instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22428
tow release story

Tigouille - 2011/07/04 09:34:54 UTC
Limoges

As short as I can.
Wrong type of parachute on the tow line twisted it so pilot could not release the wichard.
He decided to break the fuse (the tug's one broke); ended up with the line that he bunched up, but didn't have time to finish.
Landed OK, but the line left behind caught a power line and somehow set fire to a field, with the mayhem you can expect following...
P.S. Wouldn't have happened with a Koch release I guess (second hand story).

Terry Ryan - 2011/07/04 13:32:18 UTC
Toronto

Too short.
Need more details.

Apparently way too long and detailed for your attention span.

Winch towing or aerotowing?

Let's see...

...the tug's one broke...

I'm guessing stationary winch.

Please explain the "fuse" and "the tugs one broke".

Yeah, this stuff has got me stymied too.

Could he have cleared it with a hook knife?

Off course he could have! There's absolutely NOTHING that can't be accomplished with a hook knife. I don't know why people even bother flying with releases, weak links, wheels, helmets, and parachutes.

When and where?

We all need to learn from this.

The people that were capable of learning from something like this all did a hundred years ago. And ninety-nine percent of hang glider pilots haven't got a prayer - so why bother?

Thanks,
TR

Dennis Wood - 2011/07/04 14:00:43 UTC
Suffolk, Virginia

winch or aero? "tug", so probably aero

Do ya think?

fuse = weaklink

"the tugs one broke" usually/sometimes multiple weaklinks each end of rope

Really? I've actually never seen a single weak link on EITHER end of the rope behind a Dragonfly that I didn't put there myself - which is why we get stupid bullshit like:

Towing Aloft 1998/01

I witnessed a tug pilot descend low over trees. His towline hit the trees and caught. His weak link broke but the bridle whipped around the towline and held it fast. The pilot was saved by the fact that the towline broke!

The only place I've ever seen a weak link for a Dragonfly is on the bridle well above the tow ring the way this asshole had it.
And I'd wager that the vast majority of gliders only have a weak link on one end of the bridle. (Very sporting of them.)

could it be cleared with knife? did he have knife and training in its use?

Yeah! More knife training. That way we can keep flying with shitrigged releases and using light weak links on tugs.

If you wanna see really masterful knife work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGUJO5BjnA

067-14615


098-20006

Rule Number 1: Never have a problem below two thousand feet.

when and where? sounds like it was in the Koch sales brochure, the one that is claimed to be 100% absolutely guaranteed completely perfect and impossible to have any malfunctions within 1000 meters of its location .

...so pilot could not release the Wichard.

Wouldn't have happened with a Koch release...

Yeah, definitely, gotta be a Koch. It's a miracle his chest wasn't crushed when he landed.

and as was stated, this is at least a second hand retelling but i do wonder why anyone would use a "drogue" for aero

Tigouille - 2011/07/04 16:01:24 UTC

You got the answers... Sorry we use fuse in French.

That's OK, Tig. In the US we use "pressure" to describe the force being transmitted by the towline. At least your term is accurate.

And, yes, most aerotow operations have two weaklinks.

South of France (Dubourg's place).

The drogue keeps the line (mostly) straight behind the ultralight and certainly helps to locate it if it falls in a field...

Unless the wind is cranking a bit and the field it lands in is five miles away. And I'm not terribly sure I'd like to have a towline slowly descending under a parachute and over an airport.

I don't sell Koch (but I do have one), and I don't really mind if you prefer another, though if you want to release without tension I would avoid the Wichard, which by the way is an excellent French make!

May help explain why you can spell it.

Yeah, it's an excellent make as a spinnaker shackle. As an aerotow release however...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318769461/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/

...maybe not so much. (Try to get a Koch to fail like that, peabrain.)

Was this guy ALSO stupid enough to connect directly without a bridle? 'Cause I'm having a bit of a problem understanding how a parachute could otherwise twist things enough to disable it.

When?

I don't know but here is my story teller:

http://opalov.blogspot.com/

It was told during the after flight beer drinking and I thought that anyway you guys would miss the atmosphere, so just "don't put a big parachute on the line" is the part for safety.

How 'bout the unbelievable and ubiquitous stupidity of having the front end weak link lighter than the gliders? Can we get a comment on that? Do you have any idea just how fast that guy WOULD have been killed if that towline had snagged on something - powerlines, fer instance - if it had been trailing and over his basetube? Do the names Ron Smith and Shane Smith (no genealogical relation) ring any bells?

We have a good one on our woman president who got winched with the line around her finger (in the Charentes), but that will have to wait...

bisleybob - 2011/07/04 21:21:39 UTC
UK

id bet my life on a koch release. and do regularly
i dont sell them but i definatly endorse them.
release under tension release with none, release without looking, release both lines with one tap. and...
they are gold

C'mon, Head Trauma. Aren't you gonna tell us all about how it's impossible to design a release that locks up less than half the time without breaking ribs on three out of four landings?

Oh. Right.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=599
Banned of Brothers

Sam Kellner - 2011/07/17 14:23:48 UTC

Hi Tad,
I see that you are posting on OZforum again.

Thanks Sam, but... Optical illusion.

I'm pretty sure you're basing your assumption on:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14903
New Lookout Release--preliminary test

- My last post there is nearly two and a half years old.

- And even then Davis was sabotaging my posts because they were critical of the garbage one of his slimeball sponsors was inflicting on the mostly deserving public.

- And I note that he has subsequently deleted my photos which he initially just moved to where nobody could find them.

- Check down eight posts below my last surviving one on that thread for a little of Jim Gaar's limitless supply of mental diarrhea - that whole cesspool is still a Tad - and competence - free zone.

- I just had Deltaman pull the thread out of mothballs for the primary purpose of humiliating:
-- Marc Fink (David Luvs Paragliding)
-- Jim Gaar (Blindrodie)
-- JD Guillemette (hefalump)
-- Davis
-- Matt Taber (Lmfp)

Mission accomplished.
For the record, I wouldn't go back on the Oz Report if Davis got down on his knees and...
Just as sec - lemme consider some of the possibilities here...
Nah, probably not even then.
But thanks much for the thought anyway.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4979
Very sad news from Ridgely : Keavy Nenninger

Eight years, three months, twelve days - two Dragonflies, although Chad's went down at Quest.
And with everything they do to try to kill the gliders, nothing towing related so far beyond downtube folding Greenspot failures.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.rvfd400.com/fullstory.php?141538

This was a structural or control system failure - too fast and low for parachute deployment, probably on the first takeoff of that plane for the morning with zero to two witnesses.

It's not "in a field between both runways" (the runways being parallel paved and grass strips) but in the soybean field off the end of Grass 30.

Deafening silence coming out of Highland Aerosports. Can't wait for the NTSB report.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=10932
What happened here?

Jim Rooney - 2009/03/06 19:11:07 UTC
Queenstown

If I didn't work for a flight park with a similarly spotless record (10 years in full time operation), I'd be right there with ya. I'm not a fan of armchair quarterbacking.

But, being that I do. I do feel qualified to comment... and yes, to critique Wallaby's methods.

Yeah, it's "spotless" 'cause you don't count:
- Chad 'cause he was at Quest when HIS Dragonfly fell apart
- gliders broken by Adam that come down under silk after blown aerobatics
- hook-in failures perpetrated by Ridgely trained "instructors" on their passengers that happen in Queenstown
- routine release failures 'cause they always happen at altitude
- weak link failures every fifth flight or so that occasionally result in crashed gliders
- broken arms that happen after the gliders have first gotten to safe altitude.

Look forward to your NEXT comment about Ridgely's "spotless record".

And, if my happiest dreams come true, they'll have already found out that one of the wing strut bolts hadn't quite made it back through the end fitting the evening before.

[Steve Davy]

So let me get this straight. These folks can't figure out the function of a weak link?
Don't understand the difference between back up and secondary.
Think tension (or pressure) is measured in Ft./ Lbs.
Don't know the difference between one half as opposed to twice.
Think that being able to release with both hands on the control bar MIGHT be a good idea.
Using fishing line to tow a hang glider will somehow keep them out of trouble.
Still using curved pin barrel releases when they are known to fail.
Using primary releases that have only been tested to 130 Lbs.
Is this all a real bad dream I'm having? I want to wake up now, please let me wake up now!

[Tad Eareckson]

Sorry, whenever I wake up and get my bearings I just wanna go back to sleep and resume whatever nightmare I was having. As long as I don't thrash too much and fall out of bed nobody gets hurt.

[Tad Eareckson]

The Huntsville Times - 2011/07/27

1986/05/02 - 2011/07/23

Keavy Ruth Nenninger, 25, of Huntsville passed away Saturday.

She was a 2004 graduate of Huntsville High School, where she played soccer. Keavy graduated from St. Louis University Parks College of Engineering and Aviation in 2010 with a degree in aerospace engineering and was on the collegiate flight team, the Flying Billikens. She earned her commercial pilot's license and was employed by Highland Aerosports in Ridgely, Maryland. Keavy's adventurous spirit was infectious and she died doing what she loved most - flying. She was preceded in death by paternal grandfather, Albert William Nenninger of Leopold, Missouri, and maternal grandmother, Nora B. Brunegraff of Pensacola.

Survivors include father, William "Bill" A. Nenninger of Huntsville; mother, Lisa Anne Brunegraff of Huntsville; paternal grandmother, Mrs. Catherine R. Nenninger of Farmington, Missouri; maternal grandfather, Bernard O. Brunegraff of Pensacola; aunts, Ann Nenninger Anderson of Madison, Louise Nenninger Brewer of Farmington, Mary Elna Flores and husband William, Hope Cook and husband Russell of Nashville; uncles, John Nenninger and wife Jutta of Festus, Missouri, and Bernie Brunegraff of Nashville; cousins, Brittian Anderson of Madison, Robert Anderson of Barberton, Ohio, David Brewer of Fort Leavenworth, Missouri, Teresa Brewer of Farmington, Nicholas Brewer of St. Charles, Missouri, Eric Nenninger of Chicago, Katrina and Nora Flores of Pensacola, Sara, Hallie, Aaron and Macey Brunegraff of Nashville, Reuben Barringer of Houston, and Samuel Barringer of Knoxville; and special friend, Erich Hess of Hartford.

Visitation will be from 6 to 8 p.m. Thursday at Laughlin Service Funeral Home with a rosary at 7 p.m. The funeral service will be at 11 a.m. Friday at Holy Spirit Catholic Church with Father Kevin Bazzel officiating. Burial will be in Maple Hill Cemetery.

Memorials may be made to St. Louis University Parks College of Engineering and Aviation, The Flying Billikens Flight Team, Experimental Aircraft Association 190 - Education Programs, CASA of Madison County - Garden, or a charity of your choice.

Sorry, but she was neither doing what she loved nor flying just before impact. She was plummeting down into a soybean field in a broken, poorly engineered and inadequately inspected and maintained remnant of a lightly regulated and known problematic ultralight aircraft.

And if she had stuck to real aviation and towed sailplanes something like this would almost certainly never have happened.

And, from personal experience in similar but milder and/or luckier situations, I can guarantee you that NOBODY loves doing something like this.

What a waste.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/article_f4d66098-b7a6-11e0-818a-001a4bcf6878.html

Pilot who studied at St. Louis University's Parks College killed in Maryland crash

by Denise Hollinshed - 2011/07/27 11:42

Keavy Nenninger in an aircraft, in a photo posted online by Highland Aerosports.



A pilot who graduated from Parks College at St. Louis University died Saturday in a plane crash in Maryland.

Keavy Nenninger, 25, died in the crash of a single-engine plane at the Ridgely, Md., airport, authorities said.

Keavy, a native of Huntsville, Alabama, graduated from Parks College of Engineering, Aviation and Technology last year with a degree in aerospace engineering. She earned her commercial pilot's license and was employed by Highland Aerosports in Ridgely.

Nenninger was piloting a single-engine airplane while towing a glider Saturday morning, according to the Maryland State Police. After releasing the glider, Nenninger banked the plane and it stalled and crashed.

Nenninger was flown to a hospital where she was pronounced dead about an hour after the crash.

Her father, William A. Nenninger of Huntsville, said she was full of spirit.

"She followed her dream," he said by phone. "She wanted to become a pilot. She was herself."

He said Keavy Nenninger's mother was also a pilot.

A cousin, Brittian Anderson, 29, of Madison Ala, said Keavy Nenninger was fun, adventurous and full of life.

"She died doing something she loved," Anderson said. "She loved to fly. She always wanted to fly."

In addition to her father, she is survived by her mother, Lisa Anne Brunegraff of Huntsville; a grandmother, Catherine R. Nenninger of Farmington, Missouri; and a grandfather, Bernard O. Brunegraff of Pensacola.

Visitation and services will be Thursday and Friday at Laughlin Service Funeral Home in Huntsville.

For memorial information, please see her obituary on the funeral home's web site or the site of Highland Aerosports.

So now maybe it's sounding like control system failure.

[Tad Eareckson]

After releasing the glider, Nenninger banked the plane and it stalled and crashed.

- Nah. The plane banked her and it stalled and crashed.

- She had time to dump the glider - which would've been instinctive - which means she probably would've had time to blow the parachute - which wouldn't. I wonder how high she was.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/07/huntsville_native_dies_in_mary.html
Huntsville native dies in Maryland plane crash | AL.com

Victoria Cumbow, The Huntsville Times - 2011/07/28

"She enjoyed it and loved the job very much," Bill Nenninger said.
The crash happened after she had released a glider. She turned around to check on the glider and her plane stalled, he said.
"To a fault, she was always looking out for other people's interest," he said. "She was worrying about another person in the end."

This - INCREDIBLY - is now sounding like almost pure pilot error. Glad I didn't bet the thousand bucks I'd have been happy to when the first trickles of information started leaking out. Given her background this is astonishing.

OK, reboot.

She enjoyed it and loved the job very much.

Too much and it wasn't worth it.

The crash happened after she had released a glider.

- Indicating that a solo student probably on a Ridgely trainer was locking out in dead morning air at probably no more than a hundred feet. Roy Messing - 2009/08/31 - comes immediately to mind.

- Ridgely trainers (Target, I'd guess) have Quest Releases with the brake lever mounted you-know-where - 'cause they really like to challenge their students with equipment they know won't work in emergency situations.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.

- And, as if that wouldn't be challenging enough, the "BACKUP" release is a Bailey.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

- And I've stood right next to Sunny and listened to him tell a "student" to go directly to the Bailey "secondary" - also inaccessible in an emergency - because the Quest "Release" on the Target trainer WOULD NOT WORK.

- So we KNOW that...

-- Once again, the Sacred 130 Pound Greenspot, the focal point of Ridgely's safe towing system, does not blow before the glider starts getting into too much trouble.

-- The student is not qualified to fly solo in even the most benign of conditions.

-- The student is unable to blow tow until the situation has seriously deteriorated and the tug driver has to do his job for him.

-- There's no halfway sane Plan C if the bottom end of the tug bridle wraps at the tow ring.

-- The glider's in enough trouble when and after the tug driver cuts him loose that she watches him instead of flying her plane.

-- She wasn't adequately trained as a pilot - not as a tow pilot but just as a PILOT. She wasn't towing anything when her problems began.

She turned around to check on the glider...

Why? What was she planning on doing to help the glider at this point?

...and her plane stalled...

No, no, no. Sorry. SHE stalled her plane.

To a fault...

Yes.

...she was always looking out for other people's interest.

Not this time. She was rubbernecking.

She was worrying about another person in the end.

That wasn't the time to be worrying about another person.

She was towing an unqualified student on dangerous equipment and there were flagrant dangerous violations of USHGA/FAA regulations and common sense at both ends of the line - just as there had been on every other tow she had pulled at Ridgely.

If she had really wanted do something effective in the way of helping other people she'd have read the regulations, insisted that they be complied with, and resigned from her position and filed a complaint with the FAA when they weren't.

P.S. Funny we haven't heard the name of the glider. If we HAD we'd be able to find out the name of the "instructor".
P.P.S. If my assumptions are right on this, this is the first fairly serious low level lockout I know of in the history of Highland Aerosports.