The solid comments of Head Trauma, based on hundreds of hours/tows of experience and backed up by his keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular, on Tost weak links versus the single loop of 130 pound Greenspot which breaks when and only when the towline tension hits exactly 520 pounds, regardless of where it's installed, and thus puts all gliders at exactly 1.0 Gs - just like the shitheads at Ridgely and Manquin who trained him and signed him off told him...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/25 20:49:28 UTC
I work with a lot of people that would tend to disagree with that.
Yeah Jim, it's incredibly easy to get a bunch of assholes to agree on whatever the least common denominator pulls out of the sewer.
Just because the solo pilot crowd isn't aware, please do not assume this.
Yeah, all tandem pilots are, obviously, twice as smart as all solo pilots - simple arithmetic - and, of course, only our lords and masters are capable of understanding the complex issues they deal with every day.
One criteria is of course that they are recognizable... to me... not you.
Not ENTIRELY sure about that. Whenever I see someone blow a weak link ten feet off the cart I've always had a pretty good idea what he was using. But I'll defer to your keen intellect/knowledge of the issues.
But that's not it. They are kept because they have a huge track record. That's really hard to argue with.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/message/11155
Question
Shane Nestle - 2010/09/17 22:17:50 UTC
So far I've only had negative experiences with weak links. One broke while aerotowing just as I was coming off the cart. Flared the glider immediately to land and put my feet down in preparation only to find the cart still directly below me. My leg went through the two front parallel bars forcing me to let the glider drop onto the control frame in order to prevent my leg from being snapped.
Yeah Jim, just like cigarettes - a HUGE track record. I've seen and experienced the broken downtubes myself. No possibility of argument whatsoever.
I've yet to hear anyone successfully do so.
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Here is the requirement from the 2007 Worlds local rules (which I wrote) for weaklinks:
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.
Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC
I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC
I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.
Nah, you stupid pigfuckers have any faint hope of success pretty much smothered.
Plastic links...
By which Head Trauma means the stuff I'd referenced at:
http://www.tost.de/evers/edefault.htm
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page30.htm
"Manufactured by Bob" doesn't meet my criteria.
Oh!!! Forgive us All Wise And Knowing Very Very Reliable Bent Pin Jim. We had NO IDEA. If only we had known!
They are not manufactured to tolerances. They're not "manufactured" at all... They are a material that some guy found consistent enough to feel comfortable about. He cuts holes and tests, but it's still Bob in his backyard. He doesn't make the plastic, so he has no control over the quality of it.
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau
1945
Foundation of Tost company as a locksmith's shop.
1951
Gliding is again permitted in Germany. Tost begins developing safety equipment for gliding.
1952
Manufacture of the first Tost nose release.
1953
Type approval of the Tost weak link.
The first Tost safety releases are produced in series. Today over 60.000 Tost releases are used day in, day out, all over the world.
1955
Start of manufacture of aircraft wheels: landing wheels, shoe brake wheels and hydraulic disk brake wheels for use in gliders, motor gliders, and aircraft.
1978
Start of development and manufacture of rescue cages and rope-down securing units to ensure the safety of rescue teams.
1981
Focus on the core business of safety equipment, tow releases and wheels.
1982
Start of production of a proprietary aircraft tire: TOST AERO 4.00-4, 260x85, 200x50.
1987
Development of retrofit kits for disk brake wheels.
1992
Tost production of Tow Cable Retractor Winch with Guillotine.
1999
LBA approval as production organisation.
2000
For helicopter rescue teams: 1-man rope down securing unit for fast mounting in airline rails.
2001
Distributor for Condor Aircraft tires.
2002
Distributor for Michelin Aircraft tires.
2003
LBA approval of the small, light tow release E22.
2004
Certification as EASA production organisation DE.21G.0065.
2005
Celebration of the 60th anniversary.
2006
Redesign of the Tost premises.
2007
Tost weak links in optimised format.
2008
Stahlbus bleeder valve - sole distributor for General Aviation.
Brass tail wheel as trimming weight.
Split tail wheel Max II and Moritz II for easy tire mounting.
2009
Certification as EASA design organisation and EASA maintenance organisation.
2010
We are celebrating 65 years of Tost company.
Hydraulic actuation of drum brake wheels.
Yeah, how could some loser like Bob even hope to hold a candle to some asshole who drives a Dragonfly up and down all summer long year after year in two hemispheres?
That said, I'd feel a whole lot better about these than Tad's stuff.
Good. I'd probably slash my wrist if you didn't. As it is I take it as a supreme compliment.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?
Adi Branch - 2009/07/02 12:50:02 UTC
I have to chirp in on this.. I know I'm a noob and all that, but Tad seems to be talking sense to me. From what I can gather the US has some quite different (dated?) ways of doing things which it appears are not used here in the UK, and some of the reasons I've heard cited for not using these methods relate directly to accidents in the US.
For instance, the idea of tying your own weak link is absolute nuts to me, as is using a bit of string for the job! Over here it's aluminium only (sailplane style link) and if I turned up with a bit of tied string, I'd be shown the exit road.
I dunno... Maybe I'm missing something, but if someone (who appears to be knowledgeable in his field) is suggesting some aspects of towing methods are unsafe (to which as an outsider I agree with him), then why are there criticisms and not constructive arguments or additional input to rectify these issues?
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.
Lauren Tjaden - 2003/12/14
This fall at Ridgely, I had a weak link break at maybe fifty feet. I thought I was going to have to land in the soybeans - the very tall soybeans - when I looked at my angle. But, my glider stalled quite dramatically almost instantly (hard not to stall when you have a break), and dove towards the ground (a bit disconcerting from so low).
http://www.jm2c.com/hangola/2005/0125.htm
Lauren Tjaden - 2005/01/21
I came off the cart smoothly, but at 100 feet, started getting slammed. I tow lots, and I will tell you I have never felt anything like this before. Ginny leapt sideways and would go slack and then violently shudder. Jim hung onto the plane and I hung onto her basetube, but at 400 feet my pussy-##s weak link broke. Great. Now I had to land in the monster that had just attacked the runway. My glider set me down neatly, but adrenaline was practically spilling out my eyeballs by then.
Yeah Bobby, thanks zillions. Aerotowing would be so dull without this contribution and all of the adoring clones around to make it stick. And while I think of it...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..
Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC
But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
Can't thank you enough either for making the bent pin the global standard for barrel releases for all eternity. If you don't get a call from Stockholm this year we can be absolutely certain that the whole system's rigged.
