http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC
I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare. The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe 2 seconds or 50 ft, but I can't initiate pitch unless the wings are level and the glider isn't yawed (you can see the result in the landing video, I start thinking about avoiding Joe, the glider yaws almost imperceptibly and I drop a wing). Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach. I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up. I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
My other comment is that I like to make a long low final. I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground, I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient and I'm only arresting forward motion. Try jumping off a chair and running--your feet are planted to the ground. I guess that's one reason why Greblo teaches students to flare gradually and run out their landings.
I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land...
Why not? You design, test fly, certify the fuckin' gliders and write the fuckin' manuals with the instructions on how to land the fuckin' gliders. Who should be BETTER qualified to teach others how to land? If the goddam instructors aren't teaching students how to conform procedures and skills according to what's in the manuals then we have at least one really big problem.
...but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare.
1. Also to always land in the glassy smooth air which ALLOWS precise control of the glider before the idiot fuckin' flare.
2. Oh. This is still a CHALLENGE for someone who's been designing and flying gliders - 'specially super high performance ones - since the beginning of time. So where does that leave all us weekender muppets? The hospital I'm assuming?
The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe 2 seconds or 50 ft...
Conditions permitting of course. In the real world thermal XC and ground level mechanical turbulence conditions all bets or totally off of course.
...but I can't initiate pitch unless the wings are level and the glider isn't yawed...
And the air isn't glassy smooth enough for the glider to keep doing what you've just told it to.
...(you can see the result in the landing video, I start thinking about avoiding Joe...
I started thinking about avoiding Joe EONS ago. And I advise all others with interests in hang gliding to avoid him like the fuckin' plague. And the RESPONSIBLE thing to have done in that situation would've been to smack him hard enough to permanently put him out of action and make it look like an accident totally of his making.
...the glider yaws almost imperceptibly and I drop a wing). Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air...
Show me a landing training video that ISN'T shot in...
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...in glassy smooth or dead air.
...but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach.
1. Wow. Really great deal that landing conditions never require MORE than every bit of control authority that you can manage. Seems like Mother Nature isn't the total bitch everybody's always saying she is.
2. So how 'bout some of us stupid muppets? If you're fairly frequently being pushed to the absolute limits of your skills coming in at AJX...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC
Landing clinics don't help in real world XC flying. I have had the wind do 180 degree 15 mph switches during my final legs. What landing clinic have you ever attended that's going to help? I saved that one by running like a motherfukker. And BTW - It was on large rocks on an ungroomed surface.
Jim Rooney threw a big tantrum and stopped posting here.
His one-technique-fits-all attitude espoused on the Oz Report Forum has become tiresome to read. It does not work in the fucked-up world of XC landings and weary pilots.
NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:43:09 UTC
I refuse to come in with both hands on the downtubes ever again. I have had some very powerful thermals and gusts kick off and lost control of the glider due to hands on the DTs. I prefer both hands on the control bar all the way until trim and ground effect. I have been lifted right off the deck in the desert and carried over 150 yards.
Christopher LeFay - 2012/03/15 05:57:43 UTC
<rant>January's canonization of Rooney as the Patron Saint of Landing was maddening. He offered just what people wanted to hear: there is an ultimate, definitive answer to your landing problems, presented with absolute authority. Judgment problems? His answer is to remove judgment from the process- doggedly stripping out critical differences in gliders, loading, pilot, and conditions. This was just what people wanted- to be told a simple answer. In thanks, they deified him, carving his every utterance in Wiki-stone.</rant>
I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up.
What's it take to control roll as the glider's bleeding off speed on final?
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
And do we need to say anything about wheels, skids, the surface at this point? Just kidding.
My other comment is that I like to make a long low final.
And how nice it is that you only land at an LZ which PERMITS a long low final. Me? I like to keep my approach legs and final as short as safely possible so's I'm gonna be as competent and current as possible to deal with ugly RLF situations.
I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground, I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient and I'm only arresting forward motion.
Great! So what's the point? You just said:
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
so what you're saying here is that you're only flaring aggressively close to the ground in situations in which you have absolutely no need to.
Try jumping off a chair and running--your feet are planted to the ground. I guess that's one reason why Greblo teaches students to flare gradually and run out their landings.
Who gives a rat's ass why Greblo teaches any students to do ANYTHING? That motherfucker doesn't allow his victims to touch the goddam control bar until after they've racked up the forty hours he mandates for signing off Threes and one flight before he releases them from his stranglehold.
That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh??? 
