instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Dan, Steve, Jim... You guys are SCUM.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

So Mark...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting
Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/30 23:21:56 UTC

Accident report procedure

Davis makes somewhat excessive claims about accident reports. Here's how it really works:

- Member submits an accident report. Could be the pilot who had the accident, or some other witness.

- Accident report is sent to Tim to maintain legal privilege. Tim reviews the report and determines whether there's significant legal risk associated with it. He may redact certain parts (personally identifiable information, etc.) if in his opinion exposure of that information poses a risk to us. If the report is very risky, he may decide that it can't be shared further, and will notify the ED about it. He may also notify our insurers if he sees a potential for a claim, as is normal practice for any incident where we are aware of such a potential.

- Redacted report goes to the accident review chairs, for incorporation into periodic articles in the magazine. Articles focus on root causes of accidents, not on personal narratives or details.

The whole procedure is outlined in SOP 03-16, which you can read by logging into the USHPA website and clicking on "Policy Manual".

MGF
USHPA Regional Director--Region 1 (OR/WA/AK)
We've now established that:

- If a USHGA rated pilot is injured or killed as a direct result of the negligence and/or incompetence of one or more USHGA qualified individuals or officials - instructor, observer, tug pilot, tandem instructor - the report WILL BE either edited to portray any such individuals or officials as totally blameless or shredded and any information released will, obviously therefore, as much as possible portray the pilot or student as negligent and/or incompetent.

- Any discussion of or reference to a new solid procedure or standard which would have obviously prevented the injury or fatality WILL BE squelched.

Review what you've written and make a case to the contrary.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27848
Glad to be back
Chris Kelcourse (krizz9) - 2012/12/24 03:34:14 UTC
Atlanta

I've been gone for awhile due to the hectic situation involved with getting married, some of you may know how that goes. Now that chapter in my life is complete and I am ready to continue on (with a lovely wife by my side). My first objective is to go back to LMFP and get my Aerotow training.
Sure Chris (I'm gonna call you Chris), why not? Wherever you go to get your aerotow training it's gonna totally suck - so why not Lockout Mountain Flight Park?
In looking at my video from last year though, I realized I found the perfect soundtrack to how I felt during that first flight.
Good selection.
Let me know if this music captures that moment for any of you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD8pTU7GgFQ
Hang gliding first flight dramatic repost
Chris Kelcourse - 2012/12/23
dead
I'm sure it does for damn near everyone who's gone through Lockout's "training" program - but no way in hell for me. Back when I was learning we were all flying prone from Day One, Flight One on, those vile upright "training" harnesses hadn't yet devolved, and people would've looked at a first high flight flown upright from launch to landing with the astonishment and horror it deserved.
-
H2, Pulse 10
Hang gliding first flight dramatic repost

I found the song that was going on in my head during this first encounter with the sky, so I had to overlay it on my first flight video.
It should've been something more along the lines of "Let's Go Fly A Kite"...

http://vimeo.com/10550686


...or "New Soul".
It was both terrifying and awesome.
It should've been FUN and awesome. EVERYTHING in this sport should be be FUN. When something's terrifying when you're:
- an established pilot it's either 'cause you fucked up or you had the wrong asshole on the other end of your towline.
- in a training program it's 'cause your instruction sucks.

And I can tell you in no uncertain terms that the instruction at Lockout TOTALLY SUCKS.

I think they engineer their training to suck and keep you scared so they can prolong the period in which you're dependent on them and paying them for lessons, cart rides, tandems, camping, the shit books they sell, downtubes...
I realize this graduates me to senior dork, but I'm cool with it. A couple of you may enjoy it.
No, Chris...
Steve Davy - 2012/08/09 02:02:54 UTC

That was stressful to watch.
That is NOT an enjoyable video.

THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjsp0mH7m0Y


is an enjoyable video. And - except for the thermalling - there's really nothing that Allen, who's been flying pretty regularly since 1976, does that a student on his first high flight couldn't and shouldn't be able to.

You should be so well prepared for a first high flight that you're champing at the bit and slightly pissed off at your instructor for holding you back a little. It should be something that you remember as a totally wonderful experience and those assholes down there at Lockout cheated and robbed you of that experience and memory.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27848
Glad to be back
Guest - 2012/12/24 15:48:21 UTC

Imagine how exciting it will be when you're relaxed, breathing normally and working lift!
So how come he wasn't trained to the point at which he could've been relaxed, breathing normally, and working lift?

On my first mountain flight I was relaxed and breathing normally, gained three hundred in ridge lift, stayed up (over an hour) until the wind died, and had a blast.
Steve Smith - 2012/12/24 16:27:34 UTC
Rio Vista, California

Nice job on loosening up on the death grip but don't forget to breathe and smile dude, you're having fun!!!!
He should've been, anyway. Looks like we're getting a pretty good consensus...
Tad Eareckson - 2012/08/09 03:21:12 UTC

But ya gotta admire the way he was able to do the entire flight on one breath.
...on the breathing issue.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Hey Mark,

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues
Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident.
Let's say that we've just had yet another pilot who was trained to verify his connection with a hang check run off a cliff without his glider and kill himself.
And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey.
And that a couple of dozen years prior and a bit before USHGA started understanding the danger to itself entailed by...
But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault."
...codifying in its SOPs effective safety procedures, it had recognized that the hang check...
George Whitehill - 1981/05

Just doing a hang check is not enough.
...because of the inevitable delay between the verification and...
In many flying situations a hang check is performed and then is followed by a time interval prior to actual launch. In this time interval the pilot may unconsciously unhook to adjust or check something and then forget to hook in again. This has happened many times!
...launch - was a pretty much totally ineffective procedure for preventing unhooked launches and...
If, just before committing to a launch, a second check is done EVERY TIME and this is made a HABIT, this tragic mistake could be eliminated. Relying on memory won't work as well as a deeply ingrained subconscious habit.

In the new USHGA rating system, for each flight of each task "the pilot must demonstrate a method of establishing that he/she is hooked in, just prior to launch." The purpose here is obvious.
...codified in its SOPs a hook-in check - a bulletproof safety procedure for protecting against unhooked launches.

But let's also say that - due to the gross negligence of the national organization in failing to implement and enforce the procedure - no schools or instructors changed their programs and the hang check continued to be taught, pretty much universally, as the procedure to verify the connection and the rate of unhooked launches, of course, continued unabated.

Wouldn't it then make perfect sense...
We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.
...to make every effort to destroy any and every memory of the change in the SOPs and the intent?

- Produce a video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW8qZESnFvQ


...which makes no mention of anything other than the hang check - which, by the way, is not and never has been a component of the rating requirements - and excludes any mention of anything remotely resembling a hook-in check - some form of which is a requirement for all flights of all ratings?

- Exclude articles promoting hook-in checks...
Nick Greece - 2009/10/13 16:03:35 UTC

Hi there,

Sorry it has taken me a bit to reply. Your ideas are being considered at the committee chair level. I sent your article to Joe Gregor, the safety chair, for comment and he will get back to you shortly.

Thanks and let me know if you have any questions!

Nick
...from the magazine?

- Have your scummy douchebag Regional Directors and instructors...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26996
Critique my radial ramp launch
michael170 - 2012/08/27 23:51:59 UTC

Take a look at the first few seconds of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KlcXmWi7ig


Do you notice anything significant happening just prior to launch?
Ryan Voight - 2012/08/28 01:06:07 UTC

Michael means to kindly recommend doing a hook-in check just prior to launching. Why he didn't just say that, I don't know.
BACK TO THE VIDEO THAT MATTERS...
Keith Skiles - 2012/08/28 04:43:23 UTC

Suppose I could do that, never hurts, but I always hang check with assistance prior to stepping on the ramp, and never leave my harness once I get in it.
michael170 - 2012/08/28 05:47:11 UTC

No, Michael means to kindly recommend compliance with USHPA regulations. Regulations that have been in place for thirty-one years.
Ryan Voight - 2012/08/28 06:14:06 UTC

What USHPA reg are you referencing specifically?

And no, in a thread titled "Critique my radial ramp launch" that video is also pretty much entirely off topic.

You want to discuss/debate/dictate people's pre-launch habits, great, just don't hijack someone else's thread about radial ramp technique.

Since this video starts with him on launch, we don't know if he did a hook-in check already, a hang check, a preflight, took a pee before putting his harness on, or drove a hybrid car to launch... Why are you critiquing what you don't know, didn't see, didn't ask about, and isn't what he asked for critique on??? WTF?
...denigrate the regulation, downplay the dangers of unhooked launches and skipping hook-in checks, encourage pilots to expand the definition of "just prior to launch" as much as possible, and attack and attempt to discredit and isolate people to advocate the proper procedure?

To me it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to stop at withholding safety information and procedures from your pilots. If your primary goal is protecting your organization from accountability you really need to go some extra miles.
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Steve Davy »

I think they engineer their training to suck and keep you scared so they can prolong the period in which you're dependent on them and paying them for lessons, cart rides, tandems, camping, the shit books they sell, downtubes...
Lookout charges students using a package arrangement (Eagle package, etc.). So it stands to reason that they're motivated to get students though "training" as quickly as possible in order to maximize profit.

Whether they are using USHPA insurance, their own, or some combination is not clear. However you can bet waivers have been signed in either case and that their only motivation to keep students safe would come from some moral sensibilities. Good luck with that.

I'm sure Matt has figured out that no matter how incompetent his school is, his easily brainwashed students will be and are lining up to broadcast what a great program he's running.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that the typical Lockout first high-flighter is SCARED bigtime from the night before he gets on the ramp until he bonks to a stop in the LZ.

- He's strapped into a harness which...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27885
question about vertical position
Red Howard - 2012/12/28 17:38:06 UTC

If safety comes from more control authority, you have more control authority when prone.
...prevents him from going prone and having anything close to the control authority for which his glider was certified.

- He won't be allowed to touch the basetube until after another couple of flights.

- The bulk of his training has been geared for a standup landing he'll probably never need in the course of his hang gliding career and most assuredly never need in the 44 acre putting green Matt's always touting in his advertisements (the one Bo Hagewood missed on 1991/12/15 when he killed his tandem student and half killed himself).

- His turn training has sucked.

Yes, Matt is undoubtedly financially motivated to push people through his package programs, but I'd still say he's also motivated to prolong the period of dependency.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25656
USHPA Insurance and Risk Management Update
Davis Straub - 2012/04/02 13:01:53 UTC

The basis of a democracy is an educated populace.
Oh yes, Davis. And you've contributed SO MUCH...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?
Davis Straub - 2011/02/07 19:21:29 UTC

Okay, enough. On to new threads.
--LOCKED--
...to make sure the hang gliding populace gets educated just the way you want it educated.
In order to prepare and be motivated to prepare risk management plans, clubs and their safety officers should be made aware of the specifics of the cases that have caused the problems with USHPA insurance over the years and recently.
And your dedication to the improvement of hang gliding safety...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Recommended breaking load of a weak link is 1g. - i.e. the combined weight of pilot, harness and glider (dependent on pilot weight - usually approximately 90 to 100 kg for solo operations; or approximately 175 kg for tandem operations).
Here is the requirement from the 2007 Worlds local rules (which I wrote) for weaklinks:
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlIGsgNFRWM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM


...goes without saying.
I understand why the USHPA wants secrecy.
I'll just bet you do, Davis.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1041
"Sharing" of Hang Gliding Information ?!?
Merlin - 2012/05/26 13:22:30 UTC

I confess to previously having a bit of an Oz Report habit, but the forced login thing has turned me off permanently, and I am in fact grateful. Frankly, the site had pretty much been reduced to a few dedicated sycophants in any case.

I've seen many times the destructive consequences of "control freaks".
Hard to imagine anybody better qualified to speak on the issue.
But secrecy at the USHPA has the same corrosive effect on us as secrecy in government.
Similar to the corrosive effect of repeated concussions on...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in
Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.
...what must've been a pretty fourth rate brain to begin with.
They may not like it, but that's the reality.
No shit. Can't imagine why you and Bob don't get along any better than you do.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25656
USHPA Insurance and Risk Management Update
Mike Bomstad - 2012/12/25 05:04:27 UTC
Spokane

The pilot / glider in question did not use the supplied tie downs that were directly under his glider. (as his girl friend did, glider next to. The one that didnt go anywhere) These were out of town pilots.
Also, this was around 2-3 pm. You should not be setting up at that time, let alone have your glider not tied down.
Yeah Mike?
Holger Selover-Stephan - 2010/07/08 UTC
Portland, Oregon

There are tie-downs at Chelan Butte and this glider was tied down until the pilot removed them to move his glider to the launch.
Chelan, you sould be tied down until ready to walk to launch. Then, get off the damn hill.
But let's say it DIDN'T happen the way Holger said. Are you saying it COULDN'T have happened the way Holger said? That it's impossible to get hit by a dust devil at any point between freeing the glider and getting off the hill? Including the part where you're waiting in line behind a bunch of hang and chin strap checking douchebags?

http://http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21868
Don't Forget your Hang Check!
Eric Hinrichs - 2011/05/13 21:31:06 UTC

I went to Chelan for the Nationals in '95 as a free flyer. They were requiring everyone to use the Australian method, and you were also not allowed to carry a glider without being hooked in.

This was different for me, I hook in and do a full hang check just behind launch right before I go. I was also taught to do a hooked in check right before starting my run, lifting or letting the wind lift the glider to feel the tug of the leg loops.

So I used their method and I'm hooked in, carrying my glider to launch and someone yells "Dust devil!" Everyone around runs for their gliders (most of which are tied down) and I'm left standing alone in the middle of the butte with a huge monster wandering around. I heard later that it was well over three hundred feet tall, and some saw lightning at the top. After that it was clear that no one is going to decide for me or deride me for my own safety methods, someone else's could have easily got me killed.
You got set up gliders, people trying to launch them, and dust devils - you got potential for nasty shit happening.
Idiot.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.bayareahanggliding.com/index.php
Bay Area Hang Gliding Lessons - Bay Area Hang Gliding
Welcome to Bay Area Hang Gliding

If you're looking for hang gliding lessons or tandem flights in the San Francisco Bay Area, you've come to the right place. Our Instructors will help you get into the air quickly and safely. Come join us and experience the joy of foot launched free flight.
Hang gliders are low stall speed, weight shift controlled, cartop portable sailplanes that can be self launched from slopes or towed up from runways. And, as far as I'm concerned, anybody who gives a rat's ass about how he gets himself into the air and to workable altitude can go fuck himself. (Yeah, Rick Masters, you heard me just fine.)
Eric Hinrichs
USHPA Advanced Instructor, Tandem Instructor

Bay Area Hang Gliding is San Francisco Bay Area's premier hang gliding school and shop, BAHG promises to give their students the highest quality hang gliding experience in Northern California.
So what do you think Pat Denevan's saying about Mission?
In March of 2008 BAHG started with some of the best and most experienced hang gliding instructors in California, together these USHPA certified instructors make up the preferred full service hang gliding school.
- Well, if they're USHPA CERTIFIED...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting
Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe.
...that's plenty good enough for me!

- If they're such great fucking instructors and really care about hang gliding where are their voices when we're trying to protect it from scum like Davis, Rooney, Tracy, Matt, and Ryan?
Foot Launch

We specialize in teaching foot launch techniques that you'll need at all the beautiful mountain and coastal sites that you'll be flying.
So without foot launch techniques...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX0D7uryDNE


...you really can't take advantage of any of the beautiful mountain and coastal sites in that neck of the woods? Bummer.
We are also certified by USHPA to teach and sign off aerotow ratings.
Welcome to the fraternity of the densest population of total douchebags aviation has ever seen in its entire history.

USHPA has certified the assholes at Quest and Florida Ridge - who are telling students not to put standard aerotow weak links on BOTH ends of the bridle because that doubles the max towline tension from 180 to 360 pounds and negates the weak link's usefulness as a lockout preventer.

So, USHPA certified aerotow instructors...
- What:
-- are you using for:
--- primary and secondary releases?
--- weak links and why?
-- is YOUR opinion on the breaking strength of a loop of 130 pound Greenspot?
-- did you think about Dr. Trisa Tilletti's weak link article in the 2012/06 issue of Hang Gliding?
We prefer teaching these skills to more experienced pilots because towing is more complicated...
And, of course, because the hardware required for dolly or platform launched towing is more complicated that automatically means towing is more difficult and dangerous than foot launched and landed slope flying.

http://vimeo.com/25631937
Zack C - 2011/03/04 05:29:28 UTC

As for platform launching, I was nervous about it when I started doing it. It looked iffy, like things could get bad fast. I've since logged around a hundred platform launches and have seen hundreds more. Never once was there any issue. I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions). You get away from the ground very quickly and don't launch until you have plenty of airspeed and excellent control.
http://vimeo.com/10550686


Right...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuSHh0nmKkQ

07-1412
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3900/14557433291_0d22597fd6_o.png
Image
http://vimeo.com/34757572


...Eric?
...and we also want your foundation to be with strong foot launching...
...and landing...
...skills.
So you can't develop strong foot launching skills with...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ZTAEkSY0k


...scooter towing?
Is hang gliding safe?
How much time ya got?
You can make hang gliding, like most adventure sports, as safe or dangerous as you want.
Ideally, in a perfect world... yes. Practically, in sport controlled by local, national, and global monopolies - incompetent, accountable to no one, and a thousand times more interested in keeping skeletons hidden than slowing the creation of new ones - GOOD FREAKIN' LUCK.
Ways you can make it safe are to receive instruction from a certified professional and use safe equipment - professional schools will create as controlled a learning environment as possible.
- Instruction from a professional certified by WHOM, Eric?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues
Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.
A national organization which - for DECADES - has been suppressing known, obvious, effective procedures and equipment and at war with anyone and everyone who tries to get things fixed so it can keep killing people at unabated rates, blame everything on the incompetence of the dead guys, and present its abysmal record as the inevitable cost of doing business?

- To what safety standards is the crap you're using for aerotowing certified? Any chance you're using Quallaby/Lookout garbage with known and field proven...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/
Image
Image
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8331326948/

...lethal defects?
Hang gliding is an outdoor sport and Mother Nature is unpredictable - weather is always a big consideration.
Bullshit. We're not crashing gliders because of unpredictable meteorological issues. We know everything we need to about high winds, waves, gust fronts, rotors, gradients, thermals, dust devils, katabatic flows, and density altitudes and how to deal with or avoid the situations they present. We're mostly crashing gliders because we're more interested in practicing our foot landings than stopping gliders in the safest possible manners.
The primary safety factors are personal judgment and attitude.
The primary safety factor for the potential student you're addressing is the competence of his instructor.

And the first thing a competent instructor is gonna do is scare the crap out of his student on the unhooked launch issue and IMMEDIATELY start conditioning him to perform a hook-in check within two seconds of EVERY launch - EXACTLY like you do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9G8ERElpjM

13-03110
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3697/13700915564_87a2a336b0_o.png
Image
Image
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2912/13700562685_86575e9220_o.png
14-03129

But that's not what you teach.

The next thing a competent instructor is gonna do is make sure that his student understands how to most effectively...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27885
question about vertical position
Red Howard - 2012/12/28 17:38:06 UTC

If safety comes from more control authority, you have more control authority when prone.
...and safely...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!
Ryan Voight - 2012/09/25 05:59:51 UTC

You see... the human shoulder limits how far you can pull in. Prone or upright, you can really only get your hands back about even with your shoulders.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses
Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
...CONTROL a hang glider and get him configured properly...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings
Jim Rooney - 2012/01/27 09:20:28 UTC

A while ago, I taught a student... from day one, to land on her wheels with absolutely zero intention of foot landing.
We do this all the time with aerotowing students.
So why not with hill students?

And I mean from day 1.
Yes, even the training hill flights.

Wheels wheels wheels wheels.

As a student, she was only going to be landing in a gigantic, manicured field for a long long time. So what's the bother?
Learn to fly.
Learn to not smash into the earth.
...to do so.

But...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oyDBpMKomw


You start your kids out from Square One flying in shit control / arm break configuration.
You must be willing to learn gradually and use good judgment and have an appropriate attitude.
Sorry Eric, but the first thing you need to learn in this sport, unfortunately, is to...
Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC

I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself (and maybe the people at Wills Wing).
...never trust anyone but yourself - especially when the people at Wills Wing tell you in their owner's manuals methods for making sure you're hooked in at the beginning of the flight and stopping at its end which are radically different from the methods they themselves use for making sure they're hooked in at the beginning of the flight and stopping at its end.
If you don't, then you can get injured or killed; if you do, then you can hang glide until you're 90.
If you're getting training from someone who doesn't know what the hell he's doing or talking about you can learn as gradually as you like and use the best judgment possible and still get injured or killed just fine. And, as far as I can tell, the number of instructors who really know what the hell they're doing and talking about are pretty close to zero. And I'm not seeing a whole helluva lot coming out of Bay Area Hang Gliding to nudge that number up any.
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