http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30091
Notice of USHPA Disciplinary Hearing
Manta_Dreaming - 2013/10/09 00:36:46 UTC
I just got this in my email.
Anybody clued in on this?
Notice of USHPA Disciplinary Hearing
Attention USHPA Chapters & Members:
USHPA has scheduled a disciplinary hearing before the board of directors on Thursday, October 10th to consider complaints related to pilot behavior at a USHPA-insured site. Based on USHPA's initial review, there are two members facing possible suspension or termination of their USHPA membership. USHPA is working in conjunction with the local chapter responsible for the site to resolve complaints in a way that will enhance site safety and contribute to the long-term viability of the chapter and the site. Following the hearing, USHPA will report on the board's findings with respect to these two individuals as well as other related action USHPA may take.
USHPA serves its membership by providing advocacy, communication, community, flying sites, learning, and safety to ensure the future of free flight. The membership is encouraged to foster a culture of safety, learning, and support for all those engaged including fellow members, chapters, land owners, and spectators. Safety and civility is the cornerstone to our success, maintaining permission to fly where we do, and the insurance to protect our flying activities. While rare, there are times when your national organization must help the local club membership enforce the established bylaws to ensure these principles. Moving forward, may we all learn from these actions to better the future of free flight.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/24 16:26:09 UTC
Welcome to towing.
We've been doing this a long time and are quite familiar and comfortable with our processes.
Be nice and we can discuss it.
Be obnoxious and you can piss off.
Your choice.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC
It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).
We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.
I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.
Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.
So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 05:56:41 UTC
If you're Steve, sorry to be a prick about this.. but since you seem to have read Tad's blatherings, then you will likely also be familiar with why I'm being a prick.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 06:29:21 UTC
I'm happy to know that I am in fact speaking with Steve, not Tad.
Tad makes my skin crawl.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC
First, I sent Steve a bunch of info offline. Hopefully it clears things up a bit for him.
Unfortunately, he's stumbled onto some of Tad's old rantings and got suckered in. So most of this was just the same old story of debunking Tad's lunacy... again .
See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
We know what we're doing.
Sure "there's always room for improvement", but you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.
There isn't going to be some "oh gee, why didn't I think of that?" moment. The obvious answers have already been explored... at length.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC
Zach, you can nit pick all you like, but I'll put a 100,000+ flight record over your complaints any day of the week.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 06:04:23 UTC
Take this weaklink nonsense.
What do I "advocate"?
I don't advocate shit... I *USE* 130 test lb, greenspun cortland braided fishing line.
It is industry standard.
It is what *WE* use.
If someone's got a problem with it... we've got over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND TANDEM TOWS and COUNTLESS solo tows that argue otherwise. So they can politely get stuffed.
As my friend likes to say... "Sure, it works in
reality... but does it work in
theory?"
Hahahahhaa... I like that one a lot
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 07:22:00 UTC
I don't suffer fools lightly.
I also do not suffer armchair experts... lightly or otherwise.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 07:51:12 UTC
You're late to the game. Very late.
We've been at this a long freaking time. You haven't.
All these "ideas" that people propose, we've already been through... a number of times.
Don't you think that the people that do this day in and day out have maybe... I don't know... ALREADY THOUGHT OF THAT?
We did.
A long time ago.
See, people don't like to hear that their special little idea has already been thrown out even before they bring it up.
But that's the gods honest truth.
This is what I'm talking about when I politely inform people that they're not going to be informing me about towing.
It's not that I think I'm "all that"... it's that I've spent more time discussing this shit with people that know what the hell they're talking about then you have time discussing anything about hang gliding at all.
You're late to the game.
Your special little idea's already been discussed... a long long time ago.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 10:11:31 UTC
Oh, btw... before you go there, cuz it is where you're headed... please note the word "Guidelines".
As I said.
Been through this shit a million freaking times.
Please quit trying to educate me about my job.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 17:34:33 UTC
What I do mind is that when there is disagreement, it is generally NOT me that is wrong. Yet people persist in telling me bla bla bla. I don't care if people disagree with me... cuz I know they're wrong. It makes me sad.
Those people can get stuffed... they're wrong.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 08:34:12 UTC
Yeah, I've read that drivel before.
It's a load of shit.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/30 02:16:16 UTC
Look how uppity people got when I even termed people "in the business" "professional pilots".
It's accurate, but some got all offended. They couldn't stand that someone doesn't see their uninformed opinion as holding as much weight as an informed one.
I know a lot of regular joes that do the same... for the same reason. There's a lot of lurkers here that really really do not care to get sucked into the mud.
I can't blame them, I avoid this place on a regular basis.
It's a shame too, cuz there's a lot of really really nice people in HG. Most are.
And all this sewing circle, drama queen bullshit keeps a lot of very informed people away... ya'll miss out on a lot.
The actual "insider" discussions, that you never see, are so much better.
But man oh man, do people not feel the need to even be civil here sometimes.
Have a think about that next time you're off on a tirade.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/30 06:00:14 UTC
Bullocks
If you have no purpose, then don't post.
You do have purpose, you're just not owning up to being called out... again.
Even if you weren't trolling before, you are now.
Get bent.
Bye
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC
Oh how many times I have to hear this stuff.
I've had these exact same arguments for years and years and years.
Nothing about them changes except the new faces spouting them.
See, you don't get to hook up to my plane with whatever you please. Not only am I on the other end of that rope... and you have zero say in my safety margins... I have no desire what so ever to have a pilot smashing himself into the earth on my watch. So yeah, if you show up with some non-standard gear, I won't be towing you. Love it or leave it. I don't care.
Your anecdotal opinion is supposed to sway me?
You forget, every tow flight you take requires a tug pilot... we see EVERY tow.
We know who the rockstars are and who the muppets are.
Do you have any idea how few of us there are?
You think we don't talk?
I'll take our opinion over yours any day of the week.
Ok, I'm tired of this.
I'm not really sure who you're trying to convince.
Again, I don't care to argue this stuff.
I'll answer actual questions if you're keen to actually hear the answers, but arguing with me? Really? Have fun with that.
Gimme a call when you think of something that we haven't already been through years ago... cuz to date, you have yet to come up with anything new. Well, maybe it's new to you I guess. It's old as dirt to me though.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 19:49:08 UTC
This is going to be a bit harsh, but I honestly don't care what you think.
You're not the one making the decisions here.
Jim Rooney - 2011/09/03 07:11:36 UTC
Uh hem... truck towing.
Troll dol dol de dol, gently down the stream.
Merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/11 09:13:01 UTC
Hey Deltaman.
Get fucked.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/11 19:22:18 UTC
Of course not... it's Asshole-ese.
Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!
I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/12 18:00:27 UTC
Your second statement is why.
I just buried my friend and you want me to have a nice little discussion about pure speculation about his accident so that some dude that's got a pet project wants to push his theories?
Deltaman loves his mouth release.
BFD
I get tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want that. I've been doing it for years but unfortunately the peddlers are religious in their beliefs so they find justification any way they can to "prove" their stuff. This is known as "Confirmation Bias"... seeking data to support your theory... it's back-asswards. Guess what? The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/13 19:09:33 UTC
It was already worked out by the time I arrived.
The reason it sticks?
Trail and error.
Every now and then someone comes along with the "new" idea of a stronger weaklink. Eventually, they scare themselves with it and wind up back with one that has a very proven track record. I mean really... no exaggeration... hundreds of thousands of tows.
Say what you will, but if you want to argue with *that* much history, well, you better have one hell of an argument... which you don't.
That's not "religion" my friend.
The shit works. It works in reality and it works consistently. It's not perfect, but Joe-Blow's pet theories have a very high bar to reach before they are given credence.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC
And yes. It is my call. PERIOD.
On tow, I am the PIC.
Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every HG pilot on the planet and I get that.
Absolutely no HG pilot likes hearing it. Not me, not no one. BUT... sorry, that's the way it is.
Accept it and move on.
Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense.
Sorry. It's just the way it is.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/17 00:34:14 UTC
The onus is on YOU.
Not the other way around.
"We" don't need to justify jack.
You want to take pot shots... go for it. I couldn't give a toss.
You don't like my answers... again, get bent.
You're the newbie.
You want to bring in something new?... go for it... it's to YOU to justify it.
It is not to us to justify what we do.
We've been at this a long time and have gone over and over all these little arguments before that you think are "new".
They're new to you.
But they're old hat to "us".
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/17 10:37:47 UTC
I'm not sure who you're arguing with Zack, but it's sure not me... cuz man... you've got some pretty big hangups mate.
You're hear to argue. Plain and simple. I've got better stuff to do.
Go blow smoke somewhere else. I couldn't give a rats ass... I won't be towing you so what do I care?
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/27 09:45:26 UTC
I thought we'd already solved the world's problems... but apparently not.
Do let me know when you've got all this sorted.
Thanks
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC
Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.
Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC
My response is short because I've been saying it for years... and yes, I'm a bit sick of it.
This is a very old horse and has been beaten to death time and time again... by a very vocal minority.
But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)
I have little time for these people.
It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC
The law of the land at comps was 130lb greenspot or you don't tow. Seriously. It was announced before the comp that this would be the policy. Some guys went and made their case to the safety committee and were shut down. So yeah, sorry... suck it up.
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 01:32:20 UTC
Carful who you put stock in mate.
Calling blindrodie a fool? Seriously? Easily discounted?
You may not have an understanding of who you're brushing off... In lieu of some people that have been listening to the rantings of, I kid you not, a convicted pedophile. I'm willing to look past the messenger... To a point. But gimme a break... You're blowing off a tug pilot instead?
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC
Wow...
So you know what happened then?
OMG... thank you for your expert accident analysis. You better fly down to FL and let them know. I'm sure they'll be very thankful to have such a crack expert mind on the case analyzing an accident that you know nothing about. Far better data than the people that were actually there. In short... get fucked.
I'm tired of arguing with crazy.
As I said many times... there are those that listen with the intent of responding... you unfortunately are one.
You've done a great job of convincing me never to tow you.
Thank you for that.
Mission accomplished.
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC
I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties.
Don't like it?
Don't ask me to tow you.
Go troll somewhere else buddy.
I'm over this.
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/06 01:42:41 UTC
Oh god, I've been offensive to people that I hold in contempt.
How will I ever sleep at night?
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/07 18:24:58 UTC
You're the one advocating change here, not me.
I'm fine.
These are only questions if you're advocating change. Which I'm not. You are.
You're the one speculating on Zack's death... not me.
Hell, you've even already come to your conclusions... you've made up your mind and you "know" what happened and what to do about.
It's disgusting and you need to stop.
You weren't there. You don't know.
All you have is the tug pilot report, who himself says he doesn't know... and HE WAS THERE... and he doesn't know.
Go back to Tad's hole in the ground.
While you're there, ask him why he was banned from every east coast flying site.
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/10 05:35:17 UTC
So as much as you want to jump up and down and rave about how it's "Your choice!!!!"... too bad. It's not. You're on my rope.
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/11 02:21:14 UTC
At the end of the day, you've got to convince me, not the other way around.
If I'm not happy with your gear... for whatever reason... too bad.
I can give you a general idea of what I'm happy with and what I'm not, but i'll be damned if you're going to rock up and start demanding that I tow you because this or that. But that's how people that are picking a fight think. They're not looking for understanding, they're pushing their agenda. You are pushing an agenda. Push away pal. I couldn't care less if you like my answers or not.
Great job, USHGA, in establishing a climate and providing channels for civil discussion and actions for enforcing standards for safety and continually moving forward to a better future for free flight.
