instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/30 23:29:59 UTC

Please, no speculation

Hi folks,

I understand the interest in learning the cause of this, but could we please not speculate on the forum? We have a very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Shipley) headed to Las Vegas to do an accident investigation, and when we learn what really happened we'll convey that information to our members.

But certainly not the little dead kid's family. Fuck them. What do they think THEY'RE entitled to? Maybe a gift certificate for a tandem surface tow of similar value at Mission - good for the remainder of the calendar year. Throw in a T-shirt for good measure.

He'll be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth.

Which will be that he was doing everything as typically as allowed by u$hPa SOPs and FAA regulations.

Meanwhile, please refrain from offering speculation or opinion on what might have happened, what might have been theoretically done to prevent it and so on.

- Especially anything pertaining to quality equipment and procedures and competent pilots and drivers. Sleazy ambulance chasing lawyers drool over stuff like that.

- FUCK...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/12 18:00:27 UTC

Your second statement is why.
I just buried my friend and you want me to have a nice little discussion about pure speculation about his accident so that some dude that's got a pet project wants to push his theories?

Deltaman loves his mouth release.
BFD

I get tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want that. I've been doing it for years but unfortunately the peddlers are religious in their beliefs so they find justification any way they can to "prove" their stuff. This is known as "Confirmation Bias"... seeking data to support your theory... it's back-asswards. Guess what? The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality.

AT isn't new. This stuff's been worked on and worked over for years and thousands upon thousands of tows. I love all these egomaniacs that jump up and decide that they're going to "fix" things, as if no one else has ever thought of this stuff?

But back to the root of my anger... speculation.
Much like confirmation bias, he's come here to shoehorn his pet little project into a discussion. Please take your snake oil and go elsewhere.

Tune him up?
Yeah, sorry... no.

...THEORY. Stuff that might have been theoretically done to prevent it and so on. Makes me wanna PUKE.

Emotions are raw, people are hurting...

...cockroaches are scurrying for cover...

....and uninformed speculation doesn't help anybody.

- And informed speculation is pure poison to the sport. So sit back and do nothing while u$hPa constantly walks this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention. You might well think that the effect of just one concerned and dedicated individual sitting back and doing nothing would be insignificant. But when you multiply it by a factor of ten thousand you'd be totally amazed at just how much can't be accomplished.

- Hey Mark...

-- If all your collective membership is as abysmally uninformed as you indicate here then what business do you have certifying assholes like Kelly Harrison to take little kids up on commercial tandem thrill rides? Let alone "instructing" them - which is the u$hPa pretense for this bullshit?

-- Also, you present all aspects of Kelly's operation as being "typical". How is it possible for them to be so typical while your membership is so stunningly uninformed?

-- And hell, how did Mitch get to be such an expert on safety - alone in the membership - when your organization isn't in the safety business and procedures and equipment are implemented solely on whims - with no standards, testing, analysis behind anything?

-- And what happens if Mitch gets snuffed in the totally inexplicable circumstances that snuffed his colleague Zack Marzec? Has he got an apprentice or sumpin' gearing up to follow in his footsteps / fill his shoes?

-- And how come we only hear about Mitch being flown to places AFTER somebody's been snuffed? Wouldn't be a lot more cost effective to fly him to operations to assess things and make recommendations BEFORE some little kid gets splattered along with his Tandem Instructor? How come he just sits on all his expertise and doesn't share anything in magazine articles?

-- Or is the problem that all his expertise is in cover-up, data suppression, disinformation, damage control? Hard to see anything else anyone could excel at and be recognized for in a corporation like yours.

News reports are of little use since they're written by people who have no idea how our sport works or what is typical.

Well fuck, what's stopping us from educating news reporters on...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe. Even so, we get sued periodically by people who say we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done something that would have averted their accident.

It's not just concern for meet directors and policy makers...it's about our continued existence as an association. It's about minimizing the chance of our getting sued out of existence. We're one lawsuit away from that, all the time, and we think hard about it. I would LOVE to not have to think that way, but every time a legal threat arises, it reminds me that we have a very dysfunctional legal system in this country (note: not a "justice" system...there's little justice involved) and we have to recognize that reality and deal with it.

...how our sport works and what is typical? It could only work to our advantage, create massive sympathy for our plight on a national level - at a minimum.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

Been over two and a half years now. Shouldn't we be thanked again sometime in the near future? We've been really admirably understanding and patient all this time.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/31 03:10:32 UTC

I'm not either, so I rely on the advice I get from people who are. Based on our past experience, comments in club forums and venues like this one can and will be cited in court.

And ALWAYS to your disadvantage. Never anything useful in illustrating your total innocence and tireless pursuit of typicalness. Go figure.

As an example, a comment as innocuous as "Let's all keep an eye out for each other"...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45132
HG fatality at High Rock MD

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/11/11 01:25:07 UTC

Please be careful out there; we've had another HG pilot fatality, at High Rock, Maryland last Sunday.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34243
Fatal HG crash in Tres Pinos CA 4-3-2016

Mark G. Forbes - 2016/04/06 16:41:47 UTC

Please be careful out there. We have lost four pilots already this year; a towing accident in Florida, a mid-air at McClure, a speed wing at Jungfrau in Switzerland and now this training accident.

Mark G. Forbes - 2016/04/07 21:37:50 UTC

Let's be careful out there.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45132
HG fatality at High Rock MD

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/11/11 01:25:07 UTC

Please be careful out there...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34002
Fatality reported at McClure--Ken Muscio

Mark G. Forbes - 2016/01/29 00:49:48 UTC

...let's be careful out there.

...was used to argue that every pilot present at a launch site had a duty to prevent a launched-unhooked fatal accident.

Out fucking rageous. We're supposed to be being careful out there. How the hell are we supposed to being doing that AND keeping eyes out for each other? We're being stressed to the max being careful out there and if we start keeping eyes out for each other we're gonna start dropping like flies.

And hey muppets. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you even give the APPEARANCE of looking out for anybody but yourself. It could set an extremely dangerous legal precedent. So remember... If you see something, say NOTHING. Unless, of course, it's something totally moronic like not having a hook knife for aerotowing or being clipped into a glider in line for launch without having a helmet buckled on. Then you're good to go totally nuts on the guy.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4247
Hook in failure in New Zealand

Jim Rooney - 2006/09/24 21:19:29 UTC

Ok, this thread's a million miles long already (and mostly my fault at that), so I'm not going to feel bad about making it a tad longer.

A couple things to chew on here...

There isn't one sure-fire answer.
If there was, we'd all be doing it already. This thread I think makes this obvious... every single thing people have put forth as "the way", someone else has show how it can fail. Every single one. Argue about the details, but every single one fails.

Here's the real trick of it in my book (especially with new technology, but it applies to methods too)...
Whatever you change only works on that glider/site/whatever.
What happens when you're off flying somewhere else or flying someone else's gear?

Someone suggested putting a red flag on the nose of the glider that gets removed after the hang check... this way, if you haven't hooked in, it's really obvious. Say this works for you and you get used to it. Then you borrow a glider or fly a different site on a rented glider. In your world, no red streamer means "good to go".

Take aussie vs clipin if you like... what happens when you're at a site that you can't use the aussie method with? (I can name you some cliff launches that you can't if you care). Now you're used to the security of the aussie method, and it's not there. You might say that the fear will help you, but your instincts will say otherwise (the fear is highlevel thought, and highlevel thought is the first thing that gets tossed out of your brain.. else we'd never launch unhooked in the first place).

Argue if you will about the examples (whatever), the trick of it isn't the method to me, it's how using new things doesn't work (and actually causes problems) in strange ways (like when going back to "normal" flying after getting used to the new method/device).

Enough about what doesn't work though... what does?
Since we don't have a plug that only fits one way, we fall on lesser methods, but some are better than others...

In particular... Third Party Verification.
You won't save you, but your friends might.
Not always, but they're more reliable than you.
Why do you think that airline checklists (yes our lovely checklists) are check-verified by pilot AND copilot?

That's all I got for ya.
The other topics have been beat to death here.
If there was an answer, we'd all already be doing it.

Careful Jim. While we all appreciate all ya got for us - from one of the sport's foremost authorities on unhooked launches - you seem to be treading dangerously close to "Let's all keep an eye out for each other."

And speaking of which... I notice you conspicuously say NOTHING about YOU watching out for any of your untold thousands of friends. And you don't ever recommend anybody make a practice of watching out for unhooked launches. Which is something I ALWAYS do. I'd say that there'd be ZERO possibility of anyone in range getting by me. I'm scared for other actual humans too. Total sociopaths like Jim.. Not so much.

The pilots at the site didn't know that the pilot in question was intent on launching; they thought he was just walking over to the ramp to line up first.

Joe Gregor - 2006/01

2005/10/01

Photo: Dean Funk
Whitwell

SUMMARY REPORT:
Bill Priday - 2005/10/01 - approximately 14:00
Whitwell, Tennessee
52-year-old male, H-3 - 2005/03 - AT FL PL ST TURB
Wills Wing Sport 2 - High Energy Tracer - Charlie Insider
SSE at 5-7 mph; nearly straight in and smooth

Witnesses state that the pilot was asked by several people just prior to launching if he needed a hang check, and he responded in the negative.

The accident pilot had reportedly just discovered mountain flying, having logged roughly 12 flights at four different sites.

The accident pilot - who was reportedly eager to get into the air - carried his glider to the launch point and set it down tail to the wind. He walked out to launch to look at conditions and was told they were fine. At this point no one had yet launched. A call for wind dummies was made, and the meet director was assessing conditions while awaiting volunteer non-competition pilots to arrive and perform the first launches. The accident pilot checked his harness points (parachute handle, leg straps, hook knife, etc.) assiduously. At least one witness stated that the accident pilot appeared a bit nervous both in this situation and before, while setting up his glider. When he went to his glider to get ready, one pilot who had been talking with him said, "Be sure to do a hang check." The accident pilot spent some time under his glider while it was turned around. He then lifted it, turned 180 degrees to face the ramp, and was met by a side wire crew. At this point his team leader told the accident pilot, "Do a hang check." The wire crewman on the right side reported that, after subsequently setting the glider down, the accident pilot started adjusting his VG rope and talking to the crew about how to give him feedback.

The accident pilot picked up his glider and proceeded to the launch point. Several pilots present at the scene reported they checked his hang point and it looked like he was hooked in. Several pilots present at the scene reported that there were four or five other individuals who said, "Do a hang check," or "Have you done a hang check?" In no case was it reported that he responded directly.

Conditions were pronounced fine and the accident pilot cleared his launch. He launched using the grapevine grip and the glider dove as soon as he put weight on it.

Recommendation: Always perform a full and complete hang check just prior to launching. Pilots should make full use of their wire crew, when available, to assist in evaluating their aircraft (glider and harness) for airworthiness prior to launching.

Lying goddam son of a bitch. And this is the motherfucker who archives all the magazines to digital.

And then he ran off the ramp, the glider flew away and he didn't. And then we got sued.

And our attorney was so exhausted from all the fatality report shredding that he was up late doing the night before that he was unable to get the court to understand how totally fucking absurd was an argument that a comment as innocuous as "Let's all keep an eye out for each other" should be interpreted to mean that every pilot present at a launch site had a duty to prevent a launched-unhooked fatal accident and persuade it to have such rubbish immediately dismissed.

And those guys were total fucking assholes and morons too. They attacked TTT for not launching the task at Henson - opposite Whitwell across the valley and with a tailwind, SSE at 5-7 mph, at the time. And so how come Mark isn't saying anything about THAT? 'Cause their legal representation - Tim Herr I'm guessing, 'cause he was around at least a decade before - was even more clueless, incompetent, negligent than the plaintiff's was?

And note that the "Procedure X" that they implemented in the wake of this one was:

Recommendation: Always perform a full and complete hang check just prior to launching. Pilots should make full use of their wire crew, when available, to assist in evaluating their aircraft (glider and harness) for airworthiness prior to launching.

Everybody bending over backwards to make no hint of any reference to anything remotely resembling a hook-in check.

I ask because I've seen what's happened in the past.

Hopefully you'll be seeing more of it in the future. And/Or you can just keep killing off your membership to the point at which the sport drops below critical mass. Doesn't make all that much difference to me.

Things we post in public forums can have consequences...

So I'm guessing that things I post in public forums can also have consequences. And they're structured to inflict as much damage on you motherfuckers as possible. Thank you so very much for the morale boost and encouragement.

...and I'm trying to give you some context so you understand what's at stake. Please consider that when posting.

Done. In spades.

[Tad Eareckson]

Kite Strings' foundation is mentoring and it's always been a driving force in the forum throughout its near seven year history. Zack was smart enough to know that lotsa stuff in the sport smelled real funny and sensed that his life was being put in danger and that I might mostly know what I was talking about.

We try to bring people into discussions, get them up to speed, help each other get better at what we're doing, make positive differences - procedures, equipment - out in the rest of the world.

And that, of course, is a huge threat to u$hPa and its priesthood. And they WILL react accordingly, predictably.

Competence rears its ugly head on The Jack Show...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12403
weak link table

ian9toes - 2009/06/14 15:18:37 UTC

I strongly disagree with banning the one guy who has the most knowledge about safety issues involving what I believe is the most dangerous part of our sport. I hear someone dies every year from towing. I hope SG bites his tongue in the interest of public safety.

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

We empower people as competent pilots for free. u$hPa doesn't want that 'cause:
- They don't make any money off of it.
- It:
-- cuts into their revenue from:
--- lessons
--- tandem flights
--- stunt landing clinics
--- "equipment", downtubes, Pagen book sales
-- exposes their:
--- fundamental incompetence
--- Ponzi scheme

Why sell a properly engineered aerotow release for $125 when you can sell:
- an aerotow release that you can blow:
-- while flying the glider if the tow pressure isn't too high - $140
-- under moderate tow pressure of you don't need to keep flying the glider - $160
- a:
-- backup release that won't work under any pressure that requires you to stop flying the glider - $30
-- razor-sharp cutting tool that you can pretend will slash through lines in an instant - $30
-- spool of precision fishing line that will keep you from getting into too much trouble - $20
-- tandem lesson to teach you how to pull in when your fishing line keeps you from getting into too much trouble* - $150

*Assuming you're high enough.

It's so blindingly obvious how they:

- protect, promote, reward, further inflate the bloated egos of stupid incompetent sociopaths like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney who splatters his fake wisdom all over the internet until finally succumbing to all the foot shots and shit merchants like Matt Taber who only appear in public when forced into damage control mode

- immediately move to shut down and ostracize anyone so bold as to start making anything remotely resembling actual sense

Try to get the stomp test in the fucking Wills Wing manuals implemented - sharp rocks, sand in shoes soles, duty cycles, work hardening, might break something, Red Howard... Wills Wing won't lift a goddam finger.

Stunt landings...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare. The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe two seconds or fifty feet, but I can't initiate pitch unless the wings are level and the glider isn't yawed (you can see the result in the landing video, I start thinking about avoiding Joe, the glider yaws almost imperceptibly and I drop a wing). Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach. I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up. I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

My other comment is that I like to make a long low final. I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground, I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient and I'm only arresting forward motion.

Just one man's opinion though. YMMV. And If Joe's having you fly two thousand foot mountains upright from launch to landing... He's your INSTRUCTOR. And who am I to disagree?

Can we even now IMAGINE a world...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks

Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.

...in which a legitimate big gun authority would be able to specify specific weak links for specific gliders, blast the snake oil douchebags outta the water, and remain a legitimate big gun authority?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/30 23:29:59 UTC

Please, no speculation

Hi folks,

I understand the interest in learning the cause of this...

...because I have an absolutely tremendous level of experience in making sure that nobody ever learns anything about the causes of any of these incidents. At this point we might be inclined to speculate that the deceased Tandem Hang Gliding Instructor and Student suffered fatal injuries, but let's hold off on that until a proper investigation has been completed.

...but could we please not speculate on the forum?

OK. We could speculate in front of the TV news cameras. That would be so much more fun.

We have a very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Shipley) headed to Las Vegas to do an accident investigation...

What's his very experience gonna do for us?

- Was he as experienced in truck towing as...

John Kelly Harrison - 55 - Nevada - 53375 - H5 - 1996/10/23 - Joe Greblo - PL TFL TPL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - ADV INST, TAND INST

...the guy who designed, built, operated the rig and fatally splattered the kid and himself? Wouldn't there be a really good logical case for having somebody with total shit for experience head to Vegas to do the accident investigation? (Just kidding. We always get much better reports from corporations investigating themselves.)

- Cite one single issue from one single glider fatality report from anywhere in the history of the sport that required EXPERIENCE to identify and understand. Show me anything that couldn't be identified and completely understood by any halfway intelligent junior high kid.

- If these issues are so fucking high level complex that they can only be understood by a very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Shipley), Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney then how do you justify having Vegas tourist parents signing waivers on behalf of the eleven year old kids their never gonna see alive again? How can there possibly be such a thing as informed consent?

...and when we learn what really happened we'll convey that information to our members.

Why just our members?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/30 23:21:56 UTC

Here's how it really works:

- Member submits an accident report. Could be the pilot who had the accident, or some other witness.

- Accident report is sent to Tim to maintain legal privilege. Tim reviews the report and determines whether there's significant legal risk associated with it. He may redact certain parts (personally identifiable information, etc.) if in his opinion exposure of that information poses a risk to us. If the report is very risky, he may decide that it can't be shared further, and will notify the ED about it. He may also notify our insurers if he sees a potential for a claim, as is normal practice for any incident where we are aware of such a potential.

- Redacted report goes to the accident review chairs, for incorporation into periodic articles in the magazine. Articles focus on root causes of accidents, not on personal narratives or details.

The whole procedure is outlined in SOP 03-16, which you can read by logging into the USHPA website and clicking on "Policy Manual".

You've already determined at this point that your very experienced tow administrator will find no significant legal risk associated with the report, no certain parts will have needed to be redacted, no risk to you will be posed by any exposure of information... So we can only conclude that the report will cast u$hPa in the most glowing of terms. So shouldn't you make it totally and widely public to advertise your world class oversight of the sport and...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/12 14:49:58 UTC

One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG. MOST views on this site are NOT from members but from visitors, they have no ignore button.

Having Tad run around every day giving the impression that there is a massive weekly slaughter of pilots at tow parks due to their horribly dangerous devices surely doesnt promote HG. Especially when the safety records are quite excellent.

Like Jim said, theyve gone a decade with no fatalities at their tow park. Pretty damn good I say.

Yet listening to Tad, you would think guys were dying all over the place
He's been nothing but misleading and negative and ignored multiple warnings from me. So He's GONE

...stimulate a surge in participation? Especially with respect to people of varying ages?

He'll be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth.

Oh. So we already know he won't be working AGAINST two of the local instructors there to get to the truth. How?

These are obviously tandem truck guys or they'd be totally useless to the investigation, right? So what if it had been one of them who'd splattered himself and the kid at Jean Lake? One of the two local instructors there with whom Mitch would be working to get to the truth would be Kelly Harrison, right? And after Mitch had gotten to the truth he'd have had Kelly's tandem ticket pulled, right?

Meanwhile, please refrain from offering speculation or opinion on what might have happened, what might have been theoretically done to prevent it and so on.

Why? Mitch will be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth - neither of whom was within twenty miles of Jean Lake when the fatal injuries were suffered. So won't a substantial chunk of Mitch's report be based on speculation and opinion? And infinitely more biased towards cover-up speculation and opinion?

Emotions are raw, people are hurting, and uninformed speculation doesn't help anybody. News reports are of little use since they're written by people who have no idea how our sport works or what is typical.

Pity Kelly was splattered along with his Tandem Student. We could've had a report of tremendous use written by a someone with a top notch idea of how our sport works and what is typical. What a tragic loss to the sport - and aviation in general.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

Sure ya wanna thank me for my understanding?

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/31 03:10:32 UTC

I'm not either, so I rely on the advice I get from people who are. Based on our past experience, comments in club forums and venues like this one can and will be cited in court.

Google: " "Kelly Harrison" "Arys Moorhead" ". See where Kite Strings comes up in the results.

As an example, a comment as innocuous as "Let's all keep an eye out for each other out there"...

A comment AS INNOCUOUS AS "Let's all keep an eye out for each other out there". So not necessarily that comment - for which you provide fuckin' zilch in the way of attribution. So it could also have been a comment as innocuous as "Not one of the motherfuckers running that show ever made the slightest pretense of having anybody comply with u$hPa's 1981/05 hook-in check requirement."

...was used to argue that every pilot present at a launch site had a duty to prevent a launched-unhooked fatal accident.

If the alternate innocuous comment I suggested were on target that would be a reasonably valid argument.

But, what the hell, let's play along. From where did you pull it? Who said it? When?

Wow. I just googled it and got four returns - all from Kite Strings. Nothing from The Jack Show 'cause the thread's in "Incident Reports" which Jack restricted to Members Only.

The pilots at the site didn't know that the pilot in question was intent on launching; they thought he was just walking over to the ramp to line up first. And then he ran off the ramp, the glider flew away and he didn't.

And we just demonstrated from your own shit accident report in your own shit magazine that that's a near total outrageous lie so how 'bout that totally unattributed quote that nobody's ever heard of before?

And then we got sued.

When's "then"? After the comment as innocuous as "Let's all keep an eye out for each other out there"? Or after Bill's glider flew away and he didn't?

This fake comment presented by this professional u$hPa sleazebag could've been made prior to the unhooked launch incident, after the incident and before the lawsuit was filed, after the lawsuit was filed and before court proceedings, during proceedings, after settlement, next September.

I ask because I've seen what's happened in the past.

Right Mark. So here's the bullshit Mark wants us to swallow.

- The pilots at the site didn't know that the pilot in question was intent on launching; they thought he was just walking over to the ramp to line up first. And then he ran off the ramp, the glider flew away and he didn't.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1152
Bill Priday's death

Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/02 01:58:29 UTC

I'm still asking, asking, asking, over and over, asking myself and others...how could we all be looking right at Bill---watching his every move, and not even notice there were no harness mains attached to his keel? How can our eyes be so useless? There were 5-6 people (maybe more) at launch with Bill. He had a wire crew. I'm blaming nobody and everybody, myself included.

- Bill's family members were, of course, devastated by his loss but at first...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1169#p4860
A note from a member of Bill Priday's family...

Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/05 02:31:47 UTC

[Deborah Ford, Bill's ex-wife and the mother of his children, emailed this note to me and asked that I post it to the forum.]
-----
Hello,

My name is Deborah Ford and I am Bill Priday's ex-wife. I am writing on behalf of myself and Bill's children Bill, Abigail and Anna Grace to thank each of you for all of your care for Bill at the site and after his fatal accident. I appreciate so much that the time you spent with Bill before the competition started seemed to be a happy time and we are all so grateful to each of you that the time after the accident was devoted to taking care of Bill and gathering up his personal things. Thank you for cleaning his campsite, collecting his glider, loading his truck, and later driving that truck and those belongings back to Richmond to us. Those tasks must have been heartbreaking for each of you to manage and we are so very grateful to each of you.

I read your letters on the website [the CHGPA Forum] and I could hear your pain, your anger and for some of you, a question of whether you would participate in this sport again. Please, let me share this with each of you no matter what you choose an accident like Bill's can happen to anyone who participates in a sport that is high risk. Please have your affairs in order so that if an injury or a fatality occurs, the people that you love and leave behind will know exactly what your wishes are. Make a will, make a medical directive and tell someone where these papers are kept. Bill, like all of us, I guess, thought that these accidents happen to other people. His death and the horror of this kind of death have haunted us, but on top of our tears and pain and loss and sleepless nights we were left trying to put together exactly how Bill would have wanted these events handled. He didn't leave us his wishes written down nor did he tell any of us.

Thank you for allowing me to tell you how much our family appreciates everything that you have done for Bill. We are very grateful. We hope to see many of you on Monday at the memorial service.

DEBORAH A. FORD

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1166
Thoughts on responsibility...

Deanna Priday - 2005/10/13 20:31:31 UTC

Bill Priday - from his sister

I have just returned from Bill's memorial on Monday and am dealing w/the loss of my brother. The DVD tribute is something I have watched 30 times so far and can't stop crying-it is really wonderful.

I have read and re-read everyone's postings and felt obligated to post a reply from a member of his family:

First: Bill LOVED this sport

Second, I know nothing of hang gliding, but I understand risk taking, safety AND personal responsibility. I am a Master Instructor Trainer in Scuba Diving and have logged over 2000 dives all over the world...

Third, when I dive, I take total responsiblity for my actions. If I'm in a situation that does not feel right, I don't go. If my gear is not perfect, I fix it or don't go...if the situation is outside my training, I don't go, if there is a diver that is more experienced that I am, I ask for advice. If there is a diver that has "less" experience than me...I give assistance whether he asks for it or not...as a professional diver that is my role.

Someone asked about the BUDDY SYSTEM IN DIVING....The buddy system is one that works.....the system is designed to help each other do a gear check and make sure we are "ready to dive", it is used to "feel your partner out"...are they ok w/this dive? confident? scared? and to discuss those issues...PRIOR to diving. It is also used underwater, so if an emergency situation arises, there is a helping hand, another pair of eyes and finally someone to enjoy the wonders of the u/w world w/you.

With that, Bill died because he failed to do the last step-hook in.The responsibility is his....and it ended tragically. The pain associated with the loss of my brother Bill (your friend and fellow pilot) will not ease w/all this "discussion" going back and forth about responsiblity. Everyone is right....everyone has variations in there opinion...it's OK.

There is alot of pain we are all experiencing...the family doesn't blame anyone....Bill loved hang gliding....you could see it in his face...he took that risk, he messed up and it seems like alot of things didn't happen that day that could have changed the outcome.....but he is still gone.....no more blame...we just ask that not one more family/or friend has to go thru this.

I know that the hang gliding community is taking this to heart and some good will come out of Bill's death:

* change the design of whatever you have to to make it APPARENT...you are not hooked in. I think the Priday Straps or something would be wonderful...
* Implement a BUDDY SYSTEM procedure...so someone is watching your back and follows a protocal that eveyone adheres to like we have in diving..................BWRAF (BC jacket, Weight belt,Releases, AIR ON, FINAL OK). Both you and your buddy do this together...regardless of your level of training and experience...it JUST MAKES SENSE.
*write articles on how to make it safer
*Implement what ever you have to so that : NOT ONE MORE PERSON dies because he/she wasn't hooked in.
*If someone is jumping off a cliff and is New to that particular "area"...DON'T LET THEM GO FIRST...give them a MENTOR...someone they can learn from,,, someone that is WATCHING THEIR BACK until they have the steps down.

I don't have a Will, but I'm getting one this week-Bill didn't have a Will either. If you choose to participate in a sport like this (or diving) and something happens, don't put your family through the pain of "the State taking over", "not knowing what Bill would have wanted"...it's hard enough to cope w/your loved ones death.....PLEASE...PLEASE...get a Will and write down how you would like to be buried and let someone know where it is.... It only costs around $200 ...it will be worth it.

Finally I met alot of you at the memorial service and want to thank everyone for all their support thru this. For those of you that write on this site...please remember...when something like this happens, the family goes to these sites to read them to "help understand".

Deanna Priday (Bill's younger Sister)

...accepted that Bill understood that he was participating in a dangerous sport, failed to manage the risk, was solely responsible for the harsh consequences.

- But then some unidentified well meaning moron posted on some unidentified glider forum a comment as innocuous as "Let's all keep an eye out for each other out there." And then either Bill's family:

-- realized that he was essentially murdered by all the pilots at launch because every pilot present at the launch site had a duty to prevent a launched-unhooked fatal accident - except, of course, for Bill himself.

-- was contacted by the sleazebag ambulance chasing lawyers from The Hamilton Firm of Chattanooga who'd been trolling glider forums for a comment as innocuous as "Let's all keep an eye out for each other out there." which they could use to argue that every pilot present at the launch site had a duty to prevent a launched-unhooked fatal accident - except, of course, for Bill himself. (Funny they were able to find it while we glider forum people can't.)

- And then the Tennessee Tree Toppers, Inc., United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association (USHGA), and meet director Dean Funk - but strangely not, given the argument they were making, every pilot present at a launch site (except, of course, for Bill himself) - got sued.

- And then because of...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe. Even so, we get sued periodically by people who say we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done something that would have averted their accident.

It's not just concern for meet directors and policy makers...it's about our continued existence as an association. It's about minimizing the chance of our getting sued out of existence. We're one lawsuit away from that, all the time, and we think hard about it. I would LOVE to not have to think that way, but every time a legal threat arises, it reminds me that we have a very dysfunctional legal system in this country (note: not a "justice" system...there's little justice involved) and we have to recognize that reality and deal with it.

...the very dysfunctional legal system in this country (note: not a "justice" system...there's little justice involved) u$hPa had to fork out bigtime while every pilot present at the launch site (including, of course, for Bill himself) - got off SCOTT FREE! Where the fuck is the justice in that!?!?! u$hPa's not even in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and can't be. Stepping into that morass would be a recipe for extinction of our association. It just establishes rules which they think will improve pilot safety. And if they're wrong?


http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png


Who amongst us is perfect? Let he who has never fatally splattered an eleven year old tandem student into a dry lakebed cast the first stone!

Things we post in public forums can have consequences, and I'm trying to give you some context so you understand what's at stake.

Goddam right. Fuckin' lawyers fraudulently tarnishing our otherwise gleaming safety record.

Please consider that when posting.

Yeah, better not post anything about any flight that doesn't end up with a spot no-stepper on the old Frisbee in the middle of the LZ - preferably with no speculation as to how it was pulled off.

http://www.kitestrings.org/post1473.html#p1473
Marion County News - 2006/10/31
Lawsuit filed after hang gliding death

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17092
Crash at Questair

Jim Rooney - 2010/06/29 18:48:47 UTC

Alfie,
Please out this person.

Placing public image over safety is unconscionable.
Protecting him with silence isn't much better.

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png


http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49837
Jim Rooney tandem paraglider incident in New Zealand

Jim Rooney - 2016/10/01 05:55:48 UTC

Up from surgery... Plates on L2 while it heals, will come out after. Feeling good.
I won't comment on my crash just yet. Maybe after the CAA investigation.

Just posting here too let people know that I'm doing well.

In the unlikely events that you achieve enough of a physical recovery and find some moron stupid enough to employ you in some aviation related capacity you better make damn sure the word doesn't spread more than a mile or two. And good job on finally wising up enough to keep your fuckin' mouth shut regarding educating all us stupid muppets - MATE.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35697
"Fly Like There's No Tomorrow" - Words of Wisdom From an Elder

Rodger Hoyt - 2017/11/15 04:05:27 UTC

The following was written by an original founding member of a venerable USHPA Chapter who has a long-term perspective (40+ years) of how the sport of hang gliding has been managed since it's inception. I did not author this so don't blame me, however I do think it's important for newer pilots (those with less than 20 years in the sport) to consider where we came from and thus where we're going:

Dave Palmer - 2017/11/15 04:05:27 UTC

Our sport is dying. USHPA in their myopic determination to maintain control of our sport, and thus their bureaucratic existence, has destroyed hang gliding instruction across the Country.

The major HG schools still in existence (Wallaby & Quest) are eventually going to fold under the burden of continued declining students with simultaneous increasing USHPA & RRRG fees & costs.

Owners of Cloud 9 in Northville Michigan, Lisa & Tracy Tillman are selling their entire school, lock-stock&barrel. Why? Tracy told me, "insurance costs are ten times higher while providing one quarter of the coverage."

Cloud 9 was the first PSA certified school in the Country. Tracy & Lisa have been active pilots from 1976 and at the BOD level of the sport, but their lice's were not heeded by USHPA leadership, who insisted on a focus on competition coverage funded by instructors and schools.

At the same time USHPA did nothing to rein-in the accident rate of PGs which remain the excessive. "At a greater rate than the Vietnam War causualty rate." Tracy says. "No insurer will cover that kind of casualty or accident rate."

If this trend continues, and it can only accelerate, USHPA and it's RRRG mandatory national insurance scheme will very shortly be the end themselves, if not HG manufacturing.

While the loss of USHPA is of little consequence IMHO, the destruction of HG schools will lead to the loss of HG manufacturing, and that will be terrible for the foreseeable future of our sport.

My advise: Buy as new a glider as you can. Buy a second for spare parts. Buy plenty of down tubes. And fly like there is no tomorrow.

Because for USHPA, there isn't.

You may ask yourself, what can we do to save HG? Keep on flying. If you have the knowledge and skill and patience, and gear, teach new HG pilots to fly!

USHPA has made itself its own worst enemy. It has killed itself. But that doesn't mean that HG is dead... it will simply return to its roots, hopefully to re-grow and renew itself just as it began the first time 40 years ago!

Individuals will spring up to teach new students, new pilots and we'll find new sites if necessary and continue to fly established sites where we can.

A post script to this story is that Tracy and Lisa Tillman are now teaching general aviation and towing sailplanes at their home site in Michigan - profitably, without the demands of insurance and the USHPA! Tracy tells me that there is still One 914 Dragonfly tug and numerous Hang Gliders for sale listed on Hang Gliding.org. Although he is wistful about the loss of Hang Gliding in the flatlands he is encouraged by his now well-established aviation instruction...he too foresaw the collapse of USHPA and begin his broader aviation activities years ago.

Subj: Re: [Tow] AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Date: 2009/05/10 02:08:52 UTC
From: cloud9sa@aol.com
To: skysailingtowing@yahoogroups.com
cc: GreggLudwig@aol.com, lisa@lisatateglass.com

Hi Tad.

I'm Tracy Tillman, on the USHPA BOD, on the Tow Committe, and I am an Aviation Safety Counselor on the FAA Safety Team (FAAST) for the Detroit FSDO area. As a rep of both the USHPA and FAA, I would like to help you, USHPA, and the FAA improve safety in flying, towing, and hang gliding.

The FAA gets a lot of letters of complaint from a lot of yahoos. For best effect, I suggest that you describe in your letter (and also post to the skysailingtowing group and share with the USHPA Tow Committee) your areas of expertise (if any) related to this issue, and list your qualifiications, logged hours, and currency in certain categories, such as:

1. hang glider pilot rating and logged hours
2. hang glider aerotow rating, logged hours, and logged number of tows
3. hang glider tug pilot rating, logged hours towing, and logged number of tows
4. hang glider aerotow administrator appointment date
5. hang glider aerotow supervisor appointment date
6. hang glider tanderm instructor rating, logged hours of aerotow tandem instruction, and logged number of instructional flights
7. airplane pilot license ratings and logged number of hours
8. airplane tow pilot endorsement date, logged number of hours towing with airplane, logged number of tows
9. sailplane tow pilot license ratings, logged number of hours, logged number of tows.
10. sailplane instructor license date, logged number of hours of instruction, logged number of instructional tows
11. any other flying or engineering-related credentials that you may have as evidence of your competence to make these claims.

(BTW, if you have an AT hang glider rating or above the you would/should have received the USHPA Aerotow Guidelines as part of your instruction from the person who taught you to aerotow and/or gave you your AT rating, and you should currently have access to them via the packet that is accessible to you on the USHPA web site, if your AT or higher AT-related ratings and appointments are current.)

It would also be good for the FAA and USHPA to know what kind of ultalight or sport plane tug and airplane you use for towing hang gliders and sailplanes with at your operation (if any), along with a general description of your towing operation or who you provide towing and instructional services for (if any).

Additionally, if you want to really present a convincing argument, you should also: (a) get other experts to co-sign your letter, such as those who have some or most of the aerotowing-related credentials listed above, who have been doing this for many years with many students, and who support your argument; and (b) present reliable data based on valid research showing that there is a significant difference in safety with the changes that you recommend. Supportive comments from aerotow experts along with convincing data can make a difference. Otherwise, it may seem as if your perception of "the sky is falling" may not be shared by most others who have a wealth of experience and who are deeply involved in aerotowing in the US.

This information would also be very helpful in convicing the USHPA and others to take your complaint seriously. Most of the individuals who serve on the USHPA Towing Committe have most of the credentials listed above, so it will be great for you to let them know about your similar credentials and depth of experience, too. If you do not have those credentials, it will be a simple matter for the USHPA Tow Committee to respond to the FAA to discount your complaint, so it will be very important for you to present this information in your letter to the FAA and to others now.

The best way to make change is to get involved, and join the Tow Committee at its meetings. That's what people who really care do to make change. Such is the nature of the great opportunities we have to make a difference in the US (although it means having to spend time, money, and effort, compared to the ease of just sitting in front of a computer.)

Good luck with your endeavor, and regards,

Dr. Tracy Tillman
USHPA Director, Region 7
FAA Detroit FSDO FAAST Aviation Safety Counselor

Suck my dick, Trisa.

Finger Lakes, Ridgely, Felipe Amunategui, Dunnellon, Cloud 9...

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35709
USHPA Accident Reporting ?

NMERider - 2017/11/19 02:05:32 UTC

Buy the USHPA digital archive:
http://ushpastore.com/collections/frontpage/products/ushpa-magazine-archive?variant=19346102599
Read the decades of extensive accidents reports in past issues until it stopped. There is almost nothing new happening since then. SOS--different day.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35712
HG Mistakes to Be Aware Of

Robert Moore - 2017/11/19 03:10:28 UTC

Overall, I agree with his suggestion. Those of us who have been doing this for long enough see many of the same mistakes repeating through the years. I think, however, there may be some mistakes which are not so common, but still tend to bite advancing pilots. I think it would be great to list and discuss as many as we care to.

Rubbish. u$hPa has spent decades developing and refining its SOPs, instruction, instructors to properly prepare its students and pilots for safe hang glider operations. And if you wanna know what needs to be watched out for you need only look at the instruction.

The only but ever present danger to the hang glider pilot is that of missing the primary LZ and needing to abruptly stop his glider in the appropriate safe spot in the nearby narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place. And to do this one needs to be fully upright no lower than two hundred feet with his hands on the control tubes at shoulder or ear height keeping the glider straight and level and adjusting his glide to land in the center of the fifty foot diameter safe spot with a perfectly timed flare - just as he's practiced for landing on the old Frisbee in the middle of the primary LZ every previous flight of his career from Day One on.

In tow launching there's not much point in developing skills because whatever you have will inevitably fail you in an inevitable life and death lockout situation so you just use a Standard Aerotow Weak Link which will break before you can get into too much trouble.

And if you perceive this as the total load o' shit that it is - and you obviously DO or you wouldn't be having these perennial discussions - you need to question how the sport is being controlled and managed and stop wasting your time with crap like this.

And like Jonathan said... SOS. People aren't inventing any new ways to crash gliders and kill themselves, none of this stuff is rocket science, you collectively bent over backwards to avoid and ignore all the easy fixes then and you're all doing much better jobs of it now.

P.S. And without a peep all you Jack Show motherfuckers in good standing let that son of a bitch put the Incident Reports subforum off limits to everybody barred from his Living Room.

P.P.S. Funny I don't hear any of you Jack Show motherfuckers imploring Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney to take a break from whatever critical endeavors are now occupying his valuable time to come back and finish getting everyone straight on all things hang gliding.

P.P.P.S. Also a bit odd that he doesn't seem to taking the initiative unbidden. Any thoughts on why?

P.P.P.P.S. And anybody who takes issue with my characterization of hang gliding "instruction"... Somebody show me a video of anybody being "taught" anything that's gearing the "student" for something other than doing a spot no-stepper on the old Frisbee in the middle of the LZ at the end of a long straight final.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues

Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

We're re-working the accident reporting system, but again it's a matter of getting the reports submitted and having a volunteer willing to do the detail work necessary to get them posted. There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.

Right Mark. Only the elected u$hPa Board members and their committees would have the capability of addressing crash issues with better procedures, standards, equipment, training. It's not like you could get any ideas from individual pilots and/or take looks at what people are doing in other corners of the planets.

And it's also not like a competent plaintiff's attorney could do likewise and just as effectively get nooses around the necks of any of you sleazy serial killing motherfuckers even more effectively.

So obviously there's no fuckin' way you're gonna stop at pretending to walk some line while wrestling with the moral dilemma between letting more eleven year old kids get splattered in front of their families and keeping your criminally negligent asses covered to the max.

You're gonna do everything possible to crush any and every effort to move anything in the slightest possible direction from any and every quarter while constantly lowering the bar for everyone involved in the sport. And if that isn't a recipe for extinction I can't imagine anything else would be.

Really hard to imagine how you total pieces o' shit manage to live with yourselves.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35773
Non-USHPA Tandem Exemption

Mike Jefferson - 2017/12/16 19:02:20 UTC

I do remember attending your clinic at Andy Jackson. I had taught about 75 ushpa pilots at that time and was still open to suggestions and the sharing of information between instructors. I have since taught over 100 ushpa pilots with several of them becoming very successful instructors and top notch competition pilots. Many instructors don't want to work with or share what they know with other instructors and that is sad. One of my tipping points was the lack of help from the ushpa in dealing with instructor conflicts and concerns. The ushpa seems to continually allows terrible instructors to keep teaching after several accidents including deaths and then harasses others for not going along with their petty rules. They enforce rules on some but allow others to do what they want, right John Simpson? They take over our flying sites and actually told me I would not be able to teach if I did not join PASTA. The only requirement for PASTA membership is the ability to write a 500 dollar check every year.

Pilots have been talking about creating a new organization for years. Some have actually brought together large groups but failed to follow through with insurance and the procurement of flying sites. I have purchased insurance on my own and I have taken back my flying site, Ed Levin Park. I think it is time to move on. The ushpa has gotten too big and too corrupt to help me grow the sport, so I am out.

Anybody remember T** at K*** S****** saying stuff like that when saying stuff like that wasn't cool?

I think we're seeing a major snowballing acceleration of the collapse of the Ponzi scheme. The better it gets, the better it gets squared.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32673
This is terrible

Dave Pendzick - 2015/03/30 17:42:41 UTC

This is not going to end well for us...

And a Happy New Year.

P.S... Suck my dick, Jack.

[Steve Davy]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=35776
MN's recreational land use laws

Dan DeWeese - Region 3 Regional Director 2016-2018 - 2017/12/18 16:01:01 UTC

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35824
USHPA Chapter Renewal Blues

Mark G. Forbes - 2018/01/12 03:17:30 UTC

No matter what I say, I'm sure there's a way you'll misinterpret it and spin it as some sort of fault of USHPA.

I'm thinking you'd hafta work anything pretty hard to spin it as NOT being some sort of fault of u$hPa.

But to attempt to answer the question, it is true that we have not in the past done a complete and thorough job of reviewing the details of every flying site.

What good would it do? You're not and cannot be in the business of keeping pilots "safe" so how would you know what to look for?

Under our new insurance program, we are taking a much more comprehensive look at site conditions, known hazards, potential hazards and how those hazards are communicated to pilots.

- What kind of fishing line should we be using for weak links and how should we be tying it to maximize aerotowing safety?

- So obviously in your professional and extremely thorough investigation of the 2015/03/27 Jean Lake double fatal tandem training flight you interviewed all the students left standing in line at the conclusion of the first one. How come we never heard anything about how well the known and potential hazards of such an extremely TYPICAL such operation were communicated to them?

- We've had two global impact tandem discovery flights in which unhooked students were dropped to their deaths and the instructors ended up with felony manslaughter convictions and another in which the most highly qualified and keenly intellectual hang gliding instructor in the world history of the sport failed to hook himself in and dove himself and his glider and student into the powerlines while dangling from the basetube. The latter's clearly stated and officially unchallenged position is that there is no procedure to effectively defend against this issue and one's only hope is that an oversight will be detected by one of one's friends as the point of no return is approached. Has any tandem student ever been advised accordingly? Or even just been made aware of the issue? I don't recall ever seeing anything in any SOPs.

We are using the knowledge we have gained from past accidents...

What percentage of them does Tim Herr allow you to see?

...to recommend changes such as signage...

Bigger "HOOK IN!" bricks. And use them to pave walkways to the ramps.

...spectator exclusion zones, minimum rating standards, or even things like maximum height for grass at select locations. All of this is based on data we're gathering...

...and not allowing the public or membership to see...

...about accidents and review of past accidents and claims that have arisen from them. As an example, when you've seen several training accidents that include "tall grass grabbed base tube", you might reasonably tell instructors that the site may not be used if the grass is higher than X. Keep the training hill grass mowed, guys!

That's TOTALLY INSANE. We fly foot landable aircraft, our goal is always XC, we need to be able to safely land in tall grass and narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place. Thus to increase overall safety there needs to be a MINIMUM allowable grass height. Nothing under eighteen inches. Better feedback for imperfectly timed flares, better pilots graduating from the training hills.

All of this review requires information, in far more detail than was formerly provided.

But just to select board members - need-to-know only. Nothing to the muppets of course.

And thus JR's complaint about how the process is so much more paperwork-intensive than it used to be. He's right, it is. But when I look at the documentation we're asking for, and the past claims history, there's a straight correlation between the two. We're asking because we know that incidents have happened in the past...

Do you know about Terry Mason? I never heard anything from u$hPa to suggest that he wasn't still around and doing fine.

...and we want to head them off in the future.

Well then obviously you need to be doing a lot more of whatever it was you were doing in the past.

Our past history...

Doesn't exist. 99 percent of it gets shredded by Tim Herr before anyone else gets to see it.

...suggests that the process we used to use, leaving it at the local club level without extra oversight, wasn't working.

And I have little doubt that with a Board stacked with commercial tandem thrill ride operators everything will soon start falling into proper place.

So we're changing that process and adding oversight, and so far the accident statistics indicate that it's helping.

Suck my dick, Mark. u$hPa hasn't had any stabs at legitimate accident statistics for decades and the situation further deteriorates with each passing year. And there's NOTHING that's ever gonna turn this shipwreck around before it finishes going under.

P.S. And you've got certified instructors who need to be advised / compelled to not fly students into landing environments with grass high enough to tie itself to trainer basetubes?