Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Could be. And The Pilot agreed to sharing information with the u$hPa safety coordinator for the purpose of improving safety in the sport of hang gliding, so I expect we'll be knowing for sure any day now. (Nice catch. And hard to look at that picture without thinking about what could've happened if the nose had centerpunched the back of The Pilot's neck.)

As I've noted via a PS in (what is now) the first post in this topic, I killed Thursday and then some doing an overhaul of the five photo archive posts. Mostly a handful of new stills (we're now up to 240) - some of them moderately important - with the consequential major pain-in-the-ass reshuffling of the catalog numbers.

Continuing discussion of this Task 3 launch (it's gonna take a book) let's start by backing up to the practice day launch...

Glider starts rolling at 011013.

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At:

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the tug's rolled right wing high and almost certainly fully airborne. And at:

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it's fully airborne without the slightest question. Seven and a half seconds max. If it goes from zero to thirty air/ground speed (no headwind) instantaneously it's eaten up about a football field's worth of runway. But it's not going from zero to thirty and we know there's a headwind 'cause otherwise they wouldn't be using the east/west (north up) runway:

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so considerably less. And this shorter runway is two thousand feet.

Fast forward to Task 3.
08:04 - I had a bit of an exciting tow here... Leaving the airfield the tow speed was too high and I had to bring my knees to the bar to fly fast enough. It slowed down shortly after and was fine for the rest of the tow.
Glider starts rolling at 081256.

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Note tug shadow in upper left corner:

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It's HUGELY airborne a bit under nineteen seconds into forward motion.

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East / Far side up (reasonably consistent with what the camera's seeing)...

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...three thousand foot runway. About a second shy of the end of the sequence:

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Motherfucker STILL has runway to burn. Reasonably safe to say that the shadow's the same distance down the runway that the tug is so he still has a couple football fields (including the two pairs of end zones) going to waste.

Wallaby...

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Up to a couple thousand feet plus. Lockout...

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2200 feet. Manquin...

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1.2 miles. Ridgely...

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Infinite.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=9084
Aerotow problem/question:Properly washed, I think
Jim Gaar - 2008/10/28 15:55:22 UTC

We always told towed pilots that the first 500 feet belonged to the tug pilot. They have enough to do to keep themselves safe.
Jim Rooney - 2008/12/11 18:45:01 UTC

Yup, the first 500ft are mine. Try to keep up. Your tugger generally REALLY wants to help you, and will do all that he can to do so, but he's got trees to stay out of as well.
- Bullshit. Trees, for all intents and purposes at mainstream aerotow operations, are total nonissues. 'Specially the five hundred foot tall ones. Ditto for powerlines. If they actually were we'd have tugs going down into them and most of their drivers being seriously fucked up or killed. Engine problems, power failures are not all that uncommon when one is running tens of thousands of launches - a huge percentage of which are tandem thrill ride pulls.

And when there's an actual power problem with a tug at an actual mainstream AT operation...

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20110723X95952&key=1
National Transportation Safety Board - 2011/08/02

NTSB Identification: ERA11FA413
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, July 23, 2011 in Ridgely, MD
Aircraft: MOYES DRAGONFLY, registration: N402HA
Injuries: 1 Fatal.

According to a flight instructor who was towed aloft by the airplane with his student in a tandem configured hang glider, it was "hot and sticky" that morning and he had briefed his student prior to the flight that it would take a longer ground roll than normal to takeoff. After they took off in tow, the flight instructor climbed the glider up to an altitude of about 15 feet above ground level (agl) behind the airplane. During the tow he observed that the airplane did not lift off until it was near the end of the grass runway. As the airplane reached the end of the runway, he saw the towline "release" from the airplane. He also observed that as the airplane reached an adjacent soybean field, that the airplane was "tickling the beans with its wheels". The flight instructor then continued straight ahead and executed a landing to that same soybean field.
Keavy's not crashing into five hundred foot trees with the glider in tow. She's immediately dumped the ride and goes on to tickle the tops of the two foot soybeans before getting back high over the runway and dropping into a tug totaling and fatal spin.

Catch that, people of varying ages? Actual low level tow emergency that's gonna end up killing the tug pilot and before she's reached soybeantop altitude...

http://ozreport.com/3.066
Weaklinks
Davis Straub - 1999/06/06

During the US Nationals I wrote a bit about weaklinks and the gag weaklinks that someone tied at Quest Air. A few days after I wrote about them, Bobby Bailey, designer and builder of the Bailey-Moyes Dragon Fly tug, approached me visibly upset about what I and James Freeman had written about weaklinks. He was especially upset that I had written that I had doubled my weaklink after three weaklinks in a row had broken on me.

I told him that I would be happy to publish anything that he wrote about weaklinks, but I never received anything from him or anyone else at Quest.

The problem with strong links (neither Bobby Bailey nor I was aware at the time of the US Nationals that pilots were doing this) is that they endanger the tug pilot. If the hang glider pilot goes into a lock out, and doesn't break the weaklink (because there isn't one), they can stall the tug.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Oh how many times I have to hear this stuff.
I've had these exact same arguments for years and years and years.
Nothing about them changes except the new faces spouting them.

It's the same as arguing with the rookie suffering from intermediate syndrome.
They've already made up their mind and only hear that which supports their opinion.

Only later, when we're visiting them in the hospital can they begin to hear what we've told them all along.

Nobody's talking about 130lb weaklinks? (oh please)
Many reasons.
Couple of 'em for ya... they're manufactured, cheap and identifiable.

See, you don't get to hook up to my plane with whatever you please. Not only am I on the other end of that rope... and you have zero say in my safety margins... I have no desire what so ever to have a pilot smashing himself into the earth on my watch. So yeah, if you show up with some non-standard gear, I won't be towing you. Love it or leave it. I don't care.
...she's:

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And here we were all thinking that in actual emergencies tug drivers were all as incapable of squeezing their joystick mounted release levers as all hang glider pilots were of pulling their easily reachable release actuators.

- Oh. Your tugger generally REALLY wants to help you, and will do all that he can to do so, but he's got trees to stay out of as well. So what's the scenario when the glider needs help from the tug but the tug can't help him because he's too busy staying out of the five hundred foot trees? I'm having a lot of trouble picturing it. All I can come up with is the Pilot In Command dumping his passenger to enable the tug to clear the trees while guaranteeing that his passenger will stall into them. Has there ever been anything close to such a situation at any point in the history of any flavor of aerotowing?

- Suck my dick, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

BTW, if you think I'm just spouting theory here, I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC

Here's a little bit of bitter reality that ya'll get to understand straight off. I won't be sugar coating it, sorry.
You see, I'm on the other end of that rope.
I want neither a dead pilot on my hands or one trying to kill me.
And yes. It is my call. PERIOD.
On tow, I am the PIC.

Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every HG pilot on the planet and I get that.
Absolutely no HG pilot likes hearing it. Not me, not no one. BUT... sorry, that's the way it is.
Accept it and move on.
Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense.
We hang glider muppets are just passengers on your certified aircraft for the flight to an agreed upon destination. Our gliders are no longer our gliders for the duration of that period. For that duration they're passenger compartment components of your certified aircraft and you're as legally responsible for their safety as any other pilot of a certified aircraft is of his. If you put your certified aircraft in a situation around five hundred foot trees which results in the injury or death to one or more of your passengers you can be held criminally responsible. You're no different from a speeding drunk driver who puts a telephone pole into the car where the passenger used to be sitting. (Right...

5
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...Evgeniya? I'm guessing so 'cause neither you nor anyone else is identifying you.)

- Also...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=6911
Sunday flying at Florida ridge. -
Socrates Zayas - 2008/05/21 23:53:23 UTC

Florida Ridge Air Sports Park

At 10:30 Eric came out to tow me to the southwest with the wind SSW. That put me right over the right side of the hangar and parking lot. This is a short section of the field but not all that bad as long as you have an exit strategy. I decided I would NOT continue to double the weak link after seeing my wife eat it a few months ago.

It broke at about ten seconds after hitting 800 fpm lift off the LZ!!! Hell of a cycle. The tug and I went up like rockets. But instantly at 200 feet it wasn't all that bad. I flew the U2 into a nice foot landing right by the cars.

Second try:

This time the wind seemed H&V (heavy and variable) and we decided to take off to the southeast. But this gave us a short runway and an orange orchard in front of us and we decided to take off with a bit more speed.

The cycle was nice, nothing out of the ordinary, but just as the tug flew over the fence line of the orchard the weak link broke. It was as if it didn't even break - Eric and I both thought it was a release malfunction. But Axo, Ralph, and I found the release and confirmed otherwise.

I was flying nice with good speed and climbing. I thought "Shit. It broke again. Damn, I don't want to land between those trees, they don't even have the keys to the gate anymore." So I turned to the right cross wind toward the RVs and campfire spot.
Rafael Castro - 2008/05/23 19:52:57 UTC

We all watched his weak link break, it was non-event something that happens all the time...
Axel Banchero - 2008/05/22 04:19:39 UTC

Doc's body wasn't moving and we were shitting our pants until he started talking confused. The first thing I saw was his eye bleeding and swollen the size of an 8 ball. There was sand and dirt inside. Looked like he lost it at first until he could open it a little bit.
You're not allowed to take your occupied passenger compartment up off a marginal runway with it connected to your certified aircraft by a chintzy sub legal safety device which dumps it over an orange orchard and claim you did absolutely nothing wrong.

You motherfuckers wanna help us?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.
Try learning how do do your fucking jobs...

08-19
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...competently.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

Summary: I observed the accident from a few hundred yards away, but could clearly see launch and the aero tow was coming towards my area so that I had a full view of the flight. I was at the wreckage in a few seconds and afterwards gathered the information that helps understand the results of some unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot.

The pilot launched at 12:15 while conditions were just starting to become thermally, with just a slight crosswind of maybe 20 degrees with winds of 8 to 12 mph NNW. The pilot had flown here via AT more than 50 times.

Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly and completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle upon when the tug pilot hit the release and Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force . Holly pulled in to have control speed and then began rounding out , but there was not enough altitude and she hit the ground before she could do so. She was barely 100 feet when she was locked out in a left hand turn. At that time, she was banked up over 60 degrees.

The basebar hit the ground first, nose wires failed from the impact, and at the same time she was hitting face first. She had a full face helmet, which helped reduce her facial injuries but could not totallly prevent them. The gliders wings were level with the ground when it made contact with the ground.

First aid was available quickly and EMT response was appropriate .

Now, why did Holly not have control? Holly has two gliders, a Moyes Sonic, and the Moyes Litesport that she was flying during the accident. She has flown here in much stronger conditions before. and has always flown safely , on both of her gliders, but usually chooses her Sonic if air is questionable, or if she hasn't flown in a while.

Holly for some reason chose to fly her Litesport, she has always towed it with proper releases and weak links and usually seeked advice from me when unsure of something.

This time she couldn't find her v-bridle top line with her weak link installed for her priimary keel release. She chose to tow anyway, and just go from the shoulders, which to my knowledge she had never done before, nor had she been trained to understand potential problems. This could have been done with a short clinic and if we thought it a possibility, been done under supervised conditions in the evening air. Our dollys have check lists for many things, one is that you have a proper weak link installed. She had no weak link as it was normally on the upper line that she couldn't find, and we can only assume that she didn't even consider the fact that she now didn't have a weak link.

These mistakes caused her to have too much bar pressure, farther in bar position, she was cross controlling, and had no weak link. She hadn't flown that glider in a while and changed these towing aspects that I believe all combined to make a violant combination. The pilot also stayed on tow too long. She should have released after the first, or even the second oscilation when she realized that things were not correct. Failing to do so put the glider in a locked out situation that she could no longer control.
Can't we just watch the video of the thoroughly checked off pro toad doing it behind a highly qualified Dragonfly tug pilot in blue sky / weak lift conditions at a major US competition with risk mitigation issues coming outta its ass?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo9Alnq5aa4
Green Swamp Sport Klassic 2018, VLOG

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Looks to me like we just get the bar fully stuffed well inside of two seconds from coming off the cart (while the tug's still on the ground), bring our knees up towards our chests varying degrees to regulate speed as necessary, try to keep the PIO stuff under control, pray that we don't get slammed by a thermal that puts us into an over-the-top lockout and actuates the focal point of our safe towing system. Or am I missing something else that nobody's ever mentioned before?

And if that's it then how come there's no PT Special Skill for which we can get signed off so's we can show it to flight park operators, tug drivers, meet heads so that we're good to go and qualified to fly the appropriate bridles mandatory at all US AT comps?

FL - CL - FSL - PL - AT - ST - AWCL - TUR - RLF - XC - HA. But no PT. Rather conspicuous by its absence, dontchya think?

Come to think of it... Am I the only guy in the room who's never heard of a Pro Toad clinic before? I mean other than the fake ones Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt pretends Blue Sky runs while covering Blue Sky's ass for having two thirds killing Holly and three thirds demolishing her glider.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
Well then, hell, he's at an absolute minimum undoubtedly fully aligned with you in your assertion that...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.
...the tug pilot is the Pilot In Command of the tow and all associated equipment and passengers. We've certainly never heard him, or any other mainstream motherfucker, take the slightest issue with that assertion - TO THIS DAY nearly a decade later.

So then tell me how it wasn't the responsibility of Tex Forrest, Steve's conspicuously unidentified tug driver, the Pilot In Command of that flight, to ensure that either Holly had her v-bridle top line with her weak link installed for her primary keel release or was a qualified Pro Toad passenger with her weak link installed and fully understood her roll, rights, responsibilities as a Pro Toad passenger? And then tell me how his employer and owner of the tug comes off with a Get Out of Jail Free card and untainted reputation?

WHENEVER these motherfuckers produce what appears to be a full and highly detailed incident report the purpose is ALWAYS to mislead, bury the critical issues to the maximum extent possible, dump all the blame and responsibility on their victim. And in this case the victim was 100.00 percent a Blue Sky product.
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<BS>
Posts: 422
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by <BS> »

Another creative way to NOT say there was a weak link break at 1:39.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIhBGR6_BCU
Landing Clinic at the Green Swamp Sport Klassic 2018
Electric winch lost power
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

We need to start and maintain an archive. Could rival the number of different spellings of "carabiner".

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/hollyaccidentreport.jpg
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USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

Summary: I observed the accident from a few hundred yards away, but could clearly see launch and the aero tow was coming towards my area so that I had a full view of the flight.
- How 'bout the Pilot In Command? He was only about 250 feet away from and in front of his passenger module. Does he not have a mirror to monitor what's going on with the back end of his aircraft? Or was he too focused Image on looking out front for one of those five hundred foot trees that Manquin has springing up ahead of launching aircraft all the time?

- Yeah? What were you doing a few hundred yards away that was more important than checking out the passenger module of your total shit trained product as she was hooking up to this tow that would within the following half a minute smash her back into the runway, total her glider, and nearly end her life?
I was at the wreckage in a few seconds and afterwards gathered the information that helps understand the results of some unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot.
- Half dead passenger.

- 'Cause you were too much of a douchebag to get to the launch in a few seconds beforewards and prevent the wreck that was about to happen.

- Oh. You closed the distance to the impact zone in several seconds? So you didn't hafta finish up with the critical task you were engaged in that was thirty times more important than manning launch with a pretense of a competent and certified staffer?

- And here I was thinking that instructors and other ratings officials weren't supposed to sign off candidates likely to make unfortunate poor decisions in the relevant flight operations. So what's your take on that, Steve? I'da thunk it would've been pretty similar based on how you were presenting things in your Blue Sky scooter towing video.
The pilot launched at 12:15 while conditions were just starting to become thermally, with just a slight crosswind of maybe 20 degrees with winds of 8 to 12 mph NNW.
And you're telling us about these conditions because? I've heard neither you nor any other witnesses suggesting that meteorological air movement had the slightest bearing on this incident. Just wanna plant the idea in our tiny little muppet brains so we start assuming that this was a relevant issue and viewing Holly as more of a clueless dork who suddenly decided to operate way over her pay grade minus the any requisite authorization?
The pilot had flown here via AT more than 50 times.
- So what about Holly? How many times had she gone up behind your pilot as a passenger?

- Implying that she may have flown somewhere else via AT a few or more times - which you know and knew bloody goddam well she HASN'T. But you layer on this bullshit to give the impression that you'd been assuming that she'd probably gotten her pro toad certification at Ridgely, Currituck, Lockout and thus weren't particularly concerned seeing her hook up shoulders-only less than a minute prior to impact.

- More than fifty aerotows. THERE. That's a lot of fuckin' aerotows to be as fuckin' clueless as you're painting her with respect to this incident. So what kinda coaching was she getting over this period, Coach?
Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly and completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle...
- Yeah, the tow vehicle. The thing that the tug pilot flies. Real people really talk like that. And the carts are Ground Launch Vehicles. Maybe we don't wanna be more specific and alert people to the fact that it was a trike which couldn't tow as slowly as a Dragonfly.

- What the fuck do you mean by NINETY DEGREES from the "tow vehicle"? She was level with it and at its three or nine? Or Tex was heading 8 degrees down the runway at the facilities end and Holly was heading 98 or 278? Either way it's a total bullshit statement. Both of those are physical impossibilities even with both parties trying really hard.
...upon when the tug pilot hit the release...
One of those releases with which all tugs are equipped which allow the tug pilot to terminate the tow without the slightest control compromise? Funny that the tug pilots are all so incredibly smooth and proficient with this exercise...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
...while one hundred percent of their passengers...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:40:24 UTC

Am I "certain" about anything?
Nope.
However, some things get real obvious when you're doing them all the time. One is that weaklinks do in fact save people's asses.
You're 100% onto it... relying on the skill of the pilot is a numbers game that you'll lose at some point.
...have skills that will inevitably fail them at some point. (Pretty much always when taking a hand off the control bar for a nanosecond will result in their instant deaths. Go figure.)
...and Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force .
- Really? Doesn't the tug pilot use a weak link just a bit stronger than the one at the passenger module end to keep the passenger from getting into too much trouble? And when it works isn't the worst thing that the glider can experience a mere inconvenience? I'm just not understanding how a deliberate release - by definition at below weak link tension - can possibly result in a fairly violent exchange of force.

- How's any force being EXCHANGED, dickhead? The tow force on the passenger module instantly goes to ZERO while the extra drag inhibiting the tug's forward and upward progresses instantly vanishes. And funny you're not saying shit about how the tug was affected by this alleged fairly violent exchange of force. I imagine it was as totally unfazed by it as were all the other tugs we've seen and heard about at altitude and not.

- Well thank you for just verifying that the tug pilot WAS, in fact, totally aware of what was going on behind him, failed to abort the tow at a point when Holly could've safely responded to the mere inconvenience, and pulled the pin on her at a point at which she had zero possibility of preventing a devastating impact.
Holly pulled in to have control speed...
Why? The safety of the towing operation had just been increased, hadn't it? Why should she have had to have done anything to have control speed?

No, wait. It was no longer a towing operation after Tex had made his good decision in the interest of her safety as she was climbing hard in a near stall situation - at the extremity of her third oscilation. I guess she was pretty close to being totally fucked. While, of course, the Pilot In Command was going on his merry way smelling like a rose. (Funny, I'm not recalling Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney congratulating y'all on what a stellar job you'd done.)
...and then began rounding out , but there was not enough altitude and she hit the ground before she could do so.
Pity she hadn't thought to begin rounding out a bit sooner.
She was barely 100 feet when she was locked out in a left hand turn.
She was:
- OSCILLATING - OVERcontrolling. How the fuck do you know she was locked out? I'm thinking it would've been almost impossible that she was.
- a mere passenger. Wasn't it the fault of the Pilot In Command that her passenger module was pretty much lethally out of control?
At that time, she was banked up over 60 degrees.
- Gee. Her passenger module is only certified to bank UP TO 60 degrees. How come her Pilot In Command - who's very conspicuously and currently never had a recorded comment on this near fatal incident - didn't have his ratings suspended or revoked?

- Not to mention ninety degrees from the tow vehicle. And I'm wondering how one manages to bank UP - obviously meaning belly away from the intended tow path - over sixty degrees and simultaneously be ninety degrees from the tow vehicle.
The basebar hit the ground first, nose wires failed from the impact, and at the same time she was hitting face first.
No biggie. She got her face replaced with a nice titanium one - at taxpayer expense.
She had a full face helmet, which helped reduce her facial injuries but could not totallly prevent them.
But partiallly. We're alll good with that.
The gliders wings were level with the ground when it made contact with the ground.
Sounds like Tex's passenger started executing some pretty competent pilot responses when Tex made a good decision in the interest of her safety. And now I'm wondering if there are any other passengers involved in any other flavors of flight operations who are legally required to have pilot competencies and certifications.
First aid was available quickly and EMT response was appropriate .
- Super response, Blue Sky! Did u$hPa ever recognize you with any kind of certificate of excellence?
- Yeah? Tell us all about how the quickly available first aid made the slightest fucking difference.
Now, why did Holly not have control?
- Not really interested at this point. I wanna hear more about the first aid that was quickly available and the EMT response that was appropriate .

- Because she wasn't the Pilot In Command and expected to have any?

- I dunno. You fucking assholes signed her off on her AT rating - along with at least damn near everything else she got signed off on. Seems like she should've had at least SOME control - even if that was her first shot at pro towing. But rather high time and experience Three with at least fifty aerotows THERE at Blue Sky had ZERO control.

- She had TONS of control, dickhead. She was OVER controlling on tow and controlling flawlessly in a near lethal low level emergency situation from the instant your idiot unidentified tug driver made a good decision in the interest of her safety on until she absorbed the crash impact with her face. Or maybe not. Maybe she should've rotated up to the control tubes so's she could've come in feet first. Any thoughts on that?
Holly has two gliders, a Moyes Sonic, and the Moyes Litesport that she was flying during the accident.
- Wow! That's a lot of passenger modules for one passenger to own.

- Not any more she doesn't. 'Cause of you Blue Sky total assholes she now only has a Moyes Sonic she won't be in any shape to fly for a long time.
She has flown here in much stronger conditions before.
You mean stronger than the conditions at the time that had absolutely no bearing on anything in this incident?
and has always flown safely ,
Got news for ya, asshole. Just because one hasn't crashed at the end of a given flight doesn't mean one was flying safely. She was going up on the total shit excuse for towing equipment you sold her and she was always one well timed thermal or dust devil from something along the lines of what she experienced on this one - two or one point. She never ONCE flew safely while connected to anything.
...on both of her gliders, but usually chooses her Sonic if air is questionable, or if she hasn't flown in a while.
- But we're not talking about flying here.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.
Holly had the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver. That means looking out the window until the designated altitude is attained then politely disembarking from the certified aircraft.

- I wonder how she managed to rack up over fifty aerotows in the space of a very short career to that point and still have had periods in which she hadn't flown for a while.

- Bullshit. I haven't flown a glider or anything else in about half a year shy of a decade. I could hook up behind a tug yesterday morning - two or one point - on any high performance glider you wanna name and nobody would be able to tell any difference between me and Davis. And let's note that the only "currency" u$hPa recognizes to maintain pilot proficiency of any kind is to keep sending them dues payment currency. She's got the rating, she's perfectly good to go whether her previous tow was fifteen minutes ago of fifteen years from now. And until u$hPa recognizes Pro Towing as a legitimate skill and establishes a Pro Toad Special Skill rating it makes no difference whatsoever whether it's two point or one. And the top u$hPa and Flight Park Mafia operatives are insisting one is as safe or safer than two.
Holly for some reason chose to fly her Litesport...
- Wasn't her choice to make. Since when does a passenger get to determine what kind of module the Pilot In Command will connect to his certified aircraft?

- For some reason? The implication being that that was an inappropriate choice for this situation? Both you and Tex were fully aware of what she'd set up and plopped on the cart. So how come neither of you consummate professionals dissuaded her from executing this less than stellar decision?
...she has always towed it with proper releases and weak links...
- Suck my dick Steve. You total fucking assholes wouldn't recognize proper releases and/or weak links if they bit you in the ass.
...and usually seeked advice from me when unsure of something.
Any more than you can write with grade school level English competency.

- Like WHAT? You trained and certified her for this game. Give us some examples of the shit she didn't have quite together 'cause you failed to get things across properly before turning her loose in this environment. Lemme start you off with a good one:
She chose to tow anyway, and just go from the shoulders, which to my knowledge she had never done before, nor had she been trained to understand potential problems.
- She seeked advice...
Holly Korzilius - 2006/09

I discussed 'towing off the shoulders' with a couple of other pilots, as this was something I thought I could do with the remaining portions of my aerotow release. I did not discuss my intent to tow off the shoulders with either of the hang gliding instructors present prior to launching. Based on the anecdotal comments/observations I got from a couple of other pilots who had experience towing off the shoulders, I decided that I was ready to try this method of towing.
...from the pro toad pilots AT HAND - seeing as how one of the two hang gliding instructors present was busy flying the "tow vehicle" while the other was "a few hundred yards" down the runway doing something infinitely more important than assisting/supervising launches. And you very conspicuously haven't told us what that was.

So she seeked advice as best as she could reasonably have been expected to and BOTH of the two "hang gliding instructors PRESENT" were 100.00 percent aware of what was going on and only critical of it AFTER the situation turned to total shit.

And note that there is no point that you said: "Holy SHIT! That's HOLLY! Flying PRO TOAD! On her LITESPORT! And she hasn't taken the short clinic we mandate - which, if we'd thought it a possibility, could have been done under supervised conditions in the evening air!"

You were standing way the hell in front of Tex. You knew who was on the cart, the glider she was flying, how she was hooked up, what short clinics she'd completed and hadn't. One of those assholes Holly consulted about flying pro toad checked her out and signaled the tug to commence launch. You could've signaled him to abort - kill the engine, stomp on the release pedal - but you didn't do shit.

Also note that the two obvious Blue Sky product pro toads she consulted didn't ask her anything about whether or not she'd successfully completed the mandatory short clinic under supervised conditions in the evening air 'cause it's TOTALLY FAKE. I note that TO THIS DAY there isn't shit about it or "pro towing" AT ALL on your bullshit website. Not even a photo of anybody doing it or flying free with pro toad equipment.
This time she couldn't find her v-bridle top line with her weak link installed for her priimary keel release.
A PRIIMARY keel release implies a SEECONDARY pilot release. And if she's supposed to have a SEECONDARY pilot release then why the fuck doesn't she have a SEECONDARY pilot weak link?
She chose to tow anyway, and just go from the shoulders, which to my knowledge she had never done before...
- And nevertheless her Pilot In Command chose to tow her.

- So you're not sure at this point. For all you know she could've had a couple dozen pro toad flights at Ridgely and/or Currituck in peak thermal conditions with no problem whatsoever but you're happily pissing all over her for all the poor decisions she made.

My first AT flight 1986/08/01 was foot launched, pro toad ('cause people were still too stupid to have rigged gliders for two point AT), on my Comet 165, behind a Cosmos trike. I had NO control issues - beyond the one relating to that glider requiring massive and constant bar stuff effort to hold it down level with that first semi-practical effort at a hang glider tug.

I had TONS of AT and various flavors of surface tow experience when I was flying Ridgely. And I remember one tow, TWO point, when I got into an oscillation - and ALL oscillations are Pilot Induced - early in the tow when conditions had zilch to do with anything. The Dragonfly slowed down for me, I got my shit back together, we continued uneventfully to release altitude.

So maybe I'd have oscillated on that launch. And maybe Tex would've made a moronic good decision in the interest of my safety the same near lethal instant that he did for Holly and you'd have found some way to piss all over whatever was left of me the same way you're doing her but you wouldn't have been able to use any of your "experience" bullshit.

Also note that you're conspicuously not identifying the tug or saying anything about its driver - identification, qualifications, experience, skill. I'm sure it was a trike and positive it wasn't a Dragonfly and thus had no ability to slow down and allow Holly to get things under control.
...nor had she been trained to understand potential problems.
- Oh! So you DON'T know for sure whether or not she'd pro toad before but you're POSITIVE she hadn't been "TRAINED" to understand potential problems. Bull fucking shit, Steve.

- One doesn't get TRAINED to understand POTENTIAL problems. One gets TOLD what the fucking FIXED problems are and TESTED to make sure one knows and remembers them. Not that any of this is rocket science. Hang gliding had had upper attachments for every towed glider before the douchebags figured out that the lower/main attachment had to be on the pilot rather than the bottom of the control frame.

- How 'bout the "POTENTIAL PROBLEMS" with towing two point? How come we never hear about those and we start off 100.00 percent of our students - 'specially tandem victims - towing two? Sounds to me like you're saying that towing one point is inherently more dangerous.

- Why not?
The pilot had flown here via AT more than 50 times.
- She was virtually a total Blue Sky product, you're obviously the one who signed her AT Passenger ticket, so how come you negligent incompetent motherfuckers never taught her about the "potential problems" of flying the "appropriate bridles" all comp pilots are required to fly due to their superior safety qualities?

- You just referenced a PRIMARY keel release. One needs to have secondary release...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.
...for when your cheap shit primary bridles weld themselves to tow rings over half the time in lethal emergency situations. So how the fuck do you rate her without "TRAINING" her to understand what she's gonna be up against in such an emergency scenario?

- Then why did her Pilot In Command allow her to hook up the passenger module so configured?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.
Seems like just about all of the RESPONSIBLE Pilots In Command even know what fishing line configurations all their passengers are using for their passenger module connections.

- Wanna tell us about the potential problems two point doesn't have? Or would doing that start raising too many questions about the justifications for flying one?
This could have been done with a short clinic and if we thought it a possibility, been done under supervised conditions in the evening air.
- Why wouldn't "WE" think it a "POSSIBILITY"? 'Cause a pro toad configuration decertifies the glider and thus violates the terms of the FAA hang glider aerotowing exemption?

- Who the fuck is "WE"? The same assholes who allowed her to hook up with the shit configuration she did?

- Is there some reason ALL aerotow launches at Blue Sky aren't supervised. Just about every AT launch I can remember making - Currituck, Pike County (Ohio) Airport, Ridgely - involved an assistant helping me move into position...

095-080544
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...checking me out...

096-080735
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...signaling the tug...

097-080952
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...wiring me up to safe airspeed...

098-081525
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099-081606
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100-081638
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http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=587
Holly's Accident
Scott Wilkinson - 2005/05/30 03:16:49 UTC

I want to thank all of the wonderful people and pilots at Blue Sky for the incredible job you all did under extreme stress at the scene of the accident. Hank Hengst had incredible clarity of mind and was extremely effective in taking control. Tim Eggers, Josh Criss, Megan Chapman, Mike Wimmer, Steve Wendt, Tex Forrest, and everyone else were calm, efficient, and did exactly what needed to be done for Holly. From the bottom of my heart and on Holly's behalf, thank you. There couldn't have been a better group of people on the scene.
I think all those individuals 'cept for Holly and her Pilot In Command were on the ground and available at the time. And I believe it was primarily Hank who OKed her for launch in that configuration.

- If this short pro toad clinic we thought might have been a possibility, to be done under supervised conditions in the evening air weren't some total fiction you just pulled out of your ass to cover same, she'd have known about it and taken it. There was no clinic and you motherfuckers never made it clear that she was not to go up pro toad until she'd developed the fake skills required to do so safely. And Tex had pulled her two point on every one of the over fifty aerotows she had taken THERE and both of you motherfuckers were watching her and knew perfectly goddam well she was hooking up pro toad. And here's her statement from the 2006/09 magazine issue:
Based on the anecdotal comments/observations I got from a couple of other pilots who had experience towing off the shoulders, I decided that I was ready to try this method of towing.
There was no clinic and Blue Sky never made the slightest pretense of cautioning her to fly pro toad until after she'd received "proper" instruction.

- How could it possibly have NOT been a "POSSIBILITY" for Holly when nowadays it's pretty much standard operating procedure for any douchebag who feels like going up pro toad, Davis and Quest mandating it for sport class competitors, Wills Wing listing gliders as suitable without any reservations about skill and experience. She'd have needed to have been a total freak to have been singled out as not being a reasonable candidate for the short pro toad clinic you pretend to offer. And I wonder if anybody who wasn't paralyzed from the waist down has ever been identified as not being a suitable candidate for...
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
...working on perfectly timed spot landing flares - which statistically are a fifty times more lethal than flying pro toad.

Also from the same magazine article:
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

It was several weeks after her "release" before this pilot could actually say she was enjoying life once again. She was a reasonably experienced H-3 at the time of her accident, having started her training at Marina State Beach in California in the summer of 2001. By October of that year she had moved to Virginia, where she took her instruction via scooter tow. By December, she had her first solo high flight experience by truck tow. The following August saw her logging flights up to four hours long. In late August 2002, she learned to aerotow, and had logged approximately 75 aerotows (and over 100 truck tows) by the time of the accident. She currently holds special skills signoffs for AT, FL, PL, ST, and TUR, and has flown a variety of gliders including the Wills Wing Condor, Falcon, Eagle, and Ultrasport, as well as the Moyes Sonic and Litesport 4. She was obviously qualified to perform the attempted maneuver (launching via aerotow).
That's u$hPa Four level qualification and experience.
Our dollys have check lists for many things, one is that you have a proper weak link installed.
- Anybody know what a proper weak link is these days? Also what it's supposed to do for us? How 'bout THEN Steve?

http://vimeo.com/116997302

Blue Sky Scooter Towing Method
But with the towline we use a standard weak link like we would for aerotow.... and that in this particular case it's 130... Uh... This... In this particular case it's 130 greenline, 130 pound test.
In that PARTICULAR CASE it was 130 greenline, 130 pound test. Good ol' one-size-fits-all 130 greenline. Nothing better to increase the safety of the towing operation.

- We airline passengers have checklists at all of our seats for what we're supposed to do in preparation for takeoff. But we still have crewfolk repeating them and checking to make sure everyone's in compliance before the plane starts rolling.

- Is one of the other things to make sure you have both pilot and glider bridle connections unless you've been cleared by Blue Sky for just the former?

- How 'bout your tugs? Do THEY have checklists for many things, one of which being that you have a proper weak link installed - in compliance with u$hPa AT SOPs that have been on the book since the beginning of time and the FAA AT sailplane regs that started covering hang glider aerotowing the year before this near lethal clusterfuck?
She had no weak link as it was normally on the upper line that she couldn't find, and we can only assume that she didn't even consider the fact that she now didn't have a weak link.
Or consider the fact that her Pilot In Command's weak link - way up there at the other end of the towline - was much too far away to be able to analyze her situation and break when it was supposed to. Dickhead.
These mistakes caused her to have too much bar pressure...
And tow pressure.
...farther in bar position...
Farther in where?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22233
Looking for pro-tow release
Zack C - 2011/06/16 03:14:35 UTC

I've never aerotowed pilot-only, but it is my understanding that this configuration pulls the pilot forward significantly, limiting the amount he can pull in further.
Davis Straub - 2011/06/16 05:11:44 UTC

Incorrect understanding.
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4174/34261733815_bfb41c49d8_o.jpg
Image
...she was cross controlling...
Oh. So...

- When her passenger module was swinging to port and she'd try to bring it back to the starboard she'd actually effect a port input. So then...
Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly and completed 3 oscilations...
...how was she able to complete three oscilations? If she were CROSS controlling how would she not have just accelerated the roll into a blindingly fast port lockout? When one is OSCILLATING - dickhead - one is continually doing too much of EXACTLY the right thing.
...and had no weak link.
- Which rendered the front end weak link totally inoperable - as any tug driver will be more than happy to tell you.

- So fuckin' what, Steve? In REAL aviation the purpose of the weak link...
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.
...is to protect your aircraft against overloading. And her aircraft / passenger module was just fine until it got splattered back on the runway. So tell me just how that the absence of any or all weak links in this system was any more relevant than what kind of shape her parachute would've been.
She hadn't flown that glider in a while and changed these towing aspects that I believe all combined to make a violant combination.
Plus, of course, the massive incompetence and negligence of your instructional and towing operations.
The pilot also stayed on tow too long. She should have released after the first, or even the second oscilation when she realized that things were not correct.
'Cause Tex had his head way the fuck up his ass and was totally oblivious to what was going on with his passenger. Which is why you're very conspicuously identifying yourself and your victim but saying absolutely nothing about the identity of the tug pilot - who would've had a few thousand times what his passenger did in the way of experience and qualifications.
Failing to do so put the glider in a locked out situation that she could no longer control.
As opposed to a locked out situation that she COULD longer control.

This is such a multilayered, obfuscatory, passing the buck, ass covering load of total crap one has an almost insurmountably difficult time even knowing where to begin. Motherfucker NEVER comes down from his ivory tower to give us muppets the benefit of his exceptional knowledge after a Lenami Godinez-Avila, Zack Marzec, Jean Lake but when he half kills one of his products at his shoddy Industry Standard AT operation he musters all of his third grade level literacy skills to write a virtual book showing us what an incompetent asshole his victim was and how totally blameless he and his pet tug driver and operation were.

And you don't even need to go through and analyze all this crap to know what kind of individual he really is.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
ANYBODY of whom that vile little piece o' shit speaks highly you can safely and confidently put on the list. And you're also not gonna ever be able to find anybody on whom he pisses who's not at the other end of the spectrum.
---
2018/05/04 17:45:00 UTC

MAJOR overhaul.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

While I was working on and submitting my previous I was thinking that my rehashing of the 2005/05/29 Holly Korzilius near fatal at Blue Sky might appear to be of dubious relevance in a topic titled "Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT". And a PM from Steve a bit over three quarters of an hour after I clicked confirmed same. So lemme back up a bit and clarify.

It doesn't matter in the least that the 2005/05/29 Blue Sky Holly was 687 crow flight miles to the ENE of and a dozen years plus a bit shy of ten months prior to the 2018/03/23 Richard/James Westmoreland. Both:
- pro toad bridles
- Industry Standard, cheap shit, bent pin, easily reachable, placebo releases
- no functional:
-- launch crewmen
-- weak links at tug ends
- tug drivers asleep at the fuckin' switches

And the Quest 2016/05/21 Jeff Bohl fatal is a stunningly EXCELLENT match for the two thirds fatal Holly.

The only thing of any significance that's changed between then and now...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Marc Fink - 2007/05/19 12:58:31 UTC

Tad,

The simple fact is that hundreds of thousands of tows using weaklinks in their present configuration successfully bely your contentions that we're all crazy for towing that way.

Simply put, your statements are irresponsible and are based on your personal interpretations.

I am a tow operator--as well as a "towee." I also do aerotow tandems. Using greenline or similar line, which generally tests at 125 lbs +- 50 lbs is widely accepted because it simply works well and relatively predicatably for the enormous range of conditions and applications in towing. If this weren't true, then accident rates would be much higher and these kinds of weaklinks would have been abandoned along time ago.

A 400lb load limit for a solo tow is absurd.
The better part of two decades worth of Standard Aerotow Weak Link total lunacy. And then...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).
The motherfuckers knew that their scam simply wasn't sustainable.

Then...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
Image

Then...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC

The accepted standards and practices changed.

Morningside decided that they were happy with 200lb weaklink.
02-00820c
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http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout
Davis Straub - 2014/09/01 15:22:41 UTC

I can tell you that I fly with a 200lb weaklink on one side of my 750lb pro tow bridle. I am happy with it.
Everybody seems to be using whatever weak links various Industry dickheads (not Dr. Trisa Tilletti fer sure) are happy with. They are no longer:
- the focal points of safe towing systems
- based on track record:
-- length
-- quality
- of any significance:
-- in protection:
--- of:
---- tug pilots
-- against:
--- lockouts
--- getting into too much trouble
--- overloading of one's:
---- aircraft
---- tow mast breakaway
---- release system

No one has the slightest fucking clue what they're supposed to do or how one decides he's happy with one, just a really long list of things they're not supposed to do and an understanding that in recountings of successes of weak links - the ones with the extremely long track records they kept in circulation to prove that they were never the slightest bit more dangerous than the tried and true bent pin barrel release - the success point must never be publicly identified as the weak link and nobody ever heard of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney or any issue he ever raised. (Also never heard of T** at K*** S******.)

So now we hear about line breaks, being shaken off tow, electric winch power failures - all negative, undesirable issues by the way. Jeff Bohl's Tad-O-Link not breaking when it was supposed to - before he got too far out of whack and into too much trouble - was a total nonissue in his fatal Quest low level lockout.

By the same token we no longer hear and will never again hear idiot posts from idiots like this:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3276
Ridgely Sunday!
Chris McKee - 2008/05/26 12:57:18 UTC

Expecting to add to my long list of sled rides this year, I was surprised just how much thermal turbulance was out there on tow. At 2200 feet, I watched as the Tug rocketed up and my glider joined the space shuttle launch a few seconds later. I fell out of the thermal in a hard right turn and knew I had no chance to get back wings level. As I reached for my release, the weak link snapped (AS IT'S SUPPOSED TO) and suddenly I was off tow.
about the wonders of weak links that break when they're SUPPOSED TO because even mentions of the desired, beneficial, convenient, lucky breaks will open up the can of worms that u$hPa and the Flight Park Mafia do not want and will not tolerate being opened up.

Just use whatever some Industry dickhead tells you you'll be happy with. Whatever it is, and however many times as strong as the decades long gold standard was...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Lauren Tjaden - 2011/08/01 02:01:06 UTC

I rarely break weak links -- in fact, I believe the last one was some two years ago, and I have never broken one on a tandem (probably because I am light and also because I change them whenever they show any signs of wear). They are a good thing to have, though!!
...it's a good thing to have! ('Specially if prevents line breaks and electric winch power failures and keeps you from being shaken off tows by thermals at 800 feet.)

Anyway, if it's:
- technology, standards, procedures, policy we saw at the 2018 Green Swamp Sport Klassic
- shit we know was still in play at the time
- crap they've spewed in the past and haven't denounced or retracted
no matter how many decades in the past or what corner of the planet we're seeing it in...

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds
Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

Rohan Holtkamp did an analysis of the accident, in particular the bridle and weaklink, which never broke. The weaklink was caught on the release mechanism, a standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air. The release clamp has an arm that is thicker at the release point and this held onto the weaklink which consisted of multiple loops of thick line.

This type of release mechanism has been banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay.
...it's fair game, relevant, in play, on topic. When Matt Pruett gets shaken off tow by a thermal it's 'cause they sent him up on a Marzec Link, they haven't told us any different, and it quacks like a fuckin' duck.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Some expansion on the above...

I participated in the 1991/08/02-03 Currituck stop of the Dragonfly tug promo tour. Everybody who was or would become anybody was on that train.

Wallaby came into existence right about then - my best guess is shortly afterwards.

Then probably within a year or two there was a factionalization and people split off and established Quest.

My perception is that Quest became/is the more prominent, active, relevant, influential entity with a higher concentration of major players (Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey for example). Chad Elchin's Highland Aerosports was launched from there. (Also where Chad crashed and burned on 2003/04/11.) And they've crashed a lot more people...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17092
Crash at Questair
Alfie Norks - 2010/06/03 12:24:40 UTC
Brazil

Speedy recovery to the pilot in question.
It could have been worse. It could have happened at...the other place (but nothing happens there. Image) Image Good luck if it does. No 911 calls allowed. My friend was lucky, the nurse on hand convinced the owner not to move him, this after he snatched and threw her phone away. Image She was trying to dial 911. My friend suffered lower back injury.
...that we've heard about anyway.

And we have this:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672
Terry Spencer
Marc Fink - 2005/05/19 13:10:28 UTC

Davis has a well-established history of posting reports which cast doubts on other pilots capabilities and judgements. Much of this I believe is due to a driving inner need to bask in his own "legend in his own mind" limelight. Davis also feels a compelling need to patronize whichever flight park he happens to be living with at the time, and thus tends to play groupie to whomever allows him to pitch his tent/traveling circus. Readers may recall Davis's glowing comments of Malcom and Wallaby while he sojourned there--but Davis has a less than glowing opinion of them now.
... obvious and...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.
...well documented dynamic.

http://ozreport.com/9.132
Blue Sky
Davis Straub - 2005/06/21
Blue Sky, Manquin, Virginia

All quiet on the country front

Steve Wendt here at Blue Sky is the 2005 USHGA instructor of the year with his Wills Wing Condor and scooter towing system to teach proper foot launching and landing techniques (over and over again). Next week he'll be up in the hills far to the west for three days during the middle of the week to start his ten week stretch of teaching 13 and 14 year old campers to hang glide. He's looking forward to losing 30 pounds put on during the winter running down the hill with his young charges.

He's got an invite to go to Guatemala next winter to teach instructors associated with the Guatemalan hang gliding association how to teach hang gliding using his methods. I'm trying to convince him to go down to Quest Air for at least a couple of weeks in the winter to hold launch and landing clinics using his scooter towing techniques. This is an area where flight parks could use more help.

There was an aerotow accident here a few weeks ago, that hurt an experienced female pilot. I hope to publish the facts about that accident as soon as I have the accident report (which was written up by Steve and immediately sent to the USHGA).
Yep. Nothing like getting all the FACTS about a horrendous ACCIDENT from such an expert and totally disinterested witness.
Steve has provided me with all the details...
And you know that how? 'Cause you're living for free on the grounds of his operation?
...and there is a lot that can be learned from the eight second accident...
Of course there is. When in the history of hang gliding has there ever NOT been an ACCIDENT that a tremendous amount that can be learned? Everything in this one was totally unprecedented and unpredictable. Good thing you got there to make all the facts available before another dozen or so of us muppets repeated the relevant mistakes.
...and I'm looking to spread those lessons fare and wide.
And who better to spread lessons fare and wide than Davis Dead-On Straub.
Steve is not shy in the least talking about it.
Why should he be? In all the facts related to this one he's obviously totally blameless. He runs an extremely tight ship and there was absolutely NOTHING he could've done the slightest bit better - training, equipment, procedures, staffing - to have prevented or lessened the consequences of this one. He didn't have a crystal ball ferchrisake!

She:

- hooked up her hot glider in violent thermal conditions with no keel attachment without having taken the short clinic Blue Sky runs the third Saturday of every month to teach people how to fly safely with the bar stuffed and their knees pulled up to their chests as far as possible.

- didn't use a weak link. And there was no weak link at the tug end 'cause Tex was assuming she was using a weak link. And when you have weak links at BOTH ends of the line the maximum possible tow pressure is doubled. So there was nothing to break before she could get into too much trouble.

- made absolutely no effort to access her easily reachable Industry Standard bent pin barrel release during any of these three violent thermal induced oscilations.

- only remembered how to start applying her superb flying skills to the situation AFTER Tex made a good decision in the interest of her safety at the worst possible time. Before then she was cross controlling to induce those pilot induced oscilations.

Gimme a fuckin' break.
He wants to help instruct everyone.
The way he did Holly. We should be so lucky. So then how come he doesn't produce a video explaining and illustrating proper pro toad flying technique and how to properly execute the easy reach to one's easily reachable bent pin barrel release...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link
Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
...when one is oscillating all over the fuckin' sky?
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I little while ago I "finished" and submitted a major overhaul of my latest dissection of Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's bullshit report on the 2005/05/29 Holly Korzilius pro toad crash above at:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post10968.html#p10968

Along the lines of what I said near the end of that post it's such a total load o' misrepresentations, contradictions, selective memories, lies that as many times as one goes through it and chops it to pieces one always upon review realizes twenty more major issues one's totally missed.

As far as I can tell there's no other document from the sport that holds a candle to it...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo
Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

ND's onto it.

No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation... they want to know "NOW DAMNIT!" and there's always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.

And it's always the same.
The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.

We have a system in place.
It works.
Let it work.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).

Please take a deep breath. And wait.
Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)

The sky is not falling.
This was for all intents and purposes a fatal. The impact was just a little shy of killing her - probably would have in August with a harder baked launch strip surface - and it was sufficiently traumatic to have totally wiped her short term memory.

The reason accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time (and by long, I mean they can take years (yes, years, I'm not kidding)) is so that...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07 23:47:58 UTC

A few days ago I promised that I would write a more complete accident report regarding the tragic hang gliding accident we recently had at Quest Air resulting in the death of our good friend, Zach Marzec. I do want to warn you in advance that there will be no great revelations from what you already know.
...flight park operators, instructors, ratings officials can figure out:
- what they can't get away with not reporting
- how to report what they have to while painting:
-- themselves as knights in shining armor
-- their victims as inherently and totally incompetent morons who:
--- successfully resisted all their extraordinary efforts to train them as competent pilots
--- never really had any business taking up flying in the first place anyway
-- conditions as monstrous and unpredictable as anything that's ever occurred anywhere on the planet

Steve's been up there in his little ivory tower with his scooter tow system and the longest, widest, flattest, softest Happy Acres putting green the sport has ever seen running his scooter tow in mornings and evenings and pretending to prepare pilots for real world launch, flying, landing conditions; never engaging in any real world disaster discussions; racking up a huge safety track record (much as one would rack up a stellar mountaineering safety record if one confined one's efforts to Delaware).

So all the sudden outta nowhere he gets this perfect storm event with HORRENDOUS consequences. His:
- product
- tug and driver
- cheap shit equipment
- negligence in letting her go off unsupervised and pro toad

Totaled glider, devastating injuries, emergency response, sirens, flashing lights... Then silence.

And in the following hours he knows that his life's work - instructor career, flight park and infrastructure, reputation - is one smart lawyer away from permanent irreversible vaporization.

So right after the smoke has cleared a bit he sits down at his typewriter and attempts - with totally PATHETIC results - to sound like an intelligent, well educated, competent, responsible, aviation professional. And to paint his victim as someone who'd abruptly morphed from the pilot he painstakingly qualified into some moron too fucking clueless to be allowed to simultaneously walk and chew gum.

Compare/Contrast with a Pat Denevan who totally murders his Hang One student, gets all the witnesses silenced, never utters a public word on the issue, survives a fairly moderate flak storm, emerges like nothing ever happened.

Pretty much the same as Steve but we've got this wonderful public record to illustrate exactly what we're dealing with. And we've got Kite Strings and Yours Truly to help keep it from being totally forgotten.

P.S...

I have quite a few posts on Kite Strings majorly dealing with this report 'cause it never ceases to outrage me and I'm always realizing massive outrageous crap I've totally missed before. And there's gonna be a fair bit of redundancy with lotsa newer dissections. So I think I'll treat:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post10968.html#p10968

as a wiki, edit it appropriately if/as any new stuff occurs to me, note and announce revisions.

Also... In lotsa previous treatments I've fixed his original literacy issues to make things easier on the reader. But I've gone back and turned all the corrected excerpts back into the original crap from the photocopy - 'cause the levels of care and competence with which it was written are extremely relevant.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
Davis Straub - 2005/06/23 02:00 UTC

On Memorial day weekend, a pilot made a few mistakes which ended up hurting her.

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/hollyaccidentreport.jpg
Image

A few weeks ago there was a bad accident here at Blue Sky involving an experienced (three years) aerotow pilot who made a number of mistakes. You can read about her accident in the accident report above, which Steve Wendt, the owner of Blue Sky immediately wrote up and sent to Joe Gregor and Jayne DePanfilis, at the USHGA.

I spoke at length with Steve about this accident and he was quite open and willing to talk about it and about the lessons that can be learned.

First, the pilot couldn't find the portion of her V-bridle that attached to her keel and decided to tow off her shoulders, something that she had no experience with.

Second, she flew her more advanced glider when Steve felt that she would have normally flown her less advanced glider after not flying a lot lately and in the middle of the day.

Third, she didn't have a weaklink on the shoulder portion of her bridle, only on the portion that went to the keel, so she flew with didn't have a weaklink.

Fourth, she pulled in hard right away as she came off the cart. With no experience towing off her shoulders she didn't have a feel for the bar pressures that she would experience without the V-bridle.

Fifth, with her arms straight back she had much less control over the glider.

Sixth, she began to PIO immediately because she was pulled in so hard.

Seventh, she didn't release immediately once she started to PIO trying to "save the tow," even though she was out of control, because she had experience successfully towing and didn't understand how much trouble she was in, being out of control so low and so soon off the cart.

Eighth, without a weaklink the tug pilot had to release her, but too late when she was already in a too dangerous condition, but when she was endangering the tug pilot. The pilot was too low and too out of whack to recover in time.
On Memorial day weekend, a pilot made a few mistakes which ended up hurting her.
Nobody else had made any mistakes. Not her instructor, the flight park operator, the tug driver, her launch crew, the other fully certified and rated pilots with whom she consulted, the glider manufacturer, the towing equipment manufacturers... Just the pilot. Everybody else had performed flawlessly between sunrise and the EMTs arriving on the scene.
A few weeks ago there was a bad accident here at Blue Sky...
Here at Blue Sky. Where you're parking your mobile home rent free for a while. In exchange for just a bit of promotional/endorsement publicizing and history whitewashing.
...involving an experienced (three years) aerotow pilot who made a number of mistakes.
Mostly trusting you sleazy, corrupt, incompetent motherfuckers for her pilot training and with her life.
You can read about her accident in the accident report above, which Steve Wendt, the owner of Blue Sky immediately wrote up and sent to Joe Gregor and Jayne DePanfilis, at the USHGA.
- Yeah? How come we couldn't read it when he wrote it up and sent it to Joe Gregor and Jayne DePanfilis, at the USHGA immediately? Didn't think any of us muppets would be the least bit interested during the succeeding month long period?

- Oh wow! A report from Steve Wendt, instructor of the crash victim and owner of the flight park at which the crash occurred. Who better and more qualified to give us a totally accurate, fully detailed, completely unbiased report on the crash and all relevant factors and issues. We certainly wouldn't want any of the other pilots present to write reports and present their viewpoints because those would likely be biased out of fear of retaliation.
I spoke at length with Steve about this accident and he was quite open and willing to talk about it and about the lessons that can be learned.
- Wow! After a month of total silence, fuckin' zilch released to the public, Steve is astonishingly quite open and willing to talk about it and about the lessons that can be learned WITH YOU. Must have something to do with your remarkable personality.

- Lessons learned BY WHOM? I don't see SHIT in anything any of you motherfuckers have published that should be of the slightest value to any properly rated Hang Two aerotow pilot. Ditto for the crap that's gonna be published in the 2006/09 magazine article. Good thing, too. 'Cause if there were that would've been fifteen months during which untold thousands of AT launches would've been executed without benefit of all these invaluable lessons to be learned from this one.

- And here I was thinking that when students paid for Rating and Special Skill training and certification they were getting the benefit of all important relevant information. Should we be slipping our instructors a few hundred extra bucks to get the really good stuff that's gonna keep us from ending up like Holly?
First, the pilot couldn't find the portion of her V-bridle that attached to her keel and decided to tow off her shoulders, something that she had no experience with.
She was flying with a secondary bridle and release - that she used as her primary bridle and release. That means that there was a very concrete probability of her needing to fly pro toad in a moderate emergency situation. What was the point in her having a secondary system if she hadn't had benefit of so much as a discussion about what to expect and how she'd need to perform? We all fly with parachutes that virtually no one ever uses. But everybody's at least read the owner's manual so he knows what he's supposed to do with and what to expect for the descent and "landing".
Second, she flew her more advanced glider when Steve felt that she would have normally flown her less advanced glider after not flying a lot lately and in the middle of the day.
You mean the more advanced glider that Steve:
- probably sold her
- watched her:
-- arrive with on the top of the car
-- set up
-- carry to launch
-- plop on the cart
-- hook up pro toad in the middle of the day
while saying NOTHING about his FEELINGS that she would have normally flown her less advanced glider after not flying a lot lately and in the middle of the day? (Maybe a guy like Steve has to be a bit careful about openly expressing his feelings on various issues.)

What was her more advanced glider? A Moyes Litesport?

http://www.moyes.com.au/products/hang-gliders/litesport/description
Moyes Delta Gliders - Description
Litesport

The Moyes Litesport is arguably the best king posted hang glider on the market. Designed by Gerolf Heinrichs, the Litesport has evolved out of the knowledge and experience base of the Litespeed and performs similarly to a non-king posted glider, while handling like an intermediate glider.

Characteristics overview

- suitable for competitive or recreational flying.

- superior handling, more responsive, easy to turn, easier to straighten

- sophisticated, but easy to operate VG system with one luff line and single dive stick for reduced drag and weight

- easy to handle with a comparable glide with most non-king posted gliders

- diverse range afforded by VG and G-string systems.
-- VG off = loose, flexible wing with raised tailing edge for launches, landing and thermalling
-- VG applied = tight, flat sail for high speed glides.

- low wing tip inertia due to low weight

- Automatic compensation: the luff line is linked to the top side wire, the top side wire travels up the kingpost when the VG is loose which causes the luff line to be automatically compensated. The certification testing showed excellent pitch stability readings with this innovative system.

- Side wires: the top side wire runs through a slider in the kingpost which keeps the side wires tensioned at all VG settings, this enables the glider to have taut instead of loose side wires on take off and a powerful VG
Sounds like a real deathtrap (from the manufacturer of the Dragonfly tug). Can't imagine any halfway sane person ever aerotowing one in the middle of the day. First hour after sunrise, last hour before sunset maybe. But I guess Steve wasn't really aware of the time of day, what with...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
...all the exceptional knowledge he's always accruing - so's he's always ready to be quite open and willing to talk about Blue Sky near fatal crashes and the lessons that can be learned with the folk who've been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who such as yourself.
Third, she didn't have a weaklink on the shoulder portion of her bridle, only on the portion that went to the keel, so she flew with didn't have a weaklink.
- Pick one. With? Or didn't have?
- Yeah? Like she wouldn't have had anyway while dealing with a primary bridle wrap?
-- So what was:
-- Tex's excuse for not having a weak link on his end?
-- Steve's excuse for not ensuring his tugs used weak links on their ends?
Fourth, she pulled in hard right away as she came off the cart.
- So how come she didn't fly into the ground hard right away as she came off the cart?

- You mean like this:

06-03114
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/9655895292_f4f808fb0e_o.png
Image

super cool tandem aerotow instructor dude from the hang gliding school Steve used to manage? How very odd that Steve didn't include this important information to further illustrate what an incompetent dork Holly was in his masterfully written and comprehensive accident report of 2005/05/29.
With no experience towing off her shoulders she didn't have a feel for the bar pressures that she would experience without the V-bridle.
You mean the bar pressures she needed to deal with upon pulling in hard right away as she came off the cart to keep from rocketing up over the tug...

104-081858
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/937/40764724825_d219c2cd71_o.png
Image
Image
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/824/40764722175_2688204c8c_o.png
115-082906

Right?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22233
Looking for pro-tow release
Zack C - 2011/06/16 03:14:35 UTC

I've never aerotowed pilot-only, but it is my understanding that this configuration pulls the pilot forward significantly, limiting the amount he can pull in further.
Davis Straub - 2011/06/16 05:11:44 UTC

Incorrect understanding.
Lying goddam piece o' shit. Ditto for you, Steve.
Fifth, with her arms straight back she had much less control over the glider.
- See above.

- How 'bout with her arms straight back and her knees balled up as close as she could get them to her chest? (And note that Matt's flying behind a...

119-083237
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/942/40764720725_f8667740e7_o.png
Image

...Dragonfly tug which is a lot heavier and a lot more expensive but CAN slow down a lot when it needs to in order to help out the glider.
Sixth, she began to PIO immediately because she was pulled in so hard.
- Really? How was she managing to OVERcontrol when, with her arms straight back, she had much less control over the glider? Sounds to me like if she'd pulled in harder and had her arms straighter back things would've been damped out and she'd have been in much better shape.

- So:

- When do we get to hear how the fuck the deadly midday conditions had a bearing on shit relevant to this one? (Better make it quick - you've only got two more points to cover.)

- Tell me how things would've been perfectly OK if this could have been done with a short clinic and, if we thought it a possibility, been done under supervised conditions in the evening air. Would she have been pulled in less hard and thus not begun to have PIOed immediately? Or does Steve's "under supervised conditions" mean the fuckin' tug should've been pulling her a lot slower?

- Oh. She began to PIO immediately BECAUSE SHE WAS PULLED IN SO HARD. Not because she was a crappy inexperienced pilot who took it upon herself to fly pro toad without taking the mandatory short clinic Blue Sky runs the third Saturday of every month to teach people how to fly safely with the bar stuffed and their knees pulled up to their chests as far as possible. Sounds like you're saying that it's pretty fuckin' difficult NOT to oscillate pro toad while preventing oneself from rocketing up above a trike tug whose driver doesn't give a flying fuck about what's going on behind him just as long as HIS control isn't being compromised.
Seventh, she didn't release immediately once she started to PIO trying to "save the tow," even though she was out of control, because she had experience successfully towing and didn't understand how much trouble she was in, being out of control so low and so soon off the cart.
- Yeah, you two dickheads can tell us what she was trying to do, what her motivations and perceptions were, how fuckin' clueless she was - despite the fact that...
Holly Korzilius - 2006/09

I have no recollection of the accident itself. My hang gliding instructor saw my 'flight' from a distance. The only thing I remember was making the decision to tow off the shoulders, preparing to get towed aloft by the ultralight, and acknowledging that the wind was crossing slightly from my left and to prepare for my left wing to get lifted (which would put me in an unintentional right-hand turn immediately after I released from the tow dolly).

It was May, and my friend and I spent the day at the local flight park. I did not fly that day. Although conditions were safe to fly in, conditions did not look good for staying up. That evening a party was thrown at the flight park in recognition of my instructor's selection as the USHGA Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year. I did not drink any alcoholic beverages that evening and went to sleep around 11:30. I slept of approximately 7-1/2 hours and awoke at approximately 7 a.m. the day of my accident flight.

I set up my Litesport that morning. I felt that conditions were good for flying early that day. There were scattered clouds, warm temps, and winds blowing between 5 and 10 mph from the SE. Shortly before noon, I decided I wanted to aerotow. While getting ready to fly, I discovered that I had lost one of the lines that make up the aerotow release. The missing line was the primary release line that connects to the keel (as opposed to the secondary release line that runs shoulder-to-shoulder).

I discussed 'towing off the shoulders' with a couple of other pilots, as this was something I thought I could do with the remaining portions of my aerotow release. I did not discuss my intent to tow off the shoulders with either of the hang gliding instructors present prior to launching. Based on the anecdotal comments/observations I got from a couple of other pilots who had experience towing off the shoulders, I decided that I was ready to try this method of towing.

I left the primary release (bicycle brake) attached to my right downtube and never thought through how I would release with the secondary barrel release. It's possible that, when things started to go wrong on tow, I attempted to release by whacking the bicycle brake. It's possible that I panicked when the release 'didn't work'.

Based on the other pilots' reports, my glider ended up perpendicular to the tug's flight path and the Spectra tow line snapped. I ended up doing a low-altitude loop. I was able to correct the attitude of the glider and, if I'd had about 15 more feet of altitude, may well have been able to pull off a safe(r) landing. Unfortunately, the tangent of my flight trajectory was about 10 feet below ground level. I impacted headfirst. My Litesport's flying wires snapped and the glider collapsed on top of me.

Numerous pilots ran to my aid. With his prior military police training, one pilot took charge of the accident scene. He kept people from crowding in. Another one had completed nurse training and was studying for her registered nurse exam. She provided whatever medical assistance she could (making sure I was kept warm, and that I was not moved - fearing a neck injury, etc.). My parachute was taken out and used to shade me from the bright sun. Someone cut the sail on my hang glider to aid in my extraction.

The EMTs arrived about 20 minutes after impact. They cut the shoulder straps of my harness and loaded me into the ambulance. I was taken to the hospital and kept in the ICU for two days. On the third day, I was transported to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. I was kept in this hospital for about 10 days. Two and a half days after undergoing a 15-hour facial reconstructive surgery, I was released.
I have no recollection of the accident itself.
...her short term memory was one hundred percent wiped while her face was getting shattered by the impact. And here I was thinking that a dickhead such as yourself...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in
Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.
...would be so much more sympathetic.

- And here's your stupid dope-on-a-rope ass:

Image
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg
Image

a bit under five months prior not releasing immediately with your total crap Bobby Bailey designed releases once your crap launch cart wheels started to oscillate. Trying to "save the tow," even though you were out of control, because you had experienced successfully towing and didn't understand how much trouble you were in, being out of control so low and so soon on the cart. Go figure. (Doesn't look like your Standard Aerotow Weak Link is doing much to keep you from getting into too much trouble either.)

- What makes you two stupid, pompous, Monday-morning-quarterbacking motherfuckers so goddam sure that the qualified and certified pilot on the back end in the actual circumstances, the one who performed flawlessly (and apparently suddenly perfectly understanding the danger of the revised shituation (that started as a typo - but it's a really excellent new word I just accidentally invented)) immediately after the tug pilot made a good decision in the interest of her safety,

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=587
Holly's Accident
Scott Wilkinson - 2005/05/30 03:16:49 UTC

As Ralph mentioned, I didn't see Holly's accident, but Steve Wendt saw it all (as did several others). For now, all I'm comfortable saying is that Holly opted to aerotow on her Moyes Litesport. From what Steve told me, she experienced oscillations shortly after takeoff which quickly became severe. At an altitude somewhere between 50 and 100 feet (We don't know for sure) there was a lockout situation with the glider at a near 90-degree angle. When a line broke (I don't know which one), Holly's glider recoiled backwards, almost fully inverted, then partially recovered in a dive toward the ground.
Nobody's EVER contradicted, disowned, taken the least issue with that assessment of the flight situation. One more swing and she'd have probably HAD the ten to twenty feet she needed to come out smelling like a rose.

Hey Scott... Later in the day after the crash Steve sent off his really thorough accident report to the proper u$hPa operatives stating unambiguously that:
Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly and completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle upon when the tug pilot hit the release...
He's confirmed that there was no weak link at the tug end and says nothing about anything breaking. How could he POSSIBLY have been unaware of anything having broken at that point in the day? And if he were then just how competent could he be at anything else relating to his chosen profession? Hell, I'd submit that nobody with a literacy level that pathetic has no business participating in an aviation sport above the level of flying a seventy pound hang glider with no fuel on board well out of range of defenseless kids, dogs, and powerlines. Any thoughts? (Julliard product?)

- Here's what "The Pilot" writes concerning this:

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http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/865/26320837657_a2ea7a8803_o.jpg
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minor mishap at the 2018 Quest Air Green Swamp Klassic with all your bogus "Risk Mitigation" elements in play:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55583
Getting caught in the cart by your wheel
Davis Straub - 2018/03/28 11:54:07 UTC
The glider continued to turn left and I considered my release but felt that with the glider banked as it was, removing my hand from the base tube would accelerate the turn, possibly spinning the glider.
So how come it's only the partially or totally vegged and dead pilots who never understood the danger they were in and made no effort to release while all the ones who've come through with their brains fairly well intact all understood that effecting the easy reach to an Industry Standard release would have been multiples as catastrophic as having continued to at least partially functioned as pilots? Or can you cite an example or two of a successful actuation of an easily reachable release WHILE - rather than, as Quest advises, BEFORE - there was a problem. (And maybe while you're at it you can cite a few examples of pilots who've released before there was a problem. ("Yeah, officer, I just slammed on the breaks because I thought there might have been some kind of problem I might have encountered if I'd waited any longer.")
Eighth, without a weaklink the tug pilot had to release her, but too late when she was already in a too dangerous condition, but when she was endangering the tug pilot. The pilot was too low and too out of whack to recover in time.
- Catch that, people of varying ages? Without a weak link, the tug pilot had to release her. (Also Holly was without a weak link. But we know it was because of an oversight in her case.)

- Yes, without a weak link to sense that she was getting into too much trouble (pilot present, but also not sensing that she was getting into too much trouble) the tug pilot FINALLY had to release her - at a point at which she had zero chance to recover doing everything flawlessly and total certainty of sustaining glider demolishing and life threatening and altering impact. Tug pilots just never seem to be able to sense when their passengers are getting into too much trouble as effectively as precision fishing line can. (Pity he wasn't using any on his end either.)

- Funny we heard absolutely NOTHING about the tug pilot being endangered in the first draft of this fairy tale, no amendment or revision until now, a few weeks later. And here we were all thinking that he made a good decision in the interest of HER, not HIS, safety - at the worst possible time, with the glider climbing in a near stall situation.

- So how come we never heard anything from any of the eyewitnesses about HOW the tug was being endangered? I've never seen a tug being endangered by any shit other than an engine failure - 'specially not by a glider oscillating behind it.

- Here's a glider going more sideways than anything ever seen before in the entire world history of hang glider aerotowing:

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http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/900/26320843187_42024d4ef3_o.jpg
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Obvious Tad-O-Link that's not sensing when the glider's getting into too much trouble, its keel's already broken before the pictures start, the cute little chick novice tug driver is off the ground and totally unaware of the slightest problem behind her. So please explain to me how Tex could have been scraping the edge of the envelop - and why he's never come forward to provide his own perspective on ANYTHING relating to this incident. Finding it rather odd that Steve reported on it and Tex was totally silent. And I assure you it's not 'cause Tex's literacy competence was well south of his employer's.

For the time being note all the inconsistencies; contradictions; conspicuously absent descriptions, explanations, details; obvious lies and the fact that NOBODY ANYWHERE is taking the slightest issue with anything. Hard to tell whether these two motherfuckers are too stupid to fabricate any halfway consistent and plausible scenarios or smart enough to have figured out that they can freely spew whatever they feel like pulling outta their asses on any whims and it won't make the slightest difference to the dickheads who constitute the mainstream of this sport.
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by <BS> »

Shituation.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

2005/05/29 Blue Sky shituation discussion continued...
Holly Korzilius - 2006/09

have no recollection of the accident itself. My hang gliding instructor saw my 'flight' from a distance. The only thing I remember was making the decision to tow off the shoulders, preparing to get towed aloft by the ultralight, and acknowledging that the wind was crossing slightly from my left and to prepare for my left wing to get lifted (which would put me in an unintentional right-hand turn immediately after I released from the tow dolly).

It was May, and my friend and I spent the day at the local flight park. I did not fly that day. Although conditions were safe to fly in, conditions did not look good for staying up. That evening a party was thrown at the flight park in recognition of my instructor's selection as the USHGA Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year. I did not drink any alcoholic beverages that evening and went to sleep around 11:30. I slept of approximately 7-1/2 hours and awoke at approximately 7 a.m. the day of my accident flight.

I set up my Litesport that morning. I felt that conditions were good for flying early that day. There were scattered clouds, warm temps, and winds blowing between 5 and 10 mph from the SE. Shortly before noon, I decided I wanted to aerotow. While getting ready to fly, I discovered that I had lost one of the lines that make up the aerotow release. The missing line was the primary release line that connects to the keel (as opposed to the secondary release line that runs shoulder-to-shoulder).

I discussed 'towing off the shoulders' with a couple of other pilots, as this was something I thought I could do with the remaining portions of my aerotow release. I did not discuss my intent to tow off the shoulders with either of the hang gliding instructors present prior to launching. Based on the anecdotal comments/observations I got from a couple of other pilots who had experience towing off the shoulders, I decided that I was ready to try this method of towing.

I left the primary release (bicycle brake) attached to my right downtube and never thought through how I would release with the secondary barrel release. It's possible that, when things started to go wrong on tow, I attempted to release by whacking the bicycle brake. It's possible that I panicked when the release 'didn't work'.

Based on the other pilots' reports, my glider ended up perpendicular to the tug's flight path and the Spectra tow line snapped. I ended up doing a low-altitude loop. I was able to correct the attitude of the glider and, if I'd had about 15 more feet of altitude, may well have been able to pull off a safe(r) landing. Unfortunately, the tangent of my flight trajectory was about 10 feet below ground level. I impacted headfirst. My Litesport's flying wires snapped and the glider collapsed on top of me.

Numerous pilots ran to my aid. With his prior military police training, one pilot took charge of the accident scene. He kept people from crowding in. Another one had completed nurse training and was studying for her registered nurse exam. She provided whatever medical assistance she could (making sure I was kept warm, and that I was not moved - fearing a neck injury, etc.). My parachute was taken out and used to shade me from the bright sun. Someone cut the sail on my hang glider to aid in my extraction.

The EMTs arrived about 20 minutes after impact. They cut the shoulder straps of my harness and loaded me into the ambulance. I was taken to the hospital and kept in the ICU for two days. On the third day, I was transported to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. I was kept in this hospital for about 10 days. Two and a half days after undergoing a 15-hour facial reconstructive surgery, I was released.
Holly Korzilius - 2006/09

I have no recollection of the accident itself.
Yeah? So what's your take on:

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
Davis Straub - 2005/06/23 02:00 UTC

Seventh, she didn't release immediately once she started to PIO trying to "save the tow," even though she was out of control, because she had experience successfully towing and didn't understand how much trouble she was in, being out of control so low and so soon off the cart.
...and the fact that neither your Sainted Instructor nor your unidentified Blue Sky Ace Tug Pilot uttered a single syllable's worth of condemnation for that totally fictional buck-passing bullshit? And along those lines...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1176
aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates
Richard Bryant - 2011/02/12 16:41:43 UTC
New Egypt, New Jersey

He has his 'facts 'completely wrong about what happened to Holly Korzilius (I talked to her and her version is nothing like what Tad states).
My hang gliding instructor...
You're not naming the greatest hang gliding instructor in the recorded history of the sport? One so exceptionally knowledgeable that, hell, he signed Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's instructor rating?
...saw my 'flight' from a distance.
Were there any Blue Sky staffers around who saw your 'flight' from...

100-081638
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/884/41655072421_893a855403_o.png
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...the launch point?
The only thing I remember was making the decision to tow off the shoulders...
Despite the fact with about 75 Blue Sky aerotows you had never bothered to avail yourself of one of the short pro toad clinics Blue Sky runs under supervised conditions in the evening air, if they think it a possibility, which would've bulletproofed you against anything Mother Nature could've thrown at you?

Or maybe they just never thought it a possibility. Maybe you were just so fundamentally clueless and inept that two point was the best you'd ever be able to do and you'd never be permitted to fly in an AT based comps because you wouldn't and couldn't be qualified to fly a Quest/Davis appropriate bridle. In that case... Any thoughts on why Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt never made you aware of the fact that you were just so fundamentally clueless and inept that a pro toad bridle would be something perpetually above your pay grade and that you were never to even consider going up that way?

(I'm guessing not 'cause the motherfucker watched you hook up and launch with zero concern and only started fabricating his "poor decisions" bullshit when attempting to cover his sleazy ass to the maximum extent possible.)
...preparing to get towed aloft by the ultralight...
What flavor of ultralight, who was driving it, what weak link was he using up front?

- Was the ultralight as suitable (read: SAFE) for towing hang gliders as the Dragonfly...

Image

...Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt advertises for his operation today - a bit shy of thirteen years later?

What kind of power...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart
Jim Rooney - 2007/09/01 02:39:53 UTC

Which brings us to the reason to have a 914 in the first place... you need one.
Something made you get a 914 instead of a 582. 914s are horribly expensive to own and maintain. If you own one, you need it... it's a safety thing.
...and slow speed capability did it have?

- Steve, Davis, everyone and his dog openly state that there was no pretense of a front end weak link.

- That was a blatant and wanton violation of any and every aerotow regulation or SOP you wanna name.

- You're supposed to fully understand all that shit in order to get an AT signoff.

- When you see that kind of negligence, incompetence, stupidity being exercised at an AT operation you've gotta be a total moron not to assume the worst about everything else they're doing and walk away while you still can.
...and acknowledging that the wind was crossing slightly from my left...
Acknowledging to whom? We know it wasn't either of the Blue Sky staffers - one was at the upwind of the towline about to pull you to your near death and the other was at the upwind/facilities end of the runway about to watch the disaster unfold.

So from this we know that Steve was using non staff volunteers to act as launch assistants/monitors. And now I wonder how carts were...

095-080544
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...being retrieved.
...and to prepare for my left wing to get lifted (which would put me in an unintentional right-hand turn immediately after I released from the tow dolly).
- Bullshit.
-- The relative wind that gets generated as you're accelerated to speed totally vaporizes any notable effects of a light slight cross like that.
-- You gotta be prepared for having your glider kicked around unpredictably as you launch in ANY conditions worth flying in.

- So Steve's launch volunteers made sure you were tuned into this chickenshit issue but were oblivious to the issue of you being minus the appropriate weak link which was supposed to have been such a big fucking deal in this incident. (Funny that was never mentioned in any points about poor decision making.)

- Pretty good bet that she's been coached on how to write this up without bringing any of the many massive Blue Sky negligence issues to the attention of the casual reader.
It was May, and my friend...
Scott Wilkinson.
...and I spent the day at the local flight park. I did not fly that day. Although conditions were safe to fly in, conditions did not look good for staying up.
Wow. What a totally moronic decision - to pass up a nice safe sled day for the deadly soaring stuff that almost turned you upside down as you came off the cart. Not to mention only having brought your Litesport along for the weekend.
That evening a party was thrown at the flight park in recognition of my instructor's selection as the USHGA Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year.
A day before you'd leave Blue Sky in an ambulance with a shattered face and four months and three days before another one of Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's Hang Three products would run off the cliff at Whitwell without his glider. Does u$hPa know how to pick these guys or WHAT! (Pity a non member can no longer access the list of u$hPa's award recipients at the website. Can't begin to imagine any reason they'd want access to something like that restricted to the slightest degree. Any thoughts? Holly? Scott? Bill?)
I did not drink any alcoholic beverages that evening and went to sleep around 11:30. I slept of approximately 7-1/2 hours and awoke at approximately 7 a.m. the day of my accident flight.
That would've been a really excellent time to fly. The air is really smooth and the lines are really short. (Funny that the u$hPa 2004 Instructor of the Year Award recipient didn't think to have you complete one of those short pro toad clinics in that window to expand your proficiency range. Or was he too hung over from celebrating his new official status as a really great guy?
I set up my Litesport that morning.
How 'bout your Sonic? You didn't set it up 'cause you didn't have it with you? I'da thunk you'd have been scared shitless to fly that Litesport after that incredibly long lay-off you had but aren't saying anything about.
I felt that conditions were good for flying early that day. There were scattered clouds, warm temps, and winds blowing between 5 and 10 mph from the SE. Shortly before noon, I decided I wanted to aerotow.
As opposed to WHAT?

- A scooter tow for a pretty goddam advanced Three with over a hundred truck and about 75 aero tows under her belt?

- Or a truck tow in which you have to try really hard to kill yourself but - minus a miles long runway - is a pretty crappy substitute for getting up and finding and hooking a sustainable starter thermal?

How 'bout Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt? He was thinking it was an incredibly crappy idea for you to AT launch your Litesport - even two point. So why do you think he didn't advise a truck to do a shakedown flight before you got on a cart?
While getting ready to fly, I discovered that I had lost one of the lines that make up the aerotow release. The missing line was the primary release line that connects to the keel (as opposed to the secondary release line that runs shoulder-to-shoulder).

I discussed 'towing off the shoulders' with a couple of other pilots...
You mean a couple of other pilots Steve had functioning as volunteer launch crew staffers? Some reason you're not naming them?
...as this was something I thought I could do with the remaining portions of my aerotow release.
Yeah, and there's really never been any consensus regarding the relative safety of two versus one point. So what have you possibly got to lose? For most of the critical issues in this sport you'll be fine just flipping a coin.
I did not discuss my intent to tow off the shoulders with either of the hang gliding instructors present prior to launching.
Just Steve's designated launch crewmen.
Based on the anecdotal comments/observations I got from a couple of other pilots who had experience towing off the shoulders, I decided that I was ready to try this method of towing.
Minus that clinic that nobody's ever actually conducted anywhere before. Go figure.
I left the primary release (bicycle brake)...
Yeah. BICYCLE BRAKE. Securely velcroed within easy reach onto your starboard control tube. It's not like hang gliding has had enough time to develop anything purpose designed and built in - the way it's been for all sailplanes since the beginning of time.
...attached to my right downtube...
Toldyaso.
...and never thought through how I would release with the secondary barrel release.
- Oh. So the world's greatest hang gliding instructor, Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt, whose u$hPa Instructor of the Year Award everybody was celebrating the night before, had:
-- trained and certified you for AT
-- sold you your primary and "backup" system components
but had never taught you shit about how to function in any kind of less-than-ideal situation. And ditto for Tex and any other tug driver you might have gotten behind.

Thanks BIGTIME for that one, Holly.

- That's OK...
Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.
Nobody ever does. If they just bothered to look at the cheap piece of bent pin shit and think about things for a second and a half it would be blindingly obvious that it's about as useful as a hook knife in any critical situation.

And even when, at altitude, they get totally fuckin' killed for the purpose of the exercise...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!
Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link
Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I got clobbered and rolled hard right in a split second. I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..
Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.
...IT NEVER MAKES THE SLIGHTEST FUCKING DIFFERENCE.
It's possible that, when things started to go wrong on tow...
Things started going critically wrong DECADES before, Holly. What's about to happen to you will be just the latest totally predictable consequence of this total bullshit that total fucking dickheads like Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt keep perpetrating on the public and totally getting away with.
...I attempted to release by whacking the bicycle brake.
- Ya think? You think you were the first person in the history of hang glider aerotowing to be overcontrolling, violently oscillating, and periodically using your spare hand to try to actuate an easily reachable Industry Standard release. One that in this case wasn't even hooked up to anything while you were feeling the full force of the gone-to-hell tow being transmitted through your shoulder attachments.

(And note that Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt never comes forward to take the slightest issue with this bullshit because it complements so the picture of his victim he's painting for the public.)

- Bullshit.

Do you know what happened right after you came off tow? In Version 1 when Tex made a good decision in the interest of your safety?

Your best bet for coming out smelling like a rose would've been to blow a bite controlled release as you were swinging back from the extremity of an oscillation. You weren't equipped to do that and the asshole you had on the other end wasn't competent enough to handle an actual emergency situation properly. He was from the:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
school of "thought".

You were doing what every other dope on a rope does and the best option, at that point, for walking away - flying the glider as best you could while attempting to make it to a survivable altitude with both hands welded to the control bar while praying that your driver wouldn't make a good decision in the interest of your safety and that the focal point of your safe towing system (whatever the fuck that was in this situation) didn't increase the safety of the towing operation.
It's possible that I panicked when the release 'didn't work'.
- If you'd really wanted to panic you should have tried to pry your bent pin barrel release open under actual emergency situation load.

- Bullshit. People who know how to fly stuff don't panic when the shit's hitting the fan. They do the best they can with what they have to pilot their ways out of their situations as best as possible. That's what you were doing - until Tex killed your thrust and turned your aircraft into a brick.
Based on the other pilots' reports, my glider ended up perpendicular to the tug's flight path...
Which would've been totally impossible. So you should be extremely skeptical of everything else that's come across in the other pilots' reports - from a totally shitrigged operation like this.
...and the Spectra tow line snapped.
- Right. The two thousand pound Spectra towline snapped. Lemme show ya what a bent pin barrel release bent pin looks like after being subjected to a direct load of a bit under 220 pounds direct / 440 pounds towline:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8331326948/
Image

There is NO FUCKING WAY that towline failed before some other cheap piece o' crap in the system got vaporized or mangled. And let's be generous and say ONE thousand pounds / half a ton to allow for wear and degradation. Bull fucking shit. You assholes couldn't have generated a thousand pounds of tension between those two planes if both of you had been working your asses off towards that goal. And what both of you assholes were actually working your asses off to do was MINIMIZE the transmitted tension.

- Version 1 - submitted by Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt IMMEDIATELY after the smoke cleared - was that Tex had simply made a good decision in the interest of your safety. And he's never made the least feeble attempt to explain how he managed to get that wrong and go with any of the more acceptable takes manufactured as u$hPa operatives started fine tuning the more convenient stories.
I ended up doing a low-altitude loop. I was able to correct the attitude of the glider and, if I'd had about 15 more feet of altitude, may well have been able to pull off a safe(r) landing.
Pretty damn good flyin', dude. Really remarkable for someone who obviously should've been flying the Sonic due to her lack of currency.
Unfortunately, the tangent of my flight trajectory was about 10 feet below ground level.
- I hate when that happens.

- In other words... If only that two thousand pound Spectra towline had been able to withstand the insane loading just another three or four seconds...
I impacted headfirst. My Litesport's flying wires snapped and the glider collapsed on top of me.

Numerous pilots ran to my aid.
Pity no numerous pilots had run to your aid a couple minutes earlier. Maybe set you up with some equipment that WASN'T total shit.
With his prior military police training, one pilot took charge of the accident scene.
Since he was too much of a totally useless dickhead to have done anything at the accident scene before it became an accident scene.
He kept people from crowding in.
Hard to imagine how disastrous things could've been if he hadn't taken charge of the accident scene and kept people from crowding in. They'd have probably sucked up all the available oxygen and started feeding on your brain and intestines. I've seen it happen - and it ain't pretty.
Another one had completed nurse training and was studying for her registered nurse exam. She provided whatever medical assistance she could (making sure I was kept warm, and that I was not moved - fearing a neck injury, etc.).
Any of those douchebags ever study aeronautics, engineering - and think about what might be done to prevent stupid shit like that happening in the first place?
My parachute was taken out and used to shade me from the bright sun.
Excellent use for it at this point.
Someone cut the sail on my hang glider to aid in my extraction.
Well... I'm sure Steve got you a replacement glider by way of a partial apology for his less than stellar role in this clusterfuck.
The EMTs arrived about 20 minutes after impact.
What impact? The worst thing that can happen to anyone who comes off a hang or para glider tow can only be an inconvenience.
They cut the shoulder straps of my harness and loaded me into the ambulance. I was taken to the hospital and kept in the ICU for two days. On the third day, I was transported to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. I was kept in this hospital for about 10 days. Two and a half days after undergoing a 15-hour facial reconstructive surgery, I was released.
So other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...

Keep up the great work, Steve. Pity neither you, Tex, your volunteer launch assistants, Blue Sky, Manquin gets so much as an honorable mention in the reporting of this one in the magazine - 'specially given your global reputation as a top notch authority on these issues and after your totally excellent and thorough initial reporting. Go figure.

Got that, people of varying ages? This one's total damage control by u$hPa / Flight Park Mafia operatives. And that was thirteen years ago. They've probably got software that doctors and sanitizes incidents like this nowadays.
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