Weak links

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26134
Whipstall almost tumble
NMERider - 2011/12/24 01:06:41 UTC

A higher aspect ratio glider would have probably tumbled with a less happy outcome. Kudos to everyone involved in posting this video.
And kudos to you for posting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTa6XL16i0U
SCFR Day 2 Highlights
LAGlide - 2011/09/20
dead
021-02800
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057-03703

this one.

Do you see any kind of pattern starting to emerge from these two videos? Some element common to both which precipitates the undesirable elements of both flights? Some lesson which might be taken away such that future videos might be a bit less interesting? Just kidding.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Zack C - 2011/01/10 14:43:39 UTC

Who's Mike Bomstad?
Got it now?

Everybody notice how after making several astoundingly stupid, totally backwards statements Wonder Boy just slinks back out of the conversation without addressing any of the questions, points, or evidence put forth by Rodent, Zack, and Mike?

Everybody notice how Rooney wasn't in this conversation telling everybody how...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC

The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
...the purpose of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation, PERIOD?

And where's Peter Birren, USHGA's highly esteemed 2006 NAA Safety Award recipient...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7066
AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Peter Birren - 2009/05/10 01:33:57 UTC

If you want a truly foolproof release, it's got to be one that eliminates the pilot from the equation with a release that operates automatically.
...singing the praises of his Pitch and Lockout Limiter which operates automatically to eliminate the pilot from the equation - just as this de facto weak link nearly did?

It's almost always at least as important to note what's not being said and who's not saying it as it is to analyze the stuff that appears on the screen.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=24293
planning trip to lookout
Devin Wagner - 2011/12/24 00:55:18 UTC
Yankton, South Dakota

perry and i are planning a trip down May 18-27 plus friends are comming with there 4 girls.
im planning on bring the S2, the C4 with the soaring harness and the mosquito harness.
i did alot of flying in utah and still not foot launch rated will i be forced to the training hill or just a watched take off the mountain.
4X8 - 2011/12/24 22:14:33 UTC

This summer I got my H2 up there. GREAT bunch of people and terrific training! However, I was told point blank from Matt Taber that if I bought a hang glider from anyone other than LMFP I would have to pay for an inspection. The cost was about $250.00
I KNOW at least one person who was subject to this policy...
So call them and ask! And please report back.
Paul Edwards - 2011/12/24 22:40:07 UTC
Tennessee

OK, yeah, he does do that. It only applies to students that train there.
fly,surf,&ski - 2011/12/25 01:10:03 UTC
Torrey Pines

I really can't fault Matt for this one, as he has a Responsibility to his students as far as their first glider purchase being airworthy. The student cannot be expected to be able to inspect the glider themselves, and unless a friend who is also an experienced pilot got them into the sport, chances are they don't have a mentor right when they get their H2....

$250 does not seem unreasonable for a large shop, as even taking the sail off a pulse (have done it, so I know) is a total pain in the ass.
(the motorcycle dealership I work at charges $95 an hour for Labor)

Now for the "Push out and fly off in Mush Mode" Cliff/Radial Ramp launch technique they teach there, well it's XMAS so don't even get me started on that one....

(BTW Wag I would wager that between your powered harness and working with Ryan, and/or Shadd you already have stronger foot launch technique than a new LMFP H2)
Tom Galvin - 2011/12/25 02:44:51 UTC
Pagosa Springs, Colorado

What if he doesn't do an inspection and a student kills themselves with dodgy second hand gear.
Alan Wengren (HangDog) - 2011/12/25 05:22:37 UTC

OH I guess that wouldn't be as bad as someone from the general public who takes a ride on a tandem flight and dies because LMFP don't use Weak links on any of their flights!! Yeah that's right! they don't use weak links at all on any of their flights because they are always breaking so they done away with that routine when I was taking my training a few years ago and said they doubt they would ever go back to them!

Because of that, I never got my tow rating and could really care less if I do at al. I like to run off of a mountain the way Hang Gliders were intended to fly and I don't have to worry about getting in a lockout with a solid line attached and not being able to break loose with a weak link if needed during a lock out or something.

And yeah, If they always expect to inspect a hang glider that was purchased somewhere else then that's a double edge sword there. What the hell happen to PILOT IN COMMAND He should be the one who has the final say so as to who says that wing is in a flyable condition not an inspection. It's the pilot's duties to make sure his wing is in good shape to fly and not Matt's deep pockets. It's too political.

Oh and what about the time when three different people I know of personally went to buy gliders from Matt and had to sign a paper stating that you could not sell your wing to anyone else except back to Matt if you choose to sell it later on down the road! WHAT KIND OF BS IS THAT!!

If Matt is that worried about bad gliders flying off his ramp then he better start using Weak links on his tandem flights or something serious is going to happen and he'll be handing LMFP to new owners one day and then all the paperwork will start. The pilot or passenger may not be able to sue because of his signature on a waiver form but the family of that passenger or pilot will be able too and then LM will be shut down until further investigation of the incident.

The only way I would fly there is launch off of the Bandit Ramp which supposedly Matt has no control over or better yet, head over to Tennessee Tree Toppers!. A few instructors have left Matt's establishment solely for the purpose of being tired of all the BS.

If you want to fly a Mosquito there then you better make sure they have a full line of tools in their shop cause Matt will probably want to do an overhaul on the engine just to say: OK it's flyable! now sign my waivers!

LMFP is too political, I doubt If I'll ever launch off his ramp again. There are too many other places I can fly without the BS
OK, yeah, he does do that. It only applies to students that train there.
NO NO man it didn't apply to only students when I was there. I had almost 28 hrs of flying there which is way over a new student status and then bought a glider from Quest Air a couple months later and he still wanted to inspect it because I didn't buy it from him. That was total bullshit.
4X8 - 2011/12/25 16:56:17 UTC

I got my AT rating/sign-off their this summer. GREAT training and at that time they were using weak links. I know because part of my instruction was how to tie the knot.
Alan Wengren - 2011/12/25 18:19:02 UTC

Yes they may use links for students because it's part of the training but they didn't use them for the general public when they give out rides because there's no training involved so what the general public don't know won't hurt them right? but in this case it could only kill them!.

I have a few pictures of one of my tandem flights that clearly shows the lack of any weak links on my towline. I made that one flight and that was it. I still have two more tickets left I never used. My life is worth a lot more then $200 but I'll sell them to you if you want to use them. $100 each instead of the regular price of 150 LOL
John Stokes - 2011/12/25 22:22:30 UTC
Trenton, Georgia

Hey,

Lookout doesn't require inspection of a visiting pilot's glider (unless you want one). They will want to see you Ratings card and will probably ask a few questions. I think a weekend pass is something like $20. The Treetoppers weekend pass is $25. While you're here, you really need to go over and fly Henson's. It is a beautiful site with a great LZ and a bunch of wonderful people to boot. It is also a very laid back place and I guess the person that comes to mind as being the most laid back at Henson's is Clark Harlow.
Channing Kilgore - 2011/12/26 01:25:54 UTC
Whitwell, Tennessee

ditto on the Henson's place..we have several former 'Lookout' folks at Henson's due to the stuff at LMFP..i woulda been a member at both but i did the unpardonable and bought a glider outside of Lookout and heard one of the instructors complain about me not giving them my money..i paid 1800 for my glider w/ a vario and LMFP wanted 3800 for the same model glider that was not as good as shape as mine...now that folks is trying to take advantage of newbies in the sport..that's low in my book.....btw, class act at LMPF is Gordon Cayce IMHO..girls in shop are great too...$250 is way too much for sail off inspection...clark harlow can do it as good or better for better price
-as far as the pilots there having jobs, most get paid scraps...they get about 10 bucks for a tandem while the Park gets the rest...not sure how the high prices at LMFP are helping the aspiring pilots/tandem guys...
Dombaj - 2011/12/26 11:46:21 UTC

This is all well known fact about lookout.
Extortion and making new pilots into paying double or triple for an old gliders.
Sure nice place to fly up to a point when you just can't take it anymore and have to say go F... Yourself.
Zack C - 2011/12/28 00:12:34 UTC

HangDog,

It sounds like you think weak links are necessary to save people from lockouts. The weak link cannot be relied on to do this and that is not its job. Its job is to keep the glider from breaking. Lookout's tandems are in no danger of breaking because they have a weak link on the tug end of the tow rope. Thus, the only real danger not having a weak link on the glider end is exposing them to is the tow line snagging something on the ground and pulling the glider into a dive after the tug weak link breaks near the ground and the instructor doesn't release. That's a lot of problems that have to coincide for it to be an issue, and even if they were using a glider weak link, there's a good chance the tug weak link would break first anyway.

I'm not advocating their practice...just saying it's not as big a deal as you suggest.

As for 'the way Hang Gliders were intended to fly'...perhaps you should review the history of hang gliding.
However, I was told point blank from Matt Taber that if I bought a hang glider from anyone other than LMFP I would have to pay for an inspection.
The implication being that a glider purchased from Lookout WOULD, of course, have undergone a thorough sail off inspection.
I really can't fault Matt for this one, as he has a Responsibility to his students as far as their first glider purchase being airworthy.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction
Antoine Saraf - 2011/07/14 08:33:59 UTC

After several dysfunctions encountered by tandem, using a V-bridle and a 145kg wl on the apex, so a maximum load of 83kg on this primary release, I sent 3 times this email to fly@hanglide.com (LMFP contact) without any answer !!!
Ya know just how fast a factory fresh dolly launched Wills Wing Falcon 3 195 and its driver can be converted to a smoldering pile of totaled wreckage because of one the piece o' shit defective aerotow releases Matt spews out all over the world? Responsibility my ass.
The student cannot be expected to be able to inspect the glider themselves...
Yeah?
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
02. Rating Requirements
06. Beginner Hang Gliding Rating (H-1)
-B. Beginner Rating - Required Witnessed Tasks

01. Set up and preflight of glider and harness, to include familiarity with owner's manual(s).
Why the hell not? What's it take in the way of brains, training, and/or experience to detect dented, cracked, bent, frayed, or torn tubing, bolts, wires, or sails?

The goddam student is supposed to be able to do all this before he's signed off on his Hang One.
What if he doesn't do an inspection and a student kills themselves with dodgy second hand gear.
- I dunno... The student will need to be buried or cremated or donated to a medical school?
- How many rated pilots have had so much as their knees scratched in the course of the past thirty years as results of dodgy second hand gear?
- How many rated pilots have been seriously fucked up or killed because:
-- they were taught:
--- that wheels were never to be considered as landing gear?
--- to do hang checks so they could assume they were hooked in on launch?
-- of shit Flight Park Mafia tow equipment and Industry Standard weak links which will break before they can get into too much trouble?
I like to run off of a mountain the way Hang Gliders were intended to fly and I don't have to worry about getting in a lockout with a solid line attached and not being able to break loose with a weak link if needed during a lock out or something.
So Lookout doesn't fly with weak links and you don't fly with a release. Interesting.
If Matt is that worried about bad gliders flying off his ramp then he better start using Weak links on his tandem flights or something serious is going to happen and he'll be handing LMFP to new owners one day and then all the paperwork will start.
Does it occur to you that, despite the fact that Lookout hasn't been using weak links on their tandem gliders and have been doing zillions of tows per season, there haven't been any incidents?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TTTFlymail/message/11545
Cart stuck incidents
Keith Skiles - 2011/06/02 19:50:13 UTC

I witnessed the one at Lookout. It was pretty ugly. Low angle of attack, too much speed and flew off the cart like a rocket until the weak link broke, she stalled and it turned back towards the ground.
And that, in fact, the vast majority of their tow incidents are CAUSED BY the weak links links they train other people to use to...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC

The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.
...increase the safety of the towing operation, PERIOD?
I know because part of my instruction was how to tie the knot.
GREAT!!! And:
- what material, pray tell, where you using to tie the knot?
- why were you using that particular material?
I have a few pictures of one of my tandem flights that clearly shows the lack of any weak links on my towline.
Yeah, I've got one of your pictures that clearly shows that too. Thank you.
Lookout's tandems are in no danger of breaking because they have a weak link on the tug end of the tow rope.
No they don't. They have a single weak link at the top end of the bridle.
Thus, the only real danger not having a weak link on the glider end...
No, there's a MUCH bigger danger than that.

Lockout, tug (only) weak link blows, bridle wraps on the tow ring. Now NONE of the releases in the system are protected from overload. The tug's Schweizer type release is reasonably good but the rest of them - as we all well know - totally suck. I wouldn't advise anybody about whom I gave a rat's ass to go up on that bullshit no matter how long they've been doing it without killing anybody.
I'm not advocating their practice...just saying it's not as big a deal as you suggest.
Yeah it is. Just not for the reasons he thinks.

If there actually WERE a weak link on the front end of the towline - as you and the USHGA regulations state - the potential danger would drop astronomically. But there's still no way in hell I'd go up with the possibility of winding up with 250 feet of spectra draped over my basetube with no weak link protection for any of my releases. I don't care how remote the possibility of having a problem in that scenario is - it's a risk which can be totally eliminated with a few pennies worth of string with no downsides whatsoever and it's totally moronic for anyone to take it - even once.

And what they're doing - in addition to being astronomically stupid - is BLATANTLY illegal.
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Re: Weak links

Post by Steve Davy »

But you could say "I have a 1.5 G weak link for my Sport 2 155." That wouldn't be accurate either unless the glider were maxed out but would be consistent with sailplaning in real aviation in which neither the manufacturer or FAA cares about who's strapping himself into the cockpit or how much water he's using for ballast on any particular day. And "the maximum certificated operating weight" would be assumed by any listener with half a clue or better.
Got it. Thanks.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Cool.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=24305
Reflex bridles at work
Andrew Stakhov - 2011/12/30 21:00:18 UTC
Toronto

I know this pilot personally...
Yeah? So how come his name seems to be such a big secret?
...and fly with the same release system. The release is attached to both shoulder strap and loops just below the parachute bag on the front (I guess that's waist). This keeps the release close to the basebar for a quick release in case of emergency instead of somewhere down below where you have to find it. Two point attachment on each side keeps the release in a more predictable location.

The bridle is a two piece, one over the bar one under. Transition is when you switch from upper bridle to lower, which you should be doing as soon as the line starts putting downward pressure on the basebar. I think because of the rocket launch he received he went to transition late, and at that point the rope was already pulling heavily down on basebar storing huge amount of energy in the glider. As soon as the rope snapped during transition, that stored energy released and the bar went way out.
- There was no energy being stored - everything was kinetic.
- The glider was trying to pitch up to trim to the airflow.
- The upper towline leg was torqueing the bar back and holding the nose down - but not that much and not for very long.
- When the towline was taken out of the equation entirely the glider pitched up and started losing momentum.
- The pilot sure didn't seem to be doing much to try to mitigate either of those issues.
Carole Sherrington - 2011/12/31 02:01:37 UTC
Chelmsford, Essex
Mike Bomstad - 2011/12/26 20:31:18 UTC

Surface tows require you to be attached at the waist area. NEVER @ the shoulder.
That's news to the all the towing groups in the UK that use the 2-lever chest release system.
Which is, like, all of them.
It's pretty clear that the bottom strop was too short and was fouling the base bar.
Yeah! That WOULD help explain a few things. He couldn't have pulled in much if he had tried.
This would give you an unwelcome pitch-up at takeoff, but at the height the incident occured, he was probably at the point where the top line should have gone anyway.
Yeah.
I can only surmise that he was trying to fly "at trim"...
I can only surmise he was along for the ride.
...but at that stage of the tow he'd need to be pulling in as though he were on a hillside takeoff.
At that stage of the tow he needed to be pulling in as though he were trying to dive into the trees below launch.
Mike Bomstad - 2011/12/31 04:47:01 UTC

By shoulder I meant aero tow points. Sure looked like thats where is was in the vid.
So what? How would that be relevant to the issues of the pitch up, towline failure, and whipstall?
You guys use this type correct?
Correct.

Now you wanna address any of the points Rodent, Zack, and Mike made about your idiot weak link comments and how the pilot getting pulled down/aft would've contributed to the pitch-up?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Zack C - 2011/01/22 19:12:22 UTC

...everyone seems to think tuck towing is much easier than aerotowing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMsIkAOeJ0I


Yeah, right.
Zack C
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Re: Weak links

Post by Zack C »

Tad Eareckson wrote:Lockout, tug (only) weak link blows, bridle wraps on the tow ring. Now NONE of the releases in the system are protected from overload.
Good point, I hadn't considered that, and I should have given how much we've discussed this stuff.
Tad Eareckson wrote:What's it take in the way of brains, training, and/or experience to detect dented, cracked, bent, frayed, or torn tubing, bolts, wires, or sails?

The goddam student is supposed to be able to do all this before he's signed off on his Hang One.
A preflight is a lot different from a sail-off inspection, which I don't think you could expect a student to do. Not that I think Lookout's policy is reasonable...this is actually the first I've ever heard of it...and I'd be pretty naive to think it's all about the students' safety.
Tad Eareckson wrote:
Zack C wrote:If I ever start towing two stage (from the shoulders) and find problems with it...
It's been universal in Europe for over a quarter century and it's not exactly unheard of on this side of the Atlantic. And it's astonishingly simple. For all intents and purposes there are no problems with it - certainly nothing you're gonna discover and have named in your memory.
Which is why I don't expect to get in trouble deferring to Mike's expertise on the subject...
Tad Eareckson wrote:
Zack C wrote:Who's Mike Bomstad?
Got it now?
Ha...yep...I had remembered asking that at the beginning of this discussion when you noted his real name.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/16.003
Forbes Flatlands - practice day not so great
Davis Straub - 2012/01/04 05:55:02 UTC

Overcast and a bit of changing wind (Forbes airfield, Australia)

Well, it was a practice day. The GFS forecast was way off, but the local Australian Bureau of Meteorology had it pretty much right with a north wind changing to south, while GFS (both XCSkies and RASP) said west. The day started off overcast and stayed that way most of the day getting thicker and windier around 3 PM.

The tugs weren't up to the job of getting everyone off in time and given the poor conditions, it was a poor showing all around. Lots of weak link breaks in some turbulent air. No safety issues due to good organization on the lines.
Yeah, Davis, lots of weak link breaks - but no safety issues due to good organization on the lines. And no stress because they were high.

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.
And we really applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..
Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.
And we also really applaud Bobby's efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by designing a better release.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit...
Bobby's a fucking shit when it comes to this genius. Or something like that - I always get so confused.

P.S. Big thanks to Gregg Ludwig for the heads up.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Gregg Ludwig - 2012/01/04 15:01:44 UTC

Weak weaklinks? Or simply unsafe turbulence?
Yes and no.
- While it's safest to tow in smooth air there's not much point in going up.
- Towing in turbulent air is always a little dangerous.
- Towing in turbulence with a weak link that can fail in turbulence is ALWAYS *EXTREMELY* dangerous.
- A weak link is supposed to HOLD in turbulence and ONLY fail when the tow has gotten so far out of control that the glider's in danger of failing.

Thanks zillion for the heads up on that. I so do enjoy anything I get on Davis which contributes to the mountains of evidence revealing what a stupid despicable scumbag he is.

We've got a very small group of people interested in getting and making things right.

http://kitestrings.prophpbb.com/

Would be happy to have you participate.

P.S. Sorry I took a bit to get back to you - somehow missed seeing your note for a while.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Weak links

Post by Tad Eareckson »

A preflight is a lot different from a sail-off inspection, which I don't think you could expect a student to do.
I've given up on expecting ANYBODY at ANY LEVEL of hang gliding to be able to walk and chew gum. But...

- A reasonably good bicycle is at least about twenty times more complex than a hang glider.

- A halfway intelligent twelve year old kid with a little training and/or the ability to follow directions from a book, manual, and/or video can strip a bike down to the last bearing, make whatever repairs or replacements are necessary for the overhaul, and put it back together. A glider would be a lot simpler, quicker, easier, cleaner to deal with.

- I'd sure like to see a lot more emphasis put on classroom training and a lot less on flare timing.

- I have two U2 160s and a gun to my head. Glider A is brand new from the factory and has just been test flown by the dealer. All I know about Glider B is that it's three years old, has been flown a hundred hours a year, and has never been inspected.

I'm allowed to fully preflight both gliders minus the sidewire load test on Glider A.

I'm flying Glider B.

There's just hardly anything critical that goes wrong with use or assembly of our gliders that isn't blindingly obvious, save for sidewire capacity and, on the ramp, connection status - which are the two issues that your average glider jerk off the street is least likely to check.
Not that I think Lookout's policy is reasonable...this is actually the first I've ever heard of it...and I'd be pretty naive to think it's all about the students' safety.
As far as I'm concerned there's virtually NOTHING in that shit heap that's about students' safety. If I were to get run over by a truck tomorrow I'd prefer that my nephew buy an old Falcon with some good wheels off of eBay and teach himself in isolation using nothing but the FAA Glider Flying Handbook - if those were the only two choices.
Which is why I don't expect to get in trouble deferring to Mike's expertise on the subject...
Yeah, but nevertheless... We've just gotta hold onto the concept that there's nothing important in this sport that someone with ten thousand hours worth of dune, XC, and aerobatics can get any better than someone who's never been near a glider but can do the basic math, science, and logic.

I've only used a two stage setup several times the better part of eighteen years ago and wasn't familiar enough with the connection to notice that there was a pretty serious issue with what was going on with the Mexican tuck tow incident in addition to the lead footed driver and the fairly non responsive glider diver. I ASSUMED that they knew what they were doing with the hookup and didn't think about what I was REALLY seeing upon freezing things the instant the glider came off the cart. ("OK, I've just verified that he's using a chest mounted two stage release. Next.")

If psuguru (Carole Sherrington) hadn't pointed out the hookup problem I'd have died confident that I understood everything important wrong with that flight. But when he DID point it out I didn't defer to his expertise. I went back and checked it for myself. And the error was/is GLARING. There's no detectable sag/slack in that under-line whatsoever. That basetube isn't going back without a lot of effort and even then it's not going back much. And you don't hafta know ANYTHING about hang gliders to see that.

And I'd go so far as to say that a total wuffo would be a lot MORE likely to question what he's seeing than I or any one of us yanks with a lot of aero and platform experience but little in two stage.
Who's Mike Bomstad?
Got it now?
Ha...yep...I had remembered asking that at the beginning of this discussion when you noted his real name.
I just went back and reviewed that discussion. I had remembered you asking but had forgotten my response. Oh wow.

From my e-mail note to Zack...
Tad Eareckson 2011/01/05 21:38:15 UTC

So to keep Mike Bomstad from spreading and protect against the possibility of one grenade resulting in a permanent loss of control of this forum it would be good if I could get my name to light up in red too.
Zack C - 2011/01/10 14:43:39 UTC

Who's Mike Bomstad?
Tad Eareckson - 2011/01/14 20:59:02 UTC

AKA "Wonder Boy". Generic bozo who's not happy with just one way to get blown off tow while he's standing on his tail. You can check out the kind of contributions he makes at:

http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28697
Weak links why do we use them. in paragliding.

commencing 2009/12/12.
Did I NAIL that one or WHAT!!! I feel like I should have prize money beyond my wildest dreams showing up at the front door any day now.
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