Kite Strings

Alright, I'm going to need help with this one. Sunday something happened to me on tow I'm at a loss to explain.

A few of the locals have been encouraging me to get a topless glider. I didn't feel ready, but when one offered to let me borrow his T2 I decided I couldn't pass up the offer. I took it up Saturday at sunset in still air and had no issue on tow. I was towing two point with the primary release (Lookout model) attached to the hang loop. I was still using the 200 lb Greenspot you sent with the primary bridle, Tad, and thus still using a No. 8 Bridle Link.

Sunday I took it up in mid-day conditions with the same tow equipment. I was fine for the first 1200' of the tow but then the tug hit a thermal and climbed rapidly above me. I pushed out to follow and then hit the same lift, climbing above the tug. I picked up a lot of speed pulling in to get down to the tug and when I leveled off I started to PIO. In retrospect I probably could have saved it but being on an unfamiliar glider I figured it would be best to release before things got ugly.

So, I jerk my hand inward and it flies off the basetube with no resistance. Somehow my hand had slipped out of the release loop. In all the years I've been using loop releases this has never happened, and of course the one time it does is when I really need to release.

I took my eyes off the tug and started frantically fumbling for the release loop, knowing my attitude was going to get increasing worse every second I delayed. I could feel the tension building and wondered if my weak link would break. I wasn't looking at the tug so I didn't know what my status was. I finally got my hand in the loop and was about to pull it when suddenly with a pop I was off tow. I figured my weak link broke but soon noticed my bridle was gone and one of my shoulder releases was open. I went on to have a nice flight but the whole time I was wondering what happened.

When I landed I found that the primary release appeared to have been triggered...the gate was open at any rate. The right barrel release was also open. The three-stitch run end of the Bridle Link had engaged the right release. I found that one of the leech line strands on the Link had detached from that end...it looks like the stitching actually broke rather than being pulled through as I would have expected. Here's a pic:


I had the flight captured on three cameras and wasted no time when I got home firing up the footage to see what the hell happened. However, the footage didn't answer many questions. It looks like both the primary and secondary releases activated at almost the exact same time. I think the secondary fired an instant before the primary as it looks like the bottom of the primary bridle reached the tow ring first. I don't know how either release got triggered but it's possible I triggered the primary since my hand was on it (I think). The secondary is the bigger mystery for me, and unfortunately none of my cameras show it at the moment of release.

At any rate, here's the footage (password = 'red'...best viewed in HD/full screen):
http://vimeo.com/31463683


Regardless of what caused the releases, the initial problem was of course my hand not being in the release loop. I know, Tad, consider it a kill...it could have been a big problem near the ground (I probably would have pulled a secondary in that case). Here's my theory as to why this happened:
1. The release actuator is velcroed to the basetube. However, if secured with Velcro alone it could slide when actuated, so it must be tied to the downtube.
2. I don't want any possibility of the release sliding so I pull it inward as taut as possible before launching.
3. I'm not that great at tying knots and the amount of slack in the tie-off line I end up with varies. As a result, when I slide the release in, it may not always end up in the exact same place.
4. I don't put a whole hand through the loop but only my index and middle fingers. My hand needs to be inward enough to keep some tension on the loop or the only thing keeping my fingers in the loop will be the pressure they're exerting on the bottom of the loop against the basetube.
5. I suspect on this day the release was mounted further inward than normal (although I don't really remember this) and thus the loop more prone to falling out of my fingers. When I let go of the dolly string enough pressure was removed from the loop that it fell from my grasp, unbeknownst to me.

Joe Street recommends semi-permanently mounting his release on a downtube (it doesn't attach to the basetube) with hose clamps. I wasn't crazy about this at first as I didn't want to leave my release on the glider, but it provides some significant advantages. The hose clamp is, in his words, 'bomb proof'...slipping isn't an issue. The release is always in the same location and orientation so consistent performance can be expected every time (sometimes I wonder if some of the inconsistencies I've seen with Lookout releases could be attributed to mounting issues). Finally, keeping the release on the glider reduces setup time. I think that this approach, combined with his Monkey's Fist terminated release cord between two fingers instead of a loop (harder to lose I suspect), could eliminate this issue.

(I've got one of Joe's releases and used it for the first time at the annual NASA balloon festival the weekend before last. I had six tows that weekend and the release worked great. I intend to write more about it later after I have more experience with it. I didn't use it last weekend as it's 'semi-permanently' mounted on my S2.)

It sucks to lose my snazzy wrap-resistant bridle, but not having a bridle with a thimble keeps me from using Bridle Links as well. And if I can't use a short bridle like a Bridle Link I'm not sure if I can use my secondary releases. Do you see any issue with me putting a thimble on my old Spectra bridle for use with Bridle Links, Tad? Any chance I can get another bridle from you? At any rate, this might be a good time to try towing one-point...

Zack

I was towing two point with the primary release (Lookout model) attached to the hang loop.

Yech. If I were gonna fly a topless it would be with a built in two point or a one. I wouldn't fly one on a regular basis without something in my teeth but for a few test drives I'd still settle for a couple of garden variety barrels before I'd string all that crap in the airflow. And with the upper anchor point that low you're not getting helped all that much with respect to where you are in relation to the control frame - you're still pretty far forward and losing some speed range.

And get some Speed Sleeves.

I was still using the 200 lb Greenspot you sent with the primary bridle, Tad, and thus still using a No. 8 Bridle Link.

Coward.

I pushed out to follow...

Shouldn't have. Just give it a very conservative little nudge 'cause you WILL be going up anyway when you hit that thermal and if you help too much you'll get into the situation you got into. (Although in the video it doesn't look like you went particularly nuts.)

In retrospect I probably could have saved it but being on an unfamiliar glider I figured it would be best to release before things got ugly.

Should've tried.

- At that altitude the absolute worst thing that could've happened would've been you ending up with a rope you'd have needed to return to its owner before continuing your recreational flying.

- A good tug driver - and even lotsa bad ones - will slow down and let you get the oscillations under control.

- Failing that... you coulda used the lockout experience.

- And even if you broke the glider - what the hell - it was a borrowed one anyway.

In all the years I've been using loop releases this has never happened, and of course the one time it does is when I really need to release.

Chalk another one up for Edward Murphy. The guy was an ABSOLUTE GENIUS, wasn't he?

I took my eyes off the tug and started frantically fumbling for the release loop, knowing my attitude was going to get increasing worse every second I delayed.

DUDE! You actually need TWO hands to control a glider in a compromised situation? By Jove, I believe I can see actual EVIDENCE of this happening in the video! WHO'DA THUNK!!! I certainly hadn't realized that after reading the excellent book by Pagen and Bryden. Maybe you should submit a magazine article to Herr Tim - USHGA's Towing and Safety and Training Committee.

When I landed I found that the primary release appeared to have been triggered...the gate was open at any rate.

It was triggered.

I think the secondary fired an instant before the primary as it looks like the bottom of the primary bridle reached the tow ring first.

I think the bottom end of the bridle cleared the tow ring before the primary release was triggered.

I don't know how either release got triggered but it's possible I triggered the primary since my hand was on it (I think).

Dollars to doughnuts.

The secondary is the bigger mystery for me, and unfortunately none of my cameras show it at the moment of release.

One of Murphy's nephews.

It opened as a result of being dragged over the basetube - that's a very well known issue with barrel releases.

I can't recall if those basetubes have little turbulator ridges like the downtubes but it would be really great if they did. That would make explaining why the stitching run on the starboard side of the Bridle Link was noncontinuous pretty easy - especially if up in the photo is the same up as it was in the air (which it would be if things were configured with the same orientation as in my photos.

I know, Tad, consider it a kill...

Yep. And what awesome video documentation of exactly how it happened. If you had had your cameras rolling in Dallas on 1963/11/22 instead of / in addition to Abraham Zapruder, Oliver Stone would've had to have found something else to make a film about seventeen years later.

And if it had been an ACTUAL kill...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22308
Better mouse trap(release)?

Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC

Oh, I've heard the "everything we do is an experiment" line before.
The trouble is, it's not.

I've seen experimentation with towing gear more than anything else in HG.
I've not seen many go out and try to build their own sails for example. When someone does, they're very quickly "shown the light" by the community. Example... the guy that was building the PVC glider in California somewhere.
But for some reason, towing gear is exempt from this.

The difference is what we do has been done by thousands of people already. It's been tested... a lot.
What we do is free of the experimentation part.
It's still dangerous, but not at the level of building new gear is. Not even close.

That's what people fail to realize.
It's no small difference. It's a huge chasm.

Notice how I'm not saying to not do it.
Go forth and experiment. That's great... that's how we improve things.
I'm just warning you of that chasm.

A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????

Approach it for what it is... completely untested and very experimental gear which will likely fail in new and unforseen ways as it tries it's damndest to kill you... and then we can talk.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:40:24 UTC

Am I "certain" about anything?
Nope.
However, some things get real obvious when you're doing them all the time. One is that weaklinks do in fact save people's asses.
You're 100% onto it... relying on the skill of the pilot is a numbers game that you'll lose at some point.

I find that so many people do not appreciate how fast and furious lockouts can happen.
They're exponential in nature.
Twice the time doesn't equate to twice the "bad"... it's four times the "bad"... then 16... it gets dramatic fast.

Is a weaklink going to save your ass? Who knows? But it's nice to stack the deck in your favour.

Now flip the argument and you start to see the devil.
A glider can take a whole shitload more force than a weaklink can.
So, if you're of the "sole purpose" cult, then you see no issue with a LOT stronger weaklink.

Well, it won't take long with that system before we've got a lot more dead pilots out there.
So they can stuff their philosophical purity bs... cuz I have no desire to tow someone to their death, no matter how willing they may be.

I'm not playing with this stuff in my head and just dismissing it. There's been a lot that's gone into this system.

I've seen too many people walk the "strong link" road only to find out the reality of things.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

And everybody would also be talking about how you made no effort to actuate the new GT aerotow release that works better than all cable releases that we have experience with at the first sign of trouble and, instead, stupidly tried to salvage a bad situation. (But at least he died doing what he loved, his family is in our prayers, and we know he's in a better place now.)

...I probably would have pulled a secondary in that case...

Nah, you'd have been pulling a backup. You really can't afford to ever let yourself into a situation like that 'cause if you do - as you well know - you are one bridle wrap away from virtually certain death. (Unless Ryan has some other ideas on the issue.)

I'm not that great at tying knots and the amount of slack in the tie-off line I end up with varies.

- Knots can be adjusted after tying.

- I'm thinking that it would be pretty easy to incorporate a Clamcleat in that application so's you could eliminate the knot tying and be able to instantly adjust things for any glider any way you wanted.

- Is the tie-off line Matt incorporated nylon or Dacron?

- You need to get great at tying knots. They're easy and fun and, as you just demonstrated, can be life and death issues in hang gliding. Boy Scouts are required to be able to tie them to get their badges and, considering our lives are a lot more likely to depend on them, we should also be required to tie them to get ours.

My hand needs to be inward enough to keep some tension on the loop or the only thing keeping my fingers in the loop will be the pressure they're exerting on the bottom of the loop against the basetube.

C'mon Zack, that was a rather obvious very bad accident waiting to happen. You could've used a rubber band as a reasonably good patch for that configuration.

Joe Street recommends semi-permanently mounting...

The more permanently mounted these things are the fewer problems and surprises you tend to have with them.

http://www.birrendesign.com/LKStatic.html
Linknife - static line tow setup

Peter Birren

The idea behind any release is to be easy to set up...

Nah, Peter, that actually ISN'T something that should be at the top of your list of priorities. (Although... if you go to the trouble of a permanent installation ONCE the subsequent setups ARE incredibly easy.)

I think that this approach, combined with his Monkey's Fist terminated release cord between two fingers instead of a loop (harder to lose I suspect), could eliminate this issue.

Yes.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306300488/


Everything in my system has had the crap optimized out of it. That's bomb proof.

I've got one of Joe's releases and used it for the first time at the annual NASA balloon festival the weekend before last.

- You should've gotten two of Joe's releases.
- With whom did you make arrangements to do a drop this winter?

I intend to write more about it later after I have more experience with it.

Give him the press he deserves on the Jack and Davis Shows. They'll all hate it 'cause...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14903
New Lookout Release--preliminary test

JD Guillemette - 2009/02/13 03:24:15

Sweeeet!!!! Looks good to me.

I like the bent gate bar, as Marc suggested that should make release force many times less than tow force, if not nearly independant of tow line force.

Nicely done Lookout! Elegant solution!

As in most cases, the simplest designs work best.

...the pin's not bent but maybe you'll be able to get through to someone.

It sucks to lose my snazzy wrap-resistant bridle...

Yep, I was very sad to watch it disappear. And it took six things lining up just right for that to happen:
- loss of the actuator loop on launch;
- overly aggressive tug following;
- resultant PIO;
- call to abort rather than attempt to save;
- autorelease of starboard barrel from contact with basetube;
- success in blowing primary a millisecond later.
Murphy at his finest.

...but not having a bridle...

Shoulda splurged for two. I always like to have a spare in the car for anything that can be lost or easily broken on a fairly routine landing.

And if I can't use a short bridle like a Bridle Link I'm not sure if I can use my secondary releases.

If you look at the "Industry Standard" junk that people get away with for "quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows"...

There's lotsa ways you can configure without needing to lose too much sleep.

- Go to the closet and get your eight foot Industry Standard primary bridle and two to four foot Industry Standard secondary.

- Put a 250 at the top and a pair of alleged Cortland two hundreds on the secondary ends.

- You can use those barrel releases releases on ANYTHING - including the bridle end God's Special Little Messenger insists you connect directly without using a weak link.

- Don't fuck up under two hundred feet.

Do you see any issue with me putting a thimble on my old Spectra bridle for use with Bridle Links, Tad?

If it's a sailmaker's thimble - none whatsoever. If all you can get for the moment is a regular cable thimble - use it. That'll keep things from getting chewed up, it should work OK if you need to go to a secondary, if it doesn't you've got releases on BOTH sides, and you won't need to go to a secondary anyway.

Any chance I can get another bridle from you?

It's gonna be red this time. That'll increase the chances of you getting it back if you lose it and decrease the chances of some piece of farm equipment being brought to a screeching halt.

Annapolis Performance Sailing is hurting on flavors so I just ordered 150 feet of eight inch Amsteel Blue (red) from Redden Marine supply in the upper left hand corner of the 48. You won't have it for the coming weekend but you probably wouldn't have had it that fast even if I had the material on hand. So fly one point and post the video to prove it.

Commentary on video commentary...

I'm not sure if I was actually locked out when the tow aborted.

I think you could've stuffed the bar, gotten to the right, and brought it back easy. Don't worry too much about trying to stay level with the tug when things start getting ugly (like I used to).

I think my hand finally found the release loop, but I'm not 100% sure.

I don't think there's another good explanation as to how the primary opened.

The primary release has begun to move back, implying a sudden reduction in tension. I suspect the secondary release had been triggered at this point.

No question. The starboard barrel has blown.

After landing I observed the release had been triggered, so I don't think the weak link broke.

The weak link DID NOT blow. It was intact and not feeling all that much pain when the barrel opened well in advance of the top and there was no trace of bridle wrap. So it would've been physically impossible for the primary weak link to have blown.

However, I may have triggered the release after a weak link break as the release takes very little force to trigger when it's not loaded.

There was virtually no tension in that system from the nanosecond the pin on the starboard barrel rotated. So you were pulling a release with nothing on it.

Perhaps the towline being directed to my right caused my right arm to contact the release while I was trying to pull the primary's loop. Or it may have contacted the base tube.

It contacted the basetube. Your hand comes off the basetube when you pull the loop that you don't have, it goes back on with the barrel release unaffected, and then it stays on or along the basetube only moving laterally.

The helmet cam shows that the bottom end of the primary bridle was released first. The other cameras show that the bridle is no longer attached to anything.

I think the bottom end cleared before the top end was blown for three reasons...

- The bridle is pretty straight when it's is no more than about six inches from clearing the tow ring.

- At 3:03 the helmet and keel cameras aren't synched - the keel's lagging. From the helmet the bridle is straight minus a slight even sag from end to end and from the keel it's three feet clear of the primary release and waving.

- It would be really cool to be able to say that even my suboptimal bottom bridle end cleared the tow ring under fairly high emergency situation tension with no hint of a tendency to wrap. And there doesn't appear to be any question that it cleared the potential problem spot and rendered that issue irrelevant anyway.

Note that you'd still have your bridle if you had:

- not used it and gone one point; or

- used my secondary / one point assembly on your shoulders. That has the Four-String on the starboard side and it can't auto release. Two hundred feet, spit out the Trigger Line, it becomes inert.

Auto (secondary) release is a real issue..
cause i am hooked low, I had it 2 times..

Joe Street release
V-bridle with thimble
2 secondary "Tad" releases
with a bridle link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HwSZoJUE84

(say nothing with the camera mounting, I know..)

That's a potentially lethal situation.

I've never been entirely comfortable with barrel releases because they can and do blow open when dragged forward across the basetube (or when in contact and the bar is pulled back).

I've given some thought to using a safety mechanism to lock them but I so far don't have any great ideas about how to do it without complicating and compromising and slowing emergency release.

If you used a Four-String on one shoulder that wouldn't be an issue and you could safety the barrel however you wanted or just eliminate it from the configuration.

But what I'd recommend - short of those options - would be to just extend the barrels forward...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8313526097/


...so they're well in front of the range of normal movement of the basetube.

When you're making adjustments bear in mind that when your system is loaded by tow tension things can move forward by a rather surprising amount so be careful not to set them where they'll move out of reach.

Tad Eareckson wrote:I've given some thought to using a safety mechanism to lock them...

Please give us some details..

Tad Eareckson wrote:If you used a Four-String on one shoulder that wouldn't be an issue and you could safety the barrel however you wanted or just eliminate it from the configuration.

but.. minimum load release of a 4 strings is 13kg you said.. In this case you consider having no release available with no load so :
as the wl on the bottom, 1,2x the one on the top, is a quite perfect release when there is a wrap.. it is tempting to remove barrel releases..

Barrel release safety...

You could run a pin between the leechline strands - perpendicular to the release and just behind the barrel - such that it prevents the barrel from sliding aft. In a low level emergency you blow the Four-String. If the situation isn't critical you pull a loop on the end of the pin (which then dangles from a safety cord) and pull the barrel back.

Four-String minimum tension...

Yes. But you can just arm the release with your teeth and punch the Bridle Link with one hand - just as fast and about as easy as you could grab and pull a barrel.

But I think you'll be fine if you just move your pair of barrel releases forward. In the US there are zillions of two and one point solo and two point tandem aerotows, everyone and his dog uses those stupid, bent pin, snag prone, Bailey barrels, and the auto release issue doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

...is a quite perfect release when there is a wrap...

Not perfect. Extremely likely - but don't bet your life on it.

Move your barrels forward, maybe safety or temporarily disable one of them, keep your finger on the primary release trigger, and see how things go.

P.S. Any complaints about Joe's release?

Thanks,

I just build my first 4 strings, amazing load reduction !!
maybe I will advice this to my friends as a secondary on 2 points, and for sure for all on 1 point. In your pic the length of the "base" is longer than the measure you give on mousetraps. I understood that there is 2 things to adjust: base (or extension) and trigger. I have to test mine on my harness..

Tad Eareckson wrote:P.S. Any complaints about Joe's release?

no. I'm not anymore in the flats but my friends continue.. We let the release on the downtube. I will order 20 more releases soon.. I understood that Joe don't want any advertising for yet until he has his own website..

I just build my first 4 strings, amazing load reduction !!

Yeah, that is one powerful little coil of string. I totally love that thing.

Are you using a Clamcleat as a locking mechanism?

In your pic the length of the "base" is longer than the measure you give on mousetraps.

- What pic and how can you tell?

- You ought to talk with me before you build stuff 'cause I've changed some thinking on a few things and not all of that documentation is up to date. Back then I was trying to get a good minimum length that everyone could use but now I think that it's better to go a little on the long side and not worry about a couple of extra inches.

- There's a table in Mousetraps which gives construction measurements based on whatever Trigger length you plug in - but it's only valid for 5/64 inch diameter leechline.

I understood that there is 2 things to adjust: base (or extension) and trigger.

The Trigger length is selected/determined. It can't be adjusted. It determines the minimum lengths of the subsequent loops.

What can and needs to be adjusted is the position of the Clamcleat (or whatever locking mechanism you use). That needs to be straight under your teeth (and aft of your chin guard). And the only good real good way to adjust it is to fly it and check the position.

Hold the Trigger Line lightly between your lips such that if it's too short it will pull free without arming and blowing you off tow. If it's a little long eat a little string and decide how much shorter you should go if you want to make another one or if your happy just feeding some Trigger Line through the Clamcleat to get a good free length for the next flight.

And, of course, check the Clamcleat position.

Really glad to hear about Joe's release. Hope they'll soon start crowding some of the junk out of the air.

Hey, stop hijacking my thread (kidding).

Thanks for the analysis, Tad...once again I think you nailed it. I suspect the reason I didn't think I pulled the primary is that I didn't feel the resistance on the loop I'm used to. I've measured my Lookout release at 4 lbs of actuation force with no load and 16 lbs with an 85 lb load (which, I might add, is much worse than what they reported on my repaired release (12 @ 130)). If the release wasn't loaded I doubt I would have noticed the minimal resistance with the adrenaline I was experiencing.

Tad Eareckson wrote:If I were gonna fly a topless it would be with a built in two point or a one.

Making my tows as easy/familiar as possible was a higher priority than minimizing drag...I had issues on tow as it was. (I asked Gregg what he recommended and he said to stick with two point since I hadn't towed one.)

Tad Eareckson wrote:It opened as a result of being dragged over the basetube - that's a very well known issue with barrel releases.

I know you've listed this as a disadvantage of barrel releases in the past but I didn't think it was that big of a threat as I had never heard about it happening to anyone. I think the somewhat sideways orientation of my body at the time it was triggered contributed...normally the releases are out in front of the bar. I was also probably hanging lower than normal as I didn't have any wraps in the hang loop.

Tad Eareckson wrote:I can't recall if those basetubes have little turbulator ridges like the downtubes but it would be really great if they did.

No, I think the carbon basetubes do, but this one is smooth.

Tad Eareckson wrote:...especially if up in the photo is the same up as it was in the air...

Pretty sure it was.

Tad Eareckson wrote:Is the tie-off line Matt incorporated nylon or Dacron?

Dunno...

Tad Eareckson wrote:You can use those barrel releases releases on ANYTHING...

I was mainly concerned about the length of the release assemblies (designed for a short bridle) plus the long secondary bridle being an issue.

Tad Eareckson wrote:At 3:03 the helmet and keel cameras aren't synched - the keel's lagging.

Good point. I got them as synced as possible but I'm limited to a 1/30th of a second (33 ms) timing resolution. Fortunately they're all the same model and should record at the same rate, but I really need higher speed cameras to record things that happen this quickly.

Tad Eareckson wrote:But what I'd recommend - short of those options - would be to just extend the barrels forward...

That won't eliminate the possibility (as I demonstrated).

Would it be possible to put springs or something in the releases to increase the minimum required actuation force without compromising high load performance?

Tad Eareckson wrote:You should've gotten two of Joe's releases.

Yes, he pointed out that if I liked his release and had other gliders I wanted to tow I could get a few of his releases for the price of one of some of the others.

Tad Eareckson wrote:Give him the press he deserves on the Jack and Davis Shows.

He says he's not currently prepared to do any volume production of these things and asked I talk to him before I 'spread the word'.

Tad Eareckson wrote:With whom did you make arrangements to do a drop this winter?

Ha, I knew you were going to ask that. I think you have more of a desire for me to do a drop than I do. Doing it legally sounds like too much trouble and I don't want to do it illegally.

As for the T2, I LOVE the glide and light (non-existent at full VG) pitch pressure of the wing, but I found it too much effort to control in roll in the rowdy stuff. I want the performance of a topless with the handling of a Falcon...I think my next wing's going to be a rigid.

Zack

If the release wasn't loaded I doubt I would have noticed the minimal resistance with the adrenaline I was experiencing.

Yeah, I figured that probably would've reduced your sensitivity a bit.

Making my tows as easy/familiar as possible was a higher priority than minimizing drag...I had issues on tow as it was. (I asked Gregg what he recommended and he said to stick with two point since I hadn't towed one.)

Gawd. When I was a kid they just tied ropes around our necks, told us to run as fast as we could, pull the bar back as far as it would go, and try to aim for the Cosmos. (And that's not too much of an exaggeration.)

You wouldn't have had any more noticeable issues with that glider one point than you did two. And any that you possibly could've had would've been totally dwarfed by the issue of that loop falling off your hand. I've demoed a few toplesses and thought they were incredibly easy. Even my HPAT which trims nicely for two with the anchor point a good bit fore on the keel was a surprising piece of cake.

And nobody ever got to be a better, safer pilot by NOT having a particular experience. Holly Korzilius comes strongly to mind on this one. I'd like to see a one point tow to a thousand feet be a requirement for an AT signoff - but that would discriminate against people with slower gliders.

And isn't Gregg the guy who had you run your truck tow bridle up to the carabiner to reduce the pressure on your hips? (What are the shapes of the pins on his shoulders?)

...but I didn't think it was that big of a threat as I had never heard about it happening to anyone.

I don't think it IS that big of a threat. You had several things going wrong at once and got pretty discombobulated. And at that point you wanted to be off tow anyway (just not from the bottom end first). I flew one or two of those barrels two point for years through a lot of nasty stuff and never came anywhere close to blowing them.

No, I think the carbon basetubes do, but this one is smooth.

Damn. There goes my only good rational explanation for the Bridle Link issue. Now I'll hafta go with a stray infrared laser beam from a secret CIA weapons testing program.

Dunno...

Can't tell. Would guess nylon. Pull on it. If it stretches it's nylon. If it is it's not that big a deal but it shouldn't be.

I was mainly concerned about the length of the release assemblies (designed for a short bridle) plus the long secondary bridle being an issue.

Have you seen what some of these idiots fly with? I've seen bridle pairs at Ridgely in which it's difficult to tell the primary and secondary apart. If the barrels are within reach they're good and once the secondary / one point bridle is long enough to tie itself to the tow ring there's no downside to adding feet.

Good point.

So now can I say that the bottom end of my bridle cleared the tow ring under high tension no problem?

...but I really need higher speed cameras to record things that happen this quickly.

Hopefully you won't have any more things that happen quickly enough that you really need higher speed cameras. (And bear in mind that, given my internet connection, if you get higher speed cameras I won't be able to get back to you on some of these issues for three or four weeks.)

That won't eliminate the possibility (as I demonstrated).

Nope. If you put the barrel anywhere that you can reach with your hand you can also reach it with your basetube.

Would it be possible to put springs or something in the releases to increase the minimum required actuation force without compromising high load performance?

No. It's typically gonna be dragged across the basetube under a lot of tension and if you can pull it back it can pull it back. It would be really cool if it stayed locked until it felt a squeeze but that's a bit beyond me.

I think you have more of a desire for me to do a drop than I do.

You wouldn't believe how much work went into my system - and it's been used ONCE.

...and I don't want to do it illegally.

Why not? Everybody else has. Talk to John Heiney. I'm pretty sure he's done it illegally at air shows with the FAA breathing down his neck. And all Dragonfly towing was illegal until recently when the Sport Pilot stuff kicked in. Come to think of it by no sane interpretation of the regulations is aerotowing with a Bailey Release legal - and yet...

...I think my next wing's going to be a rigid.

Can't say too much on that - rigids are mostly beyond my vocabulary level.