Blue Sky Scooter Towing
Posted: 2012/03/25 21:39:31 UTC
Blue Sky Scooter Towing
http://www.kitestrings.org/post1560.html#p1560
so pardon any redundancy.
- Exactly how did we PROVE the Blue Sky Method of Scooter Towing to be safe and effective? Did we look at post training crashes and demonstrated competence? Or are we just assuming that if nobody gets slammed in skimming the strip at Manquin we're producing safe and competent pilots?
- Were Holly Korzilius and Bill Priday properly trained? When the product of someone's instruction and program gets half or fully killed is it always entirely a matter of individual pilot error - or does the instructor get to share in some of the credit? It seems they're never particularly shy about pointing to their students who go out and win XC competitions six months after they've scored their Threes.
- How 'bout when there's indisputable proof that the instructor was operating in clear violation of clearly stated USHGA regulations?
- Have any other methods been "proven" to be - or shown some obvious indication that they are - safer and/or more effective than the Blue Sky Method of Scooter Towing?
- Have you looked for any obvious holes in Steve's program and made any effort to patch them? Or is this as good as things are ever gonna get?
http://www.kitestrings.org/post15.html#p15
- How much significant tow experience does the instructor need to operate a throttle and skim trainer gliders five feet off the ground?
- Does a ten year old kid need to have gone up on a kite to be really skilled at flying one and diagnosing and remedying problems with its performance?
- There are some really skilled Hang Fives who totally suck as tow drivers and some really excellent tow drivers who've never once clipped into a glider.
- So please explain to me why a scooter tow instructor actually needs to be a pilot.
- *A* suggested reference book? What the fuck does that mean? Who's suggesting it? On what basis? Is this kinda like:
- Have you bothered to read it? Does it bother you that there are flat contradictions between what it's saying and what you're presenting in this manual and video? Hell, does it bother you that it flat out contradicts ITSELF every third page?
- *THE* author? There are actually (supposed to be) TWO authors.
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
- something in this system and approach that's particularly innovative and/or required experimentation to verify
- ANYTHING in hang gliding that required much in the way of in flight experimentation to get into circulation
Actually I'm a bit curious as to how someone differentiates scooter tow operators with low and high degrees of proficiency. Kinda like tug drivers. After about two or three tows and a comprehension of the principles of fast/slow, up/down, and left/right there's not much in the way of advancement that anyone's gonna be able to achieve.
High time to start doing a proper hatchet job on this manual. Already kicked it around a little over the course of seven posts (to date) starting at:Blue Sky Scooter Towing Method
Equipment & Practices
by Steve Wendt and Mike Meier
Copyright 2007/03 by Sport Kites, Inc. dba Wills Wing, Inc.
http://www.kitestrings.org/post1560.html#p1560
so pardon any redundancy.
Oh yeah, STEVE WENDT. Only 1.5 of his students needlessly killed - for reasons obvious in this text and the companion video - within about four months of him receiving his 2004 USHGA Instructor of the Year Award. Hard to imagine anybody being able to develop better practices than that.Introduction
What follows is an outline of the equipment and practices used in the Blue Sky Method of Scooter Towing. A companion video illustrates this material. The manual and video are based on methods developed and used by Steve Wendt of Blue Sky Hang Gliding in Penn Laird, Virginia, USA.
Of course they have. Just about all instructors in the United States are corrupt incompetent assholes operating deep inside the limits of their mediocre intellects and far outside of some of the most fundamental and critical of USHGA regulations and - for that matter - principles of common sense.Steve's methods have gained wide recognition among instructors in the United States as representing the current, best practices in scooter towing.
- Wow. WE are pronouncing OUR method of scooter towing safe and effective. Who'da thunk?(For brevity, we will refer to these specific methods using the generic term "Scooter Towing" - by which we will mean the Blue Sky Method of Scooter Towing. Many different methods and practices have been used for many years under the general term of "scooter towing," and not all of these have proven to be safe or effective.)
- Exactly how did we PROVE the Blue Sky Method of Scooter Towing to be safe and effective? Did we look at post training crashes and demonstrated competence? Or are we just assuming that if nobody gets slammed in skimming the strip at Manquin we're producing safe and competent pilots?
- Were Holly Korzilius and Bill Priday properly trained? When the product of someone's instruction and program gets half or fully killed is it always entirely a matter of individual pilot error - or does the instructor get to share in some of the credit? It seems they're never particularly shy about pointing to their students who go out and win XC competitions six months after they've scored their Threes.
- How 'bout when there's indisputable proof that the instructor was operating in clear violation of clearly stated USHGA regulations?
- Have any other methods been "proven" to be - or shown some obvious indication that they are - safer and/or more effective than the Blue Sky Method of Scooter Towing?
- Have you looked for any obvious holes in Steve's program and made any effort to patch them? Or is this as good as things are ever gonna get?
Yeah, good certified USHGA instructors.This manual does not teach instruction; the material herein is intended for use by trained and qualified hang gliding instructors, and assumes in the user a thorough knowledge of the principles and practices of teaching hang gliding.
http://www.kitestrings.org/post15.html#p15
That way you KNOW you have top notch professionals - people to whom you can trust your life.Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC
I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself (and maybe the people at Wills Wing).
- Why does it hafta be ground based towing? You're using aerotow equipment and, for initial stages of training, you're pulling the glider straight forward at a constant zero degree tow angle. This is a lot more akin to aero than static or platform.Instructors wishing to use scooter towing as a training tool must also have significant experience as pilots in at least one method of ground based towing...
- How much significant tow experience does the instructor need to operate a throttle and skim trainer gliders five feet off the ground?
- Does a ten year old kid need to have gone up on a kite to be really skilled at flying one and diagnosing and remedying problems with its performance?
- There are some really skilled Hang Fives who totally suck as tow drivers and some really excellent tow drivers who've never once clipped into a glider.
- So please explain to me why a scooter tow instructor actually needs to be a pilot.
Would you guys be on board with all of these?...and have a thorough understanding of the general principles of towing.
If not can you please explain why you're incorporating equipment which forces the student to take his hands off the bar and deliberately introduces a strong possibility of rope break and using a pin man who's perfectly OK with violating those general principles of towing.Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
by Daniel F. Poynter
1974
"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson
- Yeah...A suggested reference book on towing is Towing Aloft by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden - available from:
http://www.Amazon.com
or direct from the author at:
http://users.lazerlink.net/~pagenbks
The EXCELLENT book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden.Peter Birren
The excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden...
- *A* suggested reference book? What the fuck does that mean? Who's suggesting it? On what basis? Is this kinda like:
We're just supposed to accept something 'cause it's SUGGESTED or A GOOD RULE OF THUMB?Quest Air
Weak Link
A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider.
- Have you bothered to read it? Does it bother you that there are flat contradictions between what it's saying and what you're presenting in this manual and video? Hell, does it bother you that it flat out contradicts ITSELF every third page?
- *THE* author? There are actually (supposed to be) TWO authors.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404Finally, since much of the equipment typically used for scooter towing is not available "off the shelf" in the form or configuration in which it will be used, some practical knowledge of the basics of mechanical engineering and some mechanical and fabrication skills are required of, or need to be available to, anyone who wants to set up a scooter tow operation.
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
And if you don't care about the bent pins releasing with as little tension on them as the straight pins, Steve can set you up. There's really no difference. And you can still put a weak link on the other end too. Just a good idea but not really all that important.Holger Selover-Stephan - 2010/05/28 22:16:33 UTC
Portland, Oregon
I ordered and received a few barrel releases from Blue Sky. They have straight pins, not the curved ones I'm used to. Steve at Blue Sky tells me this:...they [the curved pins] don't release with as little tension on them as the straight pins. Otherwise, there is no difference. It makes it hard to put just a rope on the barrel end, which encourages a weak link. Just a good idea. That's why we've been shifting that way, as are many other manufacturers of these releases.
Quallaby primary releases, bent pin backup releases, 130 pound Greenspot, hook knives... All good, certified, quality stuff guaranteed to get you off tow, one way or another, sooner or later.Continuing efforts are underway to establish and provide convenient sources and additional technical support for the equipment required - and these will be listed as they are developed at:
http://www.willswing.com/learn/scooterTow
Are the people who recognize this set as the best practices for scooter towing the same ones who...The intent of this document is to summarize a recognized set of best practices for scooter towing.
...insist on the installation of a backup loop as an essential safety element of glider design?Mike Meier - 2005/08
If the main is properly maintained, and periodically replaced, it is never going to fail anyway, so the backup is sort of pointless. Years ago we didn't even put backup hang loops on our gliders (there's no other component on your glider that is backed up, and there are plenty of other components that are more likely to fail, and where the failure would be just as serious), but for some reason the whole backup hang loop thing is a big psychological need for most pilots.
And Quallaby, Lockout, and Bailey releases have been used by virtually all aerotow instructors to conduct hundreds of thousands of "safe" aerotows - and handful of predictably deadly ones - and are still widely recognized as safe towing equipment. So who the fuck cares?The methods described herein have been used to conduct thousands of safe scooter tows, they have been taught and demonstrated to a large number of experienced instructors during scooter tow clinics, and they have been widely recognized as producing a safe and productive training experience for the student.
That's OK - I got a few WAY better ideas, thank you very much.As such, instructors new to scooter towing are emphatically advised to adopt and follow the specific methods and recommendations provided here...
The assumption being that these prescribed procedures were very cautiously and conservatively thought out and developed....and to be very cautious and conservative about any deviations from these prescribed procedures.
Show me:There is no progress in any endeavor without experimentation and innovation, and scooter towing itself would not exist if instructors had not ventured outside of the previously established practices for hang glider training.
- something in this system and approach that's particularly innovative and/or required experimentation to verify
- ANYTHING in hang gliding that required much in the way of in flight experimentation to get into circulation
Yeah. The technology and methodology is described here is absolutely mind boggling. Hard to believe it all came about without divine inspiration.Today, however, the specific methods and practices of scooter towing as described here are at a highly advanced stage of development, and it is thus now possible to specify a standardized set of proven practices that incorporate the lessons learned from years of development and experimentation.
What if we let them take off and land prone and on wheels. What catastrophic consequences might be expected from those deviations?Any decision to deviate from these methods should be very carefully weighed. In no case, should any experimentation be carried out on actual students.
Yeah. Looks real challenging.Instructors being trained in scooter tow methodology should, whenever possible, learn the skills involved under the supervision of a highly qualified scooter tow instructor experienced in these specific practices, and should practice and develop their skills using other instructors or experienced pilots as "students" until they have developed a high degree of proficiency.
Actually I'm a bit curious as to how someone differentiates scooter tow operators with low and high degrees of proficiency. Kinda like tug drivers. After about two or three tows and a comprehension of the principles of fast/slow, up/down, and left/right there's not much in the way of advancement that anyone's gonna be able to achieve.