Releases

[Zack C]

Alright...I contacted him.

Zack

[deltaman]

GET OFF Release failure
Today I wrote this email to JoeStreet:

Hi Joe,
A friend of mine had a release failure with yours 2 days ago. Weaklink broke at a safe altitude, no worry.
He is a tandem pilot and had fixedly anchored his release on the keel. When he packed his glider at first he forgot to take back the quicklink of the barrel. One of a cable tie was broken and then the barrel went forward the quicklink and didn't allow to release the all length of the pin when actuate.
That was a version with glue, but that seems not enough as a guarantee. You should attach firmly the quicklink with the first ring of the barrel for the next version and notify your custommers now. I did it for the french guys.

[Tad Eareckson]

It's so much less of a headache when you eliminate the cable and build these things into the glider.

[Steve Davy]

You should attach firmly the quicklink with the first ring of the barrel for the next version and notify your custommers now. I did it for the french guys.

How did you fix this?

[deltaman]

How did you fix this ?

- First not traumatize your release by packing your glider (that was the problem): a cable tie on the quicklink was broken !
- Check and test it at each flight
- We could increase the friction between the quicklink and the sheath of the wire with larger cable ties, or more, or with duct tape AND cable tieS..
- we could attach quicklink and barrel fixedly with a cable for example or something else to find or ..Tad solution (no wire, set as a VG system inside the downtube)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/psucvollibre/6880025212/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/psucvollibre/7026125141/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/psucvollibre/6880025856/

[deltaman]

Hi Antoine,

I have been thinking about this. I don't like the idea of putting another hole in the back plate and a wire because it will interfere with assembly and dis-assembly if it is tight enough to do what it is meant to do. The idea of wrapping the cable/quick link area with duct tape and then tie wrapping over could be a solution for those releases already shipped. I am considering a type of heat shrink tubing which comes coated with adhesive on the inside as an option for the new production ones. Another option is to send out new, longer dyneema links which have something attached to the dyneema at the forward end of the release just beyond where the dyneema comes out of the small tube which prevents the tube from sliding forward. This would have to be attached to the dyneema after the quick link is installed and would have to be removed in order to allow the quick link to be removed. Something stitched perhaps?

Thoughts?

Joe

[Zack C]

Zack,

At least get him to swap out that piece of junk for one of Joe's releases.

(From here.) A lot of people, including Gregg, have looked at my (Joe's) release and liked what they saw, but no one seemed ready to go buy one. I think they'd rather wait for it to be in wider circulation first. Plus, it's hard for people to recognize the potential dangers in the limitations of most releases, probably because they never have problems or if they do they're far from the ground. Gregg has seen the issues that I and others have had with Lookout's releases and considers Wallaby's the best on the market at present.

Other than having to take a hand off the bar to actuate, what's wrong with the Wallaby design? I know I've read plenty of accounts of Wallaby releases failing but I don't know why (well, other than cable rust, possibly).

Zack

[deltaman]

A lot of people (..) have looked at my (Joe's) release and liked what they saw, but no one seemed ready to go buy one. I think they'd rather wait for it to be in wider circulation first.

Hi Antoine,

Yes, I'm very concerned about the operation of my aero tow release at high loading. I just purchased Joe Street's release and haven't flown with it yet. Originally, I want to mount the release activation end on the control bar for a lateral pull rather than mount it on the down tube. Maybe, I shouldn't go for a control bar mount as it puts another 90 degree bend in the cable where it transitions to the down tube. What do you think?

I thought, at first glance, that Joe's release didn't look to be very robust. I didn't like the way the release mechanism kind of flopped around at the end of the cable. But, I'm after flawless performance with low pulling force to activate and not asthectic beauty.

When I saw a picture of the SteevRelease, I thought it looked like a very good design. I thank you for your feedback.

I've attached two pictures of the newer LMFP release which supercedes the spinaker release design. It also looks great but, is difficult to activate under high towing load. One picture shows the release in a closed, towing mode. The other shows what it looks like after the polished, stainless steel sleeve has been pulled back to release the finger in front. I hear they are working on a fix. We'll see.

Meanwhile, I want to fly safely. Thanks again for your thoughts.

PPS: I think I'm going to switch over to a SteveRelease. http://www.skydogsports.com/release/

Please don't !
I bought one and stopped to use it. The effort to actuate is bad at high load you can encounter in AT. (and you have to change the wl at each flight !)

Please consider again the link I gave for the Get Off release of Joe Street, that is for sure the best one: ratio load/actuation effort: 15+ that's really good !
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26440

If you like to understand the mechanical advantage, read that:
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=66547#66547

Best regards
Antoine

Hey D-man,
Thanks for the PM.
I can definitely see the mechanical advantage of the GetOff release.
Fly safe,
TR

[Tad Eareckson]

A lot of people, including Gregg, have looked at my (Joe's) release and liked what they saw, but no one seemed ready to go buy one. I think they'd rather wait for it to be in wider circulation first.

Yeah, let's just throw a bunch of stuff up in the air and see what happens - to OTHER people. Great way to run an airline - especially for a USHGA Towing Committee Chairman.

Plus, it's hard for people to recognize the potential dangers in the limitations of most releases...

Joe Gregor - 2004/09

Once free, the glider was reportedly too low (50-65' AGL, estimated) to recover and impacted the ground in a steep dive. There is no evidence that the pilot made an attempt to release from tow prior to the weak link break, the gate was found closed on the Wallaby-style tow release.

Even after they've read that the piece of shit has killed somebody.

...probably because they never have problems...

Right. Jesus loves them and these things only happen to BAD people.

...or if they do they're far from the ground.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25435
Raunchy Day At The Ridge + Release Failure

Outback - 2012/03/09 02:43:51 UTC

I can't help think if I was close to the ground when lockout started, the three seconds that passed before it released the second time could be three seconds too late!

This guy can't fly worth shit but at least he's got a functional brain. And the rest may be fixable.

Gregg has seen the issues that I and others have had with Lookout's releases...

1. Gregg's the guy who asked me to help him rewrite the USHGA aerotowing SOPs.

2. Gregg's the guy who couldn't even be bothered to tell me that the motherfuckers on his Towing Committee couldn't even be bothered to READ the revisions I had spent a couple of months working on and putting up for commentary.

3. When I wrote the FAA and posted the correspondence publicly there was no shortage of documentation of in flight potentially and actually lethal incidents on Lookout and Wallaby releases - any one of which shoulda gotten that crap IMMEDIATELY grounded out of every dusty little corner of the United States (and, for that matter, the rest of the planet}.

4. Not that any of that crap should've ever been allowed off the ground in the first place.

5. Gregg had access to my documentation - along with the documentation in the reports that used to come out in Hang Gliding magazine before Tim Herr started intercepting them.

...and considers Wallaby's the best on the market at present.

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
12. Hang Gliding Aerotow Ratings
-C. Aero Vehicle Requirements

05. A release must be placed at the hang glider end of the tow line within easy reach of the pilot. This release shall be operational with zero tow line force up to twice the rated breaking strength of the weak link.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4049
Towing errata

Bill Bryden - 2004/04/01 16:20:18 UTC

Some aerotow releases, including a few models from prominent schools, have had problems releasing under high tensions. You must VERIFY through tests that a release will work for the tensions that could possibly be encountered. You better figure at least three hundred pounds to be modestly confident.

Maybe eight to ten years ago I got several comments from people saying a popular aerotow release (with a bicycle type brake lever) would fail to release at higher tensions. I called and talked to the producer sharing the people's experiences and concerns. I inquired to what tension their releases were tested but he refused to say, just aggressively stated they never had any problems with their releases, they were fine, goodbye, click. Another person tested one and found it started getting really hard to actuate in the range of only eighty to a hundred pounds as I vaguely recall. I noticed they did modify their design but I don't know if they ever really did any engineering tests on it. You should test the release yourself or have someone you trust do it. There is only one aerotow release manufacturer whose product I'd have reasonable confidence in without verifying it myself, the Wallaby release is not it.

1. And that makes it OK to put it up.
2. And that makes it OK to put it up with STUDENTS on it.

Other than having to take a hand off the bar to actuate, what's wrong with the Wallaby design?

1. Other than smashing into trees, telephone poles, oncoming traffic, and kids on bicycles, what's wrong with drunk driving? (Sorry.)

A release must be placed at the hang glider end of the tow line within easy reach of the pilot. This release shall be operational with zero tow line force up to twice the rated breaking strength of the weak link.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3648
Oh no! more on weak links

Carlos Weill - 2008/11/30 19:24:09 UTC

On June of 2008 during a fast tow, I noticed I was getting out of alignment, but I was able to come back to it. The second time it happen I saw the tug line 45 deg off to the left and was not able to align the glider again I tried to release but my body was off centered and could not reach the release. I kept trying and was close to 90 deg. All these happen very quickly, as anyone that has experienced a lock out would tell you. I heard a snap, and then just like the sound of a WWII plane just shut down hurdling to the ground, only the ball of fire was missing. The tug weak link broke off at 1000ft, in less than a second the glider was at 500ft. At that point I realized I had the rope, so I drop it in the parking lot.

2. It in no fuckin' way makes the slightest pretense of complying with ANY aspect of EXISTING regulations.




3. It can snag a weak link and kill somebody - AGAIN.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3347
Tad's barrel release tested

Janni Papakrivos - 2008/06/30 15:35:44 UTC

With a bunch of tows to boot I can say that it happened once that I tried to release but missed the brake lever, instead I just pushed it around the down tube and had a much harder time reaching and actuating it. I have no trouble picturing how this could cost me valuable time and altitude in an emergency situation.

http://www.hanggliding.org/weblog_entry.php?e=516

Rick Maddy - 2009/04/04 20:17:05 UTC

I actually went for the release just above tree level and missed. I hit the top of the release and knocked it sideways a little.

4. He's using VELCRO to "SECURE" the brake lever to the downtube.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26440
"GETOFF" Primary Release

Davis Straub - 2012/01/25 17:59:48 UTC

Enough with this aerotow

Antoine Saraf writes:

Joe Street, a Canadian Pilot, makes this release. Contact: <racingtheclouds>.

I purchased and tested first the LMFP and then the SteevReleases and I can say this one is by far the best. I changed releases several times and searched for something more reliable because I encountered difficulties releasing at high loading, as other pilots have reported on the web. You can actuate this release at no load and at high load for much less effort (direct load/actuation effort=15+). Don't know why but, to date, it is the cheapest too!

5. A conscientious tug pilot has worked his ass off (with my help) to develop the best release of its kind, produced and tested something that'll handle 650 pounds of towline tension no problem, and made it available for a song.

6. The motherfuckers that punch out and sell Wallaby, Quest, and Lockout releases should be in jail and not having people like Gregg buying their stuff and giving it endorsement and free advertising.

7. He's supposed to be teaching STUDENTS to become PILOTS. And the first thing he's telling them is that it's perfectly OK to totally disregard sane safety regulations and go up with an illegal piece of mission critical control equipment that's got a bunch of totally unnecessary and conclusively and repeatedly demonstrated options for killing them - 'cause that's what everybody else does.

8. And the instant that message becomes hardwired there's almost zero possibility of those students EVER becoming PILOTS.

I know I've read plenty of accounts of Wallaby releases failing but I don't know why...

1. With Joe's release there only thing that limits the cable travel is the release mechanism itself. The cable doesn't stop moving until the release mechanism bottoms out and when the release mechanism bottoms out the barrel is well clear of the pin.

2. A bicycle brake lever assembly is designed to trade distance for power. A lot of squeeze travel translates to a little bit of cable travel which moves the brake pads a short distance with a lot of force.

3. And the adjustment is pretty critical - as I'm sure you know if you've ever tried to make it.

4. You strap a brake lever to a (straight) downtube you don't have a lot of lever travel to work with. I once had the pleasure of watching Sunny being totally unable to get the factory fresh Wallaby release he was about to sell to Jim Lawrence to function.

...(well, other than cable rust, possibly).

Rust would never be an issue with a downtube mounted Wallaby. The brake lever has the power to deal with it and nobody's ever reported being unable to bottom out a brake lever.

And, hell... Ever hear of somebody being unable to squeeze a brake lever on a bicycle because the cable was rusted? And Wallaby releases don't sit out in the weather on tandems and trainers chained to lamp posts for months at a time.

[Zack C]

It can snag a weak link and kill somebody - AGAIN.

This is an issue with all spinnaker releases, correct? I thought this was only a risk when they're used in a one-point configuration.

2. A bicycle brake lever assembly is designed to trade distance for power. A lot of squeeze travel translates to a little bit of cable travel which moves the brake pads a short distance with a lot of force.

3. And the adjustment is pretty critical - as I'm sure you know if you've ever tried to make it.

No, I haven't, and don't really understand what there is to adjust. I'll take a closer look at one the next chance I get. So do these releases fail after working initially because this adjustment changes? Could it be prevented from changing (perhaps through better manufacturing)? Can the adjustment problem always be detected on the ground, or can it happen post-launch? Do brakes on bikes ever have to be readjusted for the same reason?

The problem I've had with other releases in the past is inadequate L/A. This doesn't appear to be the issue with the Wallaby release (though I have no idea what it's L/A is). Instead, if I'm following you, it can enter a state where NO force will actuate it.

Zack