Releases

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Dan Lukaszewicz (Lucky_Chevy) - 2012/09/04 17:25:51
Alexandria, Virginia

The tow looked like it was too much, too quickly. The power should be rolled on a bit more gradually rather than being jerked into flight.

I LOVE being jerked into flight with too much too quickly. I love...

- standing on dunes or ramps with a smooth twenty coming in and people on my wires until I say "Clear" and ease my nose up a couple of inches.
- lying down in my harness on the back of a truck...

Zack C - 2011/03/04 05:29:28

As for platform launching, I was nervous about it when I started doing it. It looked iffy, like things could get bad fast. I've since logged around a hundred platform launches and have seen hundreds more. Never once was there any issue. I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions). You get away from the ground very quickly and don't launch until you have plenty of airspeed and excellent control.

...waiting until the airspeed indicator hits twenty-five, popping the nose release, and watching the truck turn into a Tonka Toy in the next four seconds.

- rolling on a launch dolly behind a 914 Dragonfly until the runway starts getting blurry so that even if the motherfucker on the other end has a fuzzy three strander in his bridle that he hasn't looked at in the past six months I'll probably be able to deal with the situation.

I love anything on a hang glider launch or landing that takes the need for anything remotely resembling skill and effort out of the equation.

Also, I would like to see you pulled in quite a bit more right after launch.

Everybody would. But, just as on the other end of the flight...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...your control authority with your hands on the downtubes totally sucks. And your ability to pull in with your hands on the downtubes REALLY totally sucks.

And when we have people, including new people, launching from platforms and dollies - fully proned out with both hands on the basetube the way God intended hang gliders to be flown and controlled - you don't see or hear about a lot of problems with gliders with high noses and steep climb angles.

And when people stay proned out with their hands on the basetube coming in for wheel landings you don't see a lot of stalls from ten feet, groundloops, or nose plants.

Please get rid of the steel beener...

It ISN'T a fucking STEEL beener. It's a fucking ALUMINUM carabiner - just like aerotow parks have used without incident for untold zillions of tows.

...and loop your tow bridle through the loop in the main tow rope.

1. There is no tow bridle - just a one point release bridle. He's going directly to a towline extension.

2. Nobody who knows what the fuck he's doing wants a tow bridle getting chewed up on tow by a loop at the end of a towline, burning itself up pulling through the loop upon release actuation, or adding risk of jamming through elimination of the tow ring. It was the elimination of the tow ring by Shane Smith and a few other bozos at Phoenix a couple of Januaries ago that got him killed.

That will keep you from getting a steel...

Aluminum.

...beener in the face if the tow line breaks.

1. The only people who need to worry about stuff recoiling are morons like Dr. Trisa Tilletti who use polypro to keep towlines and bridles from acting somewhat like impact wrenches on the weak link.

2. They've got a weak link downwind of the tow ring.

3. If these guys are using a towline which stands a chance of blowing before the weak link then Don's got a lot of other shit that he needs to worry about which totally dwarfs the risk of getting hit by a tow ring.

I learned to scooter tow with a "V" bridle.

1. Too bad you didn't learn to scooter tow with a Koch two stage.
2. Next time you see Steve Wendt tell him to go fuck himself for me.

One lead would be attached through the pilot to the beener; the other end connects directly to the glider. Your current method is pulling directly on you and causing your angle of attack to increase a bit.

1. It's not causing his angle of attack to increase a bit - but he's not using any of the tow tension to help him trim the glider faster as you are.
2. He's flying UPRIGHT. Launch him prone from a dolly and he'll have no problem stuffing the bar to his knees if he feels like it.

I commend you on being cool headed.

Yeah, that was really great the way he didn't just sit there doing nothing.

Once you are released, for whatever reason...

In this case a totally unacceptable and potentially lethal one.

...your primary job is to fly the glider.

And if he's lucky enough to keep having fuckups like that with adequate recovery altitude I have every confidence that that's exactly what he'll do - with all the skill and coolheadedness he demonstrated on this one.

You did just that and got a good result.

Yep. I'd be happy to sign him off on a Standard Aerotow Weak Link Special Skill at this very moment.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

James Brow - 2012/09/04 18:22:24
Ozark, Missouri

Good job sir!

Save it.

Matthew Hendershot - 2012/09/04 18:43:31
Arroyo Grande, California

I'm no instructor and have maybe sixty scooter tows (foot launch and cart launch) and a handful of aerotows. But...

It looks to me like the weak link did exactly what it was supposed to do.

1. WHAT weak link break?
2. Yeah.

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

I figure that glider had about another second and a half before one of the cross spars was gonna buckle.

A few things jump out at me:

I'd be jumping out at you at about this time if I weren't so old and far away.

Hop into the air at the beginning of launch run.

Angle of attack gets way high early on, and close to the ground.

Which only becomes a problem when?

Check the angle of attack at 00:48.

We can't. We can only check the pitch attitude. But we can get a pretty good idea that the glider was flying at about trim 'cause he's doing zilch with positive (or any other kind of) pitch input.

Even before the break, it looks close to lockout to me.

BULLSHIT. PURE UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT.

The fuckin' glider's doing fine and will keep doing fine as long as...

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...
Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

...nobody does or has done anything stupid like...
- releasing the towline before there is a problem
- making a good decision in the interest of the pilot's safety
- using a weak link to improve the safety of the towing operation
- using a Birren Pitch and Lockout Limiter

Unfortunately the (at least) three people involved in that operation, student pilot, driver, and launch assistant, have already done something stupid - allowed the glider to go up with a Birren Pitch and Lockout Limiter. And the piece of shit limits the pitch (big surprise).

AFAIK, this is what the weak link is for.

How 'bout reading the fuckin' "weak links" thread:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870

so you will know a lot farther than you do now.

A few more seconds without breakage could have resulted in a full lockout, which would have actually been a lot scarier than a stall break with a nice field to land in.

From the time Don here leaves the ground he climbs at fairly normal tow tension for four seconds and does OK right up until his Birren Pitch and Lockout Limiter kicks in - then he stalls somewhat dramatically.

This guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsIkAOeJ0I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsIkAOeJ0I

has a driver who takes off with the afterburners blazing. Once he leaves the cart behind he goes up like a freakin' rocket for nine second but does OK right up until his "weak link" blows to keep the towing forces from building up beyond the limits of safe towing. Then he whipstalls so severely that he starts going inverted and uses up damn near every foot of the altitude he just finished gaining to recover.

Neither of these gliders is doing anything remotely resembling a lockout and they're both under reasonable measures of control until they involuntarily - VERY involuntarily - come off tow.

I would think lower AOA for better control close to the ground is a good idea.

YES. No argument. But sometimes people on one, the other, or both ends of the line fuck up and sometimes shit just happens. But the outcomes are virtually ALWAYS better when you allow a ten percent competent glider pilot to make the call on whether or not to he should come off tow than when the decision is made by a Southwest Texan asshole with a hydraulic pressure dump lever, a shitheaded Dragonfly jockey looking in a mirror with his hand on a Schweizer release lever, a Birren Pitch and Lockout Limiter, or some fucking little loop of fishing line.

Again--disclaimer--am I missing something here?

A book. But try just two excerpts from this one for the time being.

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

And avoid the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden like the fucking plague.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Mike Lake - 2012/09/04 19:55:58

I think this was a premature release...

Autorelease.

...and not a weak-link break, demonstrating clearly that if a weak-link is strong enough to get you in the air it is strong enough to get you in trouble if it breaks...

Or doesn't.

...low down.

Or sometimes, if you're in a steep enough climb...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsIkAOeJ0I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsIkAOeJ0I

...pretty high up.

Premature release or weak-link break, at 00:53 had our pilot friend been lower there was good chance of something hitting the ground.

Possibly...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


...the glider and pilot.

Note he had no problem until he suddenly lost his power.

Well yeah, but...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/09/02 19:41:27

Please note that the weaklink *saved* her ass. She still piled into the earth despite the weaklink helping her... for the same reason it had to help... lack of towing ability.

...if he HADN'T suddenly lost his power it was INEVITABLE that something MUCH worse would've happened 'cause he had very poor towing ability.

I also think you are mixing up a lockout with something else...

No. Anything undesirable that can happen on tow is either a lockout or a progression towards a lockout. And there's only one way...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...to fix it.

...this was a classic straight ahead stall recovery.

I'm sorry. I say it was a lockout - and my opinion is every bit as valid as yours. (Says so in our Declaration of Independence.)

Psilyguy, you are right to consider this episode scary.

Faggot.

Had you performed a stunt to get yourself in the same situation on a landing you would quite rightly consider yourself lucky to have pulled it off.

Apparently the same rules do not apply to launches - these are always (to some)...

The assholes who get away with it a dozen times and are too fuckin' stupid to do the math on what CAN and DOES happen.

...non events. Ignore the macho bull****.

I think it would be a pretty good idea to ignore anything this asshole says on any hang gliding topic - 'cept for the entertainment value.

Lucky_Chevy. I agree, no way would I fly with that lump of metal at longbow tension pointing at my face.

It's a nonissue - like the Koch two stage chest crusher.

[Tad Eareckson]

P.S. Matthew...

When a situation arises low on tow for a glider pilot - be it his first day being anywhere near a glider or a Hang Five who's been doing all kinds of different flavors of towing for decades - the call is VIRTUALLY NEVER to blow tow.

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...
Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

And if the call IS to blow tow it's probably too fuckin' late already anyway.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Tom Galvin - 2012/09/04 20:35:58

Your harness requires slightly different techniques than pods or cocoons.

On launch you are launching the glider into the air with not just your hips and chest, but also the soles of your feet, so you have to be mindful of how you stretch out your legs when launching.

For landing, you bend your knees prior to rocking up, so that you take the pressure off the foot for easier rotation. Once upright you then can straighten your legs gradually to load up the foot of the harness.

As a new pilot I would recommend against doing this transition in ground effect.

Or he could just launch and land on wheels.

As always with internet advice, discuss it with your Instructor, before putting it into practice.

Yeah, discuss it with your Instructor - the one who taught you it's OK to skip hook-in checks, connect to the towline with whatever Industry Standard piece of junk he sells and feels like calling a release, and foot launch behind a lead footed driver who tells you whatever's going on back there he can fix it by giving you the rope and that if you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15

I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself (and maybe the people at Wills Wing).

You wanna discuss something with someone then get on the internet, find someone who knows what the fuck he's talking about, and get your shit together on hang gliding aviation theory. Then you won't hafta be listening to anyone's advice and opinions.

[Tad Eareckson]

Oops.

I didn't look at that video carefully enough. It's a two stage of some kind. Maybe a knockoff from Mike Robertson.

May hafta go back and edit some posts.

Sorry 'bout that.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Scott Corl - 2012/09/04 21:10:14 UTC
Fairborn, Ohio

I can't say for sure what the cause of the premature release was but I have a few strong suspicions. I would like to offer my thoughts on a few little things that perhaps contributed.

First, I'll echo what other people have mentioned about not "jumping" into the glider after a few steps. More specifically I think the pilot should NOT be suddenly pulled through the control frame, instead the pilot should have a decent hold on the down tubes from the start and well into the tow in order to prevent the glider from "getting left behind" in those initial moments. But anyway, in the video this only happens to a small degree, it honestly wasn't a huge deal here, but still something worth mentioning.

In order to improve this: I would suggest starting with how you're holding the glider. It looks like the down tubes are resting against the front of your shoulders, and as a result you're gripping the downtubes very high. The evidence for this is that the top of your helmet is almost touching the keel. I don't care what size or shape the pilot is, there should always be more than a few inches there. Further evidence is how far up the glider drifts as it starts flying (or how slack the hang straps are), this results is your hands being unaturally high, forcing you to change grips very soon. The more comfortable and safe way is to hold the glider so that your shoulders are wedged into the downtubes (the downtubes are making contact on the outside of your shoulders). This will let you grip the downtubes much lower, allowing you to maintain the grip even when the glider starts flying and you are hanging from taught hang straps. This in turn will allow you to resist getting pulled through the control frame suddenly.

Why's he foot launching?

The second thing I suspect being an issue is the length of the release attached to your harness. It looks to me like the control bar might have made contact with the release. This is somewhat likely to happen during the early moments of the tow (when foot launching with the towline over the bar) since during those moments the glider will be climbing the steepest.

Why's he foot launching?

But if the releases are the right length, they will either be in front of or behind the control bar so that only the bridal makes contact with the bar and not the releases themselves.

Do Koch two stages have these issues?

What do you think psilyguy, could the release have made contact with the bar? This last bit is really hard to see for sure in the video.

Scott Corl - 2012/09/04 21:11:33 UTC

I also think you did a fine job recovering and making that very sudden mental transition to landing mode! I've seen people choke and not make that mental shift and end up being forced to wheel land.

FORCED to WHEEL LAND!!! At tow site!!! The HORROR!

http://www.kitestrings.org/post2490.html#p2490

Good job. Be ready for it to happen again soon.

Yeah, prioritize getting that sucker on your feet no matter what.

And if you ever get a stuck pod zipper do everything possible...

http://www.kitestrings.org/post2808.html#p2808

...to get it open. Don't give up until the moment of impact.

After all it just might.

Yeah, given the hang gliding instructional climate in that part of Canada - or, for that matter, any part of Canada north of the Rio Grande - I think it's a real good bet it will.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Matthew Hendershot - 2012/09/04 21:59:23 UTC

So--you're saying there is no AOA issue here?

No. But we're saying that there's REALLY an AOA issue there the instant Don is autoreleased.

I know that when I was towing, (granted, from a stationary rig)...

Doesn't matter.

...I would push out and "kite" quite a bit once I was hundreds of feet off the ground to climb more before releasing.

Do whatever the hell you feel like hundreds of feet off the ground - as long as it doesn't involve a whipstall.

It looks to me like the flight is mushy and already yawing to the right just before the break.

It's not. It's crisp and responsive. Just 'cause the nose is way the hell up doesn't mean that it's slow.

I just can't believe that flying that low to the ground with the wings almost perpendicular to the tow line is a good idea.

It's not. But he's not in that bad a shape before his crap equipment malfunctions.

I always thought a lockout was when the AOA was so high relative to the towline...

Angle of attack isn't relative to the towline - or the horizon. It's relative to the airflow around the wing.

...that the pilot essentially loses all yaw/roll control.

1. We've got zilch in the way of yaw control.
2. He hasn't lost roll control - he inputs, it responds.

Please explain what I'm missing.

Pretty much everything about lockouts and weak links. Your tow instruction totally sucked.

With regards to your comment about "macho BS"---to the contrary.

That wasn't directed towards you. That was directed to an asshole who really deserved it - and much more.

I feel that I am expressing alarm at the attitude of the glider that close to the ground.

That shoulda paled in comparison to the Bille Floyd hook-in check and Eric Aasletten autorelease.

This is something that can be addressed.

Most easily by dolly launching him.

To me--the fact that the release happened at the altitude that it did made it not that scary (especially compared to a complete lockout).

To me the fact that the release happened at the altitude that it did was completely irrelevant 'cause I see it as something that coulda just as easily happened in a situation in which he coulda wound up just as dead as he could have as a consequence of a complete lockout.

The fact that B Asher just launched unhooked at a slope where the worst he could wind up...


2-112
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7600/28811055456_925c8abb66_o.png

4-220
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8673/28811054116_21b87e3a38_o.png

6-311
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8691/28811052626_37e54c1f64_o.png

password - red

...was grass stained shouldn't be of diminished scariness 'cause there's no reason he wouldn't have done exactly the same think at Lookout, Henson, or Whitwell.

Lower would have been very bad indeed.

Could.

I've had towlines break at fifteen, thirty, a hundred feet...

You've had three TOWLINES break? What are you using for weak links and what are you using for towlines?

All uneventful.

Like when you're playing Russian roulette and just hear a click.

In my mind the most cavalier attitude is to say that one should not _expect_ a tow line to break at any time for unexpected reasons.

There are only two reasons why towlines and weak links break - incompetence and negligence. And those should NEVER be unexpected.

Or that it's not necessary to fly in a way that might take this into account.

Yeah, you should ALWAYS fly as if your towline's gonna blow and your release is gonna jam. But those things are one hundred percent preventable and should NEVER happen.

(In my mind--this is the "macho" attitude.)

The bullshit macho attitude - as best represented by the piece of shit...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12682
Landing on your feet (for AEROTOW)- So Dangerous

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/06/29 14:26:26 UTC

OMG!!! You dont even have wheels!!?!?!?!?
YOURE GONNA DIE FOR SUUUUREE!!!!

I have a brilliant idea. People who cant land for sh*t.... LEARN TO LAND That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh???

...who controls the cult on which you're conducting this discussion - is that it's OK to chisel away at safety margins and throw a lot of chintzy garbage into the equation 'cause the compromises will never be anything more than minor annoyances to really great pilots like me.

Again--I am only using my limited experience and have no claim to being an expert on the subject of towing.

One need have no experience whatsoever to be more of an expert on towing than 99.9 percent of the assholes doing it - including/especially the ones who've been running aerotow operations for decades and writing authoritative books, magazine articles, and policy.

And WHENEVER you hear some asshole in this sport talking about his EXPERIENCE...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC

Sure "there's always room for improvement", but you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.

...run - do not walk - the other way IMMEDIATELY.

I am here trying to learn just as much as anyone.

If you're there trying to learn just as much as anyone there you're gonna learn just as much as anyone there. You'll do a few hundred times better if you come here and try to learn just as much as anyone here.

So please explain to me why this nose-high attitude is considered safe at low altitude.

It's not. But the overwhelming primary reason that it's not is 'cause the shits like Dr. Trisa Tilletti, Dennis, Davis, Rooney, Matt, Peter who run these shows wanna punish you for letting your nose get high by putting you up on weak links which improve the safety of the towing operation with people at the upwind ends of the towlines itching to make good decisions in the interest of your safety.

And you oughta see what they do to people who try to stop them and to provide equipment which allows you to get off tow at an instant of your choosing without further compromising an already dangerous situation.

I was trained not to fly this way.

EVERYBODY'S trained not to fly that way.

NOBODY'S trained to understand what a lockout is, what a weak link is, the difference between a weak link and a release, the value of a release that doesn't stink on ice, the value of having two hands on the basetube during an emergency, the danger of a driver making a good decision in the interest of your safety, or how to prevent unhooked launches.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Jim Gaar - 2012/09/04 22:08:17 UTC

For winch or payout or static towing:

Trim. ANY wing should climb at it's natural trim position given hook-in weight and conditions.

- Name something - from a paper airplane in a grade school classroom to a hang glider in free flight or under tow to an SR-71 - that doesn't fly at its "natural" trim in the absence of pilot input.

- What the fuck are hook-in weight and conditions supposed to have to do with anything?

One pulls in for speed if needed, otherwise one let's the control bar out until it reaches trim position.

Hard to argue with incisive logic like that.

Matthew Hendershot - 2012/09/04 22:57:46 UTC

Understood.

I generally fly faster than trim when I'm near terrain. From what I'm hearing on this thread, I am an anomaly and was trained differently than most.

That's not what you're hearing - that's what you think you're hearing.

Or there's something more forgiving about towing that I don't understand.

Hang gliders on tow are inherently roll unstable. Towing them can be stunningly unforgiving - even if you do stay dead centered in the Cone of Safety all the time.

Not trying to beat a dead horse. Just a bit bored and genuinely curious...

You're not so genuinely curious that you engaged in the "weak links" thread:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870

It's currently dormant on Page 2 of "Hang Gliding general" with 62 posts, none of them yours, and 2830 hits - pretty obviously none of them yours.

Scott Corl - 2012/09/04 23:24:19 UTC

I don't agree with your assessment of the flight looking mushy. And it isn't uncommon to achieve very high nose angles and climb rates early in the tow. The winch is pulling quite hard (far more tension that you would see aerotowing for instance).

Yeah Scott...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

You've not heard about strong-link incidents.
Uh, yeah... cuz we don't let you use them.

FAR more tension that you would see aerotowing for instance. We're always pretty thrilled when we can maintain enough of it to get us ten feet off the fuckin' cart.

If you ever get a chance go watch some experienced operators scooter tow, check it out.

You are in general correct about flying faster near terrain. No one is saying otherwise. But I would like to try to reassure you that "attitude" was not an issue in the video posted above.

wallet55 - 2012/09/04 23:43:15 UTC

Nice. Lots of people have ended up a lot worse...

For the purpose of the exercise he DID end up a lot worse. He got killed two different ways within the space of seven seconds.

That is what it is supposed to look like but sometimes does not!

That's what it looks like pretty much all the time - unfortunately.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27044
Here's a scary one for ya!

Mike Lake - 2012/09/04 23:45:57 UTC

Henderthing,

First things first. The macho bull**** comment was not aimed at you.

So--you're saying there is no AOA issue here?

No, I'm saying that it was only an issue once power was lost, otherwise I dare say he would have had an uneventful flight and enjoyed it.

However, I agree with you I would have been pulling in until well away from the ground.

I would also be praying, when low, for external forces (however good I might or might not be) not to put me at a similar scary attitude just as my weak-link snaps or my release unexpectedly releases (not that I worry too much about the latter).

If you really want a release that you won't hafta worry about dumping you unexpectedly...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..

Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.

No stress because I was high.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16384
Tow Release Malfunction

Jim Rooney - 2010/03/26 20:54:43 UTC

Bent pin releases are indeed very very reliable.

Really tough to beat a bent pin release for reliability.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Huge track record.

I always thought a lockout was when the AOA was so high relative to the towline that the pilot essentially loses all yaw/roll control. Please explain what I'm missing.

A lockout is a function of misaligned tow forces. Straight line tow forces at whatever tension will not produce a lockout. *

If a glider banks away from a tow line it tries to recover, as any good glider should do, by turning in the direction away from the tow line still further. After a point there is nothing the pilot can do stop this self stoking action, a lockout.

No, but as long as he isn't using a release which stinks on ice he can keep retarding the speed of the progression.

Of course if you stall on tow and drop a wing this could develop into a lockout.

Not if you have a tug driver who's really on the ball and...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Give 'em the rope? When?

William Olive - 2005/02/11 08:59:57 UTC

I give 'em the rope if they drop a tip (seriously drop a tip), or take off stalled. You will NEVER be thanked for it, for often they will bend some tube.

...fixes whatever's going on back there by...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...giving you the rope.

* Some consider an 'over the top' (of a winch) straight line dive into the ground a lockout because this is the final stage of a 'normal' lockout without having to go through all those sideways preliminaries.

I wouldn't call a dive into the ground with a towline pulling backwards on the glider (and maybe its basetube) a lockout.

I'm gonna define a lockout as any misalignment which can't be corrected before it progresses to the point at which the tow is unsustainable. For example...

If the glider were to be blasted up by a thermal and couldn't be brought back down with the bar to the knees before the tug was standing on its nose...

But I don't know if - even with the short (fixed length) towlines we use - something like that would be realistically possible. The glider can't be alone in a thermal that would do that for very long and the tug's gonna abort before he starts getting in significant trouble.