Weak links

[Steve Davy]

This idiot infested sport is not even capable of doing the same things over and over and expecting different results. It does the same things over and over and accepts the same pathetic results.

Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results would be a monumental leap for hang gliding culture.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.lajollalight.com/news/local-news/sd-gliderport-sailplane-ucsd-growth-20170613-story.html
Gliderport use threatened by UCSD growth; University says it looks for 'best use' of the land - La Jolla Light

María José Durán - 2017/06/14 08:50 PDT
Contact Reporter

http://www.trbimg.com/img-59405770/turbine/sd-1497388907-fi8qmu3n6n-snap-image/1600/1600x900


What's a sailplane?

A sailplane or glider is an airworthy vehicle that flies without an engine, manned by a pilot. To make that possible, Fogel said, the secret is in the takeoff. "If you're flying a kite, and you have a tight string and pull on it, (the kite) goes up. If you pull on that line really quickly, it will go up really quickly. It's the same thing for the gliders," he explained.

Jerry Forburger - 1990/10

High line tensions reduce the pilot's ability to control the glider and we all know that the killer "lockout" is caused by high towline tension.

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Fortunately, we have good defenses against lockouts. These defenses include limiting the tow forces by using weak links and pressure gauges...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3661
Flying the 914 Dragonfly

Jim Rooney - 2008/12/06 20:01:49 UTC

You will only ever need full throttle for the first fifty feet of a tandem tow. Don't ever pull a solo at full throttle... they will not be able to climb with you. You can tow them at 28 mph and you'll still leave them in the dust... they just won't be able to climb with you... weaklinks will go left and right.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart

Jim Rooney - 2007/09/01 02:39:53 UTC

Which brings us to the reason to have a 914 in the first place... you need one.
Something made you get a 914 instead of a 582. 914s are horribly expensive to own and maintain. If you own one, you need it... it's a safety thing.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 17:34:33 UTC

Do NOT skip this little bit...

pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that

See, Russel knows what's up.
He knows that you're changing the equation and because of this, you need to ask the tug pilot.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC

The accepted standards and practices changed.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.007
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/09 08:00:00 UTC

Exciting in the tow paddock and then we go back to Ivanhoe.

With the winds still strong after five days it is blowing out of the south south west at the tow paddock. This makes for exciting towing. Two pilots smack in right off the dollies and one throws his chute just behind the tow paddock after locking out on tow and tumbling. I almost tumble at 400' when I release from tow too high. I climb out to 1,600' and come back to land as I'm moving too quickly down wind. Numerous dust devils race through the tow lines. Everyone ends up okay.

http://ozreport.com/9.019
Dodgy launch at the Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/23 09:00

Here's what a pilot taking his second aerotow ever at the Worlds in Hay looks like.

http://ozreport.com/redirect.php?file=prang

The pilot almost hits Jim Zeiset riding his recumbent bicycle and then hits the cart. Of course he didn't tell the Worlds organizers that he had no experience aerotowing.

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http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2017/06/25

A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

[Steve Davy]

Absolute incompetence:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).

Non-absolute incompetence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1Icd3MFmWc

[Steve Davy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd9QxRPb3hk

[Tad Eareckson]

Jump to next post:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post10365.html#p10365

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEuTPbfhJJk
Combat Snap

Max Kotchouro - 2016/12/28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEuTPbfhJJk

Carlos León

So, what exactly happened? did the fuse just snap?

Yeah, the fuse just snapped.

Max Kotchouro

Weaklink snapped. Yes.

Prevented the dangerous overload we saw developing.

Steve Davy

Totally pathetic. I bet that you still have no fucking clue what the function of a weak link is and never will.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 17:34:33 UTC

Remember, a weak link improves safety.
Say it over and over and over in your head until it sinks in.

You are an embarrassment to the sport, Max.

Yeah, but not too much more than pretty much anybody else.

Max Kotchouro

Thank you very much steve davy. I really appreciate your input. I am very sorry I upset you so deeply with my incompetence. Now, can you please enlighten me - what is a weak link, and what is its function? Thank you.

To break before you can get into too much trouble. Yours worked flawlessly - as has been proven by literally hundreds of thousands of tows.

Crystals848

You did a 90 mile xc this trip, and just did a 52 mile XC literally this weekend when nobody else could leave and then this asshat gets on and whines that you offended him because you launched in mid-day conditions, snapped a link, and landed safely in a topless.

Yeah, those midday conditions can be pretty brutal. Just think what would almost certainly happened if he'd been flying with a Tad-O-Link.

The irony: the link did exactly what it was designed to do- break under excess stress.

Hard to argue with that statement.

Jealous pleb.

avisaurus

steve davy you're a complete douche bag. The weak link worked as it was supposed to.

Flawlessly. As did Zack Marzec's a little shy of four years prior at the same AT park.

Apparently it is you who has no clue.

Apparently.

Crystals848

Steve Davy - USHPA 88875 - H3 - 2010/04/14 - Michael Jefferson - FL ST AWCL CL FSL - Exp: 2016/03/31

Lookout everybody, we've got an expired intermediate professional with no AT rating here!

Yeah, let's get a Paul or Lauren Tjaden in here to set things right.

Max Kotchouro

What? No AT rating. Steve, you are my hero. I am really interested in your opinion about weaklinks. I'll take theory over practice any day of the week.

Keep practicing, Max. Always makes perfect.

Steve Davy

Fuck my opinion, Max. Do your own homework. This:
http://www.kitestrings.org/topic6.html
is a good place to start.

And we'll obviously never be finished.

Max Kotchouro

I am wholeheartedly agree with both of those statements.

I am so sorry Steve. I thought I've done my homework, but maybe I missed a page. But I do tend to practice a lot. Do you? What do you fly, and how often do you aerotow?

If he DID aerotow he'd be getting a lot less practice than you do.

But nevermind, it is just idle curiosity on my part. It's irrelevant. If you don't want to share your opinion, maybe you could clarify your original, so eloquently delivered, statement? And also method of your deduction, if you don't mind.

How 'bout instead you explain to us the reason(s) you use what you do and the expectations you have of it?

I obviously done something so dramatic in that video that completely upset all your flying senses.

No, you did something so totally routine that nobody thinks anything's the slightest bit wrong.

Maybe you can still educate me so I can be a better pilot?

Not a snowball's chance in hell. If you could've been educated you would've been already.

And if that is too much to ask, then you could always stop by and show us how it's done? Face to face. That is the best way to share your knowledge and skills with flying community.

Fer sure. It's not like anyone could ever learn anything by reading and understanding theory.

Crystals848

Max his opinion: A link to other peoples opinions.
The lack of AT rating would more than likely be why he can't give any input, due to lack of personal knowledge.

avisaurus

steve davy see you at Lookout...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TTTFlymail/message/11545
Cart stuck incidents

Keith Skiles - 2011/06/02 19:50:13 UTC

I witnessed the one at Lookout. It was pretty ugly. Low angle of attack, too much speed and flew off the cart like a rocket until the weak link broke, she stalled and it turned back towards the ground.

...and we can discuss your theoretical opinions on aero towing, in person. Oh wait, your rating expired a year and a half ago, so you're a keyboard pilot now.

Suck my dick, Ryan clone.

And you've been kicked off a forum ushawks.org for being a rude douche bag, then you changed your name to 'nobody', but then got found out and kicked off again!

What's your source on that?

Do everyone in the community a favor and piss off.

Yeah, that would do the community a favor.

Kevin Webb

Too much bandwidth and angst has been wasted on such a worthless individual. I'll leave mine at: Steve Daly, I fart in your general direction. Now please go back to jerking off to videos of things that you can only fantasize about doing.

I remember fantasizing about towing up safely and competently behind an ultralight aircraft.

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Good to go, everything's set, preflighted, in perfect order.

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And give it a good push to keep the fuse from getting overloaded unnecessarily.

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Survives the shock loading from the 914 propwash blast.

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Tow ends right about here.

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Bar fully stuffed in response to the increase in the safety of the towing operation.

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Tug airborne for another safe and free take-off and landing cycle.

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And wasn't that fun.

Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post10363.html#p10363

[Tad Eareckson]

Jump to next post:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post10366.html#p10366

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRw1SV3sA5w
Snap

Max Kotchouro - 2015/07/14

weaklink snapped coming out of the cart.

- This time at Tanner-Hiller Airport in Massachusetts (42°21'23.36" N 072°07'47.69" W) seventeen and a half months prior.
- Any thoughts on why you're flying with a weak link that routinely blows as you're coming out of the cart?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks

Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.

Have you read any of the info from the guy named Tad in the old threads and considered alternate viewpoints?

avisaurus

Another perfect example of why wheels are important.

And why weak links capable of getting you up over twenty feet aren't.

Glad you're ok!

Why shouldn't he be?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.

How come nobody ever says "Glad you're OK!" to someone who's stayed on tow to two thousand feet?

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Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post10365.html#p10365

[Tad Eareckson]

And from Morningside fourteen and a half months before that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYdSi9A37Ms
Aerotow - weak link break

Max Kotchouro - 2014/04/26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYdSi9A37Ms

Max Kotchouro

Little excitement on the very first tow of 2014 at Morningside Flight Park

Excitement? Excitement would've been STAYING ON tow.

Randy Brown

Good recovery

From what? How is it possible to recover from a situation in which the serious threat has just been eliminated?

Tom Lanning

Yeehaw!

01-0316
- 01 - chronological order
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- 16 - frame (30 fps)

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Note the near dowtube suddenly go curvy.

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Thanks bigtime for bringing a little light into my life, Max. Some hope for things to change for the better. Really needed the boost right now. Keep up the great work and constantly getting better and better results.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5730
Airspeed is What You Need - DON'T LET YOUR GUARD DOWN!

NMERider - 2017/08/04 20:48:30 UTC

Yesterday, we had a pilot get turned by a thermal on the Crestline ramp. He did not have the speed or altitude to recover and it cost him a leading edge and other repairs.

Must not have been using an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less. One of those Tad-O-Links fer sure. (Where's Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney when ya really need him.)

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2017/08/11

A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

[Tad Eareckson]

Eclipse chase mostly beaten to death, maybe time to get back to hang gliding.

From Aleksey 2017/08/16 09:14:57 UTC two important videos...

First, from 2017/04/16:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6SJN-_FJNo


Gives us great looks at the stuff being used to get the glider airborne: tow vehicle, trailer, winch driver (Aleksey, I think) seat, winch, tension gauge, electric rewind motor assembly, hand cranked level-wind, glider cradle, hold downs, nose tether release (spinnaker shackle mechanism, bicycle brake lever actuator), retrieval parachute assembly and staging basket, swivel, Kaluzhin release (shoulder mounted, engaging bridle end).

And from 2017/08/01 a totally awesome smoking gun video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alOVwEe0P-g
АТОЛ. Сход с креном.
Дмитрий Миловский - 2017/08/01
dead

Give it a watch, using the earlier video as a reference to fill in the gaps but noting several mostly irrelevant alterations, then we'll pick it apart frame by frame.

But first a few points...

This failed attempt at a low level lockout is more severe than anything we've ever seen in an actual successful catastrophic lockout.

Zack C - 2011/03/04 05:29:28 UTC

As for platform launching, I was nervous about it when I started doing it. It looked iffy, like things could get bad fast. I've since logged around a hundred platform launches and have seen hundreds more. Never once was there any issue. I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions). You get away from the ground very quickly and don't launch until you have plenty of airspeed and excellent control.

Case freakin' closed. Imagine a comparable roll and heading change on an aerotow or...

http://alpenhornnews.com/clients/alpenhornnews/6-29-2016-10-53-34-PM-9824120.gif


...free flight foot launch. Instead of a fatality we complete the tow like nothing the least bit out of the ordinary happened. Airspeed, competent power management, climb, no fuckin':
- Infallible Weak Link
- douchebags wired to fix whatever's going on back there by giving you the rope

Prone at all times.

BOTH hands on the CONTROL bar in CONTROL position for all flight time save for no more than a quarter second after the pilot pops the nose release.

I'd say the pitch is set too high. Basetube lifts out of the brackets on both sides.

01-00639
- 01 - chronological order
- -0 - minutes
- 06 - seconds
- 39 - frame (48 fps)

With the tow vehicle (same as in Video 1) turned/angled to port of the trailer's centerline and with the camera mounted on the top of the vehicle's stern we can see something of the nose release configuration.

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Is the rather steep starboard roll of everything as a consequence of the rather steep shoulder drop-off an issue contributing to what happens on takeoff? Did people become acclimated to it during loading, preflighting, readying?

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Starboard crewperson controlling brake pressure / towline tension. Note pilot gripping hold-downs. There's a bit of air movement but not likely enough to have any significant effect on anything.

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Glider's level, camera's rolled clockwise (looking aft) a bit such that horizon isn't horizontal.

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Camera mount is a bit to the port of centerline.

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I'm thinking the starboard crewperson is checking the pressure gauge. Starboard maybe an airspeed indicator (although such an instrument seems to be absent in the earlier video).

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Major daylight between starboard side of basetube and bracket. Port side low but floating or on the verge.

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Fully broken out from cloud shadow into full sunlight. Note high contrast shadows on pavement and shoulder.

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Glider is severely rolled to starboard. Pilot not:
- using hold-downs to any effect, pilot
- pulling in and weight shifting for roll control

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Right hand off and up to smack nose release actuation lever. What's everybody think is gonna happen immediately after successful execution?

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First frame post nose release.

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Again flying glider with two hands. Good time to start pulling in and getting over to the left.

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Port tip catches in vegetation firmly enough to flex the outboard leading edge.

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Tip catches a second time, leading edge flexes a second time. The winglet is NOT helping in this situation.

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Note the distinct lack of interest in the pressure (tension) gauge. If you wanna know what's going on with the fuckin' glider then watch the fuckin' glider. (Although, yeah, would've been a lot better if someone back there had had his or her brain properly engaged when the glider was on the platform gearing up for lockout mode.)

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Not until after the retrieval parachute assembly is fully deployed from its staging basket does towline tension come into play. The glider's initial climb is all due to / dependent upon the airspeed generated while the glider's on the platform.

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Pretty much perpendicular to the intended flight path.

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Not until this point does towline tension BEGIN to enter the equation - and extremely mildly at that, given that we're using a payout winch and have at least two qualified observers giving the situation their undivided attention and one of them adjusting tension as she (?) deems appropriate. Up to this frame this is a free flight launch. The physics of hang glider towing have been entirely absent - and given the alignment situation that's a really good thing.

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http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

And what if the rope isn't actually doing anything? Please tell us how giving it to us - and thus depriving us of any possibility of future benefit - will fix anything.

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And here, well under a second from the point at which the towline started transmitting tension (two frames above), we have things getting back under control. Really remarkable given that these ignorant peasants lack the benefit of any guidance from either Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney or Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight - let alone both of them.

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Naw, I don't remember anything uncomfortable happening. What are you talking about?

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Note the nice level-wound line payout as the tow progresses.

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Nice tow road...

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Look at the horizon back where we started rolling.

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Thanks zillions for this one - plus the other for background, context, Aleksey. A textbook case unrivaled by anything else out there. Extremely valuable antidote to the fictional crap that's been perpetrated for nearly two decades in the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden.

P.S. I've posted it in the "Weak links" topic 'cause it's such a totally awesome illustration of why statements such as:

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Weak links very clearly will provide protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns and the like for this form of towing.

are such total loads o' crap.