http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16991Tad Eareckson wrote:Can ya point me to any Jack or Davis Show threads on ground handling?
FPeel wrote:Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: San Jose, CA
2010/05/06 23:04:02 UTCAll puns intended?bobk wrote:As a member of the "Turtle Club", I can say that you have to be on top of your wing at all times.
Bob Kuczewski - 2014/12/28 06:21:51 UTC
Re: The Bob Show - 2014/12/27 18:52:46 UTC
Hi Tad,
I've publicly stated that I appreciated your integrity on the Torrey issue even though we're not on very good terms. I've done the same for you in the past, and I will do it again in the future.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally don't think it's fruitful to respond to all of your attacks. In the past that has only produced more animosity.
Even when we were on good terms, our discussions became divergent.
Silence is not consent. It's just silence.
BobHey Bob...
When you get attacked - unfairly - on the Jack and Davis Shows and by USHGA, USHGA operatives, the Jebb Gang, the San Diego police there's always lotsa response.
You and your buddies and supporters quote the posts and messages and pick them apart point by point, counterattack, discredit the enemy forces, score lotsa points. Even Steve and I - who both hate your fuckin' guts - have done that sorta stuff on your behalf.
So how come when mostly Tad mostly rips your ass to shreds over here with "The Bob Show", 406 previous posts, probably eighteen thousand or more non robot hits, NOBODY - not you, Scott, Sam, Rick, Bill - EVER denies, contests, responds to ANYTHING? Could it POSSIBLY be that one hundred percent of mostly Tad's points, charges, attacks are totally one hundred percent ACCURATE and LEGITIMATE?
Pretty fuckin' tough to make a case otherwise - 'specially in the wake of the unqualified support you've gotten and will continue to get over this Torrey situation.
Also pretty fuckin' tough to make a case otherwise given that stuff on which I attack you is all echoed by others and also without contradiction or challenge.
Quote me something you've ever publicly stated crediting me with "integrity"...I've publicly stated that I appreciated your integrity on the Torrey issue...
...on ANYTHING.Bob Kuczewski - 2011/12/13 05:55:39 UTC
This has not been easy or fun. This has been a sad realization for me that some people are so pathological that they cannot interact reasonably with others. That's why so many societies have jails (or death penalties). At some point, they've realized that the costs of interacting with pathological people is too high to be paid. We're reaching that point.
Your choice....even though we're not on very good terms.
See above.I've done the same for you in the past...
Anything wrong with the present?...and I will do it again in the future.
Oh REALLY? Here's your bullshit mission statement:I can't speak for anyone else...
You're running a dictatorship and totally addicted to first person plural, collective, speaking for anyone/everyone else - regardless of whether or not the people whom you claim to be representing actually exist. You use first person singular so seldom I'm astonished that you can get verb agreement correct most of the time. And every time you use stuff like "we", "us", "our", "US Hawks" guess who knows he's being very specifically, definitely, totally, permanently excluded.What is the US Hawks?
The US Hawks is a national hang gliding organization designed to give all hang glider pilots a platform for sharing information and a focal point for pooling their efforts to further their own flying and the sport of hang gliding.
What does it cost to join the US Hawks?
Currently, membership is free. The US Hawks will follow the model of the Torrey Hawks by providing a voice for all hang glider pilots. The Torrey Hawks did this on the local level, and the US Hawks will attempt to do that on the national level. There may be a time when we need actual money, and we'll address that issue then.
Why do we need another organization?
The need for choice on the national level has been clear for some time. The HGAA, for example, was originally formed to be more of a grass roots organization than USHPA. However, it was quickly overtaken by those who again concentrated power and shunned opposing viewpoints. So the US Hawks was formed to provide yet another alternative.
Won't the US Hawks further fragment our resources?
Hang glider pilots typically pool their resources to reduce the costs of insurance and to lobby for protection of flying sites. There's no reason that the US Hawks couldn't team with either USHPA or the HGAA on both of those issues. In fact, having multiple organizations might increase the total number of people participating, and therefore increase both the insurance pool and the lobbying efforts.
What will keep the US Hawks from becoming another USHPA or HGAA?
You will ... hopefully. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Everyone has to do their part once in a while. If you see something that's not being done correctly, then it's your duty to speak out. One big difference between the US Hawks and other organizations is that the US Hawks really does honor the free speech of its members.
Will the US Hawks offer insurance?
Not at this time. The HGAA is currently working to see if they can get independent insurance. The outcome of their effort will tell us a lot about the "lay of the land" with regard to insurance. One option that I've suggested before is requesting to be included on USHPA's (or even the HGAA's) insurance with a small markup. That means we would have to follow their rating standards which are not unreasonable at this time.
Will the US Hawks try to replace USHPA or the HGAA?
No. I started the HGAA because I wanted pilots to have choices. Eliminating USHPA (or the HGAA) would reduce our choices and that's never been my goal. Pilots who like USHPA should have USHPA. Pilots who like the HGAA should have the HGAA. And pilots who like the US Hawks should have the US Hawks. As I said when founding the HGAA, more choices gives us a better chance of each pilot finding an organization that they like. Hopefully those organizations (USHPA, HGAA, US Hawks) will all work together to make our sport better. They each appeal to different kinds of pilots and that's likely to give us more total pilots participating in our national organizations. Win. Win. Win. I hope the US Hawks' relationships with USHPA and the HGAA will be positive.
How will the US Hawks try to be different from USHPA or the HGAA?
The US Hawks will try to be more of a grass roots organization - more like the start of hang gliding. There's nothing wrong with the strong central control exhibited by other organizations, but the US Hawks will appeal to pilots who want more local control and greater personal participation in decision making. We believe that good decisions sometimes require a significant effort to dig into the facts. Sometimes arguments are heated, and that's not something to be feared or rejected. That's the process - painful or not - that leads to better decisions.
Is there a Board of Directors for the US Hawks?
Not yet. The HGAA's early problems arose because different people wanted to take the organization in different directions. That created power stuggles which cost the HGAA some of its early leadership. For now, I'm going to take the US Hawks in the direction that I believe is right. If people want to go along, then they're welcome. If not, there are at least two other alternatives.
Can local chapters join the US Hawks?
Certainly. We currently provide a public forum for each of our chapters to keep them better integrated with the national organization. We may be the first national hang gliding association to do that (watch for others to follow).
Do all local chapters have to have 'Hawks' in their name?
No, but you might think so given our first 3 local chapters (Torrey Hawks, Tooele Hawks, and Lakeview Hawks)! Any club is welcome to apply for membership. All we really want to see is that the club is sincere in being a member of the US Hawks and that they have a desire to promote and protect the sport of hang gliding in their local area.
Do I have to be a member of the US Hawks to use the forum?
No, but your membership in the US Hawks would show a more sincere interest in our organization and an appreciation of our efforts. Eventually we may provide additional services for actual members or place limitations on non-members.
Can I donate to the US Hawks?
No. Our model is based on freedom of speech and freedom of representation. But thanks for asking!! If the US Hawks begins to offer expensive services (such as insurance) then we may have to charge for those services.
If I can't donate, then what can I do to help?
Just try to visit the forum regularly and post as often as you can. It also helps if you spread the word about the US Hawks and try to bring in new members.
Super, Bob. Then obviously you should never respond to any of them....but I personally don't think it's fruitful to respond to all of your attacks.
1. Try responding honestly sometime and see what happens.In the past that has only produced more animosity.
I don't think we were ever on good terms. You were conning me, I was seeing and hearing what you wanted me to and what I wanted to believe.Even when we were on good terms...
Then at least one of us wasn't staying on topic....our discussions became divergent.
Is that carved in granite somewhere? Seems to be a total contradiction of what I view as the keystone of your alternative hang gliding association:Silence is not consent. It's just silence.
If I see yet another Greblo victim standing on launch with a dangling carabiner and say nothing is that just silence? If a video card recovered from the glider clearly shows me looking down at and reacting to the aforementioned dangling carabiner and saying nothing what kind of response do you think I'm gonna get when I go to the services to pay my respects?What will keep the US Hawks from becoming another USHPA or HGAA?
You will ... hopefully. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Everyone has to do their part once in a while. If you see something that's not being done correctly, then it's your duty to speak out.
Wanna reduce the level of animosity a bit? Go back to that thread and do something decent - for a big change. Shouldn't be all that much trouble for you. That motherfucker got really softened up after trying to pull the same shit on The Davis Show in late August.Silence is not consent. It's just silence.
I'm a member of the Turtle Club many times over. But it's always been my take that it's better to be under your wing at all times.Bob Kuczewski - 2010/05/06 22:27:52 UTC
As a member of the "Turtle Club", I can say that you have to be on top of your wing at all times.
I never was. It's about twenty times easier to maneuver a glider in strong air with somebody with a few ounces worth of common sense on a wing and I never hesitate to ask for and give it. Fuck these testosterone poisoning cases who feel the need to show how manly they are by eschewing help ground handling and launching.Never be afraid to ask for help.
Exactly.Also, if you spend some time on launch offering to help others you won't feel so out of place when you need a little help yourself.
So's responding to posts honestly and not spewing out crap like:I think offering to help pilots on launch is another nice little thing we can do to build camaraderie in our sport.
Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/19 00:11:35 UTC
TadEareckson wrote:Blah blah blah blah blah
But do try to launch in high winds unassisted as much as possible so Bob can more easily sabotage implementation of any substantive implementation of the USHGA regulation mandating hook-in checks just prior to launch with crap about raising wings into turbulent jet streams.Finally, remember that all aerodynamic forces go up as the square of the relative velocity. So a 10mph breeze may seem pleasant, but a 20mph wind is generating 4 times the forces on your glider. Respect those forces and you'll be a much safer pilot.
So much crap on so many levels. It's just so exhausting to keep you pinned down. But, of course, it goes right back to the point of the very post to which you were supposedly responding.Bob Kuczewski - 2014/12/28 06:21:51 UTC
I've publicly stated that I appreciated your integrity on the Torrey issue even though we're not on very good terms. I've done the same for you in the past, and I will do it again in the future.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally don't think it's fruitful to respond to all of your attacks. In the past that has only produced more animosity.
Even when we were on good terms, our discussions became divergent.
latunatexx - 2010/05/03 21:51:05 UTC
Citrus Heights, California
I'm having trouble ground handeling my Falcon 2 225, in winds 15+.
I'm 6'2", weigh 245 lbs, and I'm not a sissy. That being said, I'm getting tossed around like a little girl. I once got turtled on the 600' at Ed Levin, and messed up my wing. Now I make sure and ask for a wire person, when the winds are up.
What I would like to know, has anyone had this problem, and if so, how did you overcome it. I know I have to keep the nose really low, but the minute I pick up the wing, I have a really hard time controlling it.
Last week at Fort Funston, I looked totally out of control, just trying to get out to launch.
I don't have the money to go to a Sport 2 yet, so I need to learn to control the beast. Any help, would be greatly appriciated.
Yours trully
Girly Man
Dennis Wood - 2010/05/03 22:05:46 UTC
don't feel but so bad bout this. remember, a sheet of plywood is 32 square feet. iffin you was up on a roof in a breeze, you'd sure ask for help. your wing is almost 7 times as big as a 4x8 plywood. don't worry bout perception. tell those lazy beyatches to grab a nose or side wire and help a bro out. don't know your launch, but might be some turbs hanging out just to mess with you. you do know how to get to Carnegie Hall, don't you?
Frank Peel - 2010/05/03 22:08:16 UTC
San Jose
Ground handling in wind is more finesse than muscle. The answer is to let the glider fly. Being heavy handed can make it worse.
The angle of attack will be close to the same as launching. If the glider does start to get out of shape simply put the control bar down, step on it and point the nose at the ground. Relax, ease the glider back into flying position and try again.
Still, though ground handling in wind does get easier with time and practice, on some days it's simply a bear that has to be wrestled. Gusty, switchy days are especially taxing.
Jason Rogers - 2010/05/03 22:57:39 UTC
Port Macquarie
If it's smooth coastal air you shouldn't need to control the glider at all. Just let it fly and don't mess with it. You can virtually ignore the glider and just walk around with it above you without touching the controls. In fact you should be able to complete a whole flight without touching the controls if your landing is directly in front of your takeoff.
If it's rough air then you need wire assist, you won't be 100% sure that you can control it at all times without that.
So either way, don't beat yourself up that you're having trouble ground handling the glider, smooth air you don't need to, rough air you shouldn't try.
=:)
PS, these comments are about controlling the glider on the ground, not launch. When launching you must be able to control the glider without a wire assist. If it's too rough to control the glider in the 10 seconds prior to launch, it's too rough to launch. (in my risk/benefit opinion)
fireforthall - 2010/05/03 23:20:52 UTC
Blackfoot, Idaho
I to have a 225 and though i can handle it ok in the wind, its getting it turned around that is a bitch!
Jack Barth - 2010/05/03 23:38:14 UTC
Moving to launch
Never be afraid to ask for assistance. If it's 15+ it's probably a good idea anyway.
If you have to go it alone, be ready to bury the nose in the dirt at all times. Putting a foot in front of the control bar also provides leverage to assist in dropping the nose. Move short distances and re-establish control. Your a big dude and should be able to power it to launch. The word finesse was used, and that's exactly what it takes. Also moving to the launch at an angle can absorb some of the lift and turbulence. Move indirectly side step towards launch. Seriously drop the nose when coming around into the wind. Landing in high winds is another story.
You may need to use the nose wires to bury the nose asap upon landing.. Unhook and go around to nose asap and wait for help.
Paul Hurless - 2010/05/03 23:47:15 UTC
Some pilots are probably afraid to ask for assistance because they might feel embarrassed about needing help, but you won't be nearly as embarrassed as you would be having to ask for help getting your wing flipped right side up again.
Like several others have already said, it's a finesse thing moving the glider and getting it turned around in windy conditions. The glider wants to lift up in the wind, use that to your advantage.
Robert Seckold - 2010/05/04 00:47:35 UTC
As others have said correctly finesse is the way to go, although I will say even at Stanwell some days when the wind is chunky, the only way to get to launch is with wire assistance. Even if you have to ask a tourist to hold your nose wire is better than flipping over and hitting him anyway.
Dennis Wood - 2010/05/04 01:00:26 UTC
some mention has been made of glider becoming turtled. this is about as easy to right as anything i can think of.(if you're not still attached) simply spin glider till leading edge is perpendicular to wind. slightly lift wing, while holding nose (of glider). glider rights itself, with nose directly into wind.
Jack Barth - 2010/05/04 02:47:45 UTC
Double surface can be just as hornry.
Michael Farren - 2010/05/04 03:23:51 UTC
South Bunbury
The 225 wing would have to be at the upper wind speed range in 15+ even with 245 lbs. Considering that the wind gradient above launch will generally increase, the ground handling issues might indicate that it is on the strong side to launch safely for this class of glider. With or without wire men to assist.
Diev Hart - 2010/05/04 06:47:56 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8JX6d6bh6Q
there is my high wind landing and some ground control...or not.....
notice how I land, pause, relax, then try to move.....I usually can make it back to the breakdown area with patience, but this day was nutty hard and switchy...so why struggle if someone will help...we stopped and watched other land (I rested).
Now the real question is....
Are you one that unhooks so your glider might lift and fly away (and not bring you with it)???
Or are you in the camp that thinks it is better to stay hooked in to keep your glider from lifting off, and use your hangstrap tension to help control your glider?????
Mike Jefferson (SlopeSkimmer) - 2010/05/04 06:53:25 UTC
Sometimes my 225 gets bumped around too. I hook in at 175ish. I found it gets better if I go upright and turn around backwards. Like this...
Steve Seibel - 2010/05/04 07:56:42 UTC
Finally someone has figured out that the scoops on the sail are supposed to point forward to catch the wind. I wondered when you all would get it!
Jason Rogers - 2010/05/04 08:37:47 UTC
I always chuckle to myself when I see those cargo pods on top of cars with the pointy end forwards and the blunt end to the back.
=:)
fakeDecoy - 2010/05/04 10:17:55 UTC
Fort Funston
You just have to put in some time ground handling at Levin or Funston. You don't get good at ground handling in strong winds unless you do it a lot.
Allen Sparks - 2010/05/04 12:19:11 UTC
Latunatexx,
I ground handle my 225 in wind (15+) and have the same problem, but I'm much lighter. Fortunately I've not been turtled, but I was ~forced~ (i.e. chose) to launch prematurely (recently) so I wouldn't get turtled.
This stuff might be obvious, but in case not ...
Use the grapevine grip, not the beer bottle grip when handling in higher winds. One foot in front of the basetube to help keep the nose at the proper AOA. Nose too low can also be a problem.
Wheels suck for this. It is the one (and only) reason why I might choose to leave the wheels off. Being able to pin the basetube to the ground really helps.
Having a loop of webbing attached to the noseplate/keel also really helps when trying to unhook and move the glider in high winds .... when done flying. I step through the bar and grab the loop, then unhook.
I don't unhook unless I plan to take my harness off. I've launched unhooked and wouldn't expect to survive it again.
Mike Jefferson - 2010/05/04 18:13:54 UTC
It all comes in time. Call me next time you come to Funson and I will show you a few tricks. I was quite busy last time you were there. I believe it was also a bit bumpy that day.
Note: We are taking some hang 2s down to Big Sur this weekend, y'all should come out and fly.
Jason Boehm - 2010/05/04 18:53:26 UTC
whats the forecast like?
J ball - 2010/05/04 19:24:44 UTC
Who ever told you, you weren't a sissy?
for similar probs, I'm tryin to find some grippier gloves or maybe some tennis wrap on my dts for a lil better grip.. I have a heck of a time gripping the contoured dts..
latunatexx - 2010/05/06 15:53:25 UTC
Hey Jballs, thanks for giving me up. These guys don't know me as well as you do, so I appriciate you telling everyone the reality.
Chris and I are going to Marina this Saturday, for the Wind Festival. I'm going to bring my glider, just incase. Hope you guys have a great weekend at Mt Tam, and the Fort.
I'll see you guys at the Cyote Howl next weekend. OH, THAT'S RIGHT, YOUR ONE OF THOSE GUYS, WHO THINKS IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO PICK UP THEIR NEW GLIDER AT THE WW DEMO DAYS. We will miss you, and I hope your new toy is the best thing ever.
Diev Hart - 2010/05/06 20:42:53 UTC
Every pilot should have a rool of "Gaffers tape", that stuff is the bomb and works great on slippery DTs....
Matthew Hendershot - 2010/05/06 22:00:46 UTC
Arroyo Grande
Re: whether or not to unhook immediately upon landing in "fresh" conditions...
I think that's a nuanced question.
I think that pilots with a lot of experience and skill handling their wings are possibly better off staying hooked in--although turbulent conditions could be too much even then...
But I feel pretty strongly that low-airtime pilots are best advised to unhook immediately.
I've been in the habit of walking the 50 feet or so from my landing spot to the breakdown area at my local coastal site. So far, so good. I'm comfortable doing it. But I'm going to change that habit from now on after witnessing more turbulent conditions there. I only have a little over 30 hours logged, and my ground handling skills are OK--but not great.
Bob Kuczewski - 2010/05/06 22:27:52 UTC
As a member of the "Turtle Club", I can say that you have to be on top of your wing at all times. Never be afraid to ask for help. Also, if you spend some time on launch offering to help others you won't feel so out of place when you need a little help yourself. I think offering to help pilots on launch is another nice little thing we can do to build camaraderie in our sport.
Finally, remember that all aerodynamic forces go up as the square of the relative velocity. So a 10mph breeze may seem pleasant, but a 20mph wind is generating 4 times the forces on your glider. Respect those forces and you'll be a much safer pilot.
Frank Peel - 2010/05/06 23:04:02 UTCAll puns intended?As a member of the "Turtle Club", I can say that you have to be on top of your wing at all times.
OK Bob...zilifrom - 2010/05/07 07:25:45 UTC
Northern California
I'm hoping this is something that comes with time and time spent working out triceps.
OK, definitely isn't the first time, probably won't be the last. That's how come I've always been a big fan of...Bob Kuczewski - 2014/12/29 17:54:25 UTC
Tad, you asked me to correct you if you're wrong.
Well, you're wrong. You're absolutely undeniably wrong.
You mean you could CORRECT ME?I could tell you where you're wrong...
Waste more of my time....but I think it will be more instructive...
Well, that should be loads of fun....for you to figure it out on your own.
I'll probably need a copy of your logbook to be able to make much progress.I'll look forward to your correction...
OK......and your explanation of how you ended up with 2 + 2 = 37.
Some asshole too fuckin' stupid to know when he needs crew and too irresponsible to post a report someplace where people can actually see it.Bob Kuczewski - 2011/07/23 19:33:40 UTC
Earlier this year I was flying at Torrey when I witnessed a friend of mine get blown over on launch (broken bones ... healing nicely as I've heard). That was while he was doing his level best to just control the glider. Do you want to add more tricks for people to perform on a tricky launch?
"just prior" in the same post. Also some asshole too fuckin' stupid to know when he needs crew. Oh well, you DID verify that you were hooked in at launch position, possibly just prior to when you were planning on launching.I was flipped over on launch when I was a hang 2. I had my hands full (obviously more than full) just trying to control the glider ... let alone attempting to let it just "lift and tug" without pulling me off my feet.
Don't mention it.Thanks,
Bob Kuczewski
I got a real question for ya, Diev...Diev Hart - 2010/05/04 06:47:56 UTC
Now the real question is....
Are you one that unhooks so your glider might lift and fly away (and not bring you with it)???
Or are you in the camp that thinks it is better to stay hooked in to keep your glider from lifting off, and use your hangstrap tension to help control your glider?????
Bullshit, fake. You just need the two hours of airtime that's required for a Three.fakeDecoy - 2010/05/04 10:17:55 UTC
Fort Funston
You just have to put in some time ground handling at Levin or Funston. You don't get good at ground handling in strong winds unless you do it a lot.
You wouldn't have been if you'd had adequate (any) crew.Allen Sparks - 2010/05/04 12:19:11 UTC
Latunatexx,
I ground handle my 225 in wind (15+) and have the same problem, but I'm much lighter. Fortunately I've not been turtled, but I was ~forced~ (i.e. chose) to launch prematurely (recently) so I wouldn't get turtled.
Long as you're absolute certain you won't finish your flight downwind.Wheels suck for this. It is the one (and only) reason why I might choose to leave the wheels off.
And it does the precise and sometimes extreme opposite in the course of a landing.Being able to pin the basetube to the ground really helps.
Yeah, and we all know how PLANS often go out in the real world - particularly the real hang gliding world.I don't unhook unless I plan to take my harness off.
I know this is somewhat ancient history... But it's not like I and others hadn't written extensively about hook-in checks long before this. That's totally insane.I've launched unhooked and wouldn't expect to survive it again.
A minute or two. I can't think of anything in this sport more ten year old kid kite flying stuff than this issue.Mike Jefferson - 2010/05/04 18:13:54 UTC
It all comes in time.
Tricks that can't be described in print for the benefit of everybody. I was a fuckin' Jockey's Ridge dune instructor and I really doubt you've got any "tricks" that I haven't seen and done.Call me next time you come to Funson and I will show you a few tricks.
Hang Three times three.Matthew Hendershot - 2010/05/06 22:00:46 UTC
I've been in the habit of walking the 50 feet or so from my landing spot to the breakdown area at my local coastal site. So far, so good. I'm comfortable doing it. But I'm going to change that habit from now on after witnessing more turbulent conditions there. I only have a little over 30 hours...
Well then make sure you keep that helmet on until you get that glider safely parked. And if you insist on landing on a SPOT......logged, and my ground handling skills are OK--but not great.
...make sure to use a really good helmet.Doug Doerfler - 2011/03/02 05:24:44 UTC
Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.
Fuck that. There's NOTHING fundamental in hang gliding that should take anything beyond a modest percentage of average strength. If you're going all out you're doing something wrong - in this case moving and handling a glider without help. If you're doing ninety percent I one hundred percent guarantee you Mother Nature's gonna notice and hit you with one fifty at the precise instant Murphy says she will.zilifrom - 2010/05/07 07:25:45 UTC
I'm hoping this is something that comes with time and time spent working out triceps.
Hey Bob...Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/19 19:12:48 UTC
As it stands (and evidenced above), Nobody remains free to post in the "Free Speech Zone" even to this day. Despite Tad's complaints, that's far more of a voice than Tad has given to myself on his forum. So Tad, if you want to argue for Nobody to post MORE on our forum, then maybe you should FIRST allow me and others the same posting rights on your forum that he ALREADY HAS on ours.
...to permanently silence opposition. Make a case that that was the motivation in your situation. Compare/Contrast with Yours Truly. I was "suspended" for three months from the forum of the local club of which which I'd been a member for decades and an officer for years for going after Rooney and Rooney Links six years ago this month and I don't think anyone over there has once so much as whispered my name in any context since.Warren Narron - 2010/09/14 15:01:39 UTC
Every banning that I have experienced has also had an element of cowardice.
Banning opposing opinions is always the law of the lowest common denominator.
Discussions and ideas are limited to the base level intellect of those with the power of the mouse click banning.
The group as a whole suffers those limitations.
Warren Narron - 2012/01/06 18:55:32 UTC
Going against the grain here, but someone has to point out that the probable best candidate to write a training manual has been banned from this site.
Hey Bob...Bob Kuczewski - 2012/01/07 17:59:55 UTC
I'm looking for people who can work together to build an on-line training manual for hang gliding. Yes, that does require a certain amount of agreeability and willingness to compromise. The only Training Manual that Tad can build is the one where he has 100% control. I hope he does that at http://kitestrings.prophpbb.com/, and we'll be happy to reference his work.
The Official Flight Training Manual of the U. S. Hang Gliding Association is a total piece of shit and was produced by one corrupt lying motherfucker with massive conflict of interest issues who had one hundred percent control and accountability to NO ONE. So how come you never seemed to have any problem with it before, when, or after you were a USHGA Director?HANG GLIDING FOR BEGINNER PILOTS
By Peter Cheney
Published by Matt Taber
Official Flight Training Manual of the U. S. Hang Gliding Association
Is that what you want? A training manual out of a committee of agreeable people WILLING TO COMPROMISE, assholes who've explicitly stated they want to work cooperatively on the project with other Bob approved agreeable assholes WILLING TO COMPROMISE? Or would you rather have one that was produced with one hundred percent control by someone widely recognized in the top circles as "the best" and wasn't willing to compromise on so much as a punctuation mark?Bob Kuczewski - 2012/01/07 17:59:55 UTC
I'm looking for people who can work together to build an on-line training manual for hang gliding. Yes, that does require a certain amount of agreeability and willingness to compromise. The only Training Manual that Tad can build is the one where he has 100% control. I hope he does that at http://kitestrings.prophpbb.com/, and we'll be happy to reference his work.
Also note that I've created the Training Manual Forum as a place for working on the Training Manual. This could have been done outside of the US Hawks forum by personal collaboration or email or by many other means. But I wanted lots of people to be able to see what we're doing and offer comments, so I decided to make it a public part of the US Hawks Forum.
On the other hand, working on a training manual will require a coordinated effort by several dedicated people. The actual writing process is not helped by allowing people to derail the discussions. So that's why the Training Manual Forum is limited to posting by people who've explicitly stated they want to work cooperatively on that project.
With that thought in mind, it would be good to have a topic where anyone can comment or contribute without being a member of the Training Manual Team. This topic is specifically for that purpose. Please feel free to post your own (or even someone else's) comments or contributions to this forum any time.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpgZack C - 2011/08/12 13:09:22 UTC
These statements baffle me. I judge someone's ideas by their own merit, not my assessment of his character. I'd rather have the best hang gliding instructor in the world than the nicest, even if the best was a total d*ck.
