Releases

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Re: Releases

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Steve Davy
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Re: Releases

Post by Steve Davy »

At 0:27 you will see Reidar Berntsen's vict, sorry, passenger with a bent pin secondary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2-tt84E0o4#t=27
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Re: Releases

Post by <BS> »

Compared to this.
Image
Steve Davy
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Re: Releases

Post by Steve Davy »

Two steps forward, and one step back. Dumbshit had his bent pin primary lock up a few dozen times too many, and thus demoted it to secondary status.

Good thinking, Reidar!
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

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http://www.ocala.com/article/20160219/ARTICLES/160219707?p=1&tc=pg
Hang glider had dreamed of flying solo from a mountain | Ocala.com
Austin L. Miller - 2016/02/19 16:13 EST
Staff writer
"Ocola StarBanner"
352-867-4118
austin.miller@starbanner.com
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Tomas Banevicius, a 40-year-old electrician from New York, had as his goal to fly solo from a mountain.

http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=OS&Date=20160219&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=160219707&Ref=AR&MaxW=728&logo=/images/watermark.gif&logoxpos=0&logoypos=0
Image
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Tomas Banevicius
Submitted photo

Pursuing that dream, Banevicius, originally from Kanunas, Lithuania, began taking hang gliding classes. He had been hang gliding with US Hang Gliding, Inc., out of New York, for several months, officials said.

With the cold weather in New York, Banevicius made a trip to Marion County. He left New York on Jan. 31 on a vacation with his friend James Donovan. Banevicius planned to spend a week practicing in the warmer climate and then return home.

On Feb. 2, he died in a hang gliding accident at the Marion County Airport in Dunnellon.

"The purpose of the trip was to get better and have experience," said Dzaneta Daneviciene, his wife of nearly 20 years. Daneviciene said she was "very shocked and surprised. It was a vacation trip."

Banevicius was hang gliding at the airport when the hang glider turned to the right and then fell to the ground from about 35 feet up, according to a Marion County Sheriff's Office report. It crashed within 40 seconds of takeoff on his third flight of the day.

Marion County Fire Rescue officials pronounced him dead at the scene at 6:35 p.m. Paramedics told deputies that when they arrived Banevicius was not breathing and had no pulse.

Banevicius had been practicing with power tow line system, in which a cable is attached to someone who is then hoisted into the air, on Runway 14.

Since his death, sheriff's officials have investigated the crash and have ruled his death an accident.

Donovan, who was recently re-certified as an instructor, told Detective Erik Dice his friend had been hang gliding for six or seven months, according to the report. Though Banevicius was a novice, Donovan said, the student could fly alone with supervision.

Dice met with Mitchell Shipley, the Hang Gliding Accident Committee chair for the U.S. Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association. The official reviewed equipment used in the flight, including the hang glider, and did not find any specific fault with the equipment. Shipley looked at the harness and helmet and did not see any problems.

The detective also reviewed video from the crash.

During his flight, ground personnel, who were watching him, were communicating with him through a two-way radio system. They said he traveled about 500 feet before the crash.

When he crashed, they called 911. A witness told the Sheriff's Office Banevicius was not moving or breathing. They did chest compression on him until medical personnel arrived and took over life-saving efforts.

According to the report, Donovan said Banevicius's first flight was with someone on top and Banevicius at the bottom. The second flight was Banevicius alone, and the third flight was with his new harness.

The third flight was going fine until the wing lifted, he said. Then Banevicius corrected and over-corrected. He went right, and the glider began to turn toward downwind. Donovan said they cut the power and the nose of the glider may have popped up. It then went to the right and hit the ground.

Banevicius's wife said they were married in 1996. They came from the same town in Lithuania and got married there. They have a 18-year-old son.

He was an electrician and owned his own company, she said. "Our dream was to come to the U.S. for a better life."
Hang glider had dreamed of flying solo from a mountain | Ocala.com

Tomas Banevicius, a 40-year-old electrician from New York, had as his goal to fly solo from a mountain.
- Or, following in the footsteps of one of his recent local new Two predecessors, fly solo...
2015/05/17 - Scott Trueblood

Scott Trueblood (44), a Novice (H2) pilot and USHPA member since 2014, suffered fatal injuries during a flight in Ellenville, NY. The pilot launched just after 6 PM in "student friendly" air and had a five minute flight. After making several successful 180 degree shallow turns (20 degree) working the ridge at a safe distance, the pilot made a steeper turn (60 degree) and went past 180 degrees leveling out pointing directly at the ridge and flew into it causing fatal injuries.
...INTO a mountain (and suffer fatal injuries).

- SOLO? Why would any new hang glider pilot wanna fly SOLO? (I wonder if anybody ever informed him that there was nothing in the SOPs mandating tandem and that back in the old days nobody ever heard of tandem training and managed to survive to their Threes, Fours, Fives, AT ratings just fine.)
Pursuing that dream, Banevicius, originally from Kanunas, Lithuania, began taking hang gliding classes. He had been hang gliding with US Hang Gliding, Inc., out of New York, for several months, officials said.
- Trained him real well, didn't they?
- Who, exactly, IS US Hang Gliding, Inc.? What are their names and qualifications?
With the cold weather in New York, Banevicius made a trip to Marion County. He left New York on Jan. 31 on a vacation with his friend James Donovan.
Who has been totally devastated by this tragedy and is posting nonstop in intense and heated discussions to help make sure nothing like this ever happens to anybody again.
Banevicius planned to spend a week practicing in the warmer climate and then return home.
Mission partially accomplished.
On Feb. 2, he died in a hang gliding accident...
No.
...at the Marion County Airport in Dunnellon.

"The purpose of the trip was to get better and have experience," said Dzaneta Daneviciene, his wife of nearly 20 years. Daneviciene said she was "very shocked and surprised. It was a vacation trip."
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Banevicius was hang gliding at the airport when the hang glider turned to the right...
Why did the hang glider turn to the right? Did the pilot tell it to or was it being acted on by external forces?
...and then fell to the ground from about 35 feet up...
Gawd! First the hang glider turned to right and then it fell to the ground. Just wasn't his day.
...according to a Marion County Sheriff's Office report.
- ALREADY?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo
Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)
- How can an accident investigation involving a fatality possibly be complete in under seventeen days? Surely there were at least a few months worth of evidence and testimony to sift through and make sense of.

- Will the public have access to the evidence used in finalizing the Marion County Sheriff's Office report? Or does all that hafta go through a proper system of Privileged Information Decimators?
It crashed within 40 seconds of takeoff on his third flight of the day.

Marion County Fire Rescue officials pronounced him dead at the scene at 6:35 p.m. Paramedics told deputies that when they arrived Banevicius was not breathing and had no pulse.

Banevicius had been practicing with power tow line system...
- Too bad he wasn't practicing with an UNpowered towline system. Those are MUCH safer.
- Powered by WHAT?
- Was it powered at the time of the crash?
...in which a cable...
A steel cable, right?
...is attached to someone...
Oh. So there was no bridle or glider attachment involved. They just hooked the steel cable directly to Tomas.
...who is then hoisted...
hoist - raise (something) by means of ropes and pulleys: high overhead great cranes hoisted girders.
Or gliders.
...into the air...
Show of hands, people of varying ages... How may of you have had cables attached to you and been hoisted into the air by them?
...on Runway 14.
Aiming southeast.
Since his death, sheriff's officials have investigated the crash...
Sheriff's officials highly qualified in investigating hang glider tow crashes - who use terms like "cable" and "hoist" in their reports.
...and have ruled his death an accident.
They’ve also ruled that he had a cable attached to him and was hoisted into the air by it.
Donovan, who was recently re-certified as an instructor...
James Donovan - New York - 38584 - Exp: 2016/05/31
- H5 - 2012/11/23 - Paul Voight - AT FL TAT TFL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - BAS INST (Exp: 2018/12/31), MNTR, OBS
- P1 - 2015/10/26 - Ryan Voight - FL
...told Detective Erik Dice his friend...
Right. Just his FRIEND.
Tomas Banevicius - New York - 97154 - H2 - 2016/01/29 - James Donovan - FL FSL - Exp: 2016/10/31
Let's not mention that he was also his INSTRUCTOR and had signed him off on his Two four days prior to him dying doing what he loved.
...had been hang gliding for six or seven months, according to the report. Though Banevicius was a novice, Donovan said, the student could fly alone with supervision.
Oh. So after six or seven months a student is PERMITTED to fly solo. Prior to that it's all tandem. That's good to know.
Dice met with Mitchell Shipley...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27396
Scooter tow faillure... or Never Land On Your Face
Mitch Shipley - 2012/10/22 19:04:16 UTC

We engage in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction.
The official reviewed equipment used in the flight, including the hang glider, and did not find any specific fault with the equipment.
...a well established authority on...

Image

...scooter tow crashes.
...the Hang Gliding Accident Committee chair for the U.S. Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association.
The U.S. Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association? THIS:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting
Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe. Even so, we get sued periodically by people who say we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done something that would have averted their accident.

It's not just concern for meet directors and policy makers...it's about our continued existence as an association. It's about minimizing the chance of our getting sued out of existence. We're one lawsuit away from that, all the time, and we think hard about it. I would LOVE to not have to think that way, but every time a legal threat arises, it reminds me that we have a very dysfunctional legal system in this country (note: not a "justice" system...there's little justice involved) and we have to recognize that reality and deal with it.
U.S. Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association? Exactly what is it you're expecting to get from a Hang Gliding Accident Committee chair from an organization that openly states that it's not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and can't be because of a dysfunctional US legal system that invariably dysfunctions in favor of the plaintiff?
The official reviewed equipment used in the flight, including the hang glider...
Which was a tandem...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34019
Very sad news
Dave Hopkins - 2016/02/10 16:55:19 UTC

Tomas was a light pilot. His personal glider was a Falcon 140 and that was about right for his weight .
...with a five hundred pound hook-in capacity.
...and did not find any specific fault with the equipment.
- Fuck no.

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Industry Standard release right there within easy reach...

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Extremely long track record.

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- No SPECIFIC faults but in GENERAL terms it totally sucked. Like putting a light brand new Two on a tandem glider with an easily reachable Industry Standard release.
Shipley looked at the harness and helmet and did not see any problems.
- Carabiner locked? Backup loop look OK? Hook knife easily accessible? Parachute properly packed?

- So why didn't his weak link break when it was supposed to? Did he hook up with a Tad-O-Link 'cause he didn't wanna deal with any inconvenience?

- Did the Hang Gliding Accident Committee chair for the U.S. Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association also look at the personnel involved in the operation and also find no specific faults with the equipment?

- Yeah, ya always wanna look at the harness whenever there's a tow crash forty seconds into the flight. That's a real biggie.

- Oh. He looked at the HELMET and didn't see a problem. Three possibilities...
-- Torn aorta and the helmet issue was totally irrelevant.
-- He smashed in on his head and the helmet:
--- was in totally pristine condition.
--- did as good a job as it could and was thus toast - but Mitch didn't see any problems.
The detective also reviewed video from the crash.
- The video that we muppets will never be permitted to see.
- With Mitch right there explaining to him what was TYPICAL.
During his flight, ground personnel, who were watching him, were communicating with him through a two-way radio system.
- Ground personnel - conspicuously unidentified - were communicating with him. Plural.

-- Did we have enough cooks telling him what to and not to do in the course of the flight?

-- What were they telling him that they forgot to bring him up to speed on before the flight?

-- How 'bout when things started going south? Any good last minute tips, words of wisdom?

-- Good thing we had ground personnel watching and communicating with him through a two-way radio system. Things could've gotten really ugly otherwise.

- Communicating WITH him through a TWO-way radio system. So...

-- He was talking to them as well. So what did he have to say in the course of that epic 40 second flight?

-- Presumably he was set up like:

05-065603
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08-082011
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He could talk on the radio with both hands on the basetube but the release was good within easy reach.

- So we're saying that ground personnel ARE, in fact...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)
Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/01 03:46:29 UTC

Among ourselves, we agree (via the waiver) that we understand we're engaged in a risky sport that can cause serious injury or death. We each agree that we are personally and individually responsible for our own safety. If we have an accident and get hurt, we agree in advance that it is solely our own fault, no matter what the circumstances might be. We sign at the bottom saying that we fully understand these things, that we accept them, and that we know we are giving up the right to sue anybody if an accident happens.

Those are fundamental tenets of our sport. We are all individually responsible for ourselves and our safety. We need to see and avoid all other pilots, avoid crashing into people or property and use good judgment when flying. If someone doesn't agree with those principles, then they don't need to be involved in our sport.
...relevant to the safety of a tow operation?
They said he traveled about 500 feet before the crash.
Oh. The crane hoisted him up then drove about five hundred feet down Runway 14 before dropping him? Obviously 'cause it wasn't like he FLEW about five hundred feet.
When he crashed, they called 911.
Damn! The should've called 911 BEFORE he crashed. Certainly no later than the point at which he was hoisted into the air.
A witness...
Whom we're not identifying.
...told the Sheriff's Office Banevicius was not moving or breathing. They did chest compression...
- Oh. He wasn't BREATHING so they did CHEST COMPRESSION. Did anybody check for a pulse.?

- "A witness" is SINGULAR. "They" is PLURAL. Who is/are he/she/they and how many of them were doing chest compression? Any chance any of them were of the aforementioned "personnel"?

- Sure is a good thing that u$hPa Instructors are required to be Red Cross certified in First Aid and CPR - ain't it?
...on him until medical personnel arrived and took over life-saving efforts.
I got news for ya. Making life saving efforts on a hang glider crashee with no pulse is a waste of time and effort.
According to the report, Donovan said Banevicius's first flight was with someone...
Whom we're not identifying. But in order to do this LEGALLY he'd need to be certified as a tandem instructor - and James Donovan ain't.
Bryon Estes - New York - 75288 - H4 - 2007/04/23 - Paul Voight
- AT FL LGO PL ST TAT TPL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC
- ADV INST, TAND INST, TUG PILOT
-- Exp: 2018/12/31 - ADV INST, TAND INST
http://flyhighhg.com/about-us/
About us | Fly High Hang Gliding
Bryon Estes
US Hang Gliding, Inc. Flight School Manager


Bryon is rated for instruction, tandem, areo-tow, platform tow, cross country, restricted landing field, Cliff launches and several other minor ratings.
...on top and Banevicius at the bottom. The second flight was Banevicius alone...
- On the same tandem glider.
- And he's undoubtedly still launching from the wheels and flying prone.
- So he checked out OK on the tandem check ride. Glad we did that. You can never be too careful with these new Twos.
...and the third flight...
On the same tandem glider.
...was with his new harness.
- And he's undoubtedly still launching from the wheels and flying prone.

- Whoa! The two previous flights went OK. I'll bet there was a problem with this new harness. No, wait. Shipley looked at the harness and helmet and did not see any problems.
The third flight was going fine until the wing lifted, he said.
- THE wing? The fuckin' glider has TWO wings. So which one was it and why aren't you telling us which one it was?

- Oh. The wing lifted. You got the video so we know that Tomas didn't roll the glider. So how come the wing lifted? How come we're hearing ZERO about the fucking CONDITIONS?
Then Banevicius corrected and over-corrected.
So he brought the glider back to level, was OK for a couple seconds, then decided to correct it some more? Bullshit.
He went right...
Oh. So NOW we get to hear about direction. Why didn't we before?
...and the glider began to turn toward downwind.
Which means they were towing with a left/northeast cross - probably substantial.
Donovan said they cut the power...
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...

Image

Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually
So...

- Why didn't Donovan say they EASED the power the instant he started getting in trouble. Why did they wait and totally dump tension on him when he was turning/rolling right/downwind?

- If abruptly aborting the tow was the right call then why didn't Tomas make the easy reach to his Industry Standard release? Did he think he could fix a bad thing and not want to start over? Surely he was properly trained to...

- How come the weak link wasn't weak enough...
Quest Air - Aerotow FAQ

ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
...always release the towline before there is a problem. Wasn't that covered on the check ride?
Quest Air - Aerotow FAQ

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.
...to break before the pressure of the towline reached a level that compromised the handling of the glider?
...and the nose of the glider may have popped up.
- What do you mean "the nose of the glider MAY HAVE popped up"? You've got this on video - it either DID or DIDN'T.
- Popped up all by itself for some totally inexplicable reason? Or are you implying that Tomas popped it up - that he responded to the assholes who cut the power by...

09-00628
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...pushing out? He's a serious Hang Two and he was flying and towing fine prior to this one but at the worst possible time in his career he either deliberately popped the nose or allowed it to pop. BULLSHIT.
It then went to the right...
I thought...
He went right and the glider began to turn toward downwind.
...he'd already gone right.
...and hit the ground.
No shit. This guy was having a fairly minor control issue that he was capable of and dealing with and these total fucking douchebags...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
...fixed whatever was going on up there by giving him the rope and he suffered fatal injuries from another inconvenience stall - just like Zack Marzec did three years plus three hours prior 49 miles to the southeast.
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson
Case closed.
Banevicius's wife said they were married in 1996. They came from the same town in Lithuania and got married there. They have a 18-year-old son.
No. Now SHE has an 18-year-old son. And the Voight Twins, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Mitch Shipley, all the assholes associated with this one have blood on their hands.
He was an electrician and owned his own company, she said. "Our dream was to come to the U.S. for a better life."
Sickening.
Dave Gills - 2016/02/04 19:24:44 UTC

Not a fan of using any weak link during scooter towing.
My guess is that it broke with a VERY high nose attitude in the kill zone.
The best release in the world wouldn't do squat.
Yeah Dave, you pretty much called it right. 'Cept the weak link in a lot of these systems is some asshole with his hand on a dump lever...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg
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...rather than (in addition to) a loop of magic fishing line.

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User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmpUWxWWs3A


01-02610
- 01 - chronological order
- -0 - minutes
- 26 - seconds
- 10 - frame (30 fps)

Bob Grant, T2C, no fin, 1.5 point bridle (pilot and carabiner), Industry Standard Quallaby primary release (no longer banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay), easily reachable actuator securely velcroed to port control tube, bent pin backup, hanging way the fuck high, pod zipped, Wallaby (So why even bother flying with a release?), wind probably negligible. Mach 4 takeoff - safely short of the hogwash - after 4.07 seconds of roll time.

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One point five bridle pull-in to arrest climb and wait for the Dragonfly to finish accelerating to Mach 6.

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Now you see it...

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Now you don't.

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This safe towing system has no focal point:

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Unless you count the one protecting the bent pin backup from being overloaded. So if the Dragonfly's tow mast breakaway and protector hold you've got twice the tension you'd have with THE weak link. And WHEN the secondary/primary primary blows - which it will 'cause the Wallaby release is known to suck under normal load - the bottom end of the bridle is gonna fly forward at the speed of sound and...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh it happens.
I have, all the guys I work with have.
(Our average is 1 in 1,000 tows)

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.
So now you have four hundred pounds pulling on your carabiner and nowhere else. Or your keel if you're rigged better.

If you're lucky you get the rope. If you're not the Dragonfly tow mast breakaway protector blows and that bridle welds itself to its tow ring. And there's no limit to what the tug's release is feeling south of towline.

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That's a polypro bridle he got from Dr. Trisa Tilletti that won't act somewhat like an impact wrench on the weak link that he's not using. Make that twice the speed of sound and quadruple the certainty that it'll wrap.

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Now you see it again...

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Cocked a bit inboard from where we saw it the first time.

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You're on final, dude. You need to be upright to keep your face from being pounded in and on the control tubes for better roll authority.

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And, oh my God! Your pod's still zipped! What happens if you need to land in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place?

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OK, perfect time for your flare.

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And no sign of the old Frisbee in the middle of the LZ. You're busted to Hang 0.6. Back to the training hill for ya. Get back to us in a year or so.

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You're so lucky you didn't break your freakin' neck.

Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post9165.html#p9165
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47096
Aerotow primary releases?
Matt Pruett (Entelin) - 2016/03/22 02:10:37 UTC
Minneapolis

Is there any consensus on what the best/safest aerotow primary release is?
In hang gliding there's no consensus on two plus two equals four so how can there be any consensus on anything else?
I'm a fairly new pilot, just got my H3, and have been finishing buying my own equipment. There seems to be many approaches in use and little consensus...
And what does that tell you? If you were looking for the best performing flex wing glider money could buy how much different would the options available from the various manufacturers look?
...here is what I've found so far (keep in mind I am new and by no means an expert...
A grade school kid who understands grade school math and science can be an expert on this subject.
...this is just my impression from reading various articles and posts by others):
Take a good look at some of the posts Davis has deleted by the authors Davis has banned.
GT Manufacturing Inc. (GT) and Lookout Mountain Flight Park Inc. (LMFP) make no claim of serviceability of this tow equipment. There is no product liability insurance covering this gear and we do not warrant this gear as suitable for towing anything.

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.
I've mainly used this type of barrel release thus far (though it was either an older LMFP model, or a different brand, because it doesnt look exactly the same as this).
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1558/25912821781_ced007a9d6_o.jpg
Image
It's nice that you don't have to move your hand much to release it.
Well, if it actually worked you wouldn't.
I've read some posts criticizing it's alternate L shaped release design as attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist...
Welcome to hang gliding. Backup loops, locking carabiners, standup spot landings, not doing stomp tests, routine sidewires replacements, hang checks, tow mast breakaways...
...and release strength at high loading (like in the case of a lockout for example).
- Tell me how an L shaped "design" is an ATTEMPT to solve any kind of problem - existent or non. The only thing this piece o' shit was designed and engineered to do was look like what a hang glider driver expected a release to look like.

- Aerotow lockouts tend not to involve much tension until they've progressed well beyond the point they can maim or kill you if you're low. Ask John Claytor if you don't believe me.
I think I personally experienced that on one occasion where I had failed to preflight my glider properly, and the crossbar was pulling one wing tight...
And leaving the other loose.
...causing a lockout immediately on launch.
Do send my regards to your launch monkey.
In that situation I remember pulling on the release, but the weak link beat me to it.
Zack Marzec's weak link beat him to pulling on his release as well. Bit of an inconvenience though, as he wasn't planning on pulling his release. (And couldn't have if he'd wanted to.)
At the time I was unaware that the force it takes to pull the release can be notably higher at higher loading.
Ya think? Welcome to the world of Newtonian physics.
http://www.blueskyhg.com/products/accessories/ATprimary.jpg
Image

This release uses a release mechanism which apparently is common and "proven" in sailing at high loading...
APPARENTLY? "PROVEN"?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4049
Towing errata
Bill Bryden - 2004/04/01 16:20:18 UTC

Some aerotow releases, including a few models from prominent schools, have had problems releasing under high tensions. You must VERIFY through tests that a release will work for the tensions that could possibly be encountered. You better figure at least three hundred pounds to be modestly confident.

Maybe eight to ten years ago I got several comments from people saying a popular aerotow release (with a bicycle type brake lever) would fail to release at higher tensions. I called and talked to the producer sharing the people's experiences and concerns. I inquired to what tension their releases were tested but he refused to say, just aggressively stated they never had any problems with their releases, they were fine, goodbye, click. Another person tested one and found it started getting really hard to actuate in the range of only eighty to a hundred pounds as I vaguely recall. I noticed they did modify their design but I don't know if they ever really did any engineering tests on it. You should test the release yourself or have someone you trust do it. There is only one aerotow release manufacturer whose product I'd have reasonable confidence in without verifying it myself, the Wallaby release is not it.
Can you find any performance specs on 2673 Wichard Quick Release Shackle? That thing's designed to HOLD an insanely high load - not RELEASE it.
...and a handbreak activation.
If it's "proven" in sailing at high loading then why does it need a handBRAKE boost?
The main downside with the handbrake...
Much better.
...seems to be that it means you have to move your hand to release...
Quite a bit...

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...sometimes.
...and since you don't have a strap for your hand, there may be some emergency situations where it's not as easy to grab.
- While you're maintaining what control of the glider you can with the other hand.

- Well, it it's just SOME emergency situations... And we're not really sure they exist anyway. And it's just a matter of EASE. You're still gonna be ABLE to grab it. And nuthin' bad will ever happen WHILE you're grabbing it - with a little extra difficulty.
Other posts have mentioned the shape of the release is incredibly problematic due to it's curve downwards...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318769461/
Image Image
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/
...and the notch, etc.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318846765/
Image

Don't worry...

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/robinsshacklebig.jpg
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It was banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay.
See:
http://www.getoffrelease.com/
A barrel type release with a pin instead.
That's what a barrel type release originally was - 'cept with Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey's idiot bent pin.
The main intention seems to be decreasing release pressure...
TENSION.
...at higher loading.
Higher than WHAT? What are you using for a weak link and why?

Oh. The main INTENTION *SEEMS TO BE*. His published test results - and he's the only guy ('cept Yours Truly) who publishes test results - mean NOTHING. Just an expression of his OPINION.
Wear components are not covered up and are clearly visible which is another plus.

http://www.skydogsports.com/release/

Another release...
So he claims.
...somewhat different.
Ya think? It's a fuckin' spinnaker pole catch. It's not engineered to handle any tension whatsoever. The guy's a moron.
http://www.birrendesign.com/linknife.html

Found this interesting release, though I haven't found any flight park actively using them so far.
Yeah. People who ACTUALLY TOW at significant volumes don't wanna fuck with this bullshit that doesn't solve any actual problems. And ya wanna see how effective it is in the REAL world?:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Weaklinks
Peter Birren - 2008/10/27 23:41:49 UTC

You trying to tell me the pilot had time to release? Not a prayer.

I know about this type of accident because it happened to me, breaking 4 ribs and my larynx... and I was aerotowing using a dolly. The sh*t happened so fast there was no room for thought much less action. But I wasn't dragged because the weaklink did its job and broke immediately on impact.

Imagine if you will, just coming off the cart and center punching a thermal which takes you instantly straight up while the tug is still on the ground. Know what happens? VERY high towline forces and an over-the-top lockout. You'll have both hands on the basetube pulling it well past your knees but the glider doesn't come down and still the weaklink doesn't break (.8G). So you pull whatever release you have but the one hand still on the basetube isn't enough to hold the nose down and you pop up and over into an unplanned semi-loop. Been there, done that... at maybe 200 feet agl.
Peter's ACTUAL survival strategy...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4593
Weaklinks
Peter Birren - 2005/02/08 19:22:49 UTC

What is the big issue? Re-launching? Oh, the wasted time! Oh, the hassle! Oh, the embarrassment! These are sure preferrable to Oh Shit!
...is to always be really high when the shit hits the fan and/or have his magic fishing line break when it's supposed to.
Image
...appears quite different from the others.
It's a two-string. Easily reachable garbage.
Separately there seems to be some debate over straight pins vs curved pins for barrel secondarys...
You're welcome.
...any consensus on that?
Sure there is. Just go to any Flight Park Mafia tow operation and look at what people are actually using. You're just looking for a CONSENSUS, right? You don't really give a flying fuck about actual physics and documented performance numbers.
It seems like curved pins are most common, but other's claim they increase pull forces and don't solve any perceived...
Manufactured.
...issues with straight pins? I'm currently leaning towards getting a getoffrelease for the primary.
Lean harder.
I have two curved pin secondary's right now.
Pull them both at the same time. That'll cut the required actuation force in half.
Thanks.
Yep. Thank the Dedicated Sycophant Colony in advance for all the excellent opinions you're gonna get.

Somebody give this guy the benefit of the doubt and tune him into Kite Strings.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47096
Aerotow primary releases?
Davis Straub - 2016/03/22 02:54:10 UTC

http://ozreport.com/goodies.php
Yeah Davis... Posting the link to your cheap bent pin pro toad shit really addresses a lot of the issues this guy brought up.
Fuckin' gold mines. Must deal with in more depth later.
Hard to beat the Lookout Mountain primary release.
- Considering all the other total shit available from Flight Park Mafia operations.

- But not impossible. But this shit is hard to beat so why go looking for anything better?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16384
Tow Release Malfunction
Jim Rooney - 2010/03/26 20:54:43 UTC

Dude, quit bogarting that stuff ;)
How's it go? Never say never.

Bent pin releases are indeed very very reliable. But 100%? Nope. It's exceptionally rare, but they jam. All mechanical things do.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?
Jim Rooney - 2011/02/06 18:35:13 UTC

I don't really have anything against the Kotch release.
I think it's big, clunky and expensive, but I'm sure it works fine.
I'm also sure it has it's problems just like any other system. The minute someone starts telling me about their "perfect"system, I start walking away.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/12 18:00:27 UTC

I get tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want that. I've been doing it for years but unfortunately the peddlers are religious in their beliefs so they find justification any way they can to "prove" their stuff. This is known as "Confirmation Bias"... seeking data to support your theory... it's back-asswards. Guess what? The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality.
- Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney tells you simultaneously that these releases WILL fail (And when would you expect it to fail? Low or High tension? Pick one.) AND that it doesn't work AT ALL - as it's not being used by 100.000 percent of the people on the face of the planet who aerotow. So why are you listening to this despicable little motherfucker?

- Ask him how many flights he's had on each of the two flavors and how many times he's blown them in emergency situations.
Pick your flavour... bike handle or pull chord.
chord - a group of (typically three or more) notes sounded together, as a basis of harmony
So towards which "flavoUr" are you leaning?
We offer the primary release in two configurations.

The brake lever release configuration is favored by some pilots becuase, due to the mechanical advantage of the lever, there is less release pressure when actuating the release.

You can also check out the loop release mechanism configuration. Some pilots prefer the loop release mechanism because you don't have to let go of the basetube to actuate the release.
The brake lever release on which you're gonna die trying to fight the lockout with one hand? Or...
We offer the primary release in two configurations.

The loop release configuration is favored by some pilots becuase, you don't have to let go of the basetube to actuate the release

You can also check out the brake lever release mechanism configuration. The brake lever release configuration is favored by some pilots becuase, due to the mechanical advantage of the lever, there is less release pressure when actuating the release.
The loop release which jams under tension?
All release configurations are manufactured here by LMFP and the release tension is tested at varying pounds of tension
All release configurations are manufactured here by LMFP and the release tension is tested at varying pounds of tension.
Either way you'll be fine because all release configurations are manufactured there by LMFP and the release tension is tested at varying pounds of tension(.) Really hard to go wrong with anything from...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14903
New Lookout Release--preliminary test
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction

...Lockout Mountain Flight Park.
The one's you've listed aren't bad though.
- He spells "flavour" with the extra vowel but doesn't know how to spell "ones" as a PLURAL.
- Yeah, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney knows all about hang glider AT releases 'cause he used to drive a tug.
The Ozzy...
Which would be spelled - and pronounced - "Aussie" by someone WITH a functional brain.
...ones...
Oh look. We got it right this time.
...are "three ring circus" designs...
Except they're not RINGS and there are only TWO stupidly overbuilt webbing LOOPS.

Image

By way of contrast, a rather nicely executed adaptation (Mason Release) of the concept:

Image
...popular in skydiving stuff.
Yeah, they're POPULAR in skydiving STUFF. Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney knows all about skydiving too. What that is is a major degradation of the skydiving three-ring cutaway release:

Image

...universally installed on the shoulders to dump a malfunctioning main before the reserve is deployed.
They work in AT...
Like a hook knife - it also works in AT. Or a pet rat on a leash trained to chew through a bridle. That'll also work in AT. Not something one would have as a first choice for surface tow - but it will still work.

They are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT *ABSENT* in AT - 'cept for the multi-string bite controlled jobs Steve Kinsley and Yours Truly...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305333309/
Image

...have gotten into circulation. Beyond that the little shit's never been in contact with them in AT.
...but strings and things have a tendency to grab things in strange and unusual ways under load.
Always strange and unusual. A virtually infinite panoply of strangeness and unusualness 837 documented incidents to date and only fifteen which have been duplicated one or more times. The only reason people keep flying these things is to see the new totally unanticipated grabbing patterns. They always have their GoPros running to record the events because they only survive the strange and unusual grabbing patterns in about two out of three events.

Meanwhile, back in reality, multi-strings have been used in hang glider towing since the early Eighties and there isn't a single documented instance of this latest product of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's ass actually occurring and you couldn't make anything happen if you tried. But if you wanna see ACTUAL strings and things ACTUALLY grabbing things in obvious and totally predictable ways under load, stray no further than Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh it happens.
I have, all the guys I work with have.
(Our average is 1 in 1,000 tows)
...wrapping at the tow ring - particularly...
Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.
ImageImageImageImage

...and his total douchebag AT Industry friends using the cheap stupid crap they're trying to sell you.
I use them for PG pay-in towing though...
What's "pay-in" towing? Nobody does anything and the towline pressure causes the winch drum to turn and take up rope pulling the paraglider down towards it?
...they work.
And here we muppets were thinking that your paragliders were never released from tow.
Pay-in's pressure regulated (mostly) though.
Oh c'mon Jim. Surely you squeeze more utter nonsense into a sentence that long if only you put your keen intellect into the effort.
I've been pretty amazed by....
Stand by, people of varying ages... Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's about to tell us...
Tad Eareckson - 2016/03/18 20:24:02 UTC

Some day I should put together a collection of all the things you're always AMAZED by.
...yet something else he's been pretty AMAZED by.
...the wacky things ropes and strings have done in AT over the years.
Funny none of you AT professionals seem to be able to get the ropes and strings - the core elements of aircraft towing - to stop doing all those amazing wacky things in AT over the years. Funny that in thousands of years of sail powered nautical navigation we've never heard anybody from that technology talking about being amazed by all the wacky things ropes and strings have done in sailing over the millennia.
For "pro-towing"...
Why is "pro-towing" in quotes?
...barrel's work well and have a looooong track record.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!
Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link
Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..
Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.

No stress because I was high.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7511/16020130310_44e703c111_o.png
Image
Image
Bent pin? Straight pin? ... not going down that path...
See, people of varying ages? He really DOES have a keen intellect.
...they've both got their upsides and their downsides.
The upside of the bent pin? It's what Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and his douchebag buddies sell and anchor their reputations on. The upside of the straight pin? It works under load and won't weld itself shut the way the crap that Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and his douchebag buddies sell and anchor their reputations on does all the fuckin' time.
That horse has been flogged to death here...
Yep. Just like...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

My response is short because I've been saying it for years... and yes, I'm a bit sick of it.
This is a very old horse and has been beaten to death time and time again... by a very vocal minority.

See, most people are happy with how we do things. This isn't an issue for them. They just come out and fly. Thing's aren't perfect, but that's life... and life ain't perfect. You do what you can with what you've got and you move on.

But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)

I have little time for these people.
...the Rooney Link had been until it fatally increased the safety of the towing operation on one of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney idiot pro toad buddies. And some day we're gonna get a nice video of someone trying to pry one of those things open in a lockout at altitude with one of those new two hundred pound weak links that Davis is so happy with not breaking when it's supposed to.
...do some digging through old threads if you really want to open that can of worms.
The Newtonian physics / ten year old kid common sense can of worms I was telling you about earlier.
Favourite advice?
Don't be a test pilot.
Only fly stuff with KNOWN ways to kill you.
You've got the right idea... dig up the popular ones and figure out the upsides and downsides and make an informed decision.
In other words, the little shit doesn't know what he's talking about well enough to inform you of anything. Try to find a discussion this totally insane regarding sailplane release. There's two: the Schweizer, which is simple and cheap and won't work under majorly misaligned tension, and the Tost, which is complex and expensive and bulletproof.
Good luck
You'll need it. Luck is what Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and his buddies use as the focal points of their safe towing and free flight systems and it hasn't worked out for them very well.
Jim
Wasn't that helpful? Were you able to get through it without having your IQ drop five points?
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47096
Aerotow primary releases?
JD Guillemette - 2016/03/22 07:09:15 UTC

The release you have pictured...
Image
...has a know tendency...
A know tendency. Those are the worst kind.
...to cut weak links.
So does Peter Birren's placebo release - the one for which he got a u$hPa NAA Safety Award (despite the fact that nobody uses it in any significant volume operations).
That is actually a spinnaker release made for use with much thicker line.
And has a near one and a quarter ton safe working load. Think that's enough to stand up to whatever flavor of fishing line we're happy with using this month as the focal point of our safe towing system?
The problem is that because of the location of the anchor strap the thin weak link
How thin? What are we using now and what's it supposed to be doing for us? Doesn't look like 130 pound Greenspot. Hope it's got a track record looooong enough to be able to meet with our expectations.
...gets pulled into the hinge under tension...
As opposed to getting pulled under slack or pressure.
...and gets cut.
BULLSHIT.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305428629/
Image

IF it gets cut it's because the pivot rivet exposed edges haven't been completely deburred. Take a couple minutes with a fine file and smooth them out without marring anything.
People have for a longer time...
For a longer time than WHAT?
...drilled small holes...
- How many? I'm only seeing ONE.
- Yeah. That's a small hole. Just what the engineers at Wichard had in mind for this hardware.
...above the ring...
BAIL.
...(that the blue strap is attached to) and attached a cable at that point.
Thing of absolute beauty.
This way the weak link is puling on the gate below the hinge and does not cut the weak link.
And don't worry about what pulling on the gate below the hinge does to the performance of a piece of hardware that isn't designed to release under much load in the first place.

http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1523/25679752020_89cc46e0e3_o.jpg
Image

Thought you said...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link
JD Guillemette - 2008/02/07 12:51:57 UTC

For these same reasons, It just bothers me when people try to "improve" upon Bobby Bailey's designs ... simply put, the designs are at the maximum of efficiency and safety. So I'm right back to where I was. I see no problem in the way things are currently done and creating overly complicated mouth actuated releases is just a waste of time.
...it just bothered you when people tried to "improve" upon Bobby Bailey's designs because they were, simply put, at the maximum of efficiency and safety. But that doesn't apply to drilling out the foundation and misaligning the mechanism 45 degrees because you're too fuckin' stupid to be able to figure out how to smooth out contact surfaces?

(Beautiful photo - in case I forget to mention it before - by the way.)

This guy was trying to get some solid information, asked a bunch of halfway intelligent questions, and got buried in total crap from three Davis Show total douchebags. And it appears that the thread is now as dead as Tom Banevicius after four posts. So much for trying to engage intellects.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47096
Aerotow primary releases?
Swift - 2016/03/22 21:58:16 UTC

Ask here:

http://www.kitestrings.org/topic7-900.html#p9191
Jim Rooney - 2016/03/23 00:21:21 UTC

Oh dear lord... don't do that to him without warning him!
Oh dear lord... I'd say Swift posting that link was a warning about listening to Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.
That dude is a serious nutcase.
Who was an instructor while you were still in diapers - age ten I'm guessing - and a Four over a decade before you first started blighting the sport. Also started towing in 1980 before the lower connection got moved off the basetube and onto the pilot.
I'm not kidding in the least.
You and your favourite cocksuckee...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 20:10:56 UTC

Oh, and BTW, Tad is clueless as well as being a child molester (no kidding).
...are NEVER kidding in the least...
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 23:12:32 UTC

Just to back Davis up on this, cuz the person that let's the cat out of the bag always gets flack for it...

So we're clear as a bell on this.
Tad is a convicted paedophile.

This is not rumour, this is not speculation. This is straight from the horses mouth... I asked him about it.
Believe it or not, a paedophile can have no issue with telling you this stuff as they see what they do as "normal".

He was 30 years old when he had his 13 year old "boyfriend", as he puts it.
I don't know if that's the one he got locked up for, but I know the one he got locked up for was not his last.
I believe the other one(s) was younger.
I didn't have the stomach to delve into further detail.

He has been banned from every flying site he's ever set foot at and some he hasn't.

And yes, he is a deranged megalomaniac.
I had the displeasure of having to put up with him before he was kicked out of one of the flight parks that I was working for.

Good riddance.
That's all ya got? Serious nutcase?

What happened to child molester, convicted paedophile, deranged megalomaniac? Sounds like I'm getting better. Either that or you didn't get the results you wanted four and a half years ago.

You scummy parasites are close to succeeding in doing to hang gliding at large what you did to aerotowing viability in the Mid Atlantic. And I'm making progress in getting your place in history established right where it should be.

Thanks Swift, whomever you may be. Got his attention at least.
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