landing

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

Jerry Furnell - 2012/01/26 03:58:46 UTC

Thank you for the 'wings level at all costs' answer.

And this wasn't impressed on you at the training hill on Day One because?

I did try to run and catch the wing during a very weak flare in a half hearted attempt to slow it up and ease the pain.

So you didn't have wheels.

Next time I'll concentrate on wings level and yes, I very much need to learn the moon run.

Given any thought to wheels?

I'm glad to see the next question about downslope landings.

There's no such thing as a downslope landing. You don't land until you get to something that starts sloping up again - like a fence or treeline.

In a topless I tried to land in a large paddock and even though I just cleared the downwind fence and then dragged my feet on the ground for the full length of the field (100 meters), it didn't slow the glider to trim and in the end I was forced to flare hard and pay the price with a pretty high tail slide. It hurt, though no damage to the wing.

In retrospect I should have landed tailwind uphill even though it only appeared to be a very gentle slope from the air. My mistake was to give priority to wind direction rather than slope.

Yes.

A training glider would easily have landed on the slight downhill slope, but trying to wash off speed in a topless was foolish.

Something else they should've really impressed upon you when you were flying training gliders.

Of course the first mistake was drifting too low in a weak bubble so that I could no longer reach the safe landing paddock, leaving myself with no other choice than the downslope paddock. Alas, the pressure of competition!

Jim Rooney - 2012/01/26 04:24:32 UTC

Oh god... downslope... yikes.
I'll take nearly anything over downslope
I'm not kidding... I'd rather land tailwind.
Downslope is a bitch.

But, yup... here's an other excellent "the world ain't perfect... what do you do when ____" question.

A lot depends on just how much downslope we're talking about.
A little might be manageable.
A good slope... god I hope you have wheels. In the extreme ones, land crosswind across the slope. If you have time, downwind/uphill tends to be prefereable.

He HAD time.

This is where a good "show stopper" flare comes in handy.
If you can do one, and you know if you can, it will save your butt.

So if he can do one, and knows he can, there's no freakin' way he's gonna blow this one.

If you can't, now's not the time to try.

Yeah, you might not do it as perfectly as the guy who can do one and knows he can.

First, Zen is out.So is the TwoStep/Creshendo

So... a couple things about "Trim +1".
I teach Trim +1 as it's the safer answer... but... IF you've got a strong and agressive flare, you can flare at trim. For that matter, you *can* flare before trim, though I don't recommend it as the penalty for error is extreme.

With Trim+1, "trim" is level flight. You're at the speed that the glider trims out level (in ground effect).
If you're on a slope, when you hit "trim", you will be slower as it's a descending trim.

Yeah, the glider adjusts it's trim speed based upon what the terrain below it is doing. You'll notice that when you're flying uphill the bar will move back and downhill it'll move forward.

So, if your KungFu is strong, get it to trim and flare.

If not... pretend you're Forest Gump and moonwalk the shit out of it... your flare will be slow at first, but will need to accelerate rapidly. The first bits are just to wash off a touch of speed and to unload the glider... but then you want a very aggressive end. Once the ground is taking your weight, the game is outrun the glider... slow it down as much as you can without it lifting you off the ground. Towards the end, this will turn into a flare and will hopefully switch to the glider preventing you from running. If not, at least you'll just be running downhill with a glider trying to fall off your back. If not... I hope you have wheels.

Oh. So a pair of wheels COULD be important with respect to the safety of the glider in an emergency situation.
So you you REQUIRE wheels when you tow gliders? Or do you figure that the mandatory loop of 130 pound Greenspot gives people so much safety margin that their advantages are dwarfed to the point of statistical insignificance?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

Jim Rooney - 2012/01/27 09:20:28 UTC

As for top landing on a spot... ya get the job done and worry about the rest later.
Having the skill to do a textbook landing does not obligate you to doing so.

So you're saying that textbook spot no-steppers are maybe a bit more dangerous than ordinary sane landings?

I'll rant a bit here and say that that's a bit of a roadblock that HG runs into a lot. There's a bit of resistance to techniques like the moonwalk as they're often viewed as some sort of "cop out".

And just when, where, why, how do you think that people in hang gliding start getting that hardwiring?

I can understand where the sentiment comes from, but really, it's just people expressing frustration in feeling that someone is lacking skill and is avoiding learning by using an "easier" technique as a "crutch".
But the thing is... if you've got the skills, but choose a different technique, this is still sometimes viewed badly.

Jayne DePanfilis - 2004/11

When I moved from a flight park to a mountain/ridge soaring site I learned that I had more airtime than most novice pilots who had trained exclusively on a training hill. I was told my flying skills and my ability to set up an approach were better than average.

However, I also learned that my choosing to land on wheels was seen as a negative thing when I was surrounded by mountain pilots at some flying sites. I heard a new term to describe my landing skill: belly landings. I envisioned belly flops, the kind we did in the pool when we were learning how to dive. Those comments hurt.

They shouldn't have. Ya gotta remember that you're in a sport overwhelmingly composed of, controlled by, and catering to total assholes.

It's a tricky thing as each and every situation is different... and some people are indeed avoiding something.

I learned the moonwalk very late in the game. I hadn't even heard of it till I started talking about Trim+1.

How late in the game did you learn to, with each flight, demonstrate a method of establishing that you are hooked in just prior to launch?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4247
Hook in failure in New Zealand

Jim Rooney - 2006/09/24 21:19:29 UTC

There isn't one sure-fire answer.
If there was, we'd all be doing it already. This thread I think makes this obvious... every single thing people have put forth as "the way", someone else has show how it can fail. Every single one. Argue about the details, but every single one fails.

Just kidding.

I learned it so I could talk about it and so I could understand it. I became a big fan in the process.

Here's a neat one to wrap your head around.
The reaction to this was a bit strange when you really think about it.

A while ago, I taught a student... from day one, to land on her wheels with absolutely zero intention of foot landing.
We do this all the time with aerotowing students.
So why not with hill students?

And I mean from day 1.
Yes, even the training hill flights.

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.

Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
06. Beginner Hang Gliding Rating (H-1)
-B. Beginner Rating - Required Witnessed Tasks
-4. Airspeed recognition and control.
-a. Two flights, predetermined to show:
iii. Safe, smooth landing, on feet, into wind.
-b. Two flights, predetermined to show:
iii. Safe, smooth landing, on feet, into wind.

Maybe because the idiot national organization won't allow students to get off of the goddam training hill without doing idiot foot landings?

Wheels wheels wheels wheels.

There are plenty of reasons for this... but the reactions were the most interesting to me.
Not her reactions, this was all she knew... but the reactions of other HG pilots.

Jayne DePanfilis - 2004/11

Well-intentioned pilots have advised me not to land on the wheels because it's dangerous. Their thought is that it is much worse to remain prone with my head close to the ground - but in control - than it is to be in an upright position, with considerably less control. This just didn't make sense to me considering where and when I choose to fly. Clearly we were considering the concept of landing on wheels from two different perspectives.

See, I've grown to like a saying in flying... "You've got the rest of your life to figure this sh*t out".

http://ozreport.com/14.129
Packsaddle accident report

Shane Nestle - 2010/06/30 13:01:28 UTC

Being that John was still very new to flying in the prone position, I believe that he was likely not shifting his weight, but simply turning his body in the direction he wanted to turn. It was also supported by Dan's observations.

Not if you get killed 'cause your idiot instructor is more concerned about you landing on your feet than he is about you learning to fly.

How often this is forgotten.
I mean really, what's the blessed rush?

As a student, she was only going to be landing in a gigantic, manicured field for a long long time.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=5089
The Good-The Bad-The Ugly....

Socrates Zayas - 2008/01/14 05:22:38 UTC

When I got there her nose was lacerated and her lip was bleeding (yeah, she had a full face helmet) and the dolly's left wheel was missing.

The radiography showed acute multiple fractures around the top and head of the humerus. Her nose didn't break but she may have hairline fractures to the septum. She had a hard time remembering the date, day, names of her kids, number of kids, and other basic things...

The dolly had hit a huge hole and she went left shoulder into the ground at 25+ mph.

Guess she doesn't fly at Florida Ridge too often.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=8719
Bad Aerotow Launch

Scott C. Wise - 2008/09/30 23:29:30 UTC

I've still got a problem with that "bump".

This is an active flight park. Don't they do anything to maintain their grounds? I've been at any number of small airports with grass strips and they are flat and level with no holes and no bumps. Somebody actually spends time "grooming" the area - for obvious and serious safety reasons.

How the heck does an aerotow park get off NOT doing a similar or better job? !!!!!quote]

Axel Banchero - 2008/10/01 04:04:47 UTC

Yes, this is the Florida Ridge. Where Doc's wife got hurt after hitting a bump or something like that. I also heard another story with broken bones at the same place in a situation pretty much like mine.quote]

Jim Rooney - 2008/10/02 02:26:20 UTC

Scott... what's with the rant?

A) This way over the top stuff does no good
B) You're kinda off base anyway

You got a personal beef with the ridge or something? Cuz that's the vibe I'm getting here. I really can't fathom an other reason for the hyperbolic ravings.

Sheesh

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

So what's the bother?
Learn to fly.
Learn to not smash into the earth.
THEN, learn the hardest and most critical skill AFTER you're good at the rest.

And what if you don't learn to do these stupid, dangerous, mostly useless stunts at all?

How much easier is it to learn to land after you're good at flying?

I'm not sure it's any easier whatsoever. I think there's a lot of evidence that almost Hang Twos who do a couple dozen training hill flights a weekend are a lot less likely to bonk a landing than a Hang Four or Five who gets six hours of airtime a weekend.

How much easier is it to learn to footlaunch after you're good at flying? I love teaching aerotow pilots how to footlaunch... it's piss easy.
Same thing with teaching aerotow students how to footland.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year.

Especially when they're using Questlinks which increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.

So I figured I'd teach her how to fly first.

The Press - 2006/03/15

However, he took off without attaching himself.
In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.
Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.

Better teach her how to fly before you take her up for foot launch tandem as well.

Then I'd teach her how to footland.
Why not? It's not like she's going XC till she's no longer a student.

1. What percentage of pilots who've graduated to a Three or above ever fly XC?

2. What percentage of flights of people who've flown XC *ARE* XC?

3. What percentage of XC flights come down in country so hostile that the pilot is more likely to get hurt wheel landing than foot - or attempted foot - landing?

4. What percentage of XC flights are made over country so hostile that the pilot can't find a hundred feet of wheel friendly terrain to save his life?

Yet there is so much resistance to this idea.
Strange.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3173
somewhat predictable accident at Highland

JD Guillemette - 2008/04/17 16:38:50 UTC

Tad is now the advocate for wheels, this from the man who is concerned about the drag from an aerotow release.quote]

Jim Rooney - 2008/04/18 11:40:20 UTC

BWA HAHAHAHAAHA!

Remember... you've got the rest of your life to figure this sh*t out.

1996/04/28 - Frank Sauber - 68 - Taylor Farm training hill - Fredericksburg, Virginia - Pacific Airwave Formula 144
-- Lockout on stationary winch tow
-- Novice rating for seven years, in the sport for 17 years but "still low airtime," prior towing experience and a tow signoff for payout winch.
-- Massive internal
-- Keel, kingpost, leading edges, nose plate, crossbar, battens, downtube, sail

The victim and tow operator were doing some towing using an experimental motorcycle engine as a stationary winch, with a launch dolly. In light conditions, the operator and victim planned to practice landings by towing to 200 feet and then releasing.

On the second tow a three-string release was used. The pilot also said that he wanted to remain lower. "At fifty feet Frank got into a left turn for reasons unknown. The operator thinks that Frank may have been reaching for the release. The turn went uncorrected until Frank was 180 degrees from his original flight path."

The glider impacted the ground nose first.

Not if, after doing fine with very little but wheel landings at dune, training hill, mountain, and tow sites for seventeen years you get killed practicing fucking standup landings for the fucking Three fucking USHGA forces you to get to launch unsupervised from the sites that you've been flying the past six and a half years doing unsupervised wheel landings just fine.

Robert Seckold - 2012/01/27 10:40:23 UTC

Well said Jim, I can spot land if I want to, hell I can even land on one foot if I want to. Early on I bought into the notion that unless you are doing a no step landing every time your not good enough.

For me though, it is landing the easiest way I can and if that means running the landing out, who cares. I learned very early on NOTHING spoils a good flight more than a bad landing. Sure learn how to land properly, on wheels, trim +1, running out, moon walk, who cares as long as your flight ends with a smile on your face.

George Stebbins - 2012/01/27 16:05:22 UTC

This is just what Joe Greblo has been saying about the moonwalk. Teach them the easy way to land first, then after they've got flying and landing safely figured out, teach them the hard way. Yes, they can't use the moonwalk everywhere.

Tell ya what. If people are landing places in which they can't safely run out a landing then they shouldn't be.

But they can use it in the flying sites where they are learning as students. Why make it harder than it already is? Don't we learn to crawl before walking? Don't we learn to walk before running? Don't we learn to run before flying?

I like Jim's quote: "You've got the rest of your life to figure this sh*t out."

Remember Frank, George?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7671
Gallery Of Pain

Christopher LeFay - 2012/01/16 05:37:48 UTC

Just as when launching, an upright posture allows for far more authoritative roll input when it is most critical - next to the ground. The posture also positions the critical parts of one's body further from initial impact, allowing energy to be dissipated by air-frame and limbs before head and spine have to pay the debt of gravity.

Tad Eareckson - 2012/01/20 17:59:58 UTC

Bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zzMbdtOhAk
Before and After
Sparkozoid - 2011/11/27
dead
14-00725
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/14423696873_f1326e2320_o.png


1. The posture also positions the person's hands on the downtubes such that if the glider comes to an abrupt stop before you can get your hands cleared you can expect to be looking into other hobbies for a while.

2. These arguments about control being enhanced by being upright are bullshit rationalizations - PERIOD. Nobody at ANY altitude under ANY level of comfort or stress EVER rotates to vertical to get better control of the glider.

3. The ONLY time anybody ever rotates to vertical - or tries to - in an emergency is when no further control of the glider is possible and impact is inevitable and imminent.

4. In reality, the precise opposite happens. If a pilot is vertical - say shortly after launch - when the shit hits the fan he rotates to prone, stuffs the bar, and starts making the glider go where he wants it to - to the benefit of both.

5. You have LESS control authority upright than prone thus you are MORE likely to crash upright than prone.

6. WHEN you crash because you've diminished your control authority by being upright instead of prone it's a virtual certainty that you will immediately ROTATE to prone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkElZMhpmp0


7. Now you not only have the more important and less robust parts of your body forward but you have them forward AFTER converting that potential energy you imparted to them by rotating them up around your center of gravity to kinetic rotational energy with your feet as the pivot point.

8. Think of it this way...

Snow day. School's out. Which ten year old kid is more likely to get a concussion and/or broken arm speeding down the slope on his Flexible Flyer?

- A. The one proned out with both hands directly on the basetube - head and arms under a foot from the frozen surface and foremost.

or

- B. The one standing up on the deck controlling the basetube with a length of clothesline connected to its ends - head and arms well and safely separated from the frozen surface by the height of his body and oriented away from hazards below and in the direction of travel.

Bonus question...

How come there are virtually no ten year old kids who need to have shit this fucking obvious explained to them and virtually all glider divers are totally incapable of getting the slightest grasp on this concept no matter how many decades worth of broken arms and necks they hear about, see, and experience?

Jayne DePanfilis - 2004/11

Many pilots (who had not learned how to land on wheels properly, who had not refined this special skill) made me feel like I hadn't learned a legitimate landing technique. I knew differently. I seldom dragged my belly. The front of my harness was pretty clean for a pilot who lands on wheels. Pilots who watched me land on the wheels time and time again should have been able to see that this was a skill and not just the "sissy" way out. After all, I had learned to land on my feet, and on a rare occasion or two I demonstrated this skill as well.

But on these occasions I walked off the field with this thought: I have more control over the glider when I remain prone during the approach and landing than I do attempting to fly from the downtubes in an upright position.

Well-intentioned pilots have advised me not to land on the wheels because it's dangerous. Their thought is that it is much worse to remain prone with my head close to the ground - but in control - than it is to be in an upright position, with considerably less control. This just didn't make sense to me considering where and when I choose to fly. Clearly we were considering the concept of landing on wheels from two different perspectives.

For me, landing on wheels is second nature; it is a skill I've learned and practiced over and over again. But to the pilots who were concerned about me, it appeared that I was relying on a landing technique that was supposed to be reserved for potentially bad situations, like downwind landings. Theirs was a heartfelt concern - they didn't want to see me injure my head or neck doing one of these wheel landings.

Pilots may have more control over the glider when they don't transition from prone position to the uprights during the approach and landing. Some pilots maintain better airspeed this way because they can "pull in" farther than they can when flying from the downtubes. A pilot who doesn't need to transition to the downtubes during approach won't stall the glider during that moment of transition.

Pilots who intentionally land on wheels after almost every flight have in most cases decided this is the safest landing technique for them. They know their head is closer to the ground. They also know that there are other more important factors influencing their choice.

Sorry 'bout the reruns but look at the similarities in the arguments/logic and think about the evidence/data.

Also think about how much impact this has had on instruction, practice, and policy and the price the sport and the people in it have paid and are paying by remaining virtually immune from any effect of the arguments, logic, evidence, or data.

Absolutely astounding when you find that even somebody of Rooney's caliber is capable of partially getting this.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

NMERider - 2012/01/31 07:21:50 UTC

I have been making an effort to learn and apply Jim's Trim + 1 technique. Here is Monday's example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLWXxdfUSVg
A Trim + 1 Landing
SHGAHG - 2012/01/30
dead

When I was doing the edit I noticed that the actual time between trim and flare was two seconds and I was skimming up the gentle slope of the Sylmar LZ runway. Nevertheless, it was for all intents and purposes a Trim + 1 landing. Trim speed relative to stall speed and energy retention obviously vary from one glider to the next. In the future I will try to get my palms all the way open and see if I can go hands-off for a moment to establish the so-called trim while in ground effect. The technique does require something akin to a 'letting go' or a leap of faith but it does seem to work for me as a 'technique' and not as a 'feel'.

Cheers, Jonathan

Good job, Jonathan!

Shame to have wasted a landing like that on an extremely wheels friendly, smooth, groomed, short grass landing strip when you had a nice narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place RIGHT THERE.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=23199
Santa Cruz Flats Race Day 1 & 2 - Video

NMERider - 2011/09/21 00:37:09 UTC

I dislike having anything in my field of view when I'm flying other than my instrument pod. That goes for bar mitts as well as wheels. I just don't want them.

And since this DID seem to work for you as a 'technique' and not as a 'feel' I can't IMAGINE that you'd EVER be in a situation in which the benefit of having anything in the way of wheels on your glider could possibly offset the downside of the clutter to your view they'd cause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zzMbdtOhAk
Before and After
Sparkozoid - 2011/11/27
dead
14-00725
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/14423696873_f1326e2320_o.png


I mean it's not like you're some Sparky caliber loser capable of screwing up on his flare once or twice every few thousand landings.

And I like the way you were upright on the downtubes for a solid three seconds prior to flare such that you had adequate roll authority for the duration of that window. But I am just a little confused about why you didn't go upright on downwind. That would've made it so much easier to turn onto base and final. You did OK as it was but I thought the turns were just a bit on the anemic side.

Nice launch too! From that camera angle it was hard to tell it wasn't Rooney himself! You UNDOUBTEDLY did a hang check behind launch and made sure you had your legs through the loops, good clearance, and your helmet buckled well before the camera started rolling - so what would've been the point in doing a hook-in check just prior to launch?

And I LOVE that "Hook In!" doormat at launch position. Every time you launch you see it right there and the message thus gets reinforced over and over again. The more times you launch the less likely you are to go off unhooked. Pure genius! Did you guys come up with that all by yourselves or did Sam have something to do with it? I can certainly see why none of you assholes would ever consider doing or requiring hook-in checks at Kagel. Think of all the ugly incidents we could prevent if we had these mats at ALL our launches!

And the way you thank your launch assistant the INSTANT before you commit to launch? Just super! I can't think of anything more important to be doing or thinking about at that moment.

Thank you, Jim Rooney. I did it precisely Trim Plus One. It worked like a charm. I hope it came out on the video. Thank you very much, Jim.

Yeah, it came out great on the video. You can even see the windsock wafting around as the wind down the runway surges from two to three miles per hour. The problem is that there's not all that much that - when reasonably well executed - DOESN'T work like a charm in benign conditions. So just just don't expect these various flavors of standup landing techniques to always work like charms in challenging conditions - let alone worst case scenarios - and THINK just a little bit...

Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...

...about the safest and easiest way to CONSISTENTLY land a hang glider.

Anyway Jonathan... Looks like you've got the Rooney hang check down so you can stop worrying about launching unhooked, your Rooney landing technique is totally solid, and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTa6XL16i0U
SCFR Day 2 Highlights
LAGlide - 2011/09/20
dead
021-02800
http://live.staticflickr.com/3848/14609177375_f8c224836d_o.png


http://live.staticflickr.com/5529/14422573378_5385a9a99a_o.png
057-03703

...you're using Rooney Links to increase the safety of the towing operation - PERIOD. What challenges in this sport could possibly lie ahead for you to keep you from going absolutely mad with boredom?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929
Training Manual Comments / Contribution

Bill Cummings - 2012/01/31 00:40:33 UTC

My 2004 Sport II still has it's original down tubes so I would say that my landings are all mostly very good. With thousands of flights I had figured out along the way how to land but years back I stupidly read some articles about how to land. I immediately employed this new technique and started a long series of crash landings.

I said the heck with this and decided to quit thinking about it and just flare when it felt right like I had been doing before reading the landing article.
Once again I was landing like I knew what I was doing.

With this latest tutorial from Jim Rooney on the web I decided to try his strongest suggested method the "Trim + 1" (Let speed bleed off until trim, wait one second and then flare like you mean it.)

Remembering how things went the last time I read up on landing techniques I was a little concerned since nothing was broke so why try and fix how I land. I put my faith in Jim and said to myself, "Okay, I'll try this and maybe I'll find that his way of thinking about landing is what I've been doing just from muscle memory all along." I thought about the "Trim + 1" as I was landing yesterday and it worked like a champ.

Thanks to Jim I can now put into words for other pilots what it is that I was doing all along to make it work. During turbulent days in the LZ you can expect to look a little sloppy even though you did everything right except wait for a better day.

1. Yeah Bill...

The Press - 2006/03/15

However, he took off without attaching himself.
In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.
Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.

...how could anyone ever possibly go wrong putting his - or her - faith in Jim?

2. What's "a little sloppy" mean?

- Is a little sloppy ever enough to break a downtube and/or arm?

- Is the sloppiness proportional to the severity of the turbulence?

- Do we tend to see conventional aircraft, sailplanes, and/or tandem hang gliders coming in on wheels landing a little sloppily in turbulence when they're doing everything right?

3. Unless you're really into mind numbing ridge lift - which, generally speaking, isn't an option for tow operations anyway - a turbulent day IS a better day.

And on 2003/10/13 I was landing at Ridgely with the windsock switching around all over the place and a dust devil breaking off nearby. I had Finsterwalder pneumatic wheels on my basetube and was upright, skimming low, and - given that I WAS upright - doing everything right. Then the glider just fell the last eight inches and went sideways and I folded a downtube.

Maybe I'd have folded the downtube anyway had I been prone going for a wheel landing but I one hundred percent guarantee you that being upright wasn't doing shit for my odds.

[Tad Eareckson]

P.S.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929
Training Manual Comments / Contribution

Bill Cummings - 2012/01/31 00:40:33 UTC

My 2004 Sport II still has it's original down tubes so I would say that my landings are all mostly very good. With thousands of flights I had figured out along the way how to land but years back I stupidly read some articles about how to land. I immediately employed this new technique and started a long series of crash landings.

Did you happen to read the 2004/11 Jayne DePanfilis "Wheel Landings" article?
If so, what did you think about it and what results did you get upon employing the new technique? Just kidding.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

Jim Rooney - 2012/01/31 19:49:46 UTC

I like how Sunny puts it...
Your flare is like the brakes.
If the ground is rushing by, slam on the brakes.
If it's going by slowly, then maybe just tap them.

Yeah, well like I said... I've seen ol' Sunny slam on the brakes a little too soon before and the results weren't all that pretty. But - funny thing - I've never seen him come anywhere the least bit close to fucking up a tandem landing.

People don't have (much) problem "landing" in wind... cuz you're not "landing"... you're flying to the ground.

You mean the way everybody else does in REAL aviation and a few smart people do in hang gliding?

You are able to approach the ground at a comfortable speed, both horizontally and vertically.

I'm not noticing the Dragonfly drivers being particularly uncomfortable with THEIR horizontal speeds when they're approaching the ground in no wind.

When you can, it's all honkey dorey.
Instinct lines up with reality.

As opposed to landing in no wind... you are not able to slow to a "this won't hurt" speed, and even trying to do so makes your landing go worse.

As opposed to just flying it to the ground and letting it land on the wheels whenever it feels like it.

[miguel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRBrbE49aIg


Seems like he would fly out of the lift band to land. Maybe there is crashing surf to camera left.

[Tad Eareckson]

Almost certainly. Having on one occasion been in chest deep swells with several thousand pounds of water determining what my wing was gonna do next I'd be sorely tempted to crash it downwind rather than take a chance of getting my ankles wet in a situation like that.

1984/03/03 - Garth Beatty - 28 - Intermediate - Pro-Star - Marina, California

Flying at beach with limited landing area (second flight on new glider). Misjudged and landed in surf, landed in knee-deep water. Set glider down and unclipped. Surf flattened glider and despite spectators trying to pull glider out, surf took glider and tangled pilot out to sea.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26517
Upcoming shoulder surgery

Davis Straub - 2012/02/01 19:49:54 UTC
Cathedral City, California

Next Monday or the Monday after

I experienced a full tear of the tendon on September 22nd at the Santa Cruz Flats Race after I tripped while running out a landing on the third to last day.
After a continuing thread of poor decisions I'm finally setup for surgery on my shoulder for next Monday (February 6th) or the Monday after (February 13th) depending on getting approval from Florida Blue Cross/Blue Shield in a timely manner. The arthroscopic surgery will include:
1) Tying the tendon back to the bone.
2) Cutting attachment points that have developed after the injury in the muscles (unfreezing the shoulder).
3) Clearing out some arthritis that has developed over the years from injuries forty years ago.
It will be out patient surgery and I should be back home right after the surgery.
The surgeon characterized the tear as small (even though it was full) as I tore only one tendon. He does five or six of these surgeries every Monday. I have the most common tear.
It will take three months for the tendon to tie back to the bone. It is my understanding that rehab work has to wait for three months, but Larry Bunner (who got the surgery almost two months ago) seems to be doing rehabilitation. This means that I won't be flying in the Spring competitions, but my plan is to go to Florida, attend the competitions and perhaps act as meet director.
I hope to be able to fly in the July competitions and the SCFR in September in order to keep my position on the US National team in order to go to the Worlds in January in Australia. We'll see how that goes.

1. On which of your good buddy Rooney's three hundred pages worth of foot landing procedures were you a little wanting on that landing?

2. How many of your landings have been in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place or fields filled with seven foot high corn which required you to stay on your feet?

3. How many of the unnecessary foot landings would it take to accumulate enough satisfaction to compensate for the downsides of that one minor pooch screw?

4. And how did Larry rip up HIS shoulder?