2015/03/27 Jean Lake crash

[Tad Eareckson]

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/04 06:10:59 UTC

Hello Tad,

You listed a few dozen quotes of me saying that I have very little experience with towing. You concluded with this:

I hope that when somebody finally shoots you it'll be in the chest or back so we can find out what kind of wiring you have in your head that locks you into strategies like these.

No shooting required. It's simply called ... honesty.

And yes, I am locked into it.

Mystery solved?

You listed a few dozen quotes of me saying that I have very little experience with towing.

Reading comprehension to this point - excellent.

You concluded with this:

Starting to slide, Bob.

I hope that when somebody finally shoots you it'll be in the chest or back so we can find out what kind of wiring you have in your head that locks you into strategies like these.

That's not a conclusion. That's an expression of hope.

No shooting required.

I know. Like hang gliding isn't REQUIRED. It's just a really pleasurable experience for lotsa people.

It's simply called ... honesty.

I KNOW it's HONESTY. I have every confidence that the Republican global warming "skeptics" are being TOTAL *HONEST* when they tell us they're not scientists / don't know what the fuck they're talking about. (Thanks Stephen, I miss you terribly.) The problem is I totally DESPISE *EVERYONE* who isn't a scientist. I personally would like to see everyone who isn't a scientist reprocessed as something useful - like protein to help with the Sumatran Tiger recovery effort.

And I feel exactly the same way about assholes in hang gliding who proudly proclaim their ignorance of towing at every possible opportunity. It displays naked contempt for the:
- history of the sport
- people who struggled and continue to struggle to get the sport properly airborne
- lives of the victims of the motherfuckers who couldn't be bothered to get things right
- flatlanders who'd prefer to be able to fly without having to drive twenty hours to the nearest doable mountain
- people love towing as a means to get into soarable air
- science of aeronautics

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1577
hangglider

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/07/23 17:14:21 UTC

I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering, and I worked for two years at a commercial grade wind tunnel.

You have a Bachelor of Science degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering and worked for two years at a commercial grade wind tunnel but can't be bothered to spend a half hour learning the-ten-year-old-kite-flying-kid level common sense fundamentals of towing? The kinda stuff that would've kept Terry from getting killed at your mentally defective Texas pigfucker buddy's shoddy operation? Go fuck yourself.

And do me a favor and tell Rick to go fuck himself too. I'm not sure he follows Kite Strings closely enough to be aware of my feelings towards him.

And yes, I am locked into it.

Hope that helps compensate for being locked out of hang and para gliding.

Mystery solved?

What mystery? I KNOW you have mutant circuitry and I can accurately predict its effect in terms of your actions and behavior. I'm just mildly curious about the nuts and bolts of how it's strung together and routed.

Hey people of varying ages... Whenever you hear someone expounding on his HONESTY watch the fuck out. IMMEDIATELY start focusing on what he's NOT saying and be VERY careful when you start thinking you're hearing what you wanna hear. First person plural...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/faq.php
Frequently Asked Questions

We believe that good decisions sometimes require a significant effort to dig into the facts. Sometimes arguments are heated, and that's not something to be feared or rejected. That's the process - painful or not - that leads to better decisions.

Who are the people who authorized him to speak on their behalf?

So Bob...

- Who are the people who authorized you to speak on their behalf?

- How are you gonna make good decisions when ALL of your significant effort is devoted to repeatedly telling everyone - honestly - that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and NONE of your significant effort is devoted to digging into the facts?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1802
Jean Lake

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/03 04:41:43 UTC

Lots of good and thoughtful comments.

- Care to identify any for us? Or is it better just to let everyone assume you're talking 'bout HIS good and thoughtful comments?
- Too bad we weren't able to persuade the guy with the Bachelor of Science degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering to participate.

Thanks to everyone for contributing.

Not EVERYONE is ALLOWED to contribute over there...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929
Training Manual Comments / Contribution

Warren Narron - 2012/01/06 18:55:32 UTC

Going against the grain here, but someone has to point out that the probable best candidate to write a training manual has been banned from this site.

...motherfucker.

While this is a painful topic...

ESPECIALLY for someone as deeply concerned about the safety of people of varying ages as you are.

...it's important that pilots talk about it to build a better understanding of what happened and how to keep it from happening again.

Fuck you, Bob. This WAS "it" happening AGAIN.

That's the time-honored history of aviation.

Real bummer that aviation has to take a back seat to agreeability, willingness to compromise, and, last but not least, BOB on The Bob Show.

Rick Masters - 2015/04/03 07:46:11 UTC

I came away...

Real bitch that you didn't STAY away.

...from there thinking...

Whatever you say, Rick.

...the line went slack, then went taut, the glider whip-stalled, snapping the weak link, rotated and dove straight into the ground. No?

No. Totally fucking clueless, in fact.

Please don't make me read it all again.

What "it" are you talking about? Doesn't appear that you read anything a first time.

Warren Narron - 2015/04/03 18:44:34 UTC

A reliable, instantaneous release at the right time, without removing hands from the control bar, IMO, would have been the only hope to recover from that situation.
After decades of towing, this type of release isn't readily available and not commonly used.

Show me where it's AT ALL available and/or used ANYWHERE for any flavor of surface towing.

What was Harrison using?

A sound reliable one - within easy reach, of course.

We don't know but I will bet that his release could have only been activated by removing one hand from the control bar, as that is the industry standard.

With an extremely long track record.

The development and discussion of reliable, hands on the bar releases has been systematically suppressed for many years by those now concerned about a crash like this on their ability to fly/profit from this sport. It's all documented in Tad Earicksons'...

Eareckson's.

...archive at http://www.kitestrings.org/

Unsafe for people of varying ages.

Kelly Harrisons' towing experience likely didn't give him the insight he needed to disconnect when it was needed anyway.

He needed more than insight.

More experienced pilots likely would have the same outcome.

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

But even for those that might attempt an early release, taking a hand off the control bar in a developing lock out negates the benefit of a release anyway. And that is if the release actually worked as it's supposed to work.

This one worked EXACTLY as it was supposed to work. No debate on that point. It was his Tad-O-Link that didn't work when it was supposed to.

Of course this is all speculation, but what's next? Cover it up and keep on doing things the same way?

If it ain't broke...

Based on past practice, that would be my guess.

Total dead certainty.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1802
Jean Lake

Rick Masters - 2015/04/03 19:37:42 UTC

If you go back to the beginning, Robert Wills and later, Doug Hildreth, the first USHGA Accident Chairmen, clearly saw the role of the USHGA as MAKING HANG GLIDING SAFER FOR THE PILOTS. The United States HG Manufacturers Association was formed at the insistence of the USHGA and worked with the USHGA to DESIGN AND BUILD SAFER HANG GLIDERS FOR THE PILOTS. Hang gliding pilots needed the USHGA. It was important. It was successful.

Not really. Hang gliders are certified and certifiable ONLY with the pilot prone with both hands on the basetube. Wills Wing was the main force behind establishment of the HGMA and in their owners' manuals they have ALWAYS had instructions for the pilot at landing - the most critical and dangerous phase of the flight - to rotate upright, place their hands on the downtubes where...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...they can't control the glider, decertify the crap out of it. Wheels or skids... Eh.

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

Over four decades of totally predictable and totally needless death and destruction.

And from about Day Two there was pressure from Baby USHGA / commercial hang gliding to ixnay on the...

Robert V. Wills - 1976/10
Accident Review Board

1976 Fatalities: A First Look

Because there was some feeling that people involved in hang gliding, and people observing the sport from outside, should become preoccupied with accidents and fatalities, the editor of Ground Skimmer asked me to refrain from submitting accident summaries on an every-issue basis. However, it has now been several months since we gave you any accident data, so I submit the following table of reported fatal accidents since the first of 1976, both to give you an idea of how to solicit further information on any accidents which are not included in the table or which obviously need further reporting.

...on the atalitiesfay.

Bob's doing the EXACTL SAME THING there at Baby Bob Show. He doesn't give a flying fuck about fatalities or keeping the Baby Bob Show a safe place for people of varying ages to visit.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840
[TIL] About Tad Eareckson

Bob Kuczewski - 2013/03/10 18:20:34 UTC

I first learned about Tad Eareckson when I was Regional Director and the USHPA Board circulated a letter he had written (with intention to send?) to the FAA about some dangerous practices in hang gliding.

The Board's knee-jerk response was to try to take some kind of legal action to silence Tad. I indicated that I thought we shouldn't be sending our lawyers in as our first response, and that maybe we should have someone talk with him first. So Dennis Pagen volunteered, and I believe the matter was settled without any serious damage to the sport.

He just wants to present the same G rated, color glossy, family friendly, fake image of hang gliding that u$hPa does - 'cept with him at the wheel instead of Rich Hass, Mark G. Forbes, Tim Herr. That's why he sabotaged everything I tried to do on his dump then banned me and then strolled over to Kite Strings for a few more months and deluged it with Homosexual Relationship With A 12 Year Old Boy spam.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe. Even so, we get sued periodically by people who say we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done something that would have averted their accident. It's not just concern for meet directors and policy makers...it's about our continued existence as an association. It's about minimizing the chance of our getting sued out of existence. We're one lawsuit away from that, all the time, and we think hard about it.

http://www.kitestrings.org/topic7-740.html

Why are hang glider pilots in this corporation when they need an association like the original USHGA? What do they think they gain? They need to walk away.
The u$hPa is no longer important if hang glider pilots walk away. The u$hPa is an obvious failure. Failures eventually become irrelevant. The sport of hang gliding needs a real national association NOW. Do something. But leave any aspect that is not focused on pure sport entirely out of it. No more locking out learning except in guild "$chools;" no tandem joyriding companies posing as "instructors;" no more locking up sites for concessionaires; no more kangaroo court political bannings or harassment of pilots with alternative viewpoints. Let's get back to the ideas that brought us together in the first place. Start over.

Not the way Bob's starting it. Frying pan... Fire.

USHGA's first Accident Review Chairman was a lawyer who'd had two sons killed in separate hang gliding incidents and published every shred of incident information he could get his hands on.

USHGA's current Accident Review Chairman is Tim Herr - is a money grubbing corporate lawyer for a money grubbing corporation who shreds every scrap of incident information he can get his hands on when possible and makes it unrecognizably distorted when not.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1802
Jean Lake

Brian Scharp - 2015/04/03 20:43:28 UTC

Warren Narron - 2015/04/03 18:44:34 UTC

A reliable, instantaneous release at the right time, without removing hands from the control bar, IMO, would have been the only hope to recover from that situation.
After decades of towing, this type of release isn't readily available and not commonly used.

Sometimes they get stuck and require both hands. Just don't lock out if you're too low to let go with both hands.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41712
Oh jeez, in Las Vegas

Scot Trueblood - 2015/03/30 13:30:24 UTC
Estero, Florida

Payout Towing Accident

The question which seems most relevant to me is : How much tow line did they have in the air? A stuck release is easy to deal with at high altitude and high angle above the tow vehicle. On 3 different occasions, I have actually let go of the bar completely to get both hands on the release and manually pull it free. However, in the early stages of the tow, a lockout (which I have never even come close to in a tandem glider) combined with a stuck release could be catastrophic. But why wold the weak link not fail? Maybe too strong of a weak link.

At the end of a tow, we always turn our boat back toward the origin to come back under the glider and assure a better angle for recovery of the towline. The only time a pilot on our system failed to release at the proper time resulted in me simply free-wheeling the drum to allow line to be pulled back out. Fortunately, the pilot, who I won't name but begins with a "Z", realized that it was time to pull the release and it was uneventful.

A lot of unanswered questions here, and sadly we are left with the tragedy of 2 lives lost.
-
Happy Landings...!

Paradise Hang Gliding, Inc.
Bonita Springs

http://www.kitestrings.org/post7242.html#p7242
27-44400
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8625/16019976468_1f060f370c_o.png

http://www.kitestrings.org/post6875.html#p6875
16-092703
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3934/15620368575_81284413b3_o.png

Warren Narron - 2015/04/03 23:39:00 UTC

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28034
Your ushpa dues in action.

Orion Price - 2015/04/03 20:34:41 UTC

Mark, can you form a new position at Ushpa, official internet troll feeder? You would be a shoe in for the spot. A born natural.

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/03 21:36:27 UTC

I love it! I've just appointed myself to the job.

This would be different (how?) from the last ten years or so? And speaking of trolls, I surfed through the Hawks website yesterday....I had no idea just how evil I really am. From the comments over there, I'm the living, breathing embodiment of tyranny, despotism and cruelty. Makes me positively giddy with the sense of power.

Gotta go....I need to work on my evil laugh and get quotes on building a lair in a volcano. I wonder if I could get a long term lease on Newberry Crater?

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/04 06:08:11 UTC

Lots of good comments and analysis from everyone.

Damn straight, Bob. EVERYONE.

Thanks to each of you for contributing to this important topic.

And let's look at YOUR contributions to this important topic...

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/01 16:54:22 UTC

This short quote from hanggliding.org says a lot.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Dave Gills - 2015/04/01 13:09:33 UTC

Re: Please, no speculation

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/30 23:29:59 UTC

We have a very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Shipley) headed to Las Vegas to do an accident investigation, and when we learn what really happened we'll convey that information to our members. He'll be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth.

Yeah right....More like fighting over who gets to eat the video card.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/01 17:26:16 UTC

Hi Scott,

If you hover over your post link, you'll find that it's post number 11111 on the US Hawks.

I happened to notice it because I needed the link to post on the Oz Forum:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41619
Goodbye Bob K?

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/01 17:23:31 UTC

Wingspan33 just posted an insightful observation on the US Hawks forum. He points out that USHPA's role as an insurance provider for our sport creates a conflict of interest with their supposed role to provide safety and information for our sport. This manifests itself in the recent Jean Lake crash where USHPA rushes in to do "damage control" (suppression of information) to protect against claims and it also manifests itself in this topic where USHPA is using my own testimony in an ongoing injury court case as justification to expel me (another attempt at suppression of information).

In both cases, USHPA's alignment with the insurance carrier creates a clear conflict of interest with their role as our national hang gliding and paragliding organization.

Very good observation Wingspan!!

Let me say it again here ... Very good observation Scott!!

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/01 18:12:09 UTC

I have very little experience with towing, but I think we still don't know enough to understand what happened here.

What concerns me (as others have pointed out) is that given USHPA's willingness to suppress information, we might never really know what happened here. The sport of hang gliding needs an independent review mechanism, and Scott's point makes it clear that USHPA doesn't have the impartiality to provide it.

Merlin - 2015/04/01 18:08:06 UTC

Yes, somewhere along the way promoting safety was changed into maintaining plausible deniability. So from this perspective, Bob's adventure at Torrey is an existential threat to the organization.

Well said.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/01 18:34:43 UTC

Moderator's note: With Free's permission, I've moved this topic from the Blog forum to the Hang Gliding General forum. I've left a link in the Blog forum for anyone who looks for it there.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/03 04:41:43 UTC

Lots of good and thoughtful comments.

Thanks to everyone for contributing. While this is a painful topic, it's important that pilots talk about it to build a better understanding of what happened and how to keep it from happening again. That's the time-honored history of aviation.

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/04 06:08:11 UTC

Lots of good comments and analysis from everyone. Thanks to each of you for contributing to this important topic.

Sure is a good thing we have a leader with a Bachelor of Science degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering, two years experience at a commercial grade wind tunnel, and fluency with Navier-Stokes equations to work towards making sure something like this never happens again by telling everyone how great their comments are.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://obits.ocregister.com/obituaries/orangecounty/obituary.aspx?n=john-kelly-harrison&pid=174563534
JOHN HARRISON Obituary - Santa Ana, CA | Orange County Register

JOHN KELLY HARRISON

Harrison, John Kelly, age 56, passed away Friday March 28, 2015 in a tragic hang-gliding accident in Jean, Nevada. He was born February 22, 1959 to Lorrin "Whitey" and Cecelia (Yorba) Harrison. Kelly lived a life full of adventure. Growing up in Capo Beach, he excelled at surfing, paddling outriggers, diving, and all watersports. Later in life he got involved in hang-gliding, karate, white-water rafting, skiing, sailing, fishing, etc. He was a white-water guide on the Colorado River, ski patrol, EMT, hang-gliding instructor, kayak adventure guide, airplane pilot, an avid poker player and an exceptional human being. Kelly was also a successful business man, owner of Plenty Pupule Kayaks in Kona and Kauai, where he also hosted the Pelagic Pursuit kayak fishing tournaments. Carefree and spontaneous is how he lived his life, which made him fun to be around and his infectious smile brought happiness and fun to all that knew him. Kelly's greatest joy was getting people out of their comfort zones and challenging their spirit of adventure. Kelly is survived by his daughter, Danielle Obinger; sisters, Ginger Grey, Marian Tompkins, Jennifer Van Swae; brother, Lorrin Harrison Jr.; and 2 granddaughters. John Kelly Harrison's Memorial Service will be held at Doheny State Beach on Sunday April 12th at 2:00pm. All friends are welcome, please join our celebration of his life.

Carefree and spontaneous, getting people out of their comfort zones and challenging their spirit of adventure... That information should be of some significance/use to the u$hPa investigation effort.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/30 23:29:59 UTC

Please, no speculation

We have a very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Shipley) headed to Las Vegas to do an accident investigation, and when we learn what really happened we'll convey that information to our members. He'll be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth.

Oh good. So Mark... Pretty high profile incident, huh? Wanna send the Best of the Best in there to do and get things right, right?

- Show me:

-- an incident report involving so much as a bent downtube with Mitch's name on it.

-- some towing crash discussions - about incidents that he didn't...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27396
Scooter tow faillure... or Never Land On Your Face

...CAUSE - in which he was a participant. I can find ONE post:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

2011/01/15, Shane Smith, Phoenix. Bunch a total fucking morons remove the tow ring and run the bridle through the weak link. Very experienced tow administrator Mitch Shipley tells us we should use tow rings.

- Any chance we could get a very experienced tow administrator:

-- capable of spelling...

Very important, as it was a root cause in this accident (attaching directly through weaklink line on the end of the tow line to the tow bridle, leading it would seem to the bridal line wrapping up / cinching to the tow line and hence failure to release).

... "bridle" consistently through the course of a sentence? Just kidding.

-- who doesn't think that...

We engage in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction.

...risk is a positive element in a tow operation? Just kidding.

- Cite from anywhere in u$hPa's - or anyone else's - archives in which a towing crash needed or benefited from a very experienced tow administrator.

- Think our very experienced tow administrator is gonna come up with some good insights on this one to help us make sure that...

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

...something like this never happens again?

(This is like sending an R.J. Reynolds Tobacco executive to investigate the lung cancer death of a chain smoker.)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41712
Oh jeez, in Las Vegas

Scot Trueblood - 2015/03/30 13:30:24 UTC

Payout Towing Accident

The question which seems most relevant to me is : How much tow line did they have in the air? A stuck release is easy to deal with at high altitude and high angle above the tow vehicle. On 3 different occasions, I have actually let go of the bar completely to get both hands on the release and manually pull it free. However, in the early stages of the tow, a lockout (which I have never even come close to in a tandem glider) combined with a stuck release could be catastrophic. But why wold the weak link not fail? Maybe too strong of a weak link.

At the end of a tow, we always turn our boat back toward the origin to come back under the glider and assure a better angle for recovery of the towline. The only time a pilot on our system failed to release at the proper time resulted in me simply free-wheeling the drum to allow line to be pulled back out. Fortunately, the pilot, who I won't name but begins with a "Z", realized that it was time to pull the release and it was uneventful.

A lot of unanswered questions here, and sadly we are left with the tragedy of 2 lives lost.
-
Happy Landings...!

Paradise Hang Gliding, Inc.
Bonita Springs

Speaking of...

http://www.adventurousjoecoffee.com/the-buzz/

http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2856/33773258031_4440b8e393_o.jpg
Provided by management: "Fly like a Superhero" 2012/11

"Free Bird..." Barbara K. "The hang gliding group" 2012/12


...the tandem thrill ride industry.

Gregg Ludwig - 2015/04/01 23:52:46 UTC

Unfortunately weaklinks are not equipped with smart chips and the weaklink does not know if the glider is locked out in a wingover or going straight down after overflying a tow vehicle at the end of a tow.

Of course it does...

Donnell Hewett - 1981/10

SKYTING - An Optional Towing Technique
Part 2: Limiting Towline Tension

A properly designed weak link must be strong enough to permit a good rate of climb without breaking, and it must be weak enough to break before the glider gets out of control, stalls, or collapses. Since our glider flies level with a 50 pound pull, climbs at about 500 fpm with a 130 pound pull, and retains sufficient control to prevent stalling if a weak link breaks at 200 pounds pull, we selected that value. Of course, a pilot could deliberately produce a stalled break at 200 lbs, just as he can stall a glider in free flight. But if he is trying to limit his climb rate and the forces exceed the break limit, the glider simply drops its nose to the free flight attitude and continues flying. If the weak link breaks (or should the towline break) at less than the 200 pound value, the effect is even less dramatic and controlled flight is still present.

Most people are amazed at how small a string is needed for the weak link of a tow system. In fact, many people upon seeing it in operation for the first time make a comment something like "Don't you need something a little stronger than that? It's going to break!" But, of course, that's the whole point, it's supposed to break.

Whole fuckin' foundation of safe hang glider towing for over a third of a century. Ya think u$hPa would've given this guy an NAA Safety Award if that weren't solid aviation theory? Donchya think if there were better flavors of aviation theory everybody would be dialed into them already?

But really, as aerotow pilots well understand...

All five of them.

...tow tension may not increase very much or enough to pop a weaklink in a lockout.

It doesn't have to.

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

Actually, that is our expectation of performance for weak links on hang gliders here at Cloud 9, too. Primarily, we want the weak link to fail as needed to protect the equipment, and not fail inadvertently or inconsistently. We want our weak links to break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent weak link breaks from turbulence. It is the same expectation of performance that we have for the weak links we use for towing sailplanes.

We have an expectation for weak links on hang gliders at Cloud 9 and most other tandem thrill ride establishment of our weak links not failing inadvertently or inconsistently, but breaking as early as possible in lockout situations while being strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence. It's the same expectation of performance that we have for the weak links we use for towing sailplanes.

It's a fuckin' piece of fishing line ferchrisake! Donchya think it's gonna meet the expectations of people like Dennis Excellent-Book Pagen and all the top tandem thrill ride professionals in this country and far beyond?

Asshole.

Mitch... If you get a few spare minutes of downtime in the course of your investigation out there in Vegas ya think you could issue an unambiguous statement on this issue to get everyone on the right page?

Steve Davy - 2015/04/05 04:12:50 UTC

Scot Trueblood - 2015/03/30 13:30:24 UTC

But why wold the weak link not fail?

Because that is not the function of a weak link. And you should bloody well know that.

Probably should also bloody well know how to spell "would" but... This is hang gliding.

Maybe too strong of a weak link.

Too strong for what function, Strueblood?

Increasing the safety of the towing operation - PERIOD. What else could it possibly be there for? Protecting your aircraft...

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

...against overloading? Yeah, right. Go back to Tad's Hole In The Ground - Tad-O-Linker. While you're there, ask him why he was banned from every east coast flying site.

And here it is Monday with no response to either Gregg's late Wednesday or Steve's just barely EDT Sunday posts.

Michael (Scot) Trueblood - Florida - 28876 - H4 - 1981/11/22 - R. Davis
- AT FL LGO PL ST TAT TPL TST PA 360 AWCL CL FSL HA RLF TUR XC
- ADV INST, TAND INST

Real quality material you're putting out there, u$hPa. And keep up the great work expelling Bob for his adverse effect and threat to the sterling safety standards of The Jebb Gang at Torrey.

[<BS>]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/daily-times/obituary.aspx?n=arys-thoring-moorhead&pid=174529307
ARYS THORING MOORHEAD Obituary - Farmington, NM | Farmington Daily Times

Arys Thoring Moorhead (2003 - 2015)
Obituary
Arys Thoring Moorhead, 11, of Farmington, passed from this Earth on Friday, March 27, 2015.
Arys is survived by his parents, Brik Moorhead and Michelle Schneider; brothers, Kyle Schneider and Corbin Moorhead; grandparents, David and Lucy Schneider; great-grandparents, Stanley and Dorothy Oloff of Parhump, Nev.; and many aunts, uncles and cousins from the Four Corners and the Pacific Northwest.
Arys was preceded in death by his grandparents, Sam and Linda Moorhead.
Arys attended Mesa Verde Elementary, where his classmates remember him as always having a smile on his face and as being joyful, happy, fun and kind-spirited.
Arys had a network of close family and friends that he would game with online, and together they talked, laughed, explored and played. Arys enjoyed being adventurous with his family and loved the outdoors, going camping, hiking, swimming and riding ATVs. Together, they spent time going to Chokecherry, Navajo Lake, Chico, Mont., and the Pacific Northwest, building many happy memories.
Arys was loving and loved. He will forever be in our hearts and will be forever missed. The family invites all his friends to join them in a celebration of life at 1 p.m. Friday, April 3, at McGee Park, 41 Road 5568, Farmington.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/30 23:29:59 UTC

Hi folks,

I understand the interest in learning the cause of this, but could we please not speculate on the forum? We have a very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Shipley) headed to Las Vegas to do an accident investigation, and when we learn what really happened we'll convey that information to our members. He'll be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth.

Meanwhile, please refrain from offering speculation or opinion on what might have happened, what might have been theoretically done to prevent it and so on. Emotions are raw, people are hurting, and uninformed speculation doesn't help anybody. News reports are of little use since they're written by people who have no idea how our sport works or what is typical.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

Well Mark, that was nine days ago - twelve since impact. I'm guessing our very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Risk-Man Shipley) a quarter to a third of the way through his meticulous investigation at this point - flight data and cockpit voice recorder analysis; recovery of the video card from the driver's digestive tract; eyewitnesses interviews; autopsies reports; analysis of tubing failure; parachute check; hydraulic braking system; winch; towline; weak link appropriateness; release type and easy reachability...

Any chance we muppets could get a few preliminary findings to help us weather the nonspeculation period a little easier?

2015/03/24, Germanwings Flight 9525, Airbus A320-200, a hundred and fifty people snuffed - no survivors, crash site six thousand feet up in the fucking French Alps. Three days later the whole fucking planet knows exactly what happened and why. But I guess those folk aren't doing the kind of thorough, meticulous, professional investigation demanded by u$hPa standards as conducted by a Mitch Risk-Man Shipley caliber very experienced tow administrator.

So can you identify these two of the local instructors Risk-Man will be working with? As far as I can tell from u$hPa's website...

http://www.ushpa.aero/instructors_map.asp?state=nv&div=Both&view=list
USHPA - Instructors Map

...all the hang gliding instructors in the state of Nevada were killed on a platform tow launch at Jean Dry Lake Bed on 2015/03/27. So I'm guessing you're talking about PARAGLIDING instructors - which is probably why you're identifying Risk Man but not the instructors. Got any videos of them platform launching their paragliders? Preferably with their tandem skydiving students? So how come Risk Man needs paragliding instructors to help him investigate a platform fatal? They got as much or more than the platform experience Risk Man does? Or are they just also pretty good at spin and cover-up?

How come you said he'd "be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth" and not the driver?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/07 18:24:58 UTC

You're the one speculating on Zack's death... not me.
Hell, you've even already come to your conclusions... you've made up your mind and you "know" what happened and what to do about.
It's disgusting and you need to stop.
You weren't there. You don't know.
All you have is the tug pilot report, who himself says he doesn't know... and HE WAS THERE... and he doesn't know.

Ever heard of "Confirmation Bias"?
Because you're a textbook example.
You were out looking for data to support your preconceived conclusion, rather than looking at the data and seeing what it tells you... which is why this is the first time we've heard from you and your gang.

Go back to Tad's hole in the ground.
While you're there, ask him why he was banned from every east coast flying site.

How can people WHO WEREN'T EVEN *THERE* **POSSIBLY** ever know or find out what happened?

Or are you implying that the driver's a lying motherfucker whose incompetence/negligence was the primary or total cause of this double fatal - despite him not having been charged by police investigators...

KSNV-8-21819-1


...with so much as a parking violation? And if you ARE implying that what's your basis for doing so? Do you have information that there was some kind of criminal negligence involved and, if so, why are you withholding it from the authorities - along with us muppets of course? Would that conflict with u$hPa's cover-up strategy?

Hey Mark...

From anywhere in the archives of hang gliding show me an "accident" report - legitimate or il - that appears to have taken much more than an hour and a half to investigate, finalize, and submit.

Show me an accident report that wasn't a degradation of the information that was known on site within the first two or three minutes.

P.S. You didn't really need to ask the Jack Show douchebags not to speculate. There's only two or three of them who have attention spans longer than ten or fifteen minutes. That fucking thread has been stone dead for nearly a week now.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1802
Jean Lake

Bill Cummings - 2015/04/08 21:08:24 UTC

Free,

Warren Narron - 2015/04/03 18:44:34 UTC

A reliable, instantaneous release at the right time, without removing hands from the control bar, IMO, would have been the only hope to recover from that situation.
After decades of towing, this type of release isn't readily available and not commonly used.

Pictures indicate to me that the tow line was at the crash scene and was never released.

*WHAT* PICTURES?

- The towline was connected to...

23-03400
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8755/16371420963_2fb0bb7c9b_o.png


...the bridle on Kelly's harness.

- Kelly's body...

KSNV-9-24015-6


...was separated from the glider before any choppers got to the lakebed. And I rather doubt there were any Aussie Methodist nutjobs around to make sure the protocol of never being in a harness unless it's connected to a glider was enforced.

The only thing you can tell from any photos is that the glider SLAMMED in at a steep angle.

And you don't need any fuckin' pictures anyway 'cause there are several zillion statements on the media that the glider went down still "teathered" to the truck that have been contradicted by NO ONE - particularly by the driver.

I'm thinking...

Oh good. I can hardly wait.

...now that towing instruction should have any student taught during ground school the basics of weight shift control and how to release from tow...

Yeah Bill. These tandem flights are INSTRUCTION with GROUND SCHOOL.

...should the instructor undergo a medical event that would prevent the instructor from releasing and steering the glider.

Yeah Bill. That should GREATLY reduce the fatality rate associated with tandem instructors having medical events which prevent them from releasing and steering the glider - as was OBVIOUSLY the case in this one. There's just no other sane explanation for a pilot of this caliber not being able to release and safely steer the glider.

Lessons to the student on where the BRS deployment handle...

*WHAT* BRS handle? Nobody flies with that shit anymore.

...is and when and how to deploy it might improve the odds.

Obviously. They won't have time to pull a release lanyard before slamming in but they WILL have time to pry the parachute out of the container, toss it, have it extend, deploy, and stop the glider - flying the glider all the while with the other hand. Maybe doing a bit o' chest compression and mouth-to-mouth if things seem to be going reasonably well.

Bill Cummings
Contributor

Bob Kuczewski - 2015/04/08 21:19:06 UTC

Bill, you make an excellent point.

Doesn't he always. And then we have Sam's mirrors to prevent unhooked launches. Hang gliding problems are having a virtually impossible time keeping up with Bob Show solutions.

An easily deployable reserve system might have worked in this case.

Pure genius. But would anyone expect anything less from...

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/14 18:53:30 UTC

It's hard for me to imagine the kind of human being who would write something like that on a public forum to someone as experienced and thoughtful as Bill Cummings.

...someone as experienced and thoughtful as Bill Cummings?

And if not this one, than possibly others.

Like the ones the previous and following weekends!

Scott C. Wise - 2015/04/09 01:08:43 UTC

These are all very good comments.

The best. This is the kind of quality you get in an organization which, unlike others, Kite Strings, really does honor the free speech of its members.

But imagine trying to (pre) "instruct" an 11 year old boy on how to do these things.

Goddam! You're right! These tandem operations aren't really safe places for people of varying ages to visit.

It's not likely to work.

Oh ye of little faith!

That's why a minimum age requirement should be set for all u$hPa tandem instructional flights.

God fuckin' damn right!

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=463
Davis Straub's "Oz Report" Conflict of Interest

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/03/09 02:33:49 UTC

This is going to sound cold, but I believe people have a right to make their own choices. I don't want a "nanny state" where anyone is telling me what I can and can't do ... for my own good. The sport of hang gliding would surely not exist if that thinking were carried to its logical extreme. There's something bred into all living things that urges them toward taking some degree of risk in their lives. Those who want to forbid that risk are essentially snuffing out the human spirit itself. I can't support that. I do support information. I support good information. I support exposing bad information. But I don't support dictating what anyone can or can't do. The fundamental principle of economics (and evolution) is two words: "people choose".

When we talk about the human spirit and people making their own choices we CERTAINLY don't mean people of varying ages! We don't want them going up on TANDEM instructional flights because they might not be able to safely fly gliders, release, deploy parachutes in low level lockouts induced by driver fuckups and invisible dust devils while their instructors undergoing medical events the way anybody over the age of...

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/19 18:31:10 UTC

I have posted a link to your web site with a warning that I do not recommend it for anyone under 18 ... which I do not.

...EIGHTEEN can be safely relied on to do. Solo flying with Hang Three ratings and all the signoffs, high school football, doing 75 on the Interstate in rush hour traffic - no problem. Just no tandem instruction and communicating with T** at K*** S******.

TOTAL FUCKING LUNACY. C'mon Uncompromising Freedom Fighter Bob... Where's all the usual?:



Hey Scott... How 'bout three year olds in cars? Shouldn't we be training them to be able to steer and brake to get the car safely stopped on the shoulder in the event their dads undergoing medical events on the freeway?

Lemme tell ya sumpin', motherfucker...

When I was at the Kitty Hawk Kites ride factory in '82 I had people who came down there to learn to fly hang gliders somewhere in the high single digits. One of them was this wonderful little just barely high enough to go on this ride eleven-year-old that I got to take through his sessions.

Towards the end I had him flying the 140 Eaglet from a hundred feet in gusty semi-soarable air. Gave him some fairly complex instructions, stepped back, said quietly to another instructor, "Watch this." I was totally confident in him and the flight was a thing of total beauty.

I don't want any of you Bob Show motherfuckers telling him how he can and can't fly, that he needs to wear his helmet while clipped in between flight, and/or who he is and isn't allowed to communicate with.

But I sure wouldn't mind telling him to never ever have anything to do with any of you hook-in check skipping, easy reaching, pin bending, fishing line popping, parachute tossing, nanny stating lunatics.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/faq.php
Frequently Asked Questions

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Everyone has to do their part once in a while. If you see something that's not being done correctly, then it's your duty to speak out.

Nuthin' not being done correctly here, Bob. So make sure to be careful not to speak out and pretend that speaking out will have some effect on something.