This ... (and most of your other diversions) belongs in an "All about Tad" topic and not in the "Breaking USHPA's Monopoly" topic.
- Topics tend to be what the participants make of them. And the less one posts and responds the less influence one tends to have on content and direction.
- There's a saying that "All politics are local." And I've been trying to get the point across to you that, in my estimation, you're extremely unlikely to put much more of a dent in u$hPa's Monopoly Control than you already have 'cause there's zilch interest in doing anything outside of SoCal - and precious little inside it.
1631 posts on the "Weak links" thread - which is primarily concerned with aero.
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03
NEVER CUT THE POWER...
Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually
We're STILL not anywhere near back up to the common fucking sense / no-brainer level we were around four and a half decades ago and where sailplanes have been since the beginning of time.
We have all the firepower we were ever gonna get on this issue close to the dawn of this forum and the same is true regarding this effort of yours.
Oops, I forgot that every topic on KiteStrings is an "All About Tad" topic.
Bull fucking shit, Bob. We've got close to ten and a half thousand posts here, you haven't read them all, that claim isn't being made by anyone else, and the words of the motherfuckers who've been banned or no way in hell would ever be admitted here get ten times the airplay they do at their points of origin.
You have a wire connected at Sylmar. Who's sabotaging your effort there? Anything stopping you from presenting your case at Crestline or Funston? How 'bout my old Capitol club from which I was suspended for three months close to nine years ago for making major progress in kicking Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's sleazy ass to a pulp? What's so important about Tad's Hole In The Ground and if every topic on KiteStrings is an "All About Tad" topic then why did you bother coming here in the first place?
bobk wrote:I am posting to KiteStrings because this is a time for us to put aside our differences and work together on spreading this message to all corners of the hang gliding community.
Let me fix that for you, Bob.
We are posting to Kite Strings because this is a time for us to put aside my differences and work together on spreading this message to all corners of the hang gliding community.
And if Bob would spell "Kite Strings" as the two words they are in dictionaries and as they appear at the top on any public or member accessible page (like this one, for instance) on the site that would be one less difference to worry about. (Notice the way Bob gets all rabid about a vowel with respect to the spelling of Jonathan's unnecessary last name but apparently spaces don'tcountforanythingwherecorrectspellingisconcerned.
A couple of longish phone calls from Bob last night...
Bob CAN'T post at Crestline and Funston (I might have known that at some point) and I used his correction to reinforce my position on the dynamics of the culture. Start scoring points on u$hPa, its cult, ANY of its Sacred Cows and you're gonna get your wire cut. And no further mention of your name...
...will be permitted - save for in the context of some unopposed bashing here and there for a couple years.
The patterns are stunningly consistent and blindingly obvious. There's a clear model for how things work in US hang gliding and one can and must use it for making ironclad safe predictions.
Team Bob scored a beachhead victory on a tiny stretch of beach under a very special set of circumstances with a lot of time and effort from several individuals. This is NOT a D-Day landing. There aren't any armies lined up offshore poised to swarm in and bash their ways in to Colorado Springs and beyond to the Highland Aerosports ghost town of Ridgely, Maryland. A lot closer to being a Bay of Pigs.
And there's another model with stunningly consistent and blindingly obvious we need to be looking at and understanding. Commercial interests started controlling this sport on Day Two and the primary objective of a commercial hang gliding interest is to shield itself from liability for criminal negligence. And the best way to do that is to:
- make the shoddiest procedures and equipment possible under the most benign of circumstances Industry Standard
- obscure to the greatest extent possible all the factors leading to all splatterings
- hand total control of the sport to a non pilot scumbag corporate lawyer
And with that model in place it's a no brainer to predict the extinction of nearly all vestiges of competent hang gliding, which we've already seen, and the sport itself, which we're seeing now. Just like Global Warming - only total fucking morons are in denial of either of these now.
Another point... I've seen NO evidence of hang gliding taking place at Dockweiler - or Exit 116.
Hang gliding is flying an HGMA or equivalent certified or certifiable glider in certifiable configuration (which includes hook-in weight range). No hang glider has ever been certified for flying:
- seated
- supine
- suprone
- upright
- with one or two hands on the downtubes
- one handed
is hang gliding - 'cause the 30/60 pitch/roll limitations are meaningless, arbitrary, ass-covering bullshit that NOBODY adheres to or takes seriously. That glider is flying under safe certifiable control with safe airspeed / angle of attack, G loading.
Your gliders ARE designed (partially anyway) and INTENDED (fully) to be towed - despite your perennial bullshit disclaimer. And too bad that you leave the job of completing the engineering, certification, manufacturing, distribution to third party volunteers who you allow to be shut down and pissed all over for their efforts.
is all u$hPa/Industry sponsored fringe activity - not hang gliding. What your gliders AREN'T - and CAN'T BE - designed and certified for:
- safe landings with perfect executed no-steppers:
-- on old Frisbees in middles of LZs
-- in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place
- being pulled straight forward by ropes connected to the "pilot" but not the glider
- politely pausing during lockouts to give "pilots" safe windows in which they can actuate their easily reachable releases
- recovering from the inconvenience stalls afforded by Infallible Weak Links before:
-- the ground arrives
-- the glider's set on an irreversible path to an inconvenience tumble
-- both of the above
- being piloted by incompetent pilots operating out of their depths
Decertifies the glider, is a high danger / control compromised window but we can let it slide 'cause:
- it opens up otherwise unavailable and valuable recreational flying resources
- unlike the other end of the flight, launching is always optional and we can:
-- pick our window with respect to conditions
-- often utilize crew to augment pitch and/or roll control when we're most vulnerable
- the compromise need and should last no more than three seconds
I hooked up the weak link (220 lbs) and next the release that is on the tow bridle.
No SANE COMPETENT PILOT - including little girl sane competent pilots *EVER* uses a 220 pound (towline) weak link. 220 pound weak links are used ONLY by incompetent morons who:
- know they're going up with "releases" which WILL BE 100.0 percent useless in emergency situations
- expect their 220 pound weak links to:
-- anticipate lockout progressions and overly steep climbs and terminate the tows while the glider is still safely controllable
-- hold fast when their lives are dependent upon maintenance and/or increase of thrust
This is NOT hang gliding and if he were aerotowing with that weak link it wouldn't even be a near legal fringe activity. Nobody interested in actual hang gliding has any business being anywhere NEAR this asshole.
Got the memo from what recognized authority, Bob? Mark G. Forbes? Or all the way up to the top? Timothy Herr?
What was it you didn't like about mine? So far I haven't heard any specific objection from you or anybody else.
What's the current Bob Show working definition? I checked and couldn't find anything. And you obviously don't have one anywhere or you'd have presented it already to show what was wrong with mine. Do paragliders and the Easy Flyer make it under the wire? Anything stopping the only Bob Show member with a vote that actually counts for anything writing one - YESTERDAY?
Here's u$hPa's current joke of a mission statement:
USHPA's mission is to ensure the future of free flight.
Mission Statement
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association (USHPA) will pursue its mission through:
A. Advocacy. USHPA will interact, proactively when possible and reactively when required, with agencies, organizations and individuals whose interests affect our sport.
B. Communication. Externally, USHPA will advance the positive awareness of hang gliding and paragliding among the non-flying public. Internally, the organization will cultivate a culture of communication and transparency.
C. Community. USHPA will promote a sense of community among members both locally and nationally.
D. Flying sites. USHPA will support the development of new flying sites and the preservation of existing sites.
E. Learning. USHPA will support learning, in part by providing an organizational framework for instructor and pilot training and certification.
F. Safety. USHPA will steadily foster a culture of safety.
What's the difference between a hang and a para glider?
Oh, I've heard the "everything we do is an experiment" line before.
The trouble is, it's not.
I've seen experimentation with towing gear more than anything else in HG.
I've not seen many go out and try to build their own sails for example. When someone does, they're very quickly "shown the light" by the community. Example... the guy that was building the PVC glider in California somewhere.
But for some reason, towing gear is exempt from this.
The difference is what we do has been done by thousands of people already. It's been tested... a lot.
What we do is free of the experimentation part.
It's still dangerous, but not at the level of building new gear is. Not even close.
That's what people fail to realize.
It's no small difference. It's a huge chasm.
Notice how I'm not saying to not do it.
Go forth and experiment. That's great... that's how we improve things.
I'm just warning you of that chasm.
A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????
Approach it for what it is... completely untested and very experimental gear which will likely fail in new and unforseen ways as it tries it's damndest to kill you... and then we can talk.
...that guy that was building the PVC glider in California somewhere? You know the one I mean - the one your community showed the light.
Let's say the community HADN'T shown him the light and he showed up at Glacier Point where you had just broken u$hPa's Monopoly Control. Does he get to make his test flight? And if he does what do you think the flying opportunities for all the guys lined up behind him with HGMA certified gliders will be for the rest of that morning?
What do you tell the public officials regulating public flying / potential flying sites regarding hang glider identification? And note then whenever a paraglider splatters himself the press invariably identifies him as a hang glider and uses a stock photo of same for illustration.
While you're squirming and trying to figure out how to dodge this issue I'm gonna add another parameter to the Kite Strings definition of a hang glider: single place only. And each hour of tandem training a student candidate has logged will need to be erased by two hours of solo/actual hang gliding. (I know this will be a major pain for anyone who shows up with ONLY tandem "training" but... Good.)
And just to expand on, clarify a previously defined point... While looping a glider can be and often is miles safer than attempting to fly one within placard in violent thermal conditions, hang gliders are and can not be certified for safely landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place - or practicing for same in Happy Acres putting greens.
This is a real lightbulb moment for me.
- A million years ago USHGA had a bullshit definition of a hang glider that was something like an aircraft capable of being launched and landed by foot alone. And that opened the door to paragliders when they emerged on the scene. And we all know how that went.
- And now the Forces of Darkness have erased the definition of a hang glider without anybody noticing. And up until this point we've been operating on the presumption that there is one. And now that we have something u$hPa and the Bob, Jack, Davis... Shows have a serious new problem with which to deal.
Your move, Bob. Or don't you care just as long as anybody clipped into something while waiting in the launch line while the Rooney Linkers are being rewarded with free priority relights as the soaring window evaporates has some kind of helmet securely buckled on?
US hang gliders were ORIGINALLY restricted to solo only by FAA regs for "ultralight vehicles". Then the commercial interests (u$hPa) with ZILCH in the way of evidence, data, logical scenarios sold the criminally negligent motherfuckers at the FAA the scam that hang gliding needed a tandem exemption to stem the weekly slaughter we were reaping from the solo only holocaust.
And they got it and two and half seconds later they started raking in the bucks from bucket listers doing the tandem thrill rides like:
And now that we've had several decades worth of this bullshit running alongside solo-only:
- Ever hear u$hPa or any of its operatives say, "Boy. If only he/she had gotten some good tandem training! What a needless waste."?
- Any scrap of data, case study, halfway legitimate argument regarding the usefulness of tandem?
And even if it existed they wouldn't be able to use it 'cause it would open up solo-only disasters to charges of negligence.
C'mon Bob. Still waiting for you to try to punch a hole in something in my increasingly strict definition of hang gliding and thereby alienate fifteen or twenty percent of your potential support base.
Let's also say no rigids - for reasons pretty much opposite of the crap "we"'ve excluded so far.
You're adding articulating control surfaces, structure, weight, complexity, expense and killing portability and ease of setup/breakdown. You're getting better performance and control authority and morphing into a sailplane.
A hang glider has gotta fold and roll up into a tube one person in reasonable shape can toss onto the roof racks and strap down plus one backpackable harness bag.
On the phone Saturday night you referenced the kinda thing Bill and Robin were doing at Exit 116 as viable option for a Joe Glider to participate in hang gliding for thems what didn't wanna be under the thumb of u$hPa and its operatives. "Couple guys, glider, car with a trailer hitch, few hundred feet of rope, half mile stretch of straight road..." And I BRIEFLY attempted to explain to you why that was absolute rubbish and what was needed to support viable sustainable hang gliding in the REAL world.
What Bill and Robin were doing was shoddy, incompetent, zilch safety margin fringe activity. Surface based static towing, which is the Yank description of what they were/are doing, is outlawed in the UK - for pretty good reasons. And foot launch and Bill's an incompetent moron on top of all that.
To BEGIN to describe what's wrong with that operation would take a substantial book. So let's get started...
And let's get started with the captions from the two videos I spent more time than I care to remember transcribing. Problematic areas are in red.
0:02 - Static Tow near I-10, Exit 116, NM - Oct. 27, 2016
0:08 - Skyting Tow. - Pilot, Bill Cummings. - Tow Driver, Robin Hastings. - 1,600' of towline.
0:20 - Only one vehicle came by while we were here.
0:29 - The whole tow I will be on constant transmit.
1:02 - Short tow road so only about 500' of towing.
1:10 - This is the 4th flight. The first three were sled rides and we forgot to start the GoPro3 white.
1:21 - Bill found a thermal this flight and totaled up 37 minutes of air time, tow and free flight. (one min. tow) 1:34 - Getting ready to release the towline.
1:48 - Hey! Released in a thermal!
2:09 - < Exit 116 2:24 - Next, gather up the bridle for landing. Stepping on it will trip a pilot while running.
2:49 - This tow road is 25 miles from home.
3:40 - Heading south right now. The road is SE & NW. - Flying a Falcon 195'
4:24 - Made it to 3,650' AGL. Now test hands off speed and for turns.
4:44 - Well -Huh! Pilot is crooked. But the glider flies straight
4:51 - The hands off airspeed is 22 mph, Mike. 4:57 - Mike owns the left wing.
5:01 - I own the right wing.
5:05 - Spot a Red tail hawk thermaling. 5:15 - He will show me the best place to thermal up.
5:27 - Now he's right off Mike's wing tip. He's trying to get behind me for attack mode.
5:35 - Not gonna happen fella -- I'll get behind you!
5:48 - It Happened! He got behind and above me. That was fast!
8:59 - Waiting for the impact! I'll tighten all my muscles so he has a tough time getting a big bite!
6:11 - The suspense is killing me! Where is he?
6:24 - Okay! You can have the thermal -- I'm outta here.
6:32 - We have jumped ahead for the landing.
6:38 - The landing zone is back of my toes 6:49 - Robin radio's up that it is light but this is a big 195' Falcon. I should be okay.
7:02 - I hope!
8:11 - Not too shabby for 67 year old pilot huh?
00:02 - Reel of 1,600' of tow line > - for static towing. (ST)
00:10 - Robin will pull ahead, stop, and hook up to the tow line.
00:58 - It will take a few minutes to lay out the tow line.
01:07 - If Robin can't hear me for any more than three seconds he will stop.
01:26 - Robin stops at the crosswind stake that is pounded into the ground. He will drape the tow line on the up wind side of the stake.
01:34 - There is a left crosswind to the tow road. I'll take of toward the stake, into the wind.
01:44 - The stake is near the flag. As I leave the ground the rope will slip up and off the crosswind stake.
03:02 - I hooked up the weak link (220 lbs) and next the release that is on the tow bridle.
03:16 - Next release the nose tie down. 03:29 - It's tough with only a two person operation and not near as safe as a three person.
04:14 - Check behind for traffic. 05:12 - The driver will stop if no commands are heard within three seconds.
05:44 - The crosswind blew the line into a bush. It stripped clear so I won't release.
05:56 - The site is Exit 116, I-10 New Mexico (USA)
06:05 - We only have 0.5 mile to tow on this section of the road. Good for 500' Alt.
06:16 - Average time on the tow line is 57 sec.
06:27 - This is a practice day and not an XC (Cross country) day.
06:37 - Not using a pressure gauge only, - PILOT IN COMMAND.
06:46 - This is not a method for students but only experienced tow pilots.
07:44 - Robin will bring my end of the tow line and hook my tow bridle to it.
07:58 - Pilot is ready except for the tie down on the nose of the glider.
10:51 - 560'
11:15 - Hey! There is a little bit of lift somewhere. Did you hear the vairo tweeting? 11:26 - Let's search it out while Robin is tending to the tow line recovery.
11:49 - The chirping vario is on the GoPro. The lower pitched vario you will only hear when I am transmitting on the radio.
12:32 - I've drifted back over the take off point. 12:49 - Flight time for this 2nd tow is 6 minutes.
12:58 - I was only able to gain 130' more after releasing from the tow line. 13:11 - Oh well, the plan is to practice locally.
14:24 - LZ 14:44 - < Robin is back with the tow line.
16:11 - All hooked up for flight #3 but due to problems this flight will only be 16 seconds long.
16:32 - I'll choke up on the release cord again incase the tire picks up the tow line so it will not drag me.
17:52 - The crosswind blew the tow to the right and the tow line snagged a bush.
18:00 - Still snagged it won't come lose.
18:33 - I'm letting the wind push the glider back to the starting point by dropping. the nose. of the glider.
18:44 - STRONG WIND HUH? 19:19 - This time I'm going to steer, left after launching, to keep the tow line out of the mesquite bush on the right side of the road.
19:55 - There that should do it.
20:20 - I always stop the tow 3/10 mile short of the end of the tow road incase I would have release problems -
20:20 - and so the end I drop can be drawn back onto the road.
20:42 - Released with too much line tension.
20:56 - I'll have to check for a short in my PTT finger switch.
22:20 - With this 195' Falcon, my weight, and at a ground elevation of 4,500' msl, I want 32 mph airspeed for take off.
22:20 - I subtract the wind speed from 32 and ask the driver for the difference for the desired vehicle speed.
22:20 - (Example: 32 - 10 windspeed = 22 mph vehicle speed.)
22:43 - LZ 22:56 - The practice flights totaled just under 13 minutes.
23:47 - Must be getting rusty!
23:58 - NEED MORE PRACTICE!
Exhausting dissection to follow. (Or we could just take a short paragraph and discuss the stuff that DIDN'T totally suck.)
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P.S. - 2017/10/23 17:35:00 UTC
