Kite Strings

Members of KiteStrings,

Over the past few months several pilots have been working to loosen USHPA's death grip on the sport of hang gliding at Dockweiler State Beach in Los Angeles, California. Until very recently USHPA membership had been required to fly the site. As a result of our joint efforts with Los Angeles County, that's no longer the case. This was my post from this past Monday (July 31st, 2017) announcing the change:

On July 26th, 2017, the County of Los Angeles issued written permission for 3 pilots to fly at Dockweiler Beach without requiring USHPA membership or USHPA insurance. Those 3 pilots (in alphabetical order by last name) are:

- Frank Colver
- Joe Faust
- Bob Kuczewski

The permission to use the site for hang gliding activities required a signed waiver with the County and is limited to the hours between sunrise and sunset on days that the concession (WindSports) is not using the site - currently Mondays and Tuesdays. We flew there today (Monday, July 31st, 2017) in accordance with that permission.

In order to obtain this permission, several meetings were held to discuss the need for this decision. Among the arguments presented were:

1. The County should not require membership in any private organizations (such as USHPA) in order for public use of public land.

2. The County should not require membership in any organization (such as USHPA) that expels members for legal testimony in a court of law.

3. The County should not require membership in any organization (such as USHPA) that expels members for making legai public statements to their local government.

4. The County should not require membership in any organization (such as USHPA) that expels members for creating competing organizations.

There is some disagreement among today's flyers as to which of these arguments was most persuasive in the County's decision. But there is no disagreement that the County's decision was correct.

This decision is limited to Dockweiler Beach, but I believe the principles are applicable to all flying sites on public land in the United States. Time will tell.

I am posting to KiteStrings because this is a time for us to put aside our differences and work together on spreading this message to all corners of the hang gliding community.

Thank you.

bobk wrote:Over the past few months several pilots have been working to loosen USHPA's death grip on the sport of hang gliding at Dockweiler State Beach in Los Angeles, California.

I think that you've got a dangling participle going on there, Bob.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM

Steve...

I'm pretty sure not.

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/dangling-participles
Grammar Girl : Dangling Participles :: Quick and Dirty Tips

There's no way to misinterpret or misrepresent what's being stated.

Everybody...

Bob called me late yesterday afternoon my time over this issue (which I'd been following). My defenses were down a good bit 'cause I'm total emotional wreckage now and I agreed to post something relevant to help spread the word. The subject of banning came up and reminded Bob that he'd never been unbanned but I'd reconnected his wire as a courtesy on the condition that he didn't post. And I told him I'd be happy to ONCE AGAIN reconnect his wire on if he agreed not to post. He did, I did, and here we are (again).

Then had to go out for a rather long evening.

Bob...

Members of KiteStrings...

Why are you addressing "Members of KiteStrings"? Kite Strings only has eleven members who've logged in since the beginning of 2017 and three of those are on the other side of the Atlantic.

The information on Kite Strings is intended for and freely available to anyone who cares to read it. If you want members-only stuff try The Davis Show and/or The Jack Show Incident Reports subforum.

Until very recently USHPA membership had been required to fly the site.

As is and always has been the case for ALL aerotowing.

This was my post from this past Monday (July 31st, 2017) announcing the change...

That was your post from this past Monday (July 31st, 2017)...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2742
Re: July 26th, 2017
Bob Kuczewski - 2017/08/01 04:51:53 UTC

...announcing the change that I'd selected and would've posted myself in response to your request that I help publicize the situation.

I am posting to KiteStrings...

In virtually immediate violation of our agreement, your promise not to as the sole condition for me restoring your otherwise unrestricted access to the forum. (And notice that Bob never has done and never will do anything by way of reciprocation.)

....because this is a time for us to put aside our differences...

- Like our words actually meaning something.

- Why is it so important for you that we put aside our differences? If you've done something positive and solid, and you have in this case, I'm gonna support it - and there's a clear record of me and other Kite Strings members having done so in the past.

- OUR DIFFERENCES are MY PRINCIPLES. I'd like to think that they don't have on/off switches. How 'bout yours?

...and work together on spreading this message to all corners of the hang gliding community.

- Fuck the hang gliding "community". It's all totally on board with any and all evil shit u$hPa feels like doing. It's only the outcasts and misfits who care and matter.

- Is the hang gliding community limited to the US? I notice that your "organization" (dictatorship) is US Hawks. Kite Strings, on the other hand, doesn't give a rat's ass where (or if) you fly. The corners are a lot farther apart. And now that I think about it, I don't recall that you've ever had much in the way of non US participation.

The permission to use the site for hang gliding activities required a signed waiver with the County and is limited to the hours between sunrise and sunset...

As is ALL legal hang gliding in the US.

...on days that the concession (WindSports) is not using the site - currently Mondays and Tuesdays.

Crumbs.

We flew there today (Monday, July 31st, 2017) in accordance with that permission.

So tomorrow Air California Adventures could take over as concessionaire and just announce a seven day schedule. Wouldn't even ever hafta have any actual flying taking place. I think it still kinda stinks that a private commercial operation on public land can totally exclude recreational flying five entire days a week - including Saturday and Sunday.

"You're breaking an hour for lunch."
"You have only one student scheduled today and that's just for half an hour starting at seven AM/PM."
"You don't have ANY students today - or the previous three days."
"It's blown out for students."
"Would it be OK for me to take a quick hop?"

"Go fuck yourself."

This decision is limited to Dockweiler Beach...

Where a pilot proficiency rating is pretty much a nonissue. What happens when somebody wants to fly Glacier Point? If we left it to the individual's discretion would we see a resulting disaster rate that get accesses closed down completely?

...but I believe the principles are applicable to all flying sites on public land in the United States.

Hanging by a thread as things stand.

Time will tell.

The u$hPa monopoly has gotten so arrogant, bloated, evil that at least the insurance industry has seen through its game. Hopefully other relevant entities will be catching on and responding accordingly.

I called because I wanted to get the word out about a fairly important development in hang gliding. I assumed that would include actually posting about it. If there was a misunderstanding, you know how to "cut my wires" by now. Do whatever you want.

You are correct about the limitations on days and the potential for a 7-day operation to shut us out completely. We've mentioned those concerns, but we didn't want to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

More importantly, those are all operational details. They can be negotiated based on practcality. The big breakthrough is the insurance issue. That's been a burden that hang gliding has placed on its own back. It's a burden that virtually no other sport is forced to carry. It's also the burden that gives USHPA the power over all pilots at almost all popular sites. It's what gives them their monopoly, and that's why they were so furious when they lost it. That's why they don't advertise the recreational use statutes. They don't want pilots flying under recreational use statutes. They want pilots forced into USHPA membership to fly anywhere. Los Angeles County looked at that situation (and how USHPA has used their monopoly as a weapon) and said "no".

That's a major breakthrough, and it should be big news in the sport. But USHPA (and the entities they influence - such as hanggliding.org) won't be telling anyone about it. That's why I asked permission to share it here. Kite Strings may only have 11 active members, but any one of those 11 could be the link to huge segments of the hang gliding population (as in the movie "Pay it Forward").

As I've said many times, there's much that we disagree on. USHPA would love for those disagreements to completely isolate our efforts. But it's not their choice - it's yours.

Thanks for your time.

I called because I wanted to get the word out about a fairly important development in hang gliding.

Yeah.

I assumed that would include actually posting about it.

No you didn't. You asked me to help get the word out and I said I would. And I was set to post a copy of the same post you did. At about the end of the conversation I said that if you agreed to stick to the deal under which I first restored your wire I'd plug it back in. You agreed and I did almost immediately at 2017/08/03 20:03:10 UTC. This is why it's dangerous to talk to you on the phone. Things aren't recorded in unambiguous black and white.

You know how to "cut my wires" by now...

I know how to uncut them too. You undoubtedly hold a world record for getting a wire uncut on a hang glider forum thanks to Kite Strings.

...so do whatever you want.

I wanna turn the clock back to an hour before noon Tuesday. There's not much more I really care about now.

It's a burden that virtually no other sport is forced to carry.

That's 'cause they're aren't any other sports outside of conventional regulated aviation in which people can get and stay airborne (lumping us with paragliders for the purpose of the exercise).

That's why I asked permission to share it here.

Again. You asked ME to publicize the development.

Kite Strings may only have 11 active members, but any one of those 11 could be the link to huge segments of hang gliding population (as in the movie "Pay it Forward").

They COULD be. But:

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27494
The exciting bits

Steve Davy - 2012/04/27 01:55:17 UTC

Why did you delete my post?

Davis Straub - 2012/04/27 02:42:02 UTC

Tad's name.

As I've said many times, there's much that we disagree on.

Yeah. I still suffer under the delusion that a Quavis bent pin aerotow release that welds itself shut in normal tow tension ranges IS the BIG DEAL I make of it.

USHPA would love for those disagreements to completely isolate our efforts.

They would if there was no actual substance to any sides of disagreements.

But it's not their choice - it's yours.

The implication being that I've gotta meet you halfway times two.

Thanks for your time.

Don't mention it. Got lots of it now without my little bird to feed, fly, train, cuddle, take care of. And not being able to sleep frees up lotsa hours too.

If there was a misunderstanding about me posting, you can easily click this entire topic into oblivion.

hanggliding.org wrote:No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

That's an example of what you don't want to become.

Tad wrote:

Bob wrote:But it's not their choice - it's yours.

The implication being that I've gotta meet you halfway times two.

No. The implication is that we focus on breaking up the monopolies that are currently strangling the sport (USHPA and Jack come to mind). It's those monopolies that stifle ALL efforts at reforming the sport.

Tad wrote:[quote=""Bob"]Thanks for your time.

Don't mention it. Got lots of it now without my little bird to feed, fly, train, cuddle, take care of. And not being able to sleep frees up lotsa hours too.[/quote]
As I said on the phone, I'm sorry for your loss. But it's important to remember that birds weren't designed to be fed, trained, cuddled, or taken care of. They were designed to take a gamble that their own unique set of genes would serve them well in an often brutal world. I know you did your best for Quinn, but you didn't get to make up the rules. Don't blame yourself for this one.

There's no way to misinterpret or misrepresent what's being stated.

You underestimate my ability to misinterpret what's being stated, Tad.

It could mean that several pilots at Dockweiler have been working to loosen USHPA's death grip on the sport of hang gliding or, USHPA has a death grip on the sport of hang gliding at Dockweiler and several pilots are working to loosen that grip.

Steve...

Yeah. Not clicking on all the cylinders very well now. Couldn't see it.

Bob...

If there was a misunderstanding about me posting, you can easily click this entire topic into oblivion.

- I know.

- I don't EVER do that. I despise destruction of people's work and obliteration of history. I leave that to Davis, Jack, Peter, the Rocky Mountain douchebags...

That's an example of what you don't want to become.

No possibility. I've had the buttons for the better part of seven years now and there's been no hint of anything along those lines. In fact Kite Strings THRIVES on quoted posts of poison-to-the-sport types. It was Christmas every time Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney opened his fuckin' mouth about anything. And he FINALLY figured that out after his "friend" got splattered at Quest by the focal point of his safe towing system and the standard aerotow weak link Ponzi scheme collapsed.

As I said on the phone, I'm sorry for your loss.

Thanks.

But it's important to remember that birds weren't designed...

Birds weren't DESIGNED to do anything. On 2005/12/20 a federal judge appointed by the George W. Bush told the Dover (Pennsylvania) Area School District they were constitutionally prevented from teaching otherwise.

...to be fed, trained, cuddled, or taken care of.

Yeah. They're EVOLVED be fed, cuddled, and taken care of. And the training I was giving her was to get her up to speed with the stuff she'd have learned in the wild if she'd been in it without clipped wings. Take away food, affection, care from a lot of intelligent social animals and the results ain't good.

They were designed to take a gamble that their own unique set of genes would serve them well in an often brutal world.

And that differs from Homo sapiens how?

I know you did your best for Quinn...

And Kelly Harrison did his best for Arys Moorhead. Similar results.

...but you didn't get to make up the rules.

I totally got to make up the rules - the relevant ones anyway.

Don't blame yourself for this one.

Probably shouldn't blame Pat Denevan for Nancy Tachibana either. Yeah, I totally blame myself for this one and it will haunt me for the rest of my life.

And lemme tell ya sumpin' about these birds. A lot of their social interactions, relationships, emotions are IDENTICAL to ours. People love and care about and for them and they reciprocate.

The Carolina Parakeet which had a surprisingly wide range in the US was blasted into extinction about a hundred years ago and a lot of us humans will tell you that the quality of their lives are consequently greatly diminished. If they'd been kept and bred by us humans at the time they wouldn't have been.

The Monk Parrot is a VERY close match for that one, it has been kept and bred by us humans, and consequently it's expanded its range all over the fuckin' planet. That's how natural selection can/does actually operate in the real world.

Tell ya sumpin' else, Bob... Neither one of us fits very well into the classic and stupidly oversimplified natural selection model of directly contributing genetic material into next generations. So if I were you I'd be real careful about blanket proclamations of what birds are and aren't designed to do.

Let's review this topic from a typical USHPA insider's point of view.
Bob: Big news about breaking USHPA's insurance monopoly!
USHPA Insiders: Oh crap. Now it's getting posted on KiteStrings too!!
Steve Davy: Dangling Participle! Dangling Participle!
USHPA Insiders: Yes!! Nice diversion Stevy!!
Tad: Told you not to post Bob!!!
USHPA Insiders: Yes. Yes. Talk about banning. Talk about banning!!
Tad: Fuck the hang gliding "community".
USHPA Insiders: Goody! Goody! Copy that quote for future reference!
Tad: US Hawks isn't international.
USHPA Insiders: Another nice diversion!! WooHoo!
Tad: Monday and Tuesday are revokable crumbs.
USHPA Insiders: Way to play it down Tad!!
Bob: The big breakthrough is the insurance issue.
USHPA Insiders: Oh crap, Bob's back on topic.
Tad: I told you not to post. I told you not to post.
USHPA insiders: Saved by another Tadiversion!!
Bob: Let's focus on breaking USHPA's monopoly.
Steve Davy: It was too a dangling participle!
Tad: You're right Steve ... Davis Jack Peter Rooney ... and ... Evolution.
USHPA Insiders: Whew! That was close! Nothing to worry about here guys. Let's play another round of poker while we spend the members' money putting us up in this fancy hotel.

Let's review this topic from a typical USHPA insider's point of view.

Rather than address in actual substance anything from my previous post.

Bob: Big news about breaking USHPA's insurance monopoly!

Bob who, let's remind our readers, was banned by Tad from Kite Strings 2012/05/07 12:38:07 UTC, well over five years ago, for very legitimate reasons and over the objections of no other members of Kite Strings or anything else.

USHPA Insiders: Oh crap. Now it's getting posted on KiteStrings too!!

USHPA Insiders have learned they can't afford to acknowledge the existence of Kite Strings and Tad and bend over backwards not to do so. I take that as the highest of compliments.

Give Dr. Trisa Tilletti's fourteen page 2012/06 magazine article singing the praises of the miraculous 130 pound precision fishing line we use as the focal point of our safe aerotowing system and the three thinly veiled references to T** at K*** S******. And note that references to Tad and the aforementioned fishing line disappeared from the mainstream rather abruptly at about the same time in the wake of the mysterious 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality.

Steve Davy: Dangling Participle! Dangling Participle!

Good catch, Steve.

Accurate and logical use of language is critical in the flying game and most of the posts here pass muster pretty well.

And you should appreciate that Steve's reading your posts carefully enough to make a catch like that - one that I couldn't see even after reading the article to get up to speed on what a dangling participle is. As I really appreciate both Steve and Brian carefully (proof)reading my work and notifying me after damn near all of my posts of everything from typos to MAJOR fuckups.

And kudos to the guys here who have posted / are posting in English as a non first language - after French, Norwegian, German, Russian.

USHPA Insiders: Yes!! Nice diversion Stevy!!

- I'da gone with "Stevie".

- Yeah, huge diversion. Whereas all of your Homosexual-Relationship-With-A-12-Year-Old-Boy posts were so right on the mark - over and over and over and...

Tad: Told you not to post Bob!!!

Whatsamattah Bob? Couldn't use an actual quote?

USHPA Insiders: Yes. Yes. Talk about banning. Talk about banning!! !!

- We're not talking about banning. You ARE banned - primarily for sabotaging all of our efforts to bring hang gliding in line with sane conventional aviation SOPs. Your posts are violations of the terms you agreed to when I last reconnected your wire. But notice nobody's pulling your plug or threatening to at this point.

- Furthermore, everything relevant you say elsewhere gets quoted and responded to here and every request of yours to have stuff posted here has been honored.

- But I don't get the time of day on The Bob Show 'cause you've gotta protect all your people of varying ages from my deviant predations. (How noble.)

Tad: Fuck the hang gliding "community".
USHPA Insiders: Goody! Goody! Copy that quote for future reference!

- And make sure you get it properly filed so there's no confusion with our extensive Lloyds of London database.

- The hang gliding community is a product of Tim Herr's. And so consequently and obviously there are ZILLIONS of such references on Kite Strings. Why do you think the most recent one is worthy of comment?

Tad: US Hawks isn't international.

Yeah, let's get those walls up. America first. Let's make it great again.

USHPA Insiders: Another nice diversion!! WooHoo!

Yeah, jumping for joy.

Tad: Monday and Tuesday are revokable crumbs.
USHPA Insiders: Way to play it down Tad!!

Serious issue. You have a precedent of a commercial interest controlling a public resource to the detriment of the interests of the recreational pilot. My involvement in hang gliding began in the spring of 1980 and I can tell you from the better part of four decades experience and observation that you can be 100.00 percent POSITIVE that in these situations the non privileged entities WILL be fucked over. And DockGreblo's is most assuredly no exception.

Bob: The big breakthrough is the insurance issue.
USHPA Insiders: Oh crap, Bob's back on topic.
Tad: I told you not to post. I told you not to post.

Get fucked. The insurance thing is all about RULES. You got banned for gross violations of just about all of the extremely lenient ones here, you're violating the rule to which you agreed for getting reconnected, and you're violating another rule by misrepresenting what's been stated in this discussion. And what's new.

USHPA insiders: Saved by another Tadiversion!!

Should be getting my Exceptional Service Award notification in the mail any day now.

Bob: Let's focus on breaking USHPA's monopoly.
Steve Davy: It was too a dangling participle!

See above.

Tad: You're right Steve ... Davis Jack Peter Rooney ... and ... Evolution.

Just a theory. Just the opinion of a few atheist liberal scientists. Certainly nothing to use as a model for understanding how life on this planet actually works. For that we have Emperor Bob's proclamations on what birds and humans were DESIGNED by their Creator to do - and how various interactions are to be permitted or outlawed.

USHPA Insiders: Whew! That was close! Nothing to worry about here guys.

Bull fucking shit.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/faq.php
Frequently Asked Questions

What will keep the US Hawks from becoming another USHPA or HGAA?
You will ... hopefully. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Everyone has to do their part once in a while. If you see something that's not being done correctly, then it's your duty to speak out. One big difference between the US Hawks and other organizations is that the US Hawks really does honor the free speech of its members.

Just be sure to keep your free speech, members and non, wherever you exercise it, in line with what Emperor Bob wants.

No thanks, Bob. I'll discuss things as I bloody well please whenever I bloody well please. And THAT's the profile that scares u$hPa Insiders shitless.