Breaking USHPA's Monopoly Control of Flying Sites

[bobk]

And as far as I know and am concerned I was the only fully competent hang glider AT individual on the planet before Zack founded Kite Strings and I was able to bring others up to full speed and make myself redundant.

Thin ice? Point out the "science, truth, facts, reason, and logic" supporting that statement. Describe your experience including hours on each end of the tow line.

[Tad Eareckson]

Textbook u$hPa sociopath response. Big fuckin' surprise.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3035
Tad's Barrel Release and maybe an alternative

Jim Rooney - 2008/02/14 01:37:28 UTC

(3 tows/year) The crux of everything Tad says here.
He is the ultimate sideline quarterback.

Yet he is constantly insulting and condescending to anyone that doesn't agree with his assumptions and conclusions.... which are based on a horrible lack of experience.

It baffles me that people even listen to him.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/22 22:31:35 UTC

Nail on the head Brian!

The simple fact is this. The only reason anyone even gives Tad the time of day is that they want to believe him. Why? Because they don't like to be inconvenienced by a weaklink break. That's it.

Sure, everyone digs around for other reasons to believe, but at the heart of it, it's convenience.
No one is actually scared to fly with a standard weaklink. They may say they are, but deep down inside, they're not.

Tad loves to speak of himself as a scientifically minded person. Yet he ignores a data pool that is at minimum three orders of magnitude higher than his. It is thus that I ignore him.

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7067
AT SOPs - proposed revisions

Subj: Re: [Tow] AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Date: 2009/05/10 02:08:52 UTC
From: cloud9sa@aol.com
To: skysailingtowing@yahoogroups.com
cc: GreggLudwig@aol.com, lisa@lisatateglass.com

Hi Tad.

I'm Tracy Tillman, on the USHPA BOD, on the Tow Committe, and I am an Aviation Safety Counselor on the FAA Safety Team (FAAST) for the Detroit FSDO area. As a rep of both the USHPA and FAA, I would like to help you, USHPA, and the FAA improve safety in flying, towing, and hang gliding.

The FAA gets a lot of letters of complaint from a lot of yahoos. For best effect, I suggest that you describe in your letter (and also post to the skysailingtowing group and share with the USHPA Tow Committee) your areas of expertise (if any) related to this issue, and list your qualifiications, logged hours, and currency in certain categories, such as:

1. hang glider pilot rating and logged hours
2. hang glider aerotow rating, logged hours, and logged number of tows
3. hang glider tug pilot rating, logged hours towing, and logged number of tows
4. hang glider aerotow administrator appointment date
5. hang glider aerotow supervisor appointment date
6. hang glider tanderm instructor rating, logged hours of aerotow tandem instruction, and logged number of instructional flights
7. airplane pilot license ratings and logged number of hours
8. airplane tow pilot endorsement date, logged number of hours towing with airplane, logged number of tows
9. sailplane tow pilot license ratings, logged number of hours, logged number of tows.
10. sailplane instructor license date, logged number of hours of instruction, logged number of instructional tows
11. any other flying or engineering-related credentials that you may have as evidence of your competence to make these claims.

(BTW, if you have an AT hang glider rating or above the you would/should have received the USHPA Aerotow Guidelines as part of your instruction from the person who taught you to aerotow and/or gave you your AT rating, and you should currently have access to them via the packet that is accessible to you on the USHPA web site, if your AT or higher AT-related ratings and appointments are current.)

It would also be good for the FAA and USHPA to know what kind of ultalight or sport plane tug and airplane you use for towing hang gliders and sailplanes with at your operation (if any), along with a general description of your towing operation or who you provide towing and instructional services for (if any).

Additionally, if you want to really present a convincing argument, you should also: (a) get other experts to co-sign your letter, such as those who have some or most of the aerotowing-related credentials listed above, who have been doing this for many years with many students, and who support your argument; and (b) present reliable data based on valid research showing that there is a significant difference in safety with the changes that you recommend. Supportive comments from aerotow experts along with convincing data can make a difference. Otherwise, it may seem as if your perception of "the sky is falling" may not be shared by most others who have a wealth of experience and who are deeply involved in aerotowing in the US.

This information would also be very helpful in convicing the USHPA and others to take your complaint seriously. Most of the individuals who serve on the USHPA Towing Committe have most of the credentials listed above, so it will be great for you to let them know about your similar credentials and depth of experience, too. If you do not have those credentials, it will be a simple matter for the USHPA Tow Committee to respond to the FAA to discount your complaint, so it will be very important for you to present this information in your letter to the FAA and to others now.

The best way to make change is to get involved, and join the Tow Committee at its meetings. That's what people who really care do to make change. Such is the nature of the great opportunities we have to make a difference in the US (although it means having to spend time, money, and effort, compared to the ease of just sitting in front of a computer.)

Good luck with your endeavor, and regards,

Dr. Tracy Tillman
USHPA Director, Region 7
FAA Detroit FSDO FAAST Aviation Safety Counselor

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


REFUSES to answer an actual question, attemps to blow a smoke screen / derail any actual progress in the discussion by playing the "experience" card. (The flip side of the "unrepentant child molester" card.)

You've just answered the question, motherfucker. I'm a mere INSECT in the shadows of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and Dr. Trisa Tilletti. Fine Bob, that's EXACTLY what I was praying for.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2618
Static towing ground based.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmsiOr5vOrs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6IFmX3t2vg

5:05 - Spot a Red tail hawk thermaling.
5:15 - He will show me the best place to thermal up.
5:27 - Now he's right off Mike's wing tip. He's trying to get behind me for attack mode.
5:35 - Not gonna happen fella -- I'll get behind you!
5:48 - It Happened! He got behind and above me. That was fast!
8:59 - Waiting for the impact! I'll tighten all my muscles so he has a tough time getting a big bite!
6:11 - The suspense is killing me! Where is he?
6:24 - Okay! You can have the thermal -- I'm outta here.

Yes Bill. If a Redtail circles up with you it can only be because he's moving into attack you. By biting you.

How many thermal flights do we have in the US and Canada in which we DON'T have Redtails circling up with us? One certainly must wonder how any of us manages to survive more than three or four thermal flights.

And even in Australia where the Wedgies DO attack and all the fuckin' time all they do is slice up upper surfaces.

6:49 - Robin radio's up...

...as he wait's for me to land...

6:49 - ...that it is light but this is a big 195' Falcon. I should be okay.
7:02 - I hope!

Translation. The more appropriately sized entry level glider, the 170 foot Falcon with the better control responsiveness, is dangerous to foot land in sparse desert scrub with a reasonably strong smooth headwind. And even the big no-brainer glider is a crap shoot.

And this is for a fucking Hang Four who's been active in the sport...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1638
Basement Bob

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/19 19:22:40 UTC

It's hard for me to imagine the kind of human being who would write something like that on a public forum to someone as experienced and thoughtful as Bill Cummings.

...since the beginning of time.

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

But of course people WILL fly hang gliders 'cause they're just so much cooler than all other aircraft that people will deal with the only landing we recognize in any of our owners' manuals.

Bull fucking shit. They won't fly hang gliders EITHER.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28835
Why I don't paraglide

Tom Emery - 2013/04/17 14:29:12 UTC

Been flying Crestline about a year now. I've seen more bent aluminum than twisted risers. Every time another hang pounds in, Steven, the resident PG master, just rolls his eyes and says something like, "And you guys think hang gliding is safer."

Not sustainably. Hang gliding is on an extinction curve and those bullshit stunt landings and all the bullshit "training" that accompanies them has done a hundred times the damage than the next highest factor has 'cause every hang glider flight that's ever taken off has included a landing - or reasonable facsimile.

01:07 - If Robin can't hear me for any more than three seconds he will stop.

- Indicating that the driver is almost certainly blind with respect to the glider he's powering up into the sky close to a third of a mile behind him.

- Meaning the "pilot" (the one who has zilch control of his throttle) knows he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of actuating his easily reachable release in any situation in which he needs to in order to survive.

- So ya don't trust radio communications all that well, do ya? Just enough to bet your life on.

- And what's the worst that could happen in a three second interval - not to mention assessment and response time - on a foot launched, truck pulled static tow minus an observer and with mesquite the fuck all over the place waiting to snag your polypro.

03:02 - I hooked up the weak link (220 lbs)...

- C'mon Bill. You've already given us tons of proof that your release will be totally useless in any situation in which your life will depend on it. Give us a fuckin' break.

- 220 pounds. Optimal strength for the 195 foot Falcon glider / Bill Cummings pilot combo.
- Prevents the glider from progressing into dangerously steep climb and lockout attitudes.
- Works such the glider will only experience a gentle dip as it transitions to free flight / safe mode.
- Anybody who experiences a severe stall upon weak link success failed to respond as he was trained and certified to.

...and next the release that is on the tow bridle.

What do you need a release on the tow bridle for? You already have a 220 pound weak link plus a driver who will stop the truck if he goes more than three seconds without hearing a radio transmission. This is just unnecessary complexity and adding complexity always increases failure rate.

03:29 - It's tough with only a two person operation and not near as safe as a three person.

That's OK, Bill. Your system is so robust that it's hard to imagine any situation occurring that you and/or Robin wouldn't be able to deal with in your sleep.

05:12 - The driver will stop if no commands are heard within three seconds.

- And look back to make sure he wasn't dragging glider wreckage with a dead ex pilot connected to it.
- Why? Won't the 220 pound weak link have already succeeded in having prevented the glider from getting into too much trouble?

05:44 - The crosswind blew the line into a bush. It stripped clear so I won't release.

Fantastic! And your 220 pound weak link also realized that the situation wasn't dangerous so also elected to continue the tow.

06:46 - This is not a method for students but only experienced tow pilots.

Why Bill?

- What are we seeing you do in either of these videos relative to the tow that should be beyond the depth of any solid 2.0?

- You've buried us with smoking gun stuff proving beyond a shadow of any doubt that this is dangerous shoddy fringe activity. Give us ONE scenario in which a 2.0 would be in over his head but you'd be able to handle and come out smelling like a rose.

07:58 - Pilot is ready except for the tie down on the nose of the glider.

And he's one hundred percent positive that he's hooked in so it would be just plain STUPID to perform a hook-in check just prior to launch.

http://ozreport.com/forum/files/copy_2_of_imgp1239_197.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7220/13949046702_ccfa0fafab_o.png

http://www.thekiteboarder.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/opener-532x800.jpg

16:32 - I'll choke up on the release cord again incase the tire picks up the tow line so it will not drag me.

Good thinking. A student of this system who'd just been platform launching the past few years probably wouldn't have considered that.

17:52 - The crosswind blew the tow to the right and the tow line snagged a bush.

Yeah.

18:00 - Still snagged it won't come lose.

I've just been platform launching the past few years. Would should I do?

19:19 - This time I'm going to steer, left after launching, to keep the tow line out of the mesquite bush on the right side of the road.

Same direction John Woiwode steered, when that nasty south crosswind drifted him to the right.

19:55 - There that should do it.

Certainly did it for John. Hasn't had a problem with towing a hang glider since.

20:20 - I always stop the tow 3/10 mile short of the end of the tow road incase I would have release problems -

- Or hell, sidewire problems.

- You mean release problems in addition to the ones you've elected to take up with you?

- I thought that your 220 pound weak link would detect any release problems and prevent you from getting into too much trouble.

- What release problems have you had before that required three tenths of a mile and no more to get sorted out?

- Catch that, people of varying ages? A release that he's selected and preflighted still may have problems that require three tenths of a mile and no more to get sorted out. Is this a great country or what!

20:42 - Released with too much line tension.

- WHOA! Bit of a stall there, Bill. Good thing you were nice and high, wasn't it?

- How was it possible for you to have released with too much line tension when...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Bill Cummings - 2013/02/28 06:11:37 UTC

When the pilot lost the towline it had the nose too high and due to that it climbed into a stall. My weaklinks would not allow me to climb that fast and develop into a stall like that.

...your weaklinks won't let you climb with too much line tension?

20:56 - I'll have to check for a short in my PTT finger switch.

On the radio so critical in the "safe" execution of these tows. Keep up the great work, Bill.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6833
Highland Saturday 31th

Knut Kryerson - 2015/10/28 00:56:10 UTC
McLean, Virginia

Looks like it might be a good day at Highland this Saturday too. Assume this is the last weekend they are open for this season and will definitely be there on Saturday, if forecast holds.

Rich Elder - 2015/10/28 02:05:11 UTC

Apparently Nov 15th is the offical closing date but if it gets really cold Sunny said they may close early.

Hopefully see you there Knut on Sat.

Ward Odenwald - 2015/10/28 02:07:45 UTC

I agree Knut, predictions look good, also this weekend may not be the end of the 2015 season. Last Saturday Adam said that their target closing date was Nov 15 provided that the mild conditions that we are currently enjoying don't transform into winter (yikes, I said the dreaded W word).

Hoping for the best!

Dunegoon - 2015/10/29 01:12:41 UTC

Interested. Looking favorable.

CF

John Middleton - 2015/10/30 23:30:32 UTC
Arlington, Virginia

Count me in for Saturday.

Knut Ryerson - 2015/10/30 23:35:53 UTC

Saturday still looks good and are definitely going to Highland tomorrow. Hope to be there ~ 10AM. Will also bring a homemade hot crock pot stew soup for you all to enjoy for dinner and should be done by 5PM. Since it is halloween, might drop some eye bowls in it too. Knut

Blaine Cover - 2015/10/31 01:44:16 UTC
York, Pennsylvania

I'll be there too.

Ward Odenwald - 2015/11/01 02:04:34 UTC

Good but demanding. Mitch towed me to a thermal that Doug Rogers (PA pilot) and Knut were climbing in and waved me off maybe 200 ft above Doug (first photo). It was great being in the mix with these guys but it wasn't long before I was looking up at both of them. They kept me in the air by highlighting lift as I would have most likely had an extendo without their help.

Many pilots flew (at least a dozen) plus Highland was busy with tandems. Here are some photos from the first thermal that Doug and Knut helped me stay in with the first image just after releasing from Mitch's tow.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/download/file.php?id=1930

Mitch and Doug
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/download/file.php?id=1931

Following Doug
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/download/file.php?id=1932

Trying to connect with Kunt's lift

Bacil Dickert - 2015/11/01 13:55:02 UTC

Another nice place to be yesterday. Spellcheck . Bazel

Rich Elder - 2015/11/01 23:09:16 UTC

Good day indeed! Took Erika there early to get her first flights on John D.'s Mk IV after Sunny had given it a full annual - really good condition and only needed side wires replaced. She did really well 'only' 7 flights as opposed to her 10 last week and had no issues with PIO etc and had good landings as well. Took her AT test and was signed off!

I had a good first flight, lots of fun working tight, ratty thermals low down and then got off tow early on second flight due to a side wire 'twang' which didn't feel good but turned out to be fine on later inspection.

Great to see so many folks out enjoying a good day - fingers crossed for a repeat next Sat!

Big thanks to Knut for his fish eye and reindeer testicle stew - delicious!!

Check that out carefully, Bob, and compare/contrast with the once a year ultra fringe stuff your buddy is doing at Exit 116.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6833
Highland Saturday 31th

Knut Ryerson - 2015/10/28 00:56:10 UTC
McLean, Virginia

Looks like it might be a good day at Highland this Saturday too. Assume this is the last weekend they are open for this season and will definitely be there on Saturday, if forecast holds.

Good assumption. But you'd have also done well to have assumed that to have been the last weekend in the seventeen season operating history of Highland Aerosports and the permanent end of practical scale aerotowing for the Mid Atlantic region.

Rich Elder - 2015/10/28 02:05:11 UTC

Apparently Nov 15th is the offical closing date but if it gets really cold Sunny said they may close early.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6837
Highland Closing Dates

aerosports - 2015/10/30 17:00:08 UTC

We wanted to give everyone a heads up that we'll be closed during weekdays starting this Monday, November 2nd. Next weekend (Nov 7/8) will be our final weekend for the season. Due to some miscommunication on my part, I thought we would be running until the 15th. Sorry for the late notice. Big thanks to Jim, Bob, and Mitch for all their hard work this year. And thank you to all of you who continue to support us!

Suck my dick, Adam.

Adam
Highland Aerosports Inc.
Hang Gliding Lessons, Solo Aerotows, Sales, & Service
410.634.2700
http://www.aerosports.net

Nope, Rich.

Final Capitol Club post by aerosports:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6922
Highland Aerosports Closing
2016/03/04 00:05:16 UTC

Jim Rooney - 2015/11/10 03:46:33 UTC
Queenstown, New Zealand

Been a blast mate.
Enjoy the winter.

Last Capitol Club post by Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7050
USHPA Regional Director

Jim Rooney - 2016/07/16 09:05:47 UTC

Well, I'm no longer a member, but I'd happily vote for Dan if I could.

Good luck mate.

Last active:
2016/07/18 22:10:10 UTC
Most active topic:
Weak link question
(21 Posts / 3.60% of user's posts)

And good luck in Queenstown, mate. (You'll need it, mate.)

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2016/07/20 02:23:25 UTC
Thanks Jim,

I really want to give back to the sport and people that have done so much for me.

You've already given back so much...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35648
Low cost or free Lessons

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2015/11/11 20:12:42 UTC

The sport draws together people with similar character traits and I'm sure you will feel right at home almost immediately.

...Dan.

Hopefully see you there Knut on Sat.

Ward Odenwald - 2015/10/28 02:07:45 UTC

Dinosaur.

I agree Knut, predictions look good, also this weekend may not be the end of the 2015 season.

It may in fact be the end of all seasons.

Last Saturday Adam said that their target closing date was Nov 15 provided that the mild conditions that we are currently enjoying don't transform into winter (yikes, I said the dreaded W word).

Weaklink? The thing about which u$hPa forbade all public discussion shortly after the 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality?

Hoping for the best!

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Dunegoon - 2015/10/29 01:12:41 UTC

Interested. Looking favorable.

CF

John Middleton - 2015/10/30 23:30:32 UTC
Arlington, Virginia

Dinosaur.

Count me in for Saturday.

Knut Ryerson - 2015/10/30 23:35:53 UTC

Saturday still looks good and are definitely going to Highland tomorrow. Hope to be there ~ 10AM.

Nice having a facility like this so close to your place inside of the DC Beltway, ain't it Knut?

Will also bring a homemade hot crock pot stew soup for you all to enjoy for dinner and should be done by 5PM. Since it is halloween, might drop some eye bowls in it too. Knut

Blaine Cover - 2015/10/31 01:44:16 UTC
York, Pennsylvania

I'll be there too.

Any reason you're going to Ridgely rather than one of the other neighborhood aerotow parks?

[bobk]

Tad: Blah, blah, blah ...

First of all, this topic is titled "Breaking USHPA's Monopoly Control of Flying Sites". That's obviously not what you want to talk about so you continually hijack the topic which reflects your extreme lack of self control. There are plenty of more appropriate topics for your drivel, but you insist on posting it here. Forum topics are known to wander, but most well-mannered people will respect the original poster's reminders to stay on topic. You, on the othet hand, operate this forum like a lunatic asylum run by the inmates. You're so self-centered that you won't allow any topic that isn't all about Tad. It's generally not too bad to add a short off-topic post once in a while, but your off-topic drivel dominates every single topic on this forum.

Second, Bill was towing long before you, and he's continued long after you gave it up. Your credentials are zilch compared to his.

Third, I don't know a lot about aero towing, but I do know that there are two ends of a tow rope, and there's a pilot with his life at stake on either end. That means there's a negotiation about everything from cost to weak link strength. I'll bet if you were paying $10,000 per tow, you could use any weak link you wanted ... someone would take that risk. But if you offered a $10 "strong weak link bonus", and no one would take it, then you can bet they have a legitimate safety concern that they're willing to favor over hard cash.

Fourth, I asked how many tows you've done from both sides of the rope. That wasn't idle chit chat. You're giving out advice, and anyone considering it should want to know what kind of experience you actually have.

Fifth, I'm ignoring most of your long-winded crap (not reading it) explicitly because you won't honor what other people want to say (see "First of all" above). Just as towing is a negotiation between two people ... so is a forum topic. Your approach to both reflects your arrested social development ... and probably some of your other pathologies as well.

[JoeF]

Originally Posted - 2017/10/26 17:17:26 UTC
---
Oct. 27, 2017, from my email concerning a possible future for Dockweiler to help break USHPA's odd monopolistic control of public-land flying sites:
Frank, Bob, and I are in the process of detailing a "Two-Distinct-Sites Solution" (TDSS) proposal that may be a strong win for Windsports, a fulfillment for Beaches & Harbor, and a more fitting opportunity for the HG recreationists It is envisioned that Windsports may positively reach with us toward effecting the solution; such may resolve the odd monopoly over County recreation matters and land that USHPA has seemed to have obtained by a quirk of history. Such solution might even be wanted by all parties even before the Windsports contract comes up for possible renewal. My experience tells me that the TDSS could systematically send to Windsports very many new clients. E.g., one site could be defined as the 30% north portion of the substantial Dockweiler area; the other site could be the 70% remaining portion of the substantial Dockweiler bluff area. By defining two sites, 30% for open recreational hang gliding under permit with the County Beaches & Harbor, and the other distinct site that includes a substantial south section of the frontal bluff and all the diagonal SW bluff and all of the training bunny south launches for the Concessionaire when open for business, the odd USHPA sole-activity at a site complexity could be met. The TDSS could thus be a win-win-win where Beaches & Harbor fulfills its mandate for recreation at the beaches. USHPA insurance detail would apply in the distinct 70% site. In the known very rare instances where the 30% north portion is needed by the Concession, then recreational hang gliding (RHG) could close. On Windsports closed days, the 70% site could be open to RHG as it is already. On almost all days of the year, RHG would have the 30% site open. TDSS: RHG site. And Concessionaire site. Two sites. The separation line may be defined and clearly marked.

In the TDSS, RHG permittees could regularly tell spectators:
"Yes, lessons are given over there by Windsports!".
The synergy from the deep enthusiasm and activity of RHG at Dockweiler has streamed out in radiance to build the lion's share of modern hang gliding in the USA and world; that synergy may be tapped by Windsports by TDSS; the profit potential for Windsports may well be maximized by TDSS.

[bobk]

Originally Posted - 2017/10/27 17:28:43 UTC
---
Moderation request: Please move all off-topic posts (any posts not directly related to breaking USHPA's monopoly control of flying sites) to the newly-created "The Tad Show" topic.

This would be consistent with posts moved from other topics to "The Bob Show".

Thanks.
---
Last edited by bobk on 2017/10/27 17:32:12 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

[bobk]

Great post Joe!!

Your vision of clearly separating the recreational and commercial uses is a good one. This separation is clearly consistent with the recreational land use statutes which make exactly that distinction.

It has been the commercial interests within USHPA that have artificially forced the commercial and recreational uses into the same box. That was done to subsidize the commercial operators with funds from recreational pilots.

Thanks for bringing the discussion back on topic.

[Tad Eareckson]

Bob Kuczewski - 2017/10/26 05:10:52 UTC

Tad: Blah, blah, blah ...

Yep, vintage Bob.

First of all, this topic is titled "Breaking USHPA's Monopoly Control of Flying Sites".

First of all, you're banned - and have been since 2012/05/07 12:38:07 UTC. You're here on Guest status and started this topic in violation of what you agreed to - not posting - to attain those very broad (and totally unreciprocated) privileges.

That's obviously not what you want to talk about so you continually hijack the topic which reflects your extreme lack of self control.

- The topic is about whatever the Moderators and Members here feel like making it. Maybe you too a bit.

- In addition to having an extreme lack of self control I also have an extreme level of Kite Strings forum control. (Or at least I did when I began composing this post prior to the Tapatalk tsunami.) Which is really unfortunate for you in this situation.

There are plenty of more appropriate topics for your drivel, but you insist on posting it here.

Well, my reputation for appropriateness totally sucks. (And if it didn't Kite Strings wouldn't exist.) So looks like you're shit outta luck on this.

Forum topics are known to wander, but most well-mannered people will respect the original poster's reminders to stay on topic.

- See above about the original post.
- But I'm not a most well-mannered person. So I don't really see the relevance of your point.
- What's your data supporting that claim? Show me some glider forums on which manners count for shit.

You, on the othet hand...

This is an example of why I don't want fuckin' Tapatalk making this forum iPhone friendly. If I had a button that make iPhone accessibility read-only I'd push and lock it in a New York minute.

...operate this forum like a lunatic asylum run by the inmates.

- Well, that's certainly not a problem on any other glider forum you're gonna find. So it really baffles me as to why you're trying to communicate on this one.

- Ya know, Bob... When Davis needed a replacement for Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney he moved Ben Reese into the slot. And when I'm going through a Davis Show thread and see a Ben Reese post I read the first and last five word sets of his thirty paragraph submissions then check out the next entry.

You're so self-centered that you won't allow any topic that isn't all about Tad.

Bummer. Maybe give the Jack and/or Davis Show a shot.

It's generally not too bad to add a short off-topic post once in a while, but your off-topic drivel dominates every single topic on this forum.

- COOL! Thanks for the compliment and encouragement!
- Probably 'cause I post more than all other Members and Guests combined.

Second, Bill was towing long before you, and he's continued long after you gave it up.

- Yeah Bob. I GAVE it up. One day I was up hanging out with a couple eagles at cloubbase over Ridgely and said, "Fuck this! I'd rather be playing checkers!" Isn't that pretty much the way you gave up hang gliding at Torrey?

- And every month Bill keeps coming up with amazing innovation after amazing innovation. Lighter, faster, cleaner, safer. Load capacities through the ceiling, weak links highly tuned in to one's highest expectations, turnaround times down to milliseconds. Top towing experts from around the globe lined up around the block to get inklings of understandings of what he's doing... If only Kelly Harrison had been tuned into a few dust particles worth of that technology.

- Yeah, people of varying ages... If excellence is your goal, as it must be, always seek out the person who's been doing whatever you're interested in LONGEST. Just like for aerotow weak links.

- Doesn't that make me well over two times better than Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney? His towing career went from 2002 to 2015 Mine from 1980/11/14 to 2008/10/12.

Your credentials are zilch compared to his.

- Sure Bob...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929
Training Manual Comments / Contribution

Bill Cummings - 2012/01/10 14:04:59 UTC

Tad's procedures for aerotowing should become part of any training manual.

Whatever you say.

- Fine. Use his operation, equipment, procedures to advance your flying career. Or Sam's. Great stuff for cleaning up the gene pool a bit.

Third, I don't know a lot about aero towing...

Yeah Bob...

http://kitestrings.org/post7657.html#p7657

You're one of the world's top experts on not knowing a lot about aero towing.

...but...

You actually DO know a lot about aero towing. (Which is one word for a lot of the people who do it.)

I do know that there are two ends of a tow rope...

Three ends for the ropes used as bridles to split the tow force between the pilot and glider.

...and there's a pilot with his life at stake on either end.

Bravely and totally unselfishly going into harm's way to facilitate the pleasure of all us stupid muppets - the ones who bought his plane and pay his salary.

That means there's a negotiation about everything from cost to weak link strength.

- A negotiation in which FAA aerotowing regulations play no part whatsoever.

- Why should the weak link matter in the slightest?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

If one of these fucking dickheads is too incompetent to be able to...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg


...squeeze the lever on his joystick what's his luck likely to be when he needs to land the fuckin' plane in the thermal conditions in which we're flying?

I'll bet if you were paying $10,000 per tow, you could use any weak link you wanted ... someone would take that risk.

- What do you figure Zack Marzec paid for his 2013/02/02 tow at Quest?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

Zack hit the lift a few seconds after I did. He was high and to the right of the tug and was out of my mirror when the weak ling broke. The load on the tug was not excessive as with a lockout, but I was not surprised when the weak link broke.

And do ya think we might be able to dial up the risk to the Dragonfly just a wee bit? And if not, then how come Mark made no effort whatsoever to fix whatever was going on back there by giving Zack the rope?

- Here's what the Flight Park Mafia has to say about sailplane AT weak links:

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

LISA: You and I have flown sailplanes for almost as long as we have flown hang gliders. We own two sailplanes and have two airplanes that we use for towing full-size sailplanes. In all the time that we have flown and towed sailplanes, we have not experienced or even seen a sailplane weak link break.

LISA: It's not that it doesn't happen, but it is a rare occurrence. Russell Brown, a founder of Quest Air in Florida and a well-known Dragonfly tug pilot, is also a sailplane pilot, tug pilot, and A&P mechanic for a large commercial sailplane towing operation in Florida. He told us that, like us, he has never seen a sailplane weak link break, either. Russell owned the first 914-powered Dragonfly ever made--he helped us build the second one, which we still fly. He is the one who, many years ago, showed us the method for making a WT weak link and suggested we use polypropylene rather than Spectra for hang glider V-bridles.

In other words the issue of weak link strength for sailplane operation tugs in all this collective experience was totally irrelevant as far as safety was concerned. 1.4 Gs or fifty. No difference if they don't break. Exactly the same safety enhancement one gets snorkeling with shark repellent in Lake Superior.

And notice they say NOTHING about having seen any emergency pilot actuated terminations of tows - which is exactly what one would expect.

Hang gliders, which have crappy roll control authority and a tow attachment on the pilot which is the control system, DO lock out but low level lockouts are extremely rare, virtually always the consequence of pilot incompetence at at least one end of the string, and often not survivable regardless of what weak link is being used and especially in conjunction with "use" of easily reachable Industry Standard "releases" on the glider end.

Couple hundred feet up and beyond - where vertical air movement starts ramping up - and pretty much nothing matters.

So if you dial it up you get the same number of pops - zero.

Now start dialing it down...

http://www.tost.de/tost-cms/wp-content/uploads/tost_katalog_englisch_080415.pdf
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau Product Catalog

Tost weak links

Tost weak links in optimized format combine the following improvements:
- Longer service life
- Correct marking with load group and manufacturer's name
- Made of high-quality certified aircraft steel
- Clear determination from inferior copies
- Manufacturing tolerance only 5% (10 % are demanded in the requirements)
Like our type-approved products, also our weak links are manufactured according to EASA- approved production methods. Each batch is tested on computerized test equipment and the results are documented. This guarantees consistent high quality and traceability.

Important Notes
- Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading
- Use only the weak link stipulated in your aircraft TCDS or aircraft manual
- Checking the cable preamble is mandatory according to SBO (German Gliding Operation Regulations); this includes the inspection of weak links
- Replace the weak link immediately in the case of a visible damage
- We recommend that the weak link insert are be replaced after 200 starts:
an insert exchanged in time is always safer and cheaper than one single aborted launch
- Always use the protective steel sleeve
- Use only the correct shackles: they prevent the weak link and the steel sleeve from twisting, leading to an increase of the breaking load
- Never use two equal inserts, eg, both with round holes, in a reserve system weak link, since this would double the breaking load

Warning
Using combinations of weak link inserts from different manufacturers can double the breaking load because of the elongation of inferior inserts

Now let's break that down:

Important Notes
- Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading

We have a clear all encompassing definition of a weak link. Protects the aircraft against:
- overloading.
Not against:
- getting out of control
- crashing
- being a shit pilot
- flying with a shit release

Tost weak links in optimized format combine the following improvements:
- Longer service life
- Correct marking with load group and manufacturer's name
- Made of high-quality certified aircraft steel
- Clear determination from inferior copies
- Manufacturing tolerance only 5% (10 % are demanded in the requirements)
Like our type-approved products, also our weak links are manufactured according to EASA- approved production methods. Each batch is tested on computerized test equipment and the results are documented. This guarantees consistent high quality and traceability.

Important Notes
- Use only the weak link stipulated in your aircraft TCDS or aircraft manual
- Checking the cable preamble is mandatory according to SBO (German Gliding Operation Regulations); this includes the inspection of weak links
- Replace the weak link immediately in the case of a visible damage
- We recommend that the weak link insert are be replaced after 200 starts
- Always use the protective steel sleeve
- Use only the correct shackles: they prevent the weak link and the steel sleeve from twisting, leading to an increase of the breaking load
- Never use two equal inserts, eg, both with round holes, in a reserve system weak link, since this would double the breaking load

Warning
Using combinations of weak link inserts from different manufacturers can double the breaking load because of the elongation of inferior inserts

That's all about precision - using a specific weak link for a specific aircraft according to engineering figures determined to protect the aircraft from being damaged or destroyed by overloading.

Tost weak links in optimized format combine the following improvements:
- Longer service life
- Made of high-quality certified aircraft steel
- Checking the cable preamble is mandatory according to SBO (German Gliding Operation Regulations); this includes the inspection of weak links
- Replace the weak link immediately in the case of a visible damage
- We recommend that the weak link insert are be replaced after 200 starts:
an insert exchanged in time is always safer and cheaper than one single aborted launch
- Always use the protective steel sleeve

That's all about making sure you don't fly with a weak link that is or has gotten "safer". And just in case you missed it the first two times:

an insert exchanged in time is always safer and cheaper than one single aborted launch

Important Notes
- Use only the correct shackles: they prevent the weak link and the steel sleeve from twisting, leading to an increase of the breaking load
- Never use two equal inserts, eg, both with round holes, in a reserve system weak link, since this would double the breaking load

Warning
Using combinations of weak link inserts from different manufacturers can double the breaking load because of the elongation of inferior inserts

That's about not going the other way. But it has NOTHING to do with the control of the flight. They're mostly talking about not DOUBLING the intended limit and ripping your plane apart.

But if you offered a $10 "strong weak link bonus", and no one would take it, then you can bet they have a legitimate safety concern that they're willing to favor over hard cash.

Well, let's look at the REAL world:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).

For some totally bizarre reason neither the gliders nor the tugs wanted all that extra safety margin. And the PILOTS were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that so the tug pilot would know that he had to fly twice as safely. For FREE ferchrisake! And notice the wording - which I hadn't quite up to now:

...said go ahead and double up...

That tells you that the muppets on the gliders had previously been pushing for stuff capable of getting them somewhat safely airborne while the fucking dickheads running the fucking Dragonflies...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

BTW, if you think I'm just spouting theory here, I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

Now consider this, Bob. All these motherfuckers pull tandem thrill rides and view legitimate solo recreational pilots as annoyances.

Wills Wing Falcon 3 Tandem
571 - max certified operating weight
457 - min legal (0.8 Gs) weak link

Wills Wing HPAT 158
319 - max certified operating weight
457 - weak link = 1.43 Gs

I can live with that just fine. And if the tandems wanna scrape the "safe" edge of the legal range I'm fine with that too. Fuck 'em. They have no legitimate business flying anyway.

Also consider this. The regs - not to mention common sense - tell you to put the fuckin' weak links on the ends of the fuckin' towlines. But not one Dragonfly I've ever seen or heard about does that. They put it between the top end of the bridle and the top of the tow mast (breakaway) or a short line extension off of the top of the tow mast. 'Cause:
- nobody's gonna tell any of those total douchebags what to do.
- who ever heard of a bridle wrapping at a tow ring?

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

I witnessed a tug pilot descend low over trees. His towline hit the trees and caught. His weak link broke but the bridle whipped around the towline and held it fast. The pilot was saved by the fact that the towline broke!

Fourth, I asked how many tows you've done from both sides of the rope.

- Only three or four. Then I experimented flying from the ends that seemed to work a lot better for me. YMMV.
- None of your fuckin' business. I don't really deal with assholes who correlate logbooks with technical competence.

That wasn't idle chit chat.

I know exactly what it was, Bob. Classic Rooney sleazebag maneuvering.

You're giving out advice...

Bull fucking shit. I'm teaching theory.

...and anyone considering it should want to know what kind of experience you actually have.

I want the person who wants to know what kind of experience I actually have to totally ignore me and kill himself at Quest, Wallaby, Florida Ridge, Lockout, Currituck, Morningside, Whitewater, Cowboy Up.

Tell me ONE THING - from the entire history of hang gliding towing - that anybody learned from EXPERIENCE that wasn't or shouldn't have been fuckin' obvious to anyone with half a brain or better with both feet planted firmly on the ground.

Fifth, I'm ignoring most of your long-winded crap (not reading it)...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC

God I love the ignore list

Not much chance you've read this far down on this one then.

...explicitly because you won't honor what other people want to say (see "First of all" above).

Fine Bob. You're not my target audience. Just my target.

Just as towing is a negotiation between two people ...

Bull fucking shit. It's two competent people flying sane certifiable equipment attempting to execute a legal, safe, efficient tow. Anything else is fringe activity valuable only in illustrating to the public the potential and/or actual consequences of aeronautical incompetence.

...so is a forum topic. Your approach to both reflects your arrested social development ... and probably some of your other pathologies as well.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15716
weak links

Davis Straub - 2009/04/26 22:05:31 UTC

Tad obviously completely lacks social intelligence and probably a few other forms of intelligence. Also, he obviously has other mental health issues.

Also his reasoning is circular and when cornered breaks out in outrageous jumps, pulling dead rabbits from flatten hats.

But on the reasonable level I think that we can all agree that weak links should be as strong as possible without compromising their function which is to keep the hang glider from being broken by tow forces (and therefore hurting the pilot).

Tad doesn't agree, but the rest of us no doubt do, that we are in a partnership with the tug pilot, and that he needs to be protected also, and therefore our weaklink has to be less than his.

I'll check my weaklinks once again, to see if they are about 1.5 G.

Davis Straub - 2009/04/25 10:57:27 UTC

BTW, it is clear that you have a mental health issue that requires you to see others as idiots. Perhaps you can just edit out those portions after you write them down?

Total fuckin' clones - 'cept Bob has a veneer through which one may have some trouble seeing unless he's really careful.