reading the wind from a huge body of water was also stupid".

1. He didn't do a 180 onto final and so what if he had?
2. I never saw the slightest indication of any air movement. If there was any it was negligible.

" also looking a my footage I can see I'm crossing it up a wee bit".

Would that be his or his instructor's fault?

Glad he is alright and hopefully he learns and improves .

Tom Emery - 2015/01/27 06:41:18 UTC
San Diego

Ouch

Ignacio, we started flying almost at the same time. I was surprised to see you setting up a T2 at Crestline a while ago. I am still flying the Ultrasport and have a U2 sitting at home waiting for me to get good enough to fly it. We all progress at different speeds. That being said, I hope you had an awakening. I've had some piss poor landings. My first encounter with Elsinore resulted in bent aluminum.

In the primary? 'Cause you fucked up your wheel landing?

The thing that worries me is the fact that you missed the LZ altogether.

It would worry me too - if he'd been aiming for the LZ.

To fly a place for the first time without some local input is bizarre.

How 'bout me? I've pioneered sites so local input isn't much of an option. How 'bout all those XC pilots who land in places nobody's ever landed anything before?

IGNACIO... SLOW DOWN A LITTLE....PLEASE. You have the time.

Obviously. He's got three hundred hours and he's a low time Three - or Two.

You have a wealth of resources in the form of experienced pilots.

Hang Fours with seventy-five hours.

Talk to them. Listen to what they have to say.

'Specially on hook-in checks, flare, timing, and weak link strength.

Heed their advice. You have pilots saying "you cheated death". If that doesn't make your skin crawl....

...Tad certainly will.

Jack Barth - 2015/01/27 07:07:38 UTC

He got himself into big SHIT. He stuck with it and with a lot of luck he pulled it off.
Kudo's to him for not panicking and reacting quickly to a very dangerous situation
I personally wouldn't have posted this flight or his name. Along time ago I had a similar experience. Everybody there saw it and I had to accept the verbal admonishing. I deserved it. Luckily this was before social media. There's a lot of flack being thrown his way. Hopefully he understands and has picked up a couple of constructive inputs and is able to shrug off some of the useless tripe.. I learned a lesson when I screwed up because I was lucky to have survived and got the chance to analyze my poor decision. I've never made that error again. Cameras are a fun instrument to fly with, but won't be much of a friend if you have flights ending like this one more than once. He actually flew the wing pretty well up until he left himself no way to make the primary LZ.. The bailouts are more suited to PG's than a T2C. I'm pretty sure he knows how close he came to disaster. " the good news is I got away with it."

NMERider - 2015/01/27 07:17:33 UTC

His last ever post on social media about 1 hour ago...

I got alive and unscratched out of a situation where almost any other pilot even on single surface gider would have been killed and I am the worst pilot.fuck this social web sites.I wont post any ever.

I think this speaks for itself.

Jack Barth - 2015/01/27 07:45:45 UTC

He's right anyone without his level of luck would have surely been severely injured or killed

Right Jack. It was entirely LUCK. He totally quit being a pilot at the point he was committed to that field. So quote some people talking about what accidents waiting to happen were Jeff Craig and Richard Seymour - both of whom were aiming for the Kagel primary, missed it completely, and died instantly.

Tormod Helgesen - 2015/01/27 08:15:25 UTC

This must be really humiliating, posting a video of yourself thinking you're the hero of the day, pulling of an impossible feat only to learn that everybody thinks you're a fool for getting into that situation.

I don't believe he has 300 flight hours, not zipping up, flying around without a plan not even knowing where to land. 300 hours in 2 years? Costal hang maybe.

So how come not one single local has addressed this issue? And how does anyone do three hundred hours of coastal without getting bored out of his skull unless he goes into aerobatics?

The video is removed now.

Not from Yours Truly.

This is why I quit as an instructor, stupid f#%&heads that refuse to listen...

Yeah, anybody who wouldn't listen to you would hafta be a stupid f#%&head - no other explanation possible.

...and go on almost killing themselves.

Was Robin Strid one of your students? He went on and totally killed himself - with a lot of help from Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey and his "towing equipment".

His attitude is appalling, his judgment is worse, if this kind of people is the future of hanggliding it's better to let it dwindle away.

Somewhat with you there. But, of course, you're emblematic of that kind of people.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32369
Cross controlling bad approach & crash on a topless.

Comet - 2015/01/27 08:15:26 UTC

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/27 04:36:29 UTC

Yeah, we're all a bunch of low-time H2's critiquing this video.

I never said "all."

I know for a fact that one of the harshest critics on this thread has even less experience than the pilot in question...

EVEN less? UNDER three hundred hours? Do they let him go off the TOP of the hill now?

...and recently had a glider-demolishing accident himself.

Erik Boehm - 2015/01/27 11:28:01 UTC

ok.first of all I really apreciate the pilots that are trying to help.Others have their vision blurry for other issues.

Not a good sign, he's already alluding to "other issues" to dismiss some critique.

English is my second language and Iam trying to do good at typing but not my best.

Ok, English isn't your first language, but I assume he can still put proper spaces between words.

I made a mistake in thinking that the lz was one of those fields on front of me so I losse a lot of altitude just floating around.When I realise that I was in a big problem it was already to late,Iwas confused in my head and that has nothing to do whit what kind of glider I was flying.

Being confused about where you are or what you should do is not due to the kind of glider, correct.
-However, it is a sign that he lacks experience, and should be on a more forgiving glider that won't make a bad situation worse.

What's a more forgiving glider? If you've drifted back too far into injun country and are trying to punch your way back out front to make the LZ or a safe field is a Falcon more forgiving than a T2? How 'bout a T2 with decent pair of wheels or skids versus a Falcon...

14-00725
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/14423696873_f1326e2320_o.png


...without?

He was flying a glider that eats up more runway than anything else - which was a downside in the latter part of THIS situation. But he was also flying a glider that gave him the option of reaching better landing areas later in the flight than anything else. And if things are REALLY marginal having wheels could be the deal breaker on just barely making it versus clipping the last tree and killing yourself. It's bullshit to just stereotype one glider as "more forgiving" than another. Everything's a trade-off.

I though I had a head wind to do the regular landing aproach but it was until my dive turn that i found out I was in a down wind situation

Again, a lack of situational awareness suggests he shouldn't be flying such a glider.

The wind - if any - was so light as to be a nonissue.

I'd much rather land a falcon downwind than a T2...

The slope on that field was ENORMOUS. He was trying to land downhill on part of the mountain. And if he'd landed on a Falcon he'd have had to pack up a fully intact Falcon. As it was he got to pack up a fully intact T2. I'd rather have the T2. And if I ever changed my mind I'd be able to trade it in for three Falcons.

my only opcion was to fly the glider close to the ground with enough speed to evade those obstacles in the ground and in the air,

I'm not sure I follow this logic... but I can't see the video (found this thread too late), so I lack context.

I'll put some stills up. He handles the situation into which he put himself fairly well.

Iwas very aware that my only opcion was to bleed some of the sppeed and crash at the very end of the lz

A Falcon bleeds off speed a lot better than a T2...

So does a T2 with a drag chute.

see why people are saying he shouldn't be flying a T2?

1. Not everyone's saying he shouldn't be flying a T2.

2. How many of the assholes who are saying he shouldn't be flying a T2 were saying Zack Marzec shouldn't have been flying a pro toad bridle and Rooney Link pitch and lockout limiter? The tradeoff there was purely cheap crap versus a properly engineered system.

it was never in my mind on doing the perfect flare as Ihad to much speed and the lz becomes to small because of the down wind.I was just trying to not crash to hard and everyting should be ok.

A good strong, hard flare can be done above trim speed, and help to bleed off speed and avoid a crash....

Fuck avoiding a crash at that point. He avoided shooting off into pretty heavy traffic with a posted speed limit of forty miles per hour - and we all know what that means regarding the ACTUAL speed. He and his glider came out smelling like roses. And so where was all the flak for THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuMxK9PadzA
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuMxK9PadzA[/video]
08-3717
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5033/14251899186_beac641259_o.png

17-4117
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/14088396670_62d49cbf36_o.png

23-4810
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2932/14295179433_313938b3f9_o.png


guy?

another sign he's not ready to be flying the glider.
A Topless glider is very pitch responsive, and you can flare them quite hard.

Yeah. All the other topless guys had their flare timing perfected years ago.

which i acomplishedthere was no broken parts in the glider or a single scrach on Me.It was ehiter landing this way or crash in to the power lines or on the street where cars were going at 40 to 50 mph.

No... there were surely a lot of other options.... the first of which would be to land in the right LZ.

Yeah. That's been discussed ad nauseam. Give it a fuckin' rest. We're talking about how he handled the situation into which he put himself and it was actually pretty damn good.

The 2nd of which would be to land into the wind...

What wind?

...(maybe, I can't see the video).

Then shut the fuck up. He couldn't see the wind, if any, either 'cause - big surprise - there was no sock in the middle of that field.

THe 3rd would be to fly a falcon...

He wasn't on a goddam Falcon. People with three hundred hours tend not to be.

...and do a better landing.

Go fuck yourself. I'm giving him a ten for that landing. Given what he had a wingspan in front of him I'd have given him a nine if he'd broken an arm and totaled the goddam glider.

The critic of pilots who can fly is always to much glider for the pilot.But in my case reality is I have longer farter and better landings that many pilots will ever have.Joe Rodriguez sold this glider to my because this was to much of a glider for Him He was crashing and breaking tubes all the time sometimes both downtubes at the same time.This glider have never been treted so well until I put my hands on it.i HAVE NEVER HAVE A BROKEN PART IN ALL OF MY GLIDERS OR A SINGLE SCRACH ON ME SINCE I BEGUN FLYING.Jonathan crashed breaking his glider and him self in one of the most easy lz on cA.Do that mean that He is flyin a glider that is to much for Him?I have videos on you tube and face book that prove what i can do with this glider.So dont give me the bs that this is to much glider for Me.Any body who relly soar can get in a incident like this the good news is I got away with it.

Pure arrogance.... "I haven't been hurt yet, others have"

Wow. Arrogance - from a hang glider jockey. Go figure.

Well.... I've got an even better argument.....
[sarcasm]
I'm the result of a single living entity that has survived for nearly 4 BILLION YEARS!!!!
I am the result of an unbroken chain of cells living and dividing, going back to the start of life on Earth.

For comparison, I see plenty of others that have died

Surely I must be super awesome and invincible.... nearly 4 billion years shows I CAN DO NO WRONG!
[/sarcasm]

How much Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney have you read?