I do a lot of shallow slope launches and in very light winds. I have aborted several launches safely on the shallow PG ramp of Marshall Peak and other sites. Once or twice I have attempted to abort a launch and found myself airborne and now committed to controlling the glider.
What I see in this video is a partially blown launch run and the pilot realizing this tries to flare his glider to a stop but still has too much momentum which carries him over the edge. The reason I say 'partially blown' is because I, as others have already pointed out in this thread see that he still had the opportunity to lean in hard and fully commit. I feel that he would have safely cleared the brush and flown away.
In case anyone is curious this mountain is in Israel and according to a friend who has flown there, it is an excellent site. There is a better picture of the ramp on Wikipedia and those bushes are just below the lip of the ramp. Not a big deal for a PG which is already high overhead in clean air as you have described. But a very big deal for a much higher wing loading HG that is not in clean air - as you have mentioned.
Everything you describe about aero towing being difficult is a lot harder when foot launching. When you get pulled by the tug you have instant airspeed. All the pilot has to do is fly the glider. How hard is that?
About the only serious fuckups you see off of dolly are ones precipitated by the 130 pound test fishing line...
Steve Clark - 2014/03/18 15:06:37 UTC
Ganada Hills
On Sunday March 16th, an unnamed pilot severely dropped a wing on launch, averting being spun back into the hill by about two inches. When a witness to the launch brought it to the attention of the pilot, the pilot ignored the witness and simply laughed it off. This is a mistake of the ego, and will always catch up to pilots that do not listen or laugh off these observations. Be smart and learn from your mistakes, or they will bite you.
I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.
...than being unable to get any gliders off the ground in light morning conditions without doubling them - just occasional inconveniences such as these. Therefore Davis Links aren't dangerous and he can continue to force everyone to use them.
Steve Clark - 2014/03/20 04:40:22 UTC
You are correct, he flew away clean... This time. When he was asked how his launch felt, his answer was "Fine." But his launch wasn't fine, and there was more than one witness. The point of my post, wasn't that he pounded in. It was that he couldn't have cared less when it was mentioned to him. If we only mention these incidents after the pilot is on life support, if he's lucky, then what's the point?
Think of the gene pool. Bondy bought it on a blown foot launch a little shy of nine months ago and he never struck me as a testosterone poisoned total asshole.
OP's an EXCELLENT candidate for a Darwin Award. Please don't do anything to throw him off his game plan.
Harold Wickham - 2014/03/21 05:14:04 UTC
Las Vegas
I am not an administrator, but the guy who taught me is... I have towed behind a truck probably a hundred or more times. I find it to be one of the best methods of getting up. Our club does a great deal of towing on the dry lakes in southern Nevada. I have also done aero, scooter, and static towing. I prefer truck towing but using a launch cart. It is so easy and in my opinion the safest tow method; as long as you have all the proper equipment and skilled operators.
Sounds a little like sour grapes to me. A usually thoughtful, rapidly progressing pilot has a spectacular flight on an 8000'+ day, is mentored in flight by one of the best at Kagel and lands hoping to bask in a bit of intermediate glory.
Said pilot, his own harshest critic, is approached by an aspiring non-pilot cum driver who wishes to bring him back to earth with an admonishment over a slightly sketchy but otherwise unremarkable launch (according to another observer).
My opinion is the pilot will consider the information at a less euphoric moment; he's probably thankful that people care enough to watch him.
However, he doesn't need to read about his error here, too, just because the lay observer feels slighted in some fashion. I wouldn't want to either.
OK, I can buy that. Reminds me of my first "Assisted Windy Cliff Launch" at High Rock on 1983/02/26.
Blowing about 25, I said "Clear!" and was too considerate of the guy on the nose platform for local tastes. Went off with my Comet 165 a little rolled to the right but no big fuckin' deal. Heard a horrified "GEEEEZ!!!" from back on the ramp as I climbed out and thought "Fuck you."
I''d been an instructor at Kitty Hawk the year before for the whole goddam season and was a damn good dune pilot and quite capable of kicking any Capitol or Maryland Club butt in high wind / close in stuff. I'm thinking "Fuck you." way more looking back now.
On Sunday March 16th, an unnamed pilot severely dropped a wing on launch, averting being spun back into the hill by about two inches. When a witness to the launch brought it to the attention of the pilot, the pilot ignored the witness and simply laughed it off. This is a mistake of the ego, and will always catch up to pilots that do not listen or laugh off these observations. Be smart and learn from your mistakes, or they will bite you.
to:
Steve Clark - 2014/03/18 15:06:37 UTC
On Sunday March 16th, an unnamed pilot severely dropped a wing on launch, averting being spun back into the hill by about two inches. When a witness to the launch brought it to the attention of the pilot, the pilot ignored the witness and simply laughed it off. This is a mistake of the ego, and will always catch up to pilots that do not listen or laugh off these observations. Be smart and learn from your mistakes, or they will bite you.
At 2014/03/25 22:38:06 this:
Steve Clark - 2014/03/20 04:40:22 UTC
You are correct, he flew away clean... This time. When he was asked how his launch felt, his answer was "Fine." But his launch wasn't fine, and there was more than one witness. The point of my post, wasn't that he pounded in. It was that he couldn't have cared less when it was mentioned to him. If we only mention these incidents after the pilot is on life support, if he's lucky, then what's the point?
became:
Steve Clark - 2014/03/20 04:40:22 UTC
N/A
And this post:
Steve Clark - 2014/03/25 22:35:35 UTC
I will watch and keep silent
That's fine Jim, I will refrain from posting to the forum.
was amended.
Good job standing by your principles, Steve. And thanks for giving me the time to go on the record with my revised take on the situation.
Maybe after enough of these mainstream forums have finished rotting themselves out from their middles the traffic at Kite Strings will pick up a bit.
---
2022/04/16 16:00:00 UTC
The first two 2014/03/18 15:06:37 UTC entries are identical. I wonder if I screwed up somewhere on copying/pasting.
Jeez, two tug pilots killed so far this year and they're holding tow-me-up-Scottie Nats.
Call me old-fashioned, I never towed. If I can't footlaunch off a mountain, I'm not interested.
Besides, what could be more boring than drifting over flat land?
But that's just me being a curmudgeon.
Have fun if you think that's what fun is.
I ran hard on a flight. I felt something bad in my right leg. The flight was fine. Foot landing was OK. But I knew something was wrong with my right leg. My knee was a bit stiff. A bit painful to walk. I do not know what I did, but I called it a day. Actually had no choice. Even if I wanted to I could not run. Bummer.
(Per request of Steve Murillo I'm putting my report here.)
It was blowing in mid teens with some strong cross gusts coming through frequently.
Where? Is it too much trouble to tell us the site?
My right wing started to lift as my wire man cleared the nose, and I launched in a turn before I took my first step.
Oh. You had ONE wire man, you put him on the NOSE, you CLEARED him, and you launched in a TURN before you took your first step. But you were OK on pitch.
Marshall Robin - 67441 - H3 - 2012/08/25 - Joe Greblo - FL 360 TUR
Yet another job well done, Joe.
I should have aborted the launch at this time but I thought I could correct, not realizing how much I'd been turned. I was in the air within a few steps and turned back into the hill. I walked away without a scratch, there was no airframe damage, but rather substantial damage to the sail.
My takeaways are that I need to do a better job of keeping my eyes up and on the target, I need to be more diligent about assessing conditions...
Yeah, you should probably avoid any conditions in which there's a possibility of a wing getting lifted on launch. Avoid good thermal days like the plague.
...and I need to back off launch if anything about launch conditions makes me uncertain of having a good launch.
Real bummer that you didn't take shit away about where and how crew can be of actual use.
I thought hand position might have been a factor too but after reviewing the video it did not seem contributory.
- Oh. It didn't SEEM contributory. So if you'd launched like THIS:
with your one wire guy on the upwind wing there's very little likelihood that you'd have had a better day and left with the same pretty sail you started out with.
- How 'bout POSTING the video so THE REST OF US can review it and get a feel for what was and wasn't contributory?
Also as an intermediate pilot I should probably have a full wire crew on strong thermal days like Friday.
Why? What's a full crew? Three? Did you need three people to hold the glider down? Maybe somebody on the tail as well just in case?
So you're saying that if you'd had people on the wings things might have gone better? If you'd just had one guy with a few ounces worth of common sense on the upwind wing keeping you level and ready to run with you a few steps to make sure you stayed level...
...that wouldn't have been enough to make the difference?
Steve Murillo - 2014/05/08 05:35:13 UTC
Thank you for posting this, Marshall. We are very glad you are OK. We can all learn something from this incident.
Yes Steve, WE can ALL learn something from this incident. (Thank you so much for appointing yourself spokesman for EVERYONE.) The sport ALWAYS gets so much safer after somebody skips a hook-in check...
If you'd just had one guy with a few ounces worth of common sense on the upwind wing keeping you level and ready to run with you a few steps to make sure you stayed level that wouldn't have been enough to make the difference?
Possibly, but the goal is to get the wing balanced and that doesn't necessarily mean it is level.
