launching

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xnv0HWXEv4
Bills Hill accident

Felix Cantesanu (FelixFlying) - 2013/05/05

Bills Hill accident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xnv0HWXEv4
Felix Cantesanu - 2013/05/05
dead

Well, let's make it a little LESS private...

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First frame.

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Shadow of soaring glider on bright green treetop - below right wing and above orange streamer - crossing to the NNE/left. (Compare to previous frame.)

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Wire assistant arrival.

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Pick-up.

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Commitment.

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Highland Aerosports / Blue Sky / Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney hook-in check a frame shy of 52 seconds into the video.

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Now go to the basetube so's you can pull in and get out of there.

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OK, now pull in.

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Any time now.

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You really should be pulling in. That right wing won't be flying any faster as you're turning in that direction.

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Never mind.

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[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5844
My "top landing" at Bills Hill

Felix Cantesanu - 2013/05/08 01:36:48 UTC

Yes, you guys are completely correct.

I watched the video again after a break, with a "fresh viewpoint" - as an outsider looking at someone else's video. I can see clearly what went on now, without the "fog" of the memories I had from the actual flight:

I simply stopped "launching" when I initiated the premature right turn, and let the bar out way early. I also do think I could of been pulled more in as soon as I went to the base tube. By the time I turned right I was near trim and already in a "ridge pass" mind set. The right turn went too far (as Bacil correctly stated) - I then struggled to fix a continuing right turn only with side weight-shift, without pulling in. As I approached the hill and tree line I pushed the bar out more - guess I was anticipating the impact and probably tried to make it less brutal.

Right after the accident I looked at the video over and over again, started analyzing it frame by frame and "splitting the atom". I was pulling at straws and watching every twitch of the Telltale to see what went wrong and what crazy wind got a hold of me... I was looking for the problem in the wrong place - I was doing this because I was remembering having a strong launch; I am confident in my launches and so I took that possibility out of the equation. I do see clearly now that while my initial launch looks good, by the time I went prone, to the base bar, I simply did not pull in enough. Also, once the "shit hit the fan" my reactions are most definitely "piss-poor" - you can call my flying piss-poor anytime you see me do it Brian, I do not mind one bit.

I cannot believe the guy I'm watching is me. I have flown in similar and stronger conditions several times before. I know better! WTF was I doing?
I know that speed is your friend on launch and landing, especially more so when conditions are rough. What made me let the bar out so early?? I can't say... I remember it felt OK to do that at the time - that feeling cost me a LOT.
I did go back and watched a bunch of videos from previous mountain launches and was glad to find those look very different. I normally have the base bar much more pulled in and for much longer. Why not this time? I had a great flight at Calvert Cliffs the day before - was I too tired and still stuck in smooth conditions mode?

I cannot believe I wrote that perhaps Mr. Larry Banner didn't watch the whole video before posting. I would like to apologize to him and to you all. I am sorry! I made an ass out of myself. I was in a daze and perhaps felt my ego being attacked, it was already fragile after what happened, a humbling experience.
I do believe I have a touch of the "Intermediate Syndrome", I'll try and keep that in check.
There are many lessons for me associated with this accident - I am glad and lucky to be fine and will be a better pilot all around for it.
You all have provided me with valuable input that I appreciate it all!
Hope to see many of you soon in the air.

I simply stopped "launching" when I initiated the premature right turn...

It wasn't premature. It was too slow.

I also do think I could of been pulled more in as soon as I went to the base tube.

- More than what? I don't think I ever saw you come back from trim.

- Oh! So you're saying you can't pull in worth shit while you're on the downtubes. Any thoughts on the implications that has for Christopher's Five Second Rule and...

http://www.rmhpa.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5545
"Jedi" Joe Julik - Gone But Never Forgotten

Tiffany Smith - 2014/09/30 15:28

Joe had been at Whitewater, MN all weekend, towing and flying his happy head off. Sunday night he made a deal to purchase a Topless glider.....he was landing his first flight on it Monday morning when he stalled after transition and couldn't recover....landed hard.

...upright landings?

By the time I turned right I was near trim and already in a "ridge pass" mind set.

I did something like that once at Woodstock on 1988/07/02 'cept:
- it was well after completion of a left turn
- I:
-- got really clobbered by something
-- immediately knew that if I'd been carrying more speed it wouldn't have happened
-- left the heavily wooded rocky slope on a stretcher (not seriously injured but massively battered and bruised)

I am confident in my launches...

And your hook-in status.

...and so I took that possibility...

...along with the one that you might have a dangling carabiner...

...out of the equation. I do see clearly now that while my initial launch looks good, by the time I went prone, to the base bar, I simply did not pull in enough.

At all.

You all have provided me with valuable input that I appreciate it all!

And now you can lock your video down...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29209
Just another tree landing.

Tom Lyon - 2013/06/07 03:52:08 UTC

I'm glad that the pilot was willing to share this video.

...and eliminate it as an educational tool.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1635
Pterosaurs

Rick Masters - 2014/11/16 16:28:29 UTC





http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2014/11/06/tricky-take-offs-may-have-limited-pterodactyl-size/
Tricky take-offs may have limited pterodactyl size

Washington Post - 2014/11/06

Pterosaurs had wingspans of up to 35 feet, and the largest of them may have weighed a quarter of a ton. That's a good ten feet larger across than the largest known flying bird to have ever lived. Those massive birds couldn't even fly by flapping their wings - their bodies were so heavy they had to glide. Some researchers have argued that the largest Pterosaurs must have used similar hang-glider-like tricks, or not flown at all. But now we know that pterosaurs simply flew differently than birds do. Instead of running and flapping their wings, the pterosaurs used all four limbs to launch themselves up into the air.

http://pterosaur.net/flight.php
Pterosaur Flight

Anhanguera santanae in the vault phase of a quadrupedal launch, just after the hindlimbs have pushed and before the forelimbs unload, which will provide most of the takeoff power. Image by Julia Molnar
Life in the air by Mike Habib

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=756
2011 US Nationals, Big Spring, Texas

Yeah Rick...

Rick Masters - 2011/08/05 23:18:20 UTC

Jeez, two tug pilots killed so far this year and they're holding tow-me-up-Scottie Nats.
Call me old-fashioned, I never towed. If I can't footlaunch off a mountain, I'm not interested.
Besides, what could be more boring than drifting over flat land?
But that's just me being a curmudgeon.
Have fun if you think that's what fun is.

-- Spoiled by Owens Valley

Lemme know when you've figured out how to vault yourself off of flat ground and into the air and flap your way up to workable altitude.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32314
Blown "launch"

michael170 - 2015/01/11 19:33:15 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoJKlgI75sA

Oh, this is gonna be so much fun.

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Too bad that wasn't an aerotow launch. If it had been the standard aerotow weak link would've broken before he could've gotten into too much trouble.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32314
Blown "launch"

Tom Lyon - 2015/01/11 19:59:50 UTC

I hope the pilot wasn't seriously injured, of course.

Well, as long as it wasn't Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney or anybody of that ilk... Sure, why not.

OK, I'm trying to understand what happened.

Try to understand what DIDN'T happen. You'll save a lotta time that way.

I'm quite inexperienced.

Your point being ?

-The wings weren't balanced. I'm guessing that was the most critical factor.

The whole fuckin' "launch" was the most critical factor.

-When the pilot...

When the WHAT?

...said "clear" and started to launch...

That's pretty debatable.

...his feet didn't move. He pushed out with his arms and increased the angle of attack. I'm guessing that this also significantly contributed to the blown launch because he didn't move the CG (his body) forward initially, so the wing as unloaded with an increased AOA, which made it impossible for the pilot to make any effective correction to the right.

Maybe he was trying to hook a thermal to the left.

-The was no "walk, jog, run" phase at all. This is not a place that I would have considered launching from, but I have only a handful of launches anyway.

So? Wind straight in, glider properly trimmed, crew neutral... No brainer. It's the light air shallow slope stuff that scares the crap outta me.

Am I understanding this fairly well?

Fair enough. Do you really need to ask these asshole?

Comet - 2015/01/11 20:07:27 UTC

There was so much wrong with that launch I hardly know where to start...

1) The uneven ledge in front of the pilot created unequal forces on his wings (note how there is hill under the right wing, open space under the left).

2) The wire assistants, by holding the glider, were masking the unequal pressure.

That's what they're supposed to do. If they didn't we really wouldn't need wire crew. My gripe is that they weren't doing it enough.

3) The pilot was too far back from the edge - should have been right at the edge with glider nose pointed slightly downhill. You can't launch a steep slope from flat ground.

So much for cliff launches.

4) The glider's launch angle was far too high, virtually horizontal on a 50-degree downslope. Again a result of launching a steep slope from the flat.

5) His right wire person says, "Hold on, I'm pulling down over here." Pilot almost immediately shouts "clear" and launches.

Everything wrong with this launch could have been mitigated by moving to the right as much as possible, moving out to the edge as far as possible, pointing the glider's nose down the slope.

smokenjoe50 - 2015/01/11 20:27:04 UTC

Thats what happens when you let the nose out and don't run. This pilot clearly has no idea what he is doing. Who launches with the downtubes in front of their sholders?

People who fuck up.

JJ Coté - 2015/01/11 20:35:21 UTC

Get a topless, stand still, say clear...

...skip the hook-in check...

...and push out until the gentle breezes waft you away, that's what I was always taught...

Yeah, that pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/11 22:17:41 UTC

Old news.

- Yes Paul. So old that out of the eighteen participants in this thread so far you - apparently - are the only one familiar with the incident.

- Name something in hang gliding that ISN'T...

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...ancient history. 39 posts, 1230 hits so far, asshole.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32314
Blown "launch"

Dave Brose - 2015/01/11 22:58:58 UTC

Dude that looked like it hurt.qk

michael170 - 2015/01/12 00:55:22 UTC

Does anybody here think that the right wire person could have done something to help the guy out once he had committed to go?

There? Probably not.

Karl Allmendinger - 2015/01/12 01:06:35 UTC

This brings up an interesting question. What do you do if you are seriously pulling down or pushing up on a wire and the pilot says 'Clear!'?
- Let go?
- Keep an eye on the other wire to see if the glider is balanced or not?
- Do whatever it takes to keep the pilot from crashing?
- Don't be wire crew unless you have confidence in the pilot?
- Don't ever be wire crew?

I'm gonna do whatever I can to maximize the safety of the launch.

Tom Lyon - 2015/01/12 01:08:34 UTC

Not according to the way I was trained. Once the pilot says "Clear!" you let go no matter what.

You were trained by a bunch of total fucking assholes at Lockout Mountain Flight Park. The only thing they're any good at is covering up incidents.

Tom Lyon - 2015/01/12 01:17:56 UTC

I received pretty thorough training at Lookout on how to be a wire crew and how to direct a wire crew. I can't comment on other training methods, but I was quite impressed.

Me too. Probably not in the same way you mean though.

The pilot gives a thorough briefing to the crew before stepping up to the launch.

That tends not to happen in the real world. In the real world most of the time you've got a lot of people in the setup area who have enough common sense to crew without some stupid thorough briefing.

All aspects of being a member of the wire crew are covered, so there isn't any confusion about what you want them to be saying to you, where you want them to hold the wire, all of it.

But once the pilot says "Clear", you've got to let go no matter what.

Why? 'Cause that's what you were taught by the assholes at Lockout?

To me, this makes the most sense.

Big fuckin' surprise.

It may be a bad decision on the part of the pilot, but the consequences of a well-intentioned wire crew member trying to help after the pilot says "Clear!" could be bad.

How could they get much worse than what we saw here?

The wire crew is welcome to stop the launch anytime they feel it's necessary to do so up to that point, but not when the pilot says "Clear!".

Yeah, we sure don't want people with functional brains and common sense constantly assessing situations and reacting accordingly.

fly,surf,&ski - 2015/01/12 02:47:28 UTC
Torrey Pines



The wire person is NOT the Pilot in command.

Really? Maybe you could point out exactly who WAS the Pilot In Command on this one? All I saw was a passenger/victim being taken for six second long ride.

For all we know the wire person could be a wuffo anyway...

Yeah? And?

Also IMO it would not have mattered since the AOA was so wrong and the run so weak anyway...

Oh, it wouldn't have mattered. So if it wouldn't have mattered then how much harm could the right wire have done by aggressively pulling the right wing down? How much worse could she have made things?

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/12 03:00:19 UTC

It is the responsibility of the pilot to ensure any wire crew is actually clear.

Yeah? I believe he did that. So tell me how much it helped.

Launching without taking a last look around is asking for trouble.

But go ahead and skip the hook in check 'cause, hell...
- I just did a hang check two minutes ago, ferchrisake.
- The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.

michael170 - 2015/01/12 03:53:09 UTC

Let me rephrase the question.
Does anybody here (with some reading comprehension skills)...

Anybody THERE with some reading comprehension skills? Good freakin' luck.

...think...

THINK?

...that the right wire person could have done something to help the guy out once he had committed to go?

NMERider - 2015/01/12 04:08:55 UTC

Not very likely. Any intervention may have resulted in a much harder impact by causing a wider turn back into the hillside.

Yeah, the really smart thing for the right wire to have done would've been to push the wing up some more to decrease the turn radius. I'm pulling the fuckin' wing down hard 'cause the "pilot" intended to have his wings level and was undoubtedly assuming they were - and that's what I'd want a crewman to do for me if I ever fucked up like that.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32314
Blown "launch"

Jack Barth - 2015/01/12 04:10:01 UTC

No! I recently helped launch a high hour Eteamer in a high wind condition in very rocky terrain. As we walked to launch and he was stepping into launch position the nose came up and he took off prematurely immediately hollering clear.

Must've been trying to verify that he was hooked in using Tad's lift and tug technique and stupidly raised his wing into the turbulent jet stream. What an asshole!

If I had held on to the windward wing as I was doing he would have most definitely hammered in. When your dealing with highly unstable winds during launch If you cant utilize a nose wire person as well then you'll always be at risk.

What's your point? What the fuck does that hafta do with the situation in the video and michael's question?

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/12 04:14:57 UTC

The answer, that should be obvious to anyone with visual comprehension skills, is no.

Guess that rules me out. I'd have said yes.

She is too short to have done anything other than attempting a leap to grab the wire.

Yeah...

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Definitely. WAY...

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...too short.

Anyone who has flown off that launch knows that it would be suicidal to do something like that. It's the lower (cliff) launch at Laguna and it is a serious drop off with the terrain at the edge consisting of loose rocks and dirt.

Now, do you have any real questions or should we just view this as another of your typical troll post?

Lemme try one of my typical troll posts...

How tall would she hafta have been to pull the wing down at THIS:

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point? How tall would she hafta have been...

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...to not let the fuckin' wing get above level in the first place? Why would ANY wire person allow a wing to get up above level in any circumstances unless some idiot testosterone poisoned "pilot" had given instructions to allow him to feel what the wing was doing?

Tom Lyon - 2015/01/12 04:15:23 UTC

My apologies for misreading your question. I'm afraid I skipped right past "could" and replaced it with "should". My mistake.

This is helpful to me in briefing my wire crew, though. I don't want them thinking of anything they might be able to do to help me after I say "Clear!".

If you launch like this guy did what would you want?

As for your question, I don't know.

Ya think she could've done something to make this launch go worse? If she'd shot him in the side of the head would the glider have hit any harder?

Timothy Ward - 2015/01/12 04:22:44 UTC
Mira Loma

Well, I suppose you could make the argument that a wire crew hanging on after the pilot said "clear" could have made him spin immediately around and on top of the wire crew, so that he wouldn't have much speed built up. That might or might not have been a better outcome. Since I don't know the outcome, I couldn't say.

You don't need to say. That's not what michael was asking.

But I imagine the pilot would say the wire crew hanging on to the wire made him crash.

What do you think the reaction would be to a pilot claiming that a crew person hanging onto the right wire made him crash to the left?

I can't imagine any way someone on the wires could have reduced the AoA or increased the forward velocity of the launch. If the pilot had had speed, he'd have had control.

I'm getting a headache.

From what I can see from that camera angle, I'd compare that launch to Walt's Point in the Owens Valley, except that at Walt's I've never had the wind crossed so that I had one wing in the airflow and one wing back. I've never heard anyone describe Walt's as a particularly difficult launch. It's steep and rocky, though.

We can't see what the slope is like beyond the berm, so maybe there's a reason he picked the spot he picked, and maybe it really is a worse launch site than we can see.

And he probably had a really good reason for going off rolled and nose high. Who are we to judge? He was there, we weren't.

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/12 04:33:46 UTC

The pilot said that he screwed up.

We know that already. This is old news.

He didn't blame anyone else...

Should've trained at Quest to have learned how to blame an invisible dust devil.

...and he was lucky to not have any real injuries.

In other words, he could've pretty easily been quaded or killed.

I would say that this launch can be more difficult than Walt's when the wind isn't straight in or is gusty. You are kind of standing out there with both wings not always getting the same airflow.

And setting the nose and right wing high prior to launch may have been a perfectly legitimate response to whatever conditions he may have been having to deal with.

It's also a much shorter launch with not a lot of running room. At Walt's you can run a long way down the hill if you have to.

Or course, it's much better than the old, very short, concrete pad we used to run off there. You could only get two or three steps and then you were off.

Fascinating. And this is relevant to this incident and michael's question how?

[<BS>]

Why would ANY wire person allow a wing to get up above level in any circumstances unless some idiot testosterone poisoned "pilot" had given instructions to allow him to feel what the wing was doing?

Balance is more important to me than level. I use wire deflection to help balance when assistants are needed, but it's not a sure thing. If I can do it myself with their back up, that's my preference. I always thought of it more as self preservation.

aka some idiot testosterone poisoned "pilot"

[Tad Eareckson]

At showtime, yeah, balance, fer sure. But while I'm trying to get set and crap is blowing through - often sideways - I don't need/want my crew to allow me to feel a wing going up twenty degrees. It's such a bitch trying to torque that fifteen foot lever arm down from the pivot point and it used to piss me off when crew guys would meticulously avoid doing anything to put more than half an ounce of corrective force on the wire.

Watch the wing guy here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doe_sNB1wbg


and you get the impression that the wire must be constantly oozing concentrated sulfuric acid. Just looks stupid and irritates the hell out of me. Moving and handling a glider in strong smooth air should be controlled, easy, relaxed, fun.

And in the case at hand here this guy was in none-of-the-above mode. Seems obvious that he was using a wuffo crew he'd carefully trained to not interfere with the wing. I'd wager five bucks that if his instructions had been, "Help me keep the glider level and let go when I say 'Clear!'" he'd have gotten off OK.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32314
Blown "launch"

Alan Deikman - 2015/01/12 04:41:34 UTC

I think there is a point being missed here.

On The Jack Show? No fuckin' way.

Even if the wire helper could have done something to salvage the launch (which I doubt based on the description by Paul H)...

Yeah, let's ignore the video and common sense stuff and base everything on the description...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11998
Tad Report...

Paul Hurless - 2009/05/15 01:43:43 UTC

Yes, I can do better. It took me all of two minutes to come up with a simple (darn, the KISS principal keeps popping up) system that only has two moving parts; the cord to actuate it and the actual release that holds onto the tow line. It's almost completely internal in the control bar and a downtube, only emerging at the control bar for the hand to actuate it and at the top of the downtube where it goes to the release mechanism. No pulleys, springs, or bungees needed. If you are doubting me I could send you a sketch.

...by Paul Hurless.

...she SHOULDN'T have done so.

Yeah...

25-1815
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8680/15642670884_84ea58da90_o.png


Things could've gone a lot worse.

Had that happened the pilot would have had even more false evidence that he was competent to execute that launch.

Yeah, right. He'd have been totally unaware of what was going on with his right wire person and either thought he'd done an absolutely masterful job or that God would always look out for him because he was such a decent person.

He would then be even more at risk at future launches with unjustified self-confidence.

And if he'd been quaded he'd have REALLY learned his lesson.

After this expensive and painful but non-fatal lesson with video evidence, there is a possibility that he might get meaningful training from a qualified instructor.

Right. He's flying a topless but the only way he'll have any possibility of not pulling a rerun is if he gets set straight by a qualified instructor. Ideally...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1238
NZ accident who was the pilot?

Lauren Tjaden - 2006/02/21

I thought I should post this since the phone keeps ringing with friends worried about Jim and wanting information. Here is what I know. Yes, the Jim in the article is OUR Jim, Jim Rooney. It was a tandem hang gliding accident, and it involved a power line. I have no more information about the accident itself. The passenger apparently was burned and is hospitalized, but is not seriously injured. Jim sustained a brain injury. He was and is heavily sedated, which means the doctors don't know and can't test for how serious the brain injury is. He is in critical but stable condition. Tomorrow (which should begin soon in NZ) the doctors will begin to reduce his medication, and they will have more information at that time. There are no neck or spinal injuries. This information has been passed on to me through a chain of several people, so while I think it is all accurate, I am not sure. Lisa from Quest is in contact with Jim's family and also with Jim's employers in NZ. She will send hospital information so you can send good wishes. She will also keep us updated on the most current news about Jim. In the meantime, please do not call NZ or Lisa at Quest. This is a difficult time as many of us love Jim very much, and I know you are all anxious for news, as we are.

...a Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.

At least he has the incentive to do so but unfortunately there are too many reasons that it won't happen.

Bullshit. He fucked up bigtime on that one and he'll NEVER do that again - and it won't be 'cause he spent a weekend at a launching clinic with Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight.

michael170 - 2015/01/12 05:04:37 UTC

NMERider - 2015/01/12 04:08:55 UTC

Not very likely.

Perhaps.

Any intervention may have resulted in a much harder impact by causing a wider turn back into the hillside.

Or, an intervention may have resulted in the guy flying away from the hillside with something to think about.

Thanks for your considered reply, NME.

michael170 - 2015/01/12 05:23:03 UTC

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/12 04:14:57 UTC

The answer, that should be obvious to anyone with visual comprehension skills, is no. She is too short to have done anything other than attempting a leap to grab the wire.

How short is she, Paul?

She wouldn't have had to do any leaping had she held onto the wire in order to help the guy keep his wing down, before and during the "launch".

Anyone who has flown off that launch knows that it would be suicidal to do something like that.

Note that I never suggested anything like that.

Now, do you have any real questions or should we just view this as another of your typical troll post?

Who is "we", Paul?

michael170 - 2015/01/12 05:29:17 UTC

Tom Lyon - 2015/01/12 04:15:23 UTC

As for your question, I don't know.

Honest reply. Thank you!

Paul Hurless - 2015/01/12 05:34:07 UTC

Short, like up to my shoulder.

Your question was "Does anybody here think that the right wire person could have done something to help the guy out once he had committed to go?"

A pilot is ready to go when the glider is up, balanced, and clear.

Very few people under hang gliders are actual pilots.

Or do you believe that the pilot is ready when the wire help is still hanging on?

- I used to - until I saw how spectacularly well this guy did with both of his wire people well clear.

- Pretty much all platform launchers are ready to go with their gliders one nose release pop away from being effectively bolted into launch configuration on the back of the truck.

"We" is anyone who questions you being anything other than a troll when you take such obvious pleasure in posting anyone else's mistakes on here.

- Yeah Paul, we should only look at launches when everything goes just great. Really makes ya wonder why there were so many hundreds of posts following the last launches of Jon Orders and Zack Marzec.

- People who use as their default first person pronoun are invariably arrogant lying total assholes. Bob didn't learn that "I" was a word in the English language until about tenth grade.

What's your experience?

- None of your fuckin' business - asshole.
- Nowhere near what Grant Bond's was. Maybe we can get some good feedback on this one from him.

Are you faultless?

Compared to you? Faultless doesn't scratch the surface.

Do you actually fly?

I don't actually fly. But I'm having more positive influence on this sport than you'd be able to manage in a hundred lifetimes.

Or are you just content with being the Tad conduit?

If he is he's a really good one. 'Cause I hadn't uttered a single word on this incident to anyone until a hair over thirteen hours after you posted this stupid question.

Come on, don't be shy.

He has to be. Jack's already given him two warnings.

You're always so quick to point out the faults of others...

Can you quote me a single word in this thread in which he so much as hints that this guy made a mistake? His posts are ENTIRELY about the possibility that this guy could've flown away with some input from the right wire wuffo.

...let's hear something about you that is relevant to YOUR hang gliding experiences.

And make sure you get something from him about his experience as an astronaut before you let him discuss what might have been done to keep the Challenger from turning into a fireball two weeks shy of 29 years ago.

Or don't you have any?

He doesn't have any. Therefore that Laguna launch was perfect and nothing could've been done to make it more perfect.