landing

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31279
How to break a heel
mrcc - 2014/05/23 20:44:38 UTC
NOT A NICE EXPERIENCE Image
Totally fucking unnecessary experience.
What was the outcome when you had your heel X-ray?
Worse than what it would've been before the stunt landing.
AndRand - 2014/05/23 20:57:25 UTC
Poland

What I found out is that there is a part of approach not so frequently pointed out - ballooning. When it is controlled and just right then the flare is just right. Image
Fuck the flare. It's NEVER just right when it's unnecessary. And it's NEVER necessary.
Also, preceding going into ground effect should be just right.
Of course setting final should be just right.
And turn on final...

...or corrected.
He was too busy trying to prepare for his stunt landing to worry about any of that other stuff.
Mike Harper - 2014/05/23 22:30:09 UTC

50 pieces

While looking at the CT scan my doctor said "It looks like your calcaneus is in fifty pieces". He said he doesn't think it will require any surgery because he doesn't see any displacement. But because he specializes in knees and spines he is going to ask his associate, who is a foot specialist, to look at the CT scan. So I am waiting for another call.
What fun!
About my landing.
Crash.
When coming in I was fine till I missed the DT three times.
No...
John Simon - 2009/01

I decided to go upright. This is where things started going really bad really fast.
...shit. (You actually only missed it two times. If you'd missed it three times you'd have probably broken BOTH heels into fifty pieces.)
By then I was in panic mode (heart pumping, adrenalin boost) and wasn't FEELING the gliders feedback for when to flair.
Maybe if you learn to spell it right consistently you'll have better luck.
Best not to get into those situations.
John Simon - 2009/01

I decided to go upright. This is where things started going really bad really fast.
I usually go for the DT just as I turn onto base. But tree avoidance came first, then missing DT then panic.
Did you NEED to go for the downtube?
Jim Steel - 2014/05/24 00:59:22 UTC

Ouch. I hate when that happens.
I don't. Otherwise there's just no hope whatsoever for the gene pool.
Get better soon. When you fly again maybe you might practice landing approach/configuration while soaring?
Like Bob Grant...

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...always does?

Nineteen posts now and still no sign of intelligent life. And a NEW "Incident Reports" topic:
I found the best Tacoma /FJ Rack
What a bunch of hopeless useless total douchebags.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31297
Bent keel?!
Mike Harper - 2014/05/24 15:58:34 UTC

I have seen a keel break on a good landing.
No you haven't. If you break the keel you did not - by definition - have a good landing.
It was a nice flare but then the glider came down keel first.
Kinda like THIS:

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but maybe a little harder?
I think that's why mfg keep the keel so short to avoid hitting them on landings. I've often thought when setting up my glider, if the keel were a foot longer these wingtips wouldn't be in the dirt.
Fuck the manufacturer. Despite all the total rot you've been hearing since the early Seventies hang gliders are not and can not be designed to be safely foot landed without nice smooth headwinds.
Dave Jacob - 2014/05/24 19:00:37 UTC

Where are the bends located?

The most common damage I've seen comes from someone ground striking the keel when landing. Unlike the version Mike is talking about, I've often seen it where a full flare is made but forward velocity is not arrested. Generally this occurs at high altitude in no wind conditions but could also happen with a downwind landing. Imagine the glider fully flared and moving about five or ten miles per hour horizontally then hitting the ground at the end of the keel. Since the contact occurs at nearly right angles to the long axis of the tube, it applies a moment load (bending load) to the keel which creates much higher stresses than a straight compression load. Several times I've seen keels bent almost ninety degrees. Usually this damage occurs out near the end past your haulback anchor.

I can't imagine you would have bent your tube tensioning your glider unless you are pushing down crazy hard on it in the process - which I think is unlikely.

Damage from your car racking seems unlikely as well. If your racks offered such bad support to result in bending tubes, I would think the longer leading edges would be more susceptible. As a new pilot, you should certainly ask someone you respect to review your racks if you are uncertain.
Yes. As you become a more experienced pilot you'll be able to understand the concepts of the straight line and support a lot better.
Crashing a glider opens up a whole world of possibilities and is in my view the most likely suspect if your bends occur near the connection point of your control frame.

Either way, good on you for having your glider inspected and bringing it back up to spec.
And keep landing the way Paul Voight is so masterfully demonstrating in dead air on his Happy Acres putting green. Lockout Mountain Flight Park will be very grateful for the business - when you, for exactly the same reason, do to your keel what Mike just did to his heel.
Steve Davy
Posts: 1338
Joined: 2011/07/18 10:37:38 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

I have seen a keel break on a good landing.
WOW! I mean just fucking wow! What an insanely moronic statement to post on a public forum for all the world to read.
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Tad Eareckson
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Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I was one of those insane total fuckin morons damn near my entire career. At some point - I have absolutely no idea when - I broke the keel of my HPAT 158 inside the aft sleeve on a good landing. Broken keels and jammed lower backs were just collateral damage resulting from really good, crisp, clean no-steppers.

My very first training flight - 1980/04/02, Kitty Hawk Kites, Jockey's Ridge, Jim Johns - I flew and landed instinctively, intuitively. But immediately the sky gods started working on me to progress and do it right. And so I did - and kept on working on it all the way up to my last flight - 2008/10/12, Ridgely.

Too bad that I left on bad terms and never really appreciated what a gift I had available in the form of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Hey Mike...

Go back to:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post6013.html#p6013
and watch the way Steve Pearson approaches and lands.

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And Dave Seib here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8oVEo8ybA


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- 32 - chronological order
- -1 - minutes
- 12 - seconds
- 08 - frame (15 fps)

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Ya notice that both of these guys keep their hands on the basetube until they've bled off so much steam that there's so little left that it would be extremely difficult and unlikely for it to burn them?

And note that when Dave bought it (2012/04/05, Brazil, mountain launch) it was either while he was upright with his hands on the downtubes or within a couple seconds thereafter.

Also note that both those guys take a couple steps to finish decelerating their gliders and don't stop with their noses pointed straight up and their keels straight down.
---
2020/07/14

For the beginning forty stills from this video:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post11972.html#p11972
Steve Davy
Posts: 1338
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

But immediately the sky gods started working on me to progress and do it right.
Reminds me of this:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=300435#300435
asshole.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

They've already got her bolted upright...

http://vimeo.com/53687514


...in no-control/arm-break position. Might as well go full Monty.

Is that asshole the same asshole as this:

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asshole?
Steve Davy
Posts: 1338
Joined: 2011/07/18 10:37:38 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

They've already got her bolted upright in no-control/arm-break position.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31296
hello - new member...
Tom Lyon - 2014/05/25 05:02:31 UTC

You definitely want to go to LMFP. It's not too far, and they have great instructors.

Please don't try to teach yourself. You can really get hurt bad, even on a small hill if you don't have proper instruction.
Yeah, so what's your point?
Might as well go full Monty.
Might as well remove the wheels as well. Helps with the motivation to get it right, just ask Mike Harper.

Don't know who that is in the photos but it isn't Andy Long, Andy drives an Atos VQ.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial
Mel Torres - 2013/08/11 02:55:45 UTC
Long Beach

Me spot landing practice at Andy Jackson Airpark. The second landing is UGLY!!! I was injured and thought I broke my right arm. Turns out I'm OK, though in pain.

Hang Gliding Spot Landings, The Good and The UGLY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3nnTrBJEdI
HGAviator - 2013/08/11
dead
Thanks bigtime, Mel. Oh well, as usual, I've got a copy...

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- 01 - chronological order
- -0 - minutes
- 07 - seconds
- 00 - frame (30 fps)

Launch:

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Hook-in check:

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Better get the gear down...

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And shift your hands to the downtubes so's you'll have good flare authority in case a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place opens up in the LZ before you get there.

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Good. Nice job not snagging a tail wire.

Now let's pull in for a little speed...

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C'mon. Let's REALLY in!

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http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!
Ryan Voight - 2012/09/25 05:59:51 UTC

You see... the human shoulder limits how far you can pull in. Prone or upright, you can really only get your hands back about even with your shoulders.
EXCELLENT!

Now let's bring the hands up to shoulder height for better flare authority...

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Rock up some more and ease out to adjust your glide so's you can hit the traffic cone...

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Now bring your hands up to ear height so's you can REALLY stop that thing...

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Out a little...

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Back In a little...

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WAY out!

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Back in...

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Out...

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WAY out - and quicken your step a bit 'cause you're way behind the glider and have nothing more with which to stop it...

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Now anchor that left control bar end in the turf so's you can bonk it without overshooting the traffic cone any more than necessary at this point.

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Well done! That's a really useful skill you're honing there! You just never know when somebody's gonna declare a spot landing contest.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29701
Flair timing is crucial

OK... Round Two. Let's take what you learned on your previous flight and build on it.

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Launch.

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Hook-in check. Solid.

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Going airborne.

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Proned out... Good... Now shift your hands down to optimal control position on the basetube...

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OK! You're really flying now!

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Time to start moving the hands up out of control and into landing position while you're still nice and high...

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OK. And get your legs down. You'll be needing those. You're heading to the LANDING Zone - after all.

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Lookin' good...

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Look at yourself. You're already grotesquely ugly. You started getting ugly three frames back. Ugly and flight tend not to go together very well. Compare/Contrast:

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Get those hands up more. Better pitch AND roll control!

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Good... Now keep your eyes on your target. You really need to stay...

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...FOCUSED...

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...at this point.

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Oops...

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May be just a WEE bit behind on your flair timing...

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Definitely. Try to get your legs down a little better so's you can run it out.

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Might have been a bit behind on roll control as well - but it looks like that issue is resolving itself now. Probably shouldn't have bothered mentioning it.

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And you're still getting closer to your target. But you might wanna consider letting go...

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...of the control frame at this point.

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There... You've got it. You're perfect!

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(Right, Glenn?)

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Oh look!

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A couple of fans are running out to congratulate you on getting as close to the spot as you did.

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Shouldn't they measure how close to the spot you got before they unhook you? Isn't that in the Hang Four requirements somewhere?

Oh well... Good to see that you're using a locking carabiner. This is aviation and you sure don't wanna scrimp anywhere on your safety margins.
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