landing

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial

Mel Torres - 2013/08/12 14:21:57 UTC

Thank you for the well wishes.

Yeah, isn't The Jack Show just super for:
- well wishing crash survivors
- praying for touch and go cases
- taking flights in the honor of the touch and go cases when praying didn't work
- talking about how people died doing what they loved when the buy it immediately

Im felling much better.

How'd the brain scan come out?

Injuries are, badly bruised neck, shoulder, shoulder blade, right elbow, both biceps and left tricept.

Aren't you happy that the impact was distributed between your downtubes, neck, shoulder, shoulder blade, right elbow, biceps, and left triceps instead of all focused on your neck!

But nothing is broken!

Great! I'm sure you'll be back perfecting your spot no-steppers at AJX in no time!

And yes, I've already had conversations with Rob.

Don't you wanna share with us what he's told you in these conversations?



- Did he tell you why he isn't participating in this discussion along with all the people who don't get paid to help you with this issue?

- What did he tell you in these conversations that he failed to tell you BEFORE you almost broke your freakin' neck?

- Was what he told you something he was gonna hold back on until you started paying him again to get you through your Four but decided to throw in as a freebie now 'cause you're such a great guy - on the condition, of course, that you not share it with anyone else?

- Did it have anything to do with...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13359
Today was a bad day!

Rob McKenzie - 2009/08/26 17:26:12 UTC

I like variety. Sometimes AUSSIE and sometimes not. It helps to bring the thought process alive. Routine leads to boredom which leads to reactive thinking which IMO is a poor facsimile of true thinking.

...varying your landings so the routine doesn't become so boring that it leads to reactive thinking and stifles true thinking?

On that last point... Do you think that flying your glider into the ground and almost breaking your neck provided enough variety and disruption of the routine to stimulate some of the true thinking necessary to consistently stop your glider on the traffic cone in the middle of the primary?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29702
Flair timing is crucial

Brad Barkley - 2013/08/12 14:13:13 UTC

It looks like on final you had plenty of time to round out, but you just flew the glider into the ground.

Sounds like we're on the same page on this one, Brad. Maybe Rob just neglected to tell him not to fly the glider into the ground before he signed him off.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial

Erik Boehm - 2013/08/19 09:58:07 UTC

I'm a bit concerned... both by what he's done, and what he's chosen respond to/his responses in this thread.

* the first landing wasn't good, proximity to the cone notwithstanding.
He has not made any comment acknowledging this.

* When he's told it wasn't a flare timing issue, instead of acknowledging it, he seems to dispute it: "I never raised my hands on the downtubes and didn't push out soon enough"
- you don't need to raise your hands, if your glider was trimmed right, you didn't even need to to push out, all you needed to to was stop pulling in and let the glider fly at trim/control your attitude and altitude

* When a hang length issue is brought up, he responds basically by saying the harness fits fine. He has no comment acknowledging that hang length has nothing to do with how the harness fits.

Its possible he has acknowledged these points to himself, without making a post on here - but in the absence of such comments, I'm a bit concerned.

I've seen too many pilots who land poorly and don't acknowledge their faults, so maybe I'm a bit paranoid, I hope thats not where this is heading.

Who cares? It's hard to find videos more entertaining than those recovered from wreckage.

Mel Torres - 2013/08/20 02:29:49 UTC

Erik Boehm, It seems all you do on this site is criticize, Do you even fly a hang glider or do you just troll threads to criticize everything under the sun?

Not even flying a hang glider and trolling threads to criticize everything under the sun is my specialty - but it's far from a saturated field.

You asked why I took my flair back yet you gave this advice on another thread. .

this is your comment...."Why not just land like this":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDvQOFifPlI


The pilot in this video took back his flair...

1. FLARE
2. No he didn't.
3. If he did - so what? Does that mean Eric's input was invalid and unworthy of your attention?

...yet you criticize me for doing the same thing.

You did take your flare back - on the effort that allowed you another try. And your second effort was nothing to write home about either.

Where are the videos of you flying?

Who gives a rat's ass?

post some that i.d. you as "Erik Boehm and just maybe I'll take your comments into consideration.

Yeah, that's a great approach.

Only listen to other stupid air jocks who fly a lot, have great videos all over the web, and never or seldom make mistakes. Get all your advice on:
- landing from Jim Rooney, Ryan Voight, Brian Horgan
- aerotowing from Jim Rooney, Davis Straub, Diev Hart
- unhooked launch prevention from Jim Rooney, Mike Bomstad, Keith Skiles

And consider going over to The Bob Show. He'll give you untold hundreds of:



and



no matter what you do in the air as long as you don't express any thoughts that fail meet with his approval.

2013/08/20 02:51:45 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jonathan Dietch

Asshole. You guys should get along great.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial

Mel Torres - 2013/08/20 12:27:42 UTC

I don't know Erik and in that link i did see any ref that it was him. All I know is, he argues and criticizes everyone and everything under the sun. My observation is based on all his posts. Hang gliding related or not.

Mel Torres - 2013/08/20 12:45:32 UTC

I can take the criticizing, but some reason Erik rubbed the wrong way. Don't know why, he just does.

So that makes it OK to treat him and his efforts to help you with the utmost contempt - to refuse to respond to anything he's saying.

I'd be highly inclined to ban your ass for pulling that kind of shit over here - not that, at this point, you'd have much of a chance of getting activated in the first place.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial

Mel Torres - 2013/08/20 12:27:42 UTC

I don't know Erik and in that link i did see any ref that it was him.

What possible difference could either of those issues make?

Jason Boehm - 2013/08/20 12:37:24 UTC

as opposed to someone that comes on here with an anonymous identifier?

And a signature section attached to the bottom of every post that reads:

Mel Torres
WW Falcon 3 195, (UP Gemini 164 mid to late 88's) (first wing Seagull Sea Hawk 180 79 - mid 80's)

H3
USAF 79-84, Boeing Co. C-17 program 85-current

What's missing? His Social Security number and mother's maiden name?

(Mel... Can you give us some precise dates for the "late 88's"?)

Erik is one of the VERY FEW pilots i know of that has never broken a down tube in over a decade of flying

If hang gliding shifted to wheel landing mode you'd know hundreds - and there'd be a lot more people still around in the sport and your gliders would be cheaper.

HG_Aviator, whoever you are......

Mel Torres - you functionally illiterate twit.

...don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message

He hasn't said shit about the message. He just doesn't like the messenger.

it wasn't a flair...

FLARE

...timing issue, there are numerous problems that need fixing

Why do they need fixing? I'm hoping for a few more good videos.

you can either acknowledge it, and work on them, or pretend Erik is just being mean and hurt yourself again, its your choice

I'm all for him continuing to ignore Erik and only listening to people with decades of experience and hundreds of posted videos.

I've seen pilots blame others for everything before, you can usually recognize them decked out in armor all over and impacting in clouds of dust

1. If Rob McKenzie's gonna accept USHGA Instructor of the Year Awards shouldn't he also accept responsibilities for people he's graduated who fly their fuckin' gliders into the fuckin' ground?

2. So someone who mountain launches and lands decked out with body armor is an asshole but someone who flies with a:
- backup loop
- parachute bridle safety
- pro toad bridle
- three quarter G Rooney Link lockout protector
- Birren Pitch and Lockout Limiter
- bent pin barrel release
- hook knife emergency release
isn't?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial

NMERider - 2013/08/20 20:02:17 UTC

In case anyone is interested here is my analysis of the major issues in this incident.

Not really, Jonathan. I coulda taken a Day One student and put him at a hundred feet on course towards the middle of this LZ and he'd have done a hundred times better than this major asshole.

He wants to land on his feet on traffic cones in the middles of putting greens and treat people who are trying to help him with total contempt - FINE. If he doesn't get it on video and post it somebody else will - and I can use the laughs.

Flare timing was never really the issue...

No shit.

...since the pilot...

Since the WHAT?

...impacted the ground during the course of a 120 degree left turn while overly banked close to the ground.

Who gives a rat's ass? If someone had shot him in the head at a hundred feet he'd have almost certainly had a better landing.

The primary issue is the landing setup and failure to either abort landing on the LZ or to modify the landing to compensate for the improper approach.

I repeat... I coulda done better with or as a Day One student.

In 2008 a pilot was killed at Sylmar...

Jeff Craig - 2008/04/29.

...when he flew face first into a boulder doing essentially the same thing that was done here.

Goddam right. He flew face first into a boulder. Lesson learned... Don't fly face first into a boulder.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13745
Good News vs Sad News

NMERider - 2009/10/01 22:31:04 UTC

We had a Sylmar pilot die from massive head injuries last summer when he got drilled into the ground by sink while he was still prone. His helmet covered head struck a boulder.

And BTW - I cannot rotate my Rotor Kickass harness fully upright but I can pull on plenty of speed by merely keeping both hands on the base tube. Not one up and one down but both hands. If I get drilled by sink at the last second at least the first thing to hit won't likely be my head. In my cocoon harness I can go upright with hands on the DTs and easily get my T2 over 40 mph.

IIRC - Tad has already worn out his welcome on the Oz Report over his AT release mechanism...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/9665623251_612b921d70_o.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

...and so it seems he has come here to preach his gospel of safety according to Tad. The prize of course will either be delivered by the HMS Beagle or can be found on the Gallapagos Islands.

Didn't have a goddam thing to do with whether he was prone or upright coming in. He totally missed the LZ and totally flew into a boulder. You don't worry about these - except to worry about what total fucking asshole signed him off without making sure he could hit a fuckin' LZ.

Wanna talk about the total fucking asshole signed him off without making sure he could hit a fuckin' LZ? Yeah - I didn't think so.

[Steve Davy]

Mel Torres - 2013/08/10

I never raised my hands on the downtubes and didn't push out soon enough

You misjudged your altitude in the final few feet of your landing approach.
I'd offer a simple technique allowing you to eliminate that issue but you're not interested so I won't bother.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial

NMERider - 2013/08/21 16:16:51 UTC

This discussion is like a bad joke.

As is its central figure.

Mel Torres - 2013/08/21 18:09:51 UTC

Jonathan, after numerous reviews of my video.conversations with you, Rob and some of the guys that witnessed my mishsp...

Did you write like that BEFORE your mishsp? If not I'm thinking a brain scan would be a really good idea. Granted, they probably wouldn't find anything but y' never really know for sure.

I have to agree with your observations as to what I did wrong. You can believe I will paying more attention to all aspects of my flights, DBF in particular. I'd like to think you all for all your input.

And I'd like to think you for all the care you put into your posts in this discussion.

Let's move on to happier landings. I'm done with this thread.

Right. There's nothing more anyone could possibly say on these issues that would be worthy of your attention - let alone any response.

Jason Boehm - 2013/08/21 20:48:54 UTC

one thing to notice...from NMEs photo sequence...the entire time you are on down wind you aren't looking where you want to land........hard to judge things when you aren't looking at where you want to be

yes you need to look where you are going as well, and yes those are two different dirrections....but you need to go back and forth between them

Until, of course, you turn onto final. Then get a good lock on your traffic cone and spare no effort to nail it. John Simon can give you a few pointers if you feel you could use some guidance.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial

Brad Barkley - 2013/08/22 02:26:48 UTC

By the way, the word we want to use here is "flare." This is "flair":

http://www.fittingroup.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/office-space-flair.png

Lemme know when you finish getting them trained on that one and I'll see if I can get one or two of them to understand the difference between:
- pressure and tension
- a weak link and a release
- a hang check and a hook-in check

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMDjomY2Mw


Foot landing fixation.



(And, yes, his right hand HAS only just now pulled free of the downtube.)

http://www.kitestrings.org/post2270.html#p2270

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3308
Mike Ivey's windsock twang

[Steve Davy]

Looks like fun. Where do I sign up for some of that action?