Weak links

[Steve Davy]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=402141#p402141
Flying Clothes

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2018/01/31 23:18:06 UTC
Region 9 Director - 2016-2018

I entertained pads for a comp where the aerotow was from pavement, fearing a line break just after takeoff but ultimately decided against because they were so uncomfortable.

By "line break" he means weak link break, but he's figured out that he best not say that.

[Tad Eareckson]

What in 1974 was the worst thing that could happen to a towed glider - suddenly and involuntarily becoming an untowed glider - in 1981 became the best thing that could happen to a towed glider. And anyone with any argument to the contrary subsequent to that point was assigned to the go fuck yourself concentration camp.

And the last time there was an appearance of any official u$hPa anemic tolerance of the concept that an Infallible Weak Link success could incorporate any element of negativity was shortly after the 1990/07/05 Eric Aasletten Birrenator triggered whip inconvenience fatality. And even then in the very magazine issue with the main report and analyses u$hPa was signaling with its magazine cover...



...and bullshit Jerry Forburger contributions that it wouldn't be tolerating that flavor of heresy denouncing Donnell Hewett's sacred tablets.

Then in the early 21st Century when:

- Dennis Pagen narrowly misses getting his sleazy pretentious ass splattered in Texas it's all about the freak circumstances in which it may not be such a good thing for the tug pilot to make a good decision in the interest of your safety

- Arlan Birkett and Jeremiah Thompson go down like fuckin' bricks at Hang Glide Chicago it's all about the issue of a glider "becoming detached"

Tad Eareckson - 2013/02/08 20:44:05 UTC

This is THE BEST opportunity we will have in our lifetimes to kill this 130 pound Greenspot "standard aerotow weak link" bullshit.

That will NEVER happen. u$hPa / mainstream western hang gliding has never been wrong about anything and that will NEVER change.

In 1981 they had to move the lower tow attachment from the bottom of the control frame to the pilot - where they'd have had it since Day One if the sport had ever had the slightest inkling of aeronautical physics - 'cause they had no choice whatsoever, BUT:
- it was done in the face of vicious mainstream opposition
- there was NEVER a hint of public apology from the mainstream forces

I predicted that untold hundreds of power structure reputations would go down the toilet when the Standard Aerotow Weak Link Ponzi scheme inevitably collapsed - which it finally did at Quest in a really spectacular manner a day shy of half a decade ago - but I was only partially right.

At first the Ponzi schemers were in disarray and didn't know how to respond.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32824
Weaklink testing

Looked for a while it looked like a precedent setting voluntary fix of an actual problem. But then the shits got their shit together and realized they needed to do four things:

- quitely get some Tad-O-Links into circulation to get gliders off the ground when they really needed to

- keep the Standard Aerotow Weak Link in widespread circulation:

-- to maintain the scam that none of these motherfuckers had really ever been flat out wrong about anything (and the opposition had never been right about anything)

-- 'cause they'd learned over the decades that they could get away with using them most of the time

- permanently shut the fuck up about:
-- weak link:
--- materials, strengths, configurations, G-ratings, regulations, SOPs, purposes, expectations
--- track records, incidents, discussions, controversies
-- the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden
-- Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney
-- Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's beloved friend Zack Marzec
-- T** at K*** S****** and Tad's Hole In The Ground

- refer to all negative consequences weak link increases in the safety of the towing operations as "line breaks"

Yeah Dan... "a line break just after takeoff". Two thousand pound Spectra towlines are much more likely to break than 260 pound towline "pressure" weak links. Happens all the time. I wonder if these assholes have conditioned themselves to speak like this on the runways. "Damn. Another line break. Need to get a new line and give it another shot."

And extra equipment to protect you from the consequences of the functioning of the focal point of your safe towing system. Gotta love it. Even ejection seat systems have nothing comparable.

Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45 UTC

I just cannot fathom how our sport can be so screwed up.

We fully understand the model now. It's all founded on snake oil marketing and all geared towards ass covering. We understand perfectly what they're doing and why and can make one hundred percent accurate predictions about what they'll do in the future and why they'll do it. And we can also predict that this dynamic will inevitable drive what's left of the sport of recreational hang gliding into virtual extinction.

Nice find, Steve. I look at a topic titled "Flying Clothes" and immediately figure I've got better things to do with my time. What a gem.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Cragin Shelton - 2011/09/03 23:57:33 UTC

Nice Reference Citation

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Do you REALLY think that there has been no progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding in 37 years? OR that an early, 3+ decade old, information book written by a non-pilot is a solid reference when you have multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion?

Well Cragin...

u$hPa - 2015/05/11

Jean Dry Lakebed Accident Report and Analysis

You are encouraged to re-read the excellent article by Mike Meier, "Why Can't We Get a Handle On This Safety Thing?" (http://www.willswing.com/why-cant-we-get-a-handle-on-this-safety-thing/). Although published in 1998, the risk mitigation analyses and approaches in the article are timeless and still applicable. Additionally, the technical information in "Towing Aloft" by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden is an excellent and complete reference on towing equipment and procedures.

Rich Hass
President

Martin Palmaz
Executive Director

Now, a wee bit after the twenty year mark, the technical information in "Towing Aloft" by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden is still an excellent and complete reference on towing equipment and procedures. Not so much as a single typo anywhere in its 374 pages of excellence to merit a second edition.

Still being sold by u$hPa; Moyes; tons of mainstream flight parks, schools, instructors.

There's never been a single finding of the slightest fault in it by any reputable individual - from within or without any of the relevant flavors of aviation. And that includes Dennis Pagen, Bill Bryden, Steve Kroop, Davis Straub, Ryan Voight, Jim Rooney, Lauren Tjaden... Your most honorable self - come to think of it.

Naturally one would expect more technological advances in the 22 year span between 1974 and 1998 than in the 20 year span between 1998 and the present... But ABSOLUTELY *NOTHING* in the latter period? Despite the fact that we have a few people...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.

A fun saying that I picked up... Some people listen with the intent of understanding. Others with the intent of responding.
I like that.

For fun... if you're not seeing what I mean... try having a conversation here about wheels.

...the best of the best, who are actually working on things. And these things are so important that:
- it saddens Jim Rooney to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on these things
- neither the things nor the masked people actually working on them can be publicly identified

And these things were apparently more critical than the extinction of Highland Aerosports, Cloud 9, and a couple other aerotow operations cause all that stuff was totally public.

And, by the way... Does it sadden you to know that Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney had the option of keeping Highland Aerosports alive into the 2016 season but didn't feel it was worth his time? (Either that or that motherfucker wasn't a tolerable option for those motherfuckers.)

C'mon Cragin... Give us the approximate year at which hang glider towing reached the pinnacle of perfection and tell us what "things" hadn't been up to snuff prior to that point. And if you have a bit more time to spare maybe you could tell us why these things were so technologically and intellectually challenging that properly addressing them required decades worth of hang gliding's collective global expertise, creativity, energy, intelligence (unlike anything else this bullshit sport has to date managed to get airborne.)

P.S. Suck my dick.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

It's no fun having an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low so we don't want this weak link too weak.

- It's so much more fun when you have an ADVERTENT low weak link break when you are so low.

What the fuck other kind of weak link break is there, Paul? An INTENTIONAL weak link break? It responds to your will? Do you hafta talk to it or does it respond to brain waves? (I'm guessing you hafta talk to it 'cause it looks like all your brain waves are tied up with writing crap.)

"Hey, I saw that weak link of yours blow at thirty feet. Was that deliberate or inadvertent? I was a hundred yards away and couldn't really tell."

Has anybody ever heard of an inadvertent sailplane weak link break?

I once had a low inadvertent RELEASE that was no fun - embarrassing and a waste of everybody's time and energy (the crap for which Ridgely rewards everybody when the cause is one of their moronic Standard Aerotow Weak Links). I had adjusted my lanyard play too tight/hair-trigger. And once when I was still stupidly buying a little into the Flight Park Mafia's "easy reach" bullshit and had my lanyard at the port corner of my control frame I experienced the most violent lockout of my life at 1100 feet and just waited for my Standard Aerotow Weak Link to blow under the rapidly increasing load. (And that was the last time I ever went up with anything within easy reach.) But none of the scores of Standard Aerotow Weak Link breaks that increased the safety of my towing operation were INADVERTENT - just majorly UNDESIRED.

- How 'bout an inadvertent low weak link break when you are high? (Which you must be to be writing moronic drivel like this.) Or an inadvertent high weak link break when you are low? Or an inadvertent high weak link break when you are high?

How do you manage to figure out the fun factor with all the possible combinations?

I guess you're talking from experience, huh Paul? Maybe you can tell us WHY you had an inadvertent low weak link break when you were low and WHY it was no fun. And I'm assuming you were straight, level, climbing normally in zilch air. What happens to the fun factor when you're climbing hard in a near stall situation or have been rolled on your ear by a pop? I'm guessing if you're climbing hard in a near stall situation and have an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low it's less than no fun but if you're and locked out on your ear it's a pretty good deal 'cause you have an advertent weak link break - instant hands free release - and just fly away. Easy as blaming a fart on the dog. Just ask...

http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7077/27082298482_cda1aba01b_o.png


...Jeff Bohl.

- We don't want this weak link too weak?

- Who's...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 01:32:20 UTC

Btw, it's nothing to do with you "counting" on the weaklink breaking... Its about me not trusting you to hit the release.
If it were only about what you want, then you could use what you like.
You want the strongest weaklink you can have.
I want you to have the weakest one practical.. I don't care how much it inconveniences you.
I don't trust you as a rule. You Trust you , but I don't and shouldn't.

...WE?

- How weak don't we want it? Can you give me some kind of number? Or do you guys just pull something outta your asses? And what's too strong?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

The lockout Lauren mentioned was precipitated by my attempt to pull on more VG while on tow. I have done this before but this time the line wouldn't cleat properly and while I was fighting it, I got clobbered and rolled hard right in a split second. There was a very large noise and jerk as the relatively heavy weak link at the tug broke giving me the rope. I recovered quickly from the wingover and flew back to the field to drop the line and then relaunched after changing to a normal weak link. I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do. Had the tug's link not broken, things could have gotten very ugly very fast. I still don't like weak links breaking when they shouldn't, but the one I was using was way too strong.

When it doesn't break when it's supposed to? Or when you bend something on the glider?

Lauren Eminently-Qualified-Tandem-Pilot Tjaden tells us...

Lauren Tjaden - 2003/12/14

This fall at Ridgely, I had a weak link break at maybe fifty feet. I thought I was going to have to land in the soybeans - the very tall soybeans - when I looked at my angle. But, my glider stalled quite dramatically almost instantly (hard not to stall when you have a break), and dove towards the ground (a bit disconcerting from so low).

...it's hard not to stall when you have a break of a Standard Aerotow Weak Link. But what the stupid bitch is really telling us is that with the glider climbing normally and the air doing NOTHING it's IMPOSSIBLE not to stall QUITE DRAMATICALLY ALMOST INSTANTLY. Would that be not fun and was Lauren Eminently-Qualified-Tandem-Pilot Tjaden's weak link too weak? And if it were did she try one that wasn't too weak or did she keeping doing the same thing over and ever expecting better results?

I'm confused, Paulen...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01

Here we go again with more of the "you're better on tow in a bad situation" BS.

Your assumptions about what we're doing on the tug end are wrong.
The #1 thing I can do for you just off the ground is GIVE YOU THE ROPE.

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.

You're saying the precise opposite of what Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney is. And I don't remember you guys ever once calling that little bitch out on ANYTHING. So what good is it for you to tell us what's obvious and everyone and his dog knows to be true while staying dead silent on the Rooney problem? Not to mention:

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Here is the requirement from the 2007 Worlds local rules (which I wrote) for weaklinks:

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07 23:47:58 UTC

The launch started on the main runway at the north end (2,000 feet long) and was normal until at approximately 50 feet in altitude when the tow plane hit extremely strong lift elevating it quickly and abruptly.

Sounds like a dust devil. So why didn't Mark - whose name you conspicuously omit from your bullshit report - wave him off, hit the dump lever, abort the tow?

Because of the length of the tow line, it was a few seconds later when Zach's glider entered the same strong lift and he was at an estimated 100 to 150 feet in altitude at this time.

So what was going on with the highly experienced tow pilot you're not naming? If it was a dust devil he'd have certainly realized it within those few seconds and aborted the tow - as highly experienced as he was. And can we identify one other aerotow in the world history of the sport in which the flight was deliberately continued into a powerful dust devil encountered at fifty feet? Even by a highly INexperienced tow pilot?

Why do you bother telling us how highly experienced he was when he hasn't done anything more extraordinary than pull a pro toad Four rated tandem aerotow instructor using the safest known weak link on the planet into a violent dust devil at fifty feet and kill him? Wouldn't Zack have been better off with a highly inexperienced tow pilot who would've chickened out when he flew into the shit and aborted the tow? Certainly wouldn't have been any WORSE off.

I guess you're a way more highly experienced tow pilot than the highly experienced tow pilot, huh Paul? So much more highly experienced that you're the one writing and putting your name on the report despite the fact that you weren't any more a witness to the incident than I was.

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

This article was peer-reviewed and approved for publication by the USHPA Towing Committee.

We don't even see the highly experienced tow pilot having peer-reviewed and approved your report for publication. Would that be because the crap you wrote is blatantly inconsistent with what the highly experienced tow pilot reported both earlier and later?

When the lift/turbulence was encountered...

Two sentences ago it was "extremely strong lift" which elevated the tug "quickly and abruptly". It was NOT "lift/turbulence". Do try to remember that when you put things in print we can go back and check what you actually said.

...the weak link on the tow line...

There was no weak link ON THE TOWLINE - motherfucker. Never in the history of US Dragonfly towing has there ever been a weak link on a towline - at either end. Are you just saying that the weak link was on the towline because you're so deep into disinformation mode that you lose track of where you should be lying and where you shouldn't?

...broke as the nose of the glider pitched up quickly to a very high angle of attack.

Bull fucking shit. The glider CLIMBED after the nose OF THE GLIDER pitched up quickly to a very high angle of attack. The weak link broke at the worst possible time, when the glider was climbing hard in a near stall situation.

Backing up to a little earlier in your fake report:

The tow aircraft was a Moyes Dragonfly with a 914 Rotax engine and was piloted by a highly experienced tow pilot. The tow line was approximately 250 feet long which is standard and Zach was using the "pro tow" method where the tow line is attached directly to a bridle on the pilot's harness and is not attached to the glider at all. A standard 130 pound test weak link was being used.

So "pro tow" is a METHOD? Not just some cheap dangerous shitrigging that a bunch of assholes figured they could get away with most of the time?

And the 250 foot standard towline wasn't attached to the glider at all? Can you name ANY glider tow configuration in which the towline is attached to the glider and not a bridle?

Not attached to the glider at all WHERE? Up on the keel where it would've routed a hundred plus pounds of towline tension to trim the nose down? Since "pro tow" is a METHOD rather than a STANDARD and you've pointed out that he as using this METHOD how can you not discuss the possibility that Zack would've had less no fun had he been using some other METHOD of hooking up behind the tug? Since the impact was fatal we certainly couldn't come off any worse by altering our standards and methods.

A standard 130 pound test weak link was being used.

How did it get to be a standard? A bunch of Quallaby shitheads just pulled something outta their stupid asses and pronounced it standard? Any chance it was one of those too weak weak links we don't want 'cause it would result in an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low that would be no fun having?

For whom is it standard? All solo gliders...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37786
Joe on plowing

Joe Schmucker - 2014/06/12 12:51:42 UTC

Generally folks guess me to be about 230 or so. In that vid, I was 280. Add a 550 reserve from Betty, a harness and rocks in my head, I'm over 400 hook-in (total flying) weight. I use a 200lb three strand weak link or they break every time.

...regardless of flying weight?

Apparently, the glider stalled or possibly did a short tail slide and then stalled and then nosed down and tumbled. Eye witnesses said the glider tumbled twice and then struck the ground with the base tube low. Due to the extremely low altitude...

Oh. Extremely low altitude. Sounds like a bad time to have an inadvertent low weak link break which would be no fun having.

...there was no time for the pilot to deploy his reserve parachute.

No shit. Appreciate your thoroughness, Paul. (Was there any time for any of the Quest crew to cushion the likely impact zone with mattresses?)

Zach was conscious immediately after the accident but died in route to the hospital.

Sounds like no fun. (Did he make any comments to that effect?) You totally nailed it a wee bit over eighteen months before the no fun event. Good thing a standard 130 pound test weak link was being used. Think how much more no fun it would've been if he'd been using a too weak one.

Beyond these facts...

...and lies and omissions...

...anything else would be pure speculation.

Fuck yeah, Paul. You gave us EVERYTHING. And if we included the stuff Mark blurted out on Day Two before the spin doctors got to him that would be PURE SPECULATION. 'Specially the stuff that flatly contradicts your "facts". And in hang gliding speculators are just a hair's breadth above child molesters.

I have personally had numerous weak link breaks on tow, both low and high, after hitting turbulence and have never felt in danger of a tumble.

Or anything else. They were just no fun. And nobody's ever suffered so much as a scraped knee in a no fun event. You just land, slap on another standard 130 pound test weak link, get back on the cart, and hope for a flight with less no fun.

I have witnessed countless others have weak link breaks with no serious problems.

PROBLEMS?!? Weak link breaks can result only in increases in the safety of the towing operations. Who ever heard of a PROBLEM stemming from an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low? Those are just arguments with no supporting evidence.

No SERIOUS problems. Just a bunch of ugly stalls, a small truckload of broken downtubes, the odd broken arm here and there. Nothing like the no fun result Zack experienced. And hell, he was conscious immediately after the accident and only succumbed to no fun en route to the...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Only later, when we're visiting them in the hospital can they begin to hear what we've told them all along.

...hospital. And succumbing wasn't all that bad when one considers that he was spared a visit by Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.

The Space Shuttle program experienced countless incidents of the foam insulation stripping off the external fuel tanks and damaging the orbiters' heat shielding with no serious problems. Until:



2003/02/01. Ten years plus a day prior to Zack's inconvenience tumble. And the takeoff was and the landing was supposed to be about 78 miles to the east of you assholes. Significant differences between those assholes and you assholes is that at least AFTER they screw the pooch they identify the problem and do something about it.

We train aero tow pilots how to handle this situation...

- We who? My understanding is that Zack was a tandem aerotow instructor whose job it was to train aerotow pilots how to handle this situation. Maybe you should contact as many of his students as possible and make sure that Zack got things right.

- If they're aerotow pilots shouldn't they already know how to handle this situation?

- You train them to handle this situation? You train them to pull the bar in when the Standard Aerotow Weak Link increases the safety of the towing operation?

-- How many cycles does it usually take before they get it right?

-- Can you show me some videos of people who haven't been trained properly / don't know how to handle the situation?

-- Take a sample of ten aerotow pilots who haven't been trained how to handle this situation and treat them to simulated weak link inconveniences. Then train them how to handle this situation. Repeat the simulations. What differences/improvements do you typically see?

- Bullshit, Paul. Neither you nor any other of your Flight Park Mafia motherfucker buddies trains anybody how to fly pro toad into a strong thermal or dust devil which pitches the nose of the glider up quickly to a very high angle of attack until the Standard Aerotow Weak Link increases the safety of the towing operation at a hundred feet. And if you did you'd be in major violation of the conditions the u$hPa SOPs specify for that bullshit requirement. You go up on tandems with two point bridles to altitude in smooth air. If you actually trained aero tow pilots how to handle this situation they'd all end up just as dead as Zack did 'cause there is no way for a pro toad with a Rooney Link focal point of his safe towing system to handle this situation.

...and I am certain that Zach had also encountered this situation many times before...

Me too, Paul. We this see situation all the time in which pro toad gliders tow into monster thermals at fifty feet and stand on their tails. Every other weekend at a minimum. Virtually always a nonevent with never more than two or three fatalities nationwide per season.

...and knew how to react properly.

Wow. He did everything right yet died en route to the hospital. Good thing he knew how to react properly.

Apparently, Zach simply hit strong low level turbulence...

Yeah, Paul. The kind of strong turbulence:
- for which we all watch the forecasts in hopes of scoring primo flying experiences
- that only pitched and lifted the glider UP - a hundred feet - and didn't roll it

...probably a dust devil that could not be seen due to the lack of dust in Florida...

- Sounds like Florida needs a lot more dust. Maybe you guys should consider spreading some along the sides of your runway.

- Guess it must've snuck by all the wind indicators...

http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7077/27082298482_cda1aba01b_o.png


...all you super safety conscious Quest operators have along your runway. Tough break.

- How 'bout the eyewitnesses? The ones you don't identify 'cause they weren't glider people - just wuffos no one would know. Did any of them report any indications of a dust devil in the vicinity?

- Suck my dick, Paul. Nobody needed dust, windsocks, streamers to know EXACTLY what the air was doing.

The launch started on the main runway at the north end (2,000 feet long) and was normal until at approximately 50 feet in altitude when the tow plane hit extremely strong lift elevating it quickly and abruptly.

You had a highly experienced tow pilot IN THE RELEVANT AIR, doing just fine, electing to continue the tow.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

Zack hit the lift a few seconds after I did. He was high and to the right of the tug and was out of my mirror when the weak ling broke. The load on the tug was not excessive as with a lockout...

And you had about 180 square feet worth of turbulence indicator staying 250 feet in front of the professional tandem aerotow instructor who had his eyes glued to it every millisecond of the tow - the way everyone and his dog does.

...but I was not surprised when the weak link broke.

There were never any real surprises on this one.

http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4174/34261733815_bfb41c49d8_o.jpg


It would've been SHOCKING to all participants, eyewitnesses, Monday morning quarterbacks if the glider HADN'T stood on its tail and gone up like a fuckin' rocket and the focal point of its safe towing system HADN'T increased the safety of the towing operation.

...the nose went too high and he tumbled at a very low altitude.

How high do you think the nose SHOULD have gone, Paul? How come we didn't hear anything about the tug's nose going anywhere?

No surprises, no turbulence, highly experienced and qualified drivers, solid aircraft - and total shit STANDARD towing "equipment" on the plane that bought it.

I wish I could shed more light on this accident but...

...that would open all of us up to massive liability issues so I'll just keep writing disingenuous crap like this.

...I am afraid...

Delighted.

...this is all we know and probably will know.

Who's WE? The Questie fucking geniuses who are so tops in their profession that the thought of bringing in a competent independent investigator would be patently absurd?

Zach was a great guy with an incredible outlook and zest for life. He will be sorely missed.

Yeah, he will be sorely missed. Now where have we heard crap like that before?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30912
Death at Quest Air

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/03 10:57:17 UTC

I met Zach up at Morningside.
Zach was hard not to like... and hard not to like instantly.

He will be sorely missed.

He will be sorely missed. By whom, Paul? Obviously not by you 'cause you haven't uttered a single word about your personal feelings about this needless criminally negligent snuffing. Who authorized you to convey the sentiment that he will sorely miss Zack? I know fer sure one person who will.

13302
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/13626862385_ae79ba296a_o.png


And Clara didn't post anything about how sorely missed Zack will be. (Also didn't appear in any of the discussions about why that lunacy should never have happened.)

We know you motherfuckers know why this happened.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

It's no fun having an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low so we don't want this weak link too weak.

Smoking gun. The Flight Park Mafia doctrine is that:
- for tandem and especially solo there's a one size that fits all
- weak links that blow every other tow are essential to the safety of the flight for both planes
- a weak link blow can never have more serious consequences for a competent pilot than an inconvenience
- anybody who crashes after an "inadvertent" weak link blow was a stupid muppet who'd have crashed a lot worse if he'd been using a Tad-O-Link
- when one of the cool kids has had a fatal inconvenience stall we'll never really know what really happened - probably an invisible dust devil

But you blurted out in public:
"It's no fun having an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low so we don't want this weak link too weak."
what you'd said to me in private:
"Those things are dangerous." - 2008/06/02
a bit over three years earlier. And all pilots of all flavors of aircraft the world over understand the meaning of "no fun" and the implications.

[Tad Eareckson]

When I first saw this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4592
Weaklinks

Tracy Tillman - 2005/02/08 19:16:10 UTC

The sailplane guys have been doing this for a long time, and there are many hang glider pilots and quite a few tug pilots who don't understand what the sailplane guys have learned over the years. It certainly would help if hang glider towing methods and training were standardized to the degree that they are in the sailplane world.

CRAP I thought, "YEAH!!! Built-in quality releases that can be actuated while maintaining control of the plane! Weak links which...

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

...protect your aircraft against overloading instead of breaking before you can get into to much trouble! FINALLY! Somebody with whom I can work.

Should've picked up on the smell though, 'cause the motherfucker had never done a goddam thing of any consequence anywhere before. All Trisa wanted to do was make tandem "training"...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1184
aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates

Larry Jorgensen - 2011/02/17 13:37:47 UTC
Air Adventures NW
Spanaway, Washington

It did not come from the FAA, it came from a USHPA Towing Committee made up of three large aerotow operations that do tandems for hire.

Appalling.

...compulsory. He wanted us to pay for his rides while he trained us to stay inside the Cone of Safety, recognize and release from lockout situations instead of trying to fix bad things because we don't wanna start over, properly respond to a weak link increase in the safety of the towing operation instead of continuing to hold the bar out in hopes of continuing to climb to two thousand feet.

I grew up in the dawn of modern hang gliding and hang glider towing when everybody did just fine - or at least a lot better than most of the lunatic crap I see today - learning and executing everything solo only and prone just about all the time. A solid 2.0 should have no problem hopping on a launch cart behind a tug in smooth conditions and acclimating on the way up. Hell, when we started aerotowing it was all solo behind high stall speed Cosmos trikes, foot launch, and pro toad - with easily reachable releases of course. And we didn't have any serious problems (although we most assuredly would have if the volume had gone up to what we later saw when the factory operations got up and running).

We got along as fine as Reliable Releases and Infallible Weak Links would allow us. Everything is still just up/down/left/right but with a bit more responsiveness as a consequence of increased speed and loading. Different feel. And it's a different feel when you move from a beginner glider to a tight double surface ship with the VG on but we don't need (and can't have anyway) tandem instruction to shepherd us through that transition.

Plus all of the factory operations that wanna sell tandem rides and "instruction" have scooter that's used for Day One, Flight One experience and instruction. And that negates the case for mandatory tandem aerotow instruction even more.

I've got precious little time playing in conventional fixed wing aircraft and zilch in the way of feel for rudder control but I think I'd be able to get a Cessna off and back on the runway in good shape in easy conditions. And if I got myself well wired into a Cessna I'm pretty sure I could handle a conventional glider aerotow and landing.

But yeah, in conventional aircraft you want an instructor up with you for a while 'cause they are more complex, heavy, EXPENSIVE; fly and stall at much higher speeds; and are poorly suited for the short hop, ground skimming stuff that's so well suited for learning hang gliding.

Short story on dual instruction:
- conventional aviation - necessary mild evil
- hang gliding - unmitigated pure evil

And now that this former u$hPa certified instructor thinks about it... I wouldn’t wanna work with the kind of individual who would benefit from tandem instruction. As a dune and hill instructor I'd get behind a sidewire and run with the student through the launch to help with roll as needed. Just as I'd:
- do for a Four when crew was appropriate and the launch allowed
- want done for myself under similar circumstances
And that's about as deep as I wanna go with tandem control hang gliding.

And one wonders what Trisa was seeing in aerotow solo flights - training and signed off - that was screaming out for mandatory tandem training. Aerotowed hang gliders are lethally unstable in roll. When the air is doing anything one is CONSTANTLY making small adjustments to stay in position - and when low PRAYING not to get hit with anything serious. You're either doing things reasonably right or the tow's gonna be over almost before it begins.

And somebody show me a video of somebody doing something wrong on an aerotow that shouldn't have been corrected before he ever went up on an aerotow.

This one:

14-40713
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2918/14633581898_157fe8ed0d_o.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1yrdDV4sI


is fairly egregious BUT:
- Nothing dangerous down low where it matters. He's actually mildly OVERcontrolling on launch and through most of the flight.
- The problems he exhibits SHOULD have been worked out on the dunes well before he got on the cart.
- He's PROBABLY a product of tandem aerotow instruction.
- The tug driver has a mirror and a release lever (in hand).

And do note that his Standard Aerotow Weak Link doesn't break before he would've gotten into too much trouble if he'd locked out thirty feet off the deck - and that nobody's suggesting that he must've been using a Tad-O-Link.

So anyway, Trisa wants us to standardize training to bring us in line with "what the sailplane guys have learned over the years". For starters the sailplane guys haven't learned shit OVER THE YEARS. What they're doing has been done since the beginning of time and none of it was anything that required years worth of learning. The fuckin' Wright Brothers - all two of them - nailed aeronautical theory and invented the airplane in the space of several years ferchrisake.

The sailplane guys require a weak link / towline / tug power FAILURE simulation at LOW altitude to make sure the student has the ability to set up and execute a safe emergency approach and landing. Trisa and its Flight Park Mafia dickhead colleagues have you do it at a thousand feet in smooth air to verify that you know how to pull the bar in when your nose is high and the wind is quiet - something you were supposed to have nailed well before you got signed off on your One. It's obviously not the least bit related to what the sailplane guys are doing 'cause the Flight Park Mafia guys won't allow you to turn your glider below two hundred feet - ESPECIALLY Trisa.

Then because of the violent backlash they got from all the 582 Dragonfly / short runway guys they had to first do the ultra-sleazy move of making tandem mandatory only if your friendly neighborhood Flight Park Mafia outlet were tandem capable. But that was so over-the-top blatant that they had to make it optional (at the discretion of your friendly neighborhood Flight Park Mafia outlet of course).

And 'cause of the fuckin' semiliterate morons u$hPa has writing and editing their SOPs we go from:

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2016/10/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-A. Special Skills attainable by Novice
05. Aerotow

-f. The candidate must also demonstrate the ability to properly react to a weak link/tow rope break simulation with a tandem rated pilot, initiated by the tandem pilot at altitude, but at a lower than normal release altitude. Such demonstrations should be made in smooth air.

to:

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2017/03/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-A. Special Skills attainable by Novice and above (H2-H5).
05. Aerotow

-g. The candidate must also demonstrate the ability to properly react to a weak link/tow rope break simulation, initiated by the pilot at altitude, but at a lower than normal release altitude. Such demonstrations should be made in smooth air.

initiated by THE PILOT. No mention of tandem. Pull your release at altitude in smooth air and survive the increase in the safety of the towing operation and you've demonstrated the ability to properly react to a weak link/tow rope break simulation.

If you fly pro toad into a monster thermal at fifty feet, get stood on your tail, have your Standard Aerotow Weak Link increase the safety of the towing operation you've been properly trained to handle the situation. And when you tumble twice and suffer fatal injuries it's cause you failed to stay current on your proper-reaction-to-weak-link/tow-rope-break-reaction-skills.

But u$hPa's one time Poster Boy for all things aerotowing has told us:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01

Here we go again with more of the "you're better on tow in a bad situation" BS.

Your assumptions about what we're doing on the tug end are wrong.
The #1 thing I can do for you just off the ground is GIVE YOU THE ROPE.

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.

So why do we need tandem or self training to be able to handle a SAFER situation? After we qualify for our Turbulence and Restricted Landing Field Special Skills do we then need to advance to Glassy Smooth Air and Happy Acres Putting Green ratings?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)

Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC

Collectively I would say that there have been well over a 100,000 tows in the various US flight parks using the same strength weak link with tens of thousands of these tows being in competition. Yes I know some of these have been with strong links but only the best of the best aerotow pilots are doing this.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).

They've painted themselves into so many corners with so many blatant contradictions and bogus predictions of doom concerning the widespread use of Tad-O-Links that no one can ever say anything about anything...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35855
Flying Clothes

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2018/01/31 23:18:06 UTC

I entertained pads for a comp where the aerotow was from pavement, fearing a line break just after takeoff but ultimately decided against because they were so uncomfortable.

...with a foundation in reality. And let's see just how well and long this flavor of sport aviation survives in total ass-covering non-pilot corporate lawyer mode.

[Tad Eareckson]

I/We've always said that all of this Official u$hPa Shit only works in glassy smooth air - if then.
- Christopher LeFay Five Second Rule
- tow launches
- Reliable Releases
- easy reaches
- Infallible Weak Links
- pro toad bridles
- Towing Aloft
- long safe finals
- spot stunt landings
- old Frisbees in middles of LZs
- perfect flare timing
- Wills Wing Easy Flyer
- focusing
- anything involving Joe Greblo
- paragliders

And you won't find any arguments from the aerobatics guys.

Reality only openly rears its ugly head in the culture at mountain launches which are so inherently dangerous that all pretenses are dropped. The places are festooned with streamers, we use crews on our wires, demand three second updates on pressure, carefully shoot for cycles in which the air is as smooth as it's gonna get. We can choose the instant we launch and - because of slopes, cliffs - tend to quickly distance ourselves from the hard stuff.

Compare/Contrast landing in which we tend to have little to no say regarding timing (launching: optional / landing: mandatory) and are within striking range of the firm and hard stuff a lot longer.

So...

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

And then...

Donnell Hewett - 1980/12

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation"...

Solution...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:15:12 UTC

Oh, in case it's not obvious (which it doesn't seem to be), once someone starts telling me what the "sole" purpose of a weaklink is, I tune them out as they have no clue what they're talking about.

Weaklinks are there to improve the safety of the towing operation, as I've stated before.

Any time someone starts in on this "sole purpose" bullshit, it's cuz they're arguing for stronger weaklinks cuz they're breaking them and are irritated by the inconvenience. I've heard it a million times and it's a load of shit. After they've formed their opinion, then they go in search of arguments that support their opinion.

Stop hearing the "arguments". / Ignore the physics and data.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/message/11564
Question

Zack C - 2010/11/07 04:40:14 UTC

I think stalls near the ground are among the most dangerous things that can happen to a fixed-wing aircraft.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC

The accepted standards and practices changed.

Problem solved.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Cragin Shelton - 2011/09/03 23:57:33 UTC

Nice Reference Citation

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

Do you REALLY think that there has been no progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding in 37 years? OR that an early, 3+ decade old, information book written by a non-pilot is a solid reference when you have multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion?

But:

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2016/10/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
08. Intermediate Hang Gliding Rating (H3)
-B. Intermediate Rating - Required Witnessed Tasks
02. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge

l. Has practiced and demonstrates gentle stalls and proper recovery under the direct supervision of an instructor or qualified observer, at least 500' from any object.

Two circumstances in which the collective US hang gliding wants to make sure you're well clear of the hard stuff. For a Two verging on Three deliberate GENTLE stalls at the pleasure of the candidate with a MINIMUM clearance of half a grand away from ANYTHING...

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2016/10/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-A. Special Skills attainable by Novice
05. Aerotow

-f. The candidate must also demonstrate the ability to properly react to a weak link/tow rope break simulation with a tandem rated pilot, initiated by the tandem pilot at altitude, but at a lower than normal release altitude. Such demonstrations should be made in smooth air.

At altitude and in smooth air only upon the determination of the highly qualified and experienced tandem aerotow instructor. (Ooh look! He's pulled in a fair bit now. Good time to initiate a weak link/tow rope break simulation.)

Not even for paraglider collapse and recovery drills do they say anything about clearance.

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2016/10/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
16. Advanced Paragliding Rating (P4)
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks
02. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge

-j. Demonstrates significant asymmetric wing collapses (50% of the wing span) with directional control.

Probably though 'cause paragliders are so inherently deadly that it never occurred to any of these motherfuckers that anybody would need to be told not to pull any stupid shit either with under a grand's worth of clearance or in anything but glassy morning or evening conditions.

So yeah, Cragin. Your u$hPa douchebag buddies DID inadvertently affirm what Richard Johnson said 44 years ago in an era in which common sense stood a snowball's chance in hell.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

It's no fun having an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low so we don't want this weak link too weak.

And it's amazingly interesting and telling that no one's ARGUING for more realistic training exercises - say under fifty feet...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Marc Fink - 2011/08/28 21:11:09 UTC

I once locked out on an early laminarST aerotowing. went past vertical and past 45 degrees to the line of pull-- and the load forces were increasing dramatically. The weaklink blew and the glider stalled--needed every bit of the 250 ft agl to speed up and pull out. I'm alive because I didn't use a stronger one.

...in midday thermal conditions. Along with the unwritten but universally understood law that there will be no further public discussions of anything pertaining to weak links...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35855
Flying Clothes

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2018/01/31 23:18:06 UTC

I entertained pads for a comp where the aerotow was from pavement, fearing a line break just after takeoff but ultimately decided against because they were so uncomfortable.

...that went into effect in mid 2013.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Cragin Shelton - 2011/09/03 23:57:33 UTC

Do you REALLY think that there has been no progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding in 37 years? OR that an early, 3+ decade old, information book written by a non-pilot is a solid reference when you have multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion?

Hey Cragin...

In the Sixties and early Seventies we were flying the SR-71, sending people out to the moon and bringing them back, shooting satellites out around the solar system.

Take a look at the most advanced ships we have right now and tell me:

- why we couldn't have had them in 1970 if we'd poured the resources into development

- what technology we have that required much in the way of thought process

- all about the really awesome aerotow equipment we can purchase from the fucking geniuses at Quest, who've been perfecting aerotowing since the beginning of time, and/or Wills Wing, who don't design their gliders to be motorized, tethered, or towed

Tell me whom I should consult to find out what:
- the purpose of a weak link is
- I should be using
- my expectations of it should be

Name ONE highly experienced instructor from anywhere in the history of the sport who's made a contribution to it beyond telling a bunch of gullible bozos how to perfect their flare timing and/or utilize their gliders as crush zones.

Make a case that the commercial monopoly powers who've hijacked and gained virtual total control of the sport - with the complicity of useless Industry cocksuckers such as yourself - aren't doing as much as possible to move it backwards and send its current path to extinction.
---
P.S. - 2018/02/27 15:40:00 UTC

The multiple high experience current instructors - or reasonable facsimilies - involved in the discussion:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

in order of appearance:
Lauren Tjaden
Paul Tjaden
Sam Kellner
Marc Fink
Jim Gaar
Jim Rooney
Brad Gryder
Christopher LeFay
Tommy Thompson (Whitewater)
Bart Weghorst
Bille Floyd
William Olive
- mostly. Tommy can probably get by as useless but relatively harmless.

[Steve Davy]

in order of appearance:
Lauren Tjaden
Paul Tjaden
Sam Kellner
Marc Fink
Jim Gaar
Jim Rooney
Brad Gryder
Christopher LeFay
Tommy Thompson (Whitewater)
Bart Weghorst
Bille Floyd
William Olive

During the life and ministry of Davis in the 21st century AD, the apostles were his closest followers and became the primary teachers of the gospel message of Davis.

[Tad Eareckson]

Hey Cragin...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Cragin Shelton - 2011/09/03 23:57:33 UTC

Do you REALLY think that there has been no progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding in 37 years? OR that an early, 3+ decade old, information book written by a non-pilot is a solid reference when you have multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion?

Here's Davis's take on the first involved of the multiple high experience current instructors...

Kinsley Sykes - 2011/08/25 04:12:33 UTC

An eminently qualified tandem pilot reported a random incident that we all could learn from

...involved in the discussion:

http://ozreport.com/17.114
Apology to Lauren Tjaden

Davis Straub - 2013/06/07 13:40:06 UTC
Quest Air

Paul Tjaden said he would appreciate an apology from me for calling his wife the weak link at Quest Air. I apologize.

And Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

...to understand what's what and who's who.

By the way, Davis... The weak link is the focal point of a safe towing system and...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

...we applaud the efforts of Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey to improve the safety of aerotowing by using the best possible weak link material to achieve the most effective protection in the history of hang glider aerotowing. So why are you apologizing to Lauren for something that's so obviously a deeply heartfelt compliment?

The safety focal point of the Bailey-Moyes Dragonfly is its...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart

Jim Rooney - 2007/09/01 02:39:53 UTC

Which brings us to the reason to have a 914 in the first place... you need one.
Something made you get a 914 instead of a 582. 914s are horribly expensive to own and maintain. If you own one, you need it... it's a safety thing.

...turbocharged four-stroke Rotax 914 engine - the thing that gives it and safely maintains steady high power, especially through the launch phase. (Strangely, the precise and polar opposite of what the glider has as the focal point of its safe towing system.) Would it be an insult to have called Paul's wife the Rotax 914 at Quest Air and would you need to be apologizing for that obvious compliment?

So let's take a look at the second appearing of the dozen listed multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion. (I rather doubt that Paul was ever a u$hPa certified instructor but he's the motherfucker who put his name on the 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality report so as far as I'm concerned he's the highest ranking of the multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion.)

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly 20 years and I can say that the steel ring, polished or not, has a greater tendency to wrap than the small aluminum carabiners. There are other obvious reasons a heavy steel ring is not a great idea swinging around at the end of a 250 foot line.

On the chest line we normally run a double weak link on one end just as we do with the primary. This is probably not the optimum situation and can and does lead to the weak link on the Dragonfly tow bridle breaking before that one will break. Having the rope is not a big problem if you have altitude but can be an issue down low. Although it is easy to get rid of with the chest barrel release, perhaps we will reduce the strength of the chest weak link to one loop. It's always a balancing act. It's no fun having an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low so we don't want this weak link too weak.

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly twenty years and they're still so fucking stupid that they configure for THIS:



flavor of welding the tandem glider's bridle to the tow ring - which they feel is a big enough fucking deal to merit a major Davis Show incident report.

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing since the beginning of fucking time and the collective intelligence of global Dragonfly aerotowing hasn't yet been able to figure out how to get the crap in the front...

http://ozreport.com/5.126
Flytec Dragonfly

Steve Kroop, Russell Brown, Bob Lane, Jim Prahl, Campbell Bowen - 2001/07/15

Regarding the lateral strength of the tail section of the DF. The tail section of the DF is designed so that it can accept inline as well as lateral loads. Furthermore the mast extension, which is part of the tow system, is designed to break away in the event of excessive inline or lateral loads. The force required to cause a breakaway of the mast is roughly equivalent to the force required to break the double weaklink used on the tail bridle More simply put, the mast of the DF would break away long before any structural damage to the aircraft would occur.

...to hold longer than the crap in the back - in compliance with one of the most obvious and fundamental of aerotowing regulations and SOPs. Two much of a BALANCING ACT even for Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey.

Hey Paul...

On the chest line we normally run a double weak link on one end just as we do with the primary.

So aren't ya gonna tell us what we ABnormally run on one end?

This is probably not the optimum situation and can and does lead to the weak link on the Dragonfly tow bridle breaking before that one will break.

- But just PROBABLY. Who really knows then? It certainly COULD BE the optimum solution. What do the real experts have to say on this (and who are they)?

- How very odd that the world's foremost hang glider aerotug - purpose designed and built by hang glider industry people - doesn't have specifications for these configurations in its owner's manual.

- How often? A secondary weak link identical to the primary can ONLY be a factor after a primary bridle wrap.

- So how:

-- often are you having primary bridle wraps?

-- much thought have those of you who've been involved in perfecting aerotowing for twenty years put into wrap resistant bridle design? (Just kidding.)

- At this time of writing you total fucking assholes are using a double loop / four strand primary bridle weak link in the back and a three strand tow mast breakaway protector up front. So ANY time your weak link "system" decides to keep you from getting into too much trouble the glider's getting the rope. And if you're using the same weak link on the secondary bridle that you do on the primary the glider's even more getting the rope due to the apex angle issue.

Having the rope is not a big problem if you have altitude...

Nothing is. Even THIS:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8819/18267685796_64156e9c91_o.png


wasn't a big problem until they didn't have any altitude left.

...but can be an issue down low.

No shit, Sherlock.

Although it is easy to get rid of with the chest barrel release...

Sure. It's right there...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

...within easy reach. (Liar.)

...perhaps we will reduce the strength of the chest weak link to one loop.

- Perhaps. And perhaps you'll let us muppets know when you do so we can make sure things are being run more optimally at all our other operations.

- Yeah, hang glider aerotowing weak links can only be varied in terms of strands of pre 130 pound Greenspot.

It's always a balancing act.

How come it never is in sailplane aerotowing operations?

It's no fun having an inadvertent low weak link break when you are low so we don't want this weak link too weak.

Bull fucking shit. Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney tells us:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

So obviously he wouldn't be fixing one problem by giving us a no fun issue.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things.

Yeah Jim. It's a real bitch. Maybe if the few people who are actually working on things actually accomplished anything - like figuring out how to have aerotow system weak links blow in proper sequence - the rantings of the fanatic fringe wouldn't be able to mask them so well and you wouldn't be so saddened.

P.S. Did you notice that you just did a pretty good job of identifying yourself as one of the many people who are NOT actually working on things?

http://ozreport.com/5.126
Flytec Dragonfly

Steve Kroop, Russell Brown, Bob Lane, Jim Prahl, Campbell Bowen - 2001/07/15

It was mentioned that pilots have been injured as a result of sudden line release. My self, as well as the 4 other experienced tug pilots watching over my shoulder as I type this, are unaware of anyone who has gotten into trouble as a result of a sudden line release. In fact, a sudden line release would only alleviate any problems a tow pilot may be experiencing. Incidents of tug pilots incorrectly chopping power should not be confused with a sudden line release.

It was mentioned that pilots have been injured as a result of sudden line release.

By whom? Who's mentioning this? Why aren't you naming the source(s) of these vile falsehoods so we know who they are and be able to easily dismiss all the other total crap they spew?

My self, as well as the 4 other experienced tug pilots watching over my shoulder as I type this, are unaware of anyone who has gotten into trouble as a result of a sudden line release.

Well if you your self, as well as the four other experienced tug pilots watching over your shoulder as you type this, are unaware of anyone who has gotten into trouble as a result of a sudden line release then obviously no one has ever gotten into trouble as a result of a sudden line release. So obviously getting into trouble as a result of a sudden line release simply isn't a realistic possibility.

In fact, a sudden line release would only alleviate any problems a tow pilot may be experiencing.

Fuckin' DEFINITELY.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


Zack Marzec certainly had all of his problems permanently alleviated shortly after his sudden line release.

Incidents of tug pilots incorrectly chopping power should not be confused with a sudden line release.

Yeah.

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

Incidents of tug pilots incorrectly chopping power are SERIOUS. Otherwise they wouldn't be INCIDENTS, right? But magic fishing line is precisely calibrated to correctly, instantly, totally cut the power such that you yourself, as well as the four other experienced tug pilots watching over your shoulder as you type this, are unaware of anyone who has gotten into trouble as a result of a sudden line release.

You don't know how much this stuff REALLY stinks until you REALLY read it and REALLY think about WHY it smelled a bit funny on the cursory first glance.

Notice the similarity between:

Steve Kroop, Russell Brown, Bob Lane, Jim Prahl, Campbell Bowen - 2001/07/15

It was mentioned that pilots have been injured as a result of sudden line release. My self, as well as the 4 other experienced tug pilots watching over my shoulder as I type this.

and:

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

This article was peer-reviewed and approved for publication by the USHPA Towing Committee.

You know they're LYING THEIR ASSES OFF - for the sole purpose of covering same. Then all ya need to do is think about why and bet your own ass on the polar opposite to the hilt.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2905
Kansas City Hang Gliding Crash

Warren Narron - 2018/03/04 21:14:53 UTC



The unattributed photo above was found at http://www.kitestrings.org/
This Dragonfly looks a lot like one that was stolen from me years ago. I think it is the same.
Would love to hear from anyone with details concerning this crash and also open up a dialogue on the state of hang gliding in the Kansas City area.

My name is Warren and I have pretty much been out of hang gliding since that Dragonfly was stolen.
I may like to return for some hang gliding but seem to be blocked from the KC hang glide message board.
Anyone that may have an interest in aero towing in KC should make contact here.
I've got an Airborne trike tug that needs a reseal job on a Rotax 582 to get ready.
If there is any interest to help, let me know.

Nope. Darbyville, Ohio.

http://www.kitestrings.org/post3446.html#p3446

...and subsequent posts.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20121107X15820&ntsbno=CEN13LA055&akey=1
CEN13LA055: Full Narrative

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/07/04 12:13:01 UTC

Bullshit.

a) only the pilot can let the angle of attack increase when you lose tension. Thats 100% on the pilot. You are simply wrong and misleading again.