Acknowledgement that there's any more expense involved in an increase in the safety of the towing operation than the price of three inches worth of 130 pound test precision fishing line would be grounds for banning on Davis Straub's cock sucker forum.
Note that Luke has edited his post.
Weak links
-
Tad Eareckson
- Posts: 9161
- Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC
Re: Weak links
And any other mainstream cocksucker forum. And if you post something about an incident in which the increase in the safety of the towing operation results in just a broken arm you'll be banned for showing disrespect for the feelings of the family of the beneficiary.
At 2018/10/26 02:02:37 UTC Luke chopped off everything following his first six sentences and changed the end of the last from:
I'd recognized that post as the gold mine it was, was horrified in the seconds between clicking to see Swift's subsequent post and being able to confirm that I sill had the page's previous window open, and immediately started working on the dissection in order to put what he belatedly decided he didn't want anybody to see back up for everybody to see.
Tim Herr controls the sport in the US and the US sets the pace for just about all the rest of the sport on the planet. The power center has figured out what information is useful to us as weaponry for attacking them and has locked most everything possible down accordingly.
The GOOD news is that this system inevitably fosters, nurtures, advances stupid fuck-ups and they will ALWAYS occasionally fuck up and hand us more ammunition. See Bart Weghorst's most recent and undoubtedly final comment on AT weak links as a prime example. And we'll also derive lotsa entertainment value watching them bend over backwards to avoid stating the fuckin' obvious - as in:
http://www.ushpa.org/page/hg-tandem-aerotow-operations
HG Tandem Aerotow Operations
P.S. I see that Bart's resurfaced on The Jack Show - 2018/10/23 13:59:15 UTC - with a nice safe post on a nice safe topic on racing harness options. Probably couldn't get him to post anything else on any flavor of weak link with a gun to his head.
At 2018/10/26 02:02:37 UTC Luke chopped off everything following his first six sentences and changed the end of the last from:
to:...on every solo tow.
And he should've left in the "every" to have the sentence still make sense. Probably did that deliberately to compensate a bit for making way too much sense in the unabridged Version 1.0.on $25 solo tow.
I'd recognized that post as the gold mine it was, was horrified in the seconds between clicking to see Swift's subsequent post and being able to confirm that I sill had the page's previous window open, and immediately started working on the dissection in order to put what he belatedly decided he didn't want anybody to see back up for everybody to see.
Tim Herr controls the sport in the US and the US sets the pace for just about all the rest of the sport on the planet. The power center has figured out what information is useful to us as weaponry for attacking them and has locked most everything possible down accordingly.
The GOOD news is that this system inevitably fosters, nurtures, advances stupid fuck-ups and they will ALWAYS occasionally fuck up and hand us more ammunition. See Bart Weghorst's most recent and undoubtedly final comment on AT weak links as a prime example. And we'll also derive lotsa entertainment value watching them bend over backwards to avoid stating the fuckin' obvious - as in:
http://www.ushpa.org/page/hg-tandem-aerotow-operations
HG Tandem Aerotow Operations
I notice that bullshit's still up and publicly accessible. It was concocted as an ass-covering move in response to the lawsuit filed by the family of the victim of the 2004/06/26 Hang Glide Chicago Gary Solomon / Arlan Birkett / Jeremiah Thompson murder suicide. Must've figured out how it would look if they'd buried it prior to the next tow mast breakaway protector precipitated inconvenience stall fatality - and that we'd make sure that victim's family's attorneys got properly tuned in.USHGA - 2006/03/15
Safety Notice
HG Tandem Aerotow Operations
Should the tandem glider become unattached from the tug during this maneuver...
P.S. I see that Bart's resurfaced on The Jack Show - 2018/10/23 13:59:15 UTC - with a nice safe post on a nice safe topic on racing harness options. Probably couldn't get him to post anything else on any flavor of weak link with a gun to his head.
-
Steve Davy
- Posts: 1338
- Joined: 2011/07/18 10:37:38 UTC
Re: Weak links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_MS-10
Soyuz MS-10
Soyuz MS-10
Inconvenience due to a success of the Soyuz-FG launch vehicle boosters.Soyuz MS-10 was a manned Soyuz MS spaceflight which aborted shortly after launch on 11 October 2018 due to a failure of the Soyuz-FG launch vehicle boosters.
Probably only has two or three moving parts. Simple is best.MS-10 was the 139th flight of a Soyuz spacecraft.
Safety first. Just go to the front of the line for a free relight.It was intended to transport two members of the Expedition 57 crew to the International Space Station.
Booster SUCCESS!A few minutes after liftoff, the craft went into contingency abort due to a booster failure and had to return to Earth.
Ok, maybe four moving parts. Starting to get a bit Rube Goldberg with all this complexity.By the time the contingency abort was declared, the launch escape system (LES) had been ejected and the capsule was pulled away from the rocket using the back-up motors on the capsule fairing.
Why wouldn't they be alive in good health after an increase in the safety of the launching operation?Both crew members, Roscosmos cosmonaut Aleksey Ovchinin and NASA astronaut Nick Hague, were recovered alive in good health.
Now that is terrifying! You idiots need to get that abort number up to six in a row, or you're going to end up getting some folks killed.The MS-10 flight abort was the first instance of a Russian manned booster accident at high altitude in 43 years, since Soyuz 18a failed to make orbit in April 1975.
-
Tad Eareckson
- Posts: 9161
- Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC
Re: Weak links
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
http://ozreport.com/13.238
Adam Parer on his tuck and tumble
And now that the accepted standards and practices have changed we no longer hear much about Murphy's Law.
Is this a joke ?
And of course it was always just OUR safety device that would go "bam" outta nowhere and send our trip to happy XC land up in a flash - weekend after weekend after weekend. There were never a couple dozen...Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC
Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.
The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".
The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favourite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.
I get it.
It can be a pisser.
But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.
http://ozreport.com/13.238
Adam Parer on his tuck and tumble
...OTHER safety devices popping off ahead of us and getting shuffled back to the head of the line for free relights. Nah, soaring windows and our flying opportunities and careers are all limitless and a spool of 130 pound Cortland Greenspot holds three hundred yards, sells for under fifty bucks, and is provided free by the assholes who force you to use it.Adam Parer - 2009/11/25
Due to the rough conditions weak links were breaking just about every other tow and the two tugs worked hard to eventually get everyone off the ground successfully.
And when it - astoundingly - DOESN'T avoid frequent weak link breaks from turbulence... Murphy's Law.Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06
Actually, that is our expectation of performance for weak links on hang gliders here at Cloud 9, too. Primarily, we want the weak link to fail as needed to protect the equipment, and not fail inadvertently or inconsistently. We want our weak links to break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent weak link breaks from turbulence. It is the same expectation of performance that we have for the weak links we use for towing sailplanes.
Murphy's Law again. Absolutely nothing to do with tension increases during launch accelerations, in thermal turbulence, when climbing harder.Donnell Hewett - 1980/12
Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation"...
And now that the accepted standards and practices have changed we no longer hear much about Murphy's Law.
-
Tad Eareckson
- Posts: 9161
- Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC
Re: Weak links
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57418
Florida Ridge raising aerotow rate
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=6911
Sunday flying at Florida ridge. -
http://ozreport.com/9.033
Why weaklinks?
- will have them being visited in the hospital by Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney
- severely endanger the tug pilot when used on solo gliders
- reduce the overall safety of the system if some pilots use them while others don't
http://www.thefloridaridge.com/pilot-services/
Florida Ridge Hang Gliding :: Pilot Services
12-1704
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/823/41280649535_3cfbc7a32d_o.png
The tug doesn't even need to have gotten off the ground.
17-1821
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/962/40373978690_9aef9ff7ca_o.png
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
- getting all the fucking Dragonflies from Florida to Zapata
- the time everybody's stuck on the ground with their thumbs up their asses with the comp stalled
- a penny of the costs for the folk for whom the douchebag comp exists
And...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
I wonder what the dollar cost to Quest was for this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
thirty dollar safety enhancing inconvenience was. And can anybody find any evidence of continued existence of either of the Tjaden Twins subsequent to Paul's bullshit report? They know goddam well what they did and have to live with the blood of that stupid Kool Kid on their hands. That isn't any fun and if you're not having any fun in this game you don't stay in it. I remember how I felt after Chad Elchin went up at Quest for his last flight on anything with the inboard end of his Dragonfly's port wing strut just stuck in place between the plates. I had to MAKE myself go out and fly for a long time afterwards - and that was with zero responsibility for what happened.
Florida Ridge raising aerotow rate
But we still get a free relight if our Standard Aerotow Weak Link increases the safety of the towing operation under a thousand feet...Angelo Mantas - 2018/11/09 23:32:42 UTC
I understand the need to raise fees, but all the way to $50? That's a pretty big jump.
EDIT - Just looked at their site. $20 daily park pass, $5 parking. So it's really $75/day for one tow. They even want another $5 if I bring my girlfriend!
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=6911
Sunday flying at Florida ridge. -
...right? And we can't...Axel Banchero - 2008/05/22 04:19:39 UTC
Doc's body wasn't moving and we were shitting our pants until he started talking confused. The first thing I saw was his eye bleeding and swollen the size of an 8 ball. There was sand and dirt inside. Looked like he lost it at first until he could open it a little bit.
http://ozreport.com/9.033
Why weaklinks?
...penalize pilots for using true weak links 'cause that'll drive them to using extremely dangerous Tad-O-Links which:Davis Straub - 2005/02/08
Competition pilots are driven to use strong links because breaking a weaklink causes them to go to the back of the line as well as the problems that come with broken weaklinks low. If we want to use weaklinks, we need to be sure that we are not penalized if our weaklink breaks.
- will have them being visited in the hospital by Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney
- severely endanger the tug pilot when used on solo gliders
- reduce the overall safety of the system if some pilots use them while others don't
http://www.thefloridaridge.com/pilot-services/
Florida Ridge Hang Gliding :: Pilot Services
This is fuckin' GOLDEN. We FINALLY have these Industry motherfuckers telling us what the REAL cost - 2018 dollars - of a safety enhancing kill zone inconvenience. Thirty bucks just to get the glider airborne.Flight Services
Solo Pilot Aero-Towing
Member/Non-Member
- $30/$50 - over 2000
- $20/$30 - 200 or less
12-1704
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/823/41280649535_3cfbc7a32d_o.png
The tug doesn't even need to have gotten off the ground.
17-1821
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/962/40373978690_9aef9ff7ca_o.png
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
$180 - and that doesn't factor in:Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC
We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).
- getting all the fucking Dragonflies from Florida to Zapata
- the time everybody's stuck on the ground with their thumbs up their asses with the comp stalled
- a penny of the costs for the folk for whom the douchebag comp exists
And...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
What's the cost of one of those for the guy who's paying these dickheads to get him up to workable altitude? I've personally been there several times - not to mention baking in line with my Tad-O-Link while all the fuckin' Rooney Linkers keep getting shuffled back into line ahead of me for their free thirty dollar relights.Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC
Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.
The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".
The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favourite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.
I get it.
It can be a pisser.
But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.
I wonder what the dollar cost to Quest was for this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
thirty dollar safety enhancing inconvenience was. And can anybody find any evidence of continued existence of either of the Tjaden Twins subsequent to Paul's bullshit report? They know goddam well what they did and have to live with the blood of that stupid Kool Kid on their hands. That isn't any fun and if you're not having any fun in this game you don't stay in it. I remember how I felt after Chad Elchin went up at Quest for his last flight on anything with the inboard end of his Dragonfly's port wing strut just stuck in place between the plates. I had to MAKE myself go out and fly for a long time afterwards - and that was with zero responsibility for what happened.
-
Steve Davy
- Posts: 1338
- Joined: 2011/07/18 10:37:38 UTC
Re: Weak links
Fitting. And they get zero sympathy from me.They know goddam well what they did and have to live with the blood of that stupid Kool Kid on their hands.
-
Tad Eareckson
- Posts: 9161
- Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC
Re: Weak links
Jump to next post:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post11193.html#p11193
Couldn't resist giving this asshole a little more visibility.
- 01 - chronological order
- 02 - seconds
- 24 - frame (30 fps)
01-0224
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4851/30987380697_f09b746de6_o.png
Not sure your spreader is doing enough to prevent the crushing of the top of your carabiner. Might wanna move it down a little more. (Yeah, it's probably set like that at the factory. I don't give a rat's ass. A REAL pilot would've done something about it. (Is refreshing, however, to note the absence of a backup loop.))
02-0825
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4810/30987380097_fa8f40d265_o.png
Pop. (Angle of attack was getting dangerouly high and he wasn't pulling in to do anything about it.)
03-0826
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4911/30987379417_086bc856ff_o.png
Safety of the towing operation is being increased.
04-0907
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4858/30987379227_047728610a_o.png
You know the safety of the towing operation is being increased when it suddenly gets real quiet and you're having to fully stuff the bar..
05-0917
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4872/45013896335_94b3e55363_o.png
You could maybe think about using a slightly stronger focal point of your safe towing system but that would also reduce the safety margins for the guy who's driving the car.
06-1009
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4848/30987378967_9153cff156_o.png
If you'd just kept the bar at that position for the tow you'd still be getting pulled. (At steady twenty feet over the runway. (With the car going a steady fifty miles per hour.))
07-1027
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4844/32055052568_1dd16f2c67_o.png
08-1110
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4908/45013895425_c40dba7cde_o.png
09-1120
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4804/32055052308_b70fe84b90_o.png
Oh look. The sky's completely gone now. (Anyone care to make anything more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow?)
10-1127
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4804/45013894995_05d06f7863_o.png
11-1210
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4839/32055052058_26694573a8_o.png
12-1225
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4894/30987381187_2233af6c09_o.png
13-1309
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4899/32055051988_1fce935d69_o.png
14-1319
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4906/45926039821_e82dc3dd37_o.png
15-1418
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4811/30987376917_7c5a63cdb0_o.png
Oh look. We're starting to see the sky again.
16-1508
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4808/45926037801_da4cccc603_o.png
The rest of these are just to get a look at the tow site and surrounding countryside.
17-1603
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4849/45926036401_af878066cc_o.png
This would've been on a Koch release.
18-1626
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4808/30987374017_3915c0ff33_o.png
19-1706
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4860/45926033991_7a614631e2_o.png
20-1723
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4804/30987372107_faa9a9a788_o.png
21-1807
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4815/45926032511_01a55a8893_o.png
22-1816
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4820/30987370647_c15a632860_o.png
23-1928
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4836/45926029961_86758c6b5a_o.png
24-2216
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4873/30987367137_d92ba12fca_o.png
25-2716
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4855/45876751022_a4116811ab_o.png
26-3021
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4876/30987362747_5c78147cd1_o.png
27-3309
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4826/45876749102_bf284b9da0_o.png
28-3524
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4813/30987358357_50bec706f5_o.png
29-3703
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4862/45876747362_e57d9a5c65_o.png
Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post11188.html#p11188
http://www.kitestrings.org/post11193.html#p11193
Couldn't resist giving this asshole a little more visibility.
01-0224Mikkel Krogh74 - 2013/08/17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaffiLv0-Dw
The weak link broke shortly after take off. The tow is done by car
- 01 - chronological order
- 02 - seconds
- 24 - frame (30 fps)
01-0224
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4851/30987380697_f09b746de6_o.png
Not sure your spreader is doing enough to prevent the crushing of the top of your carabiner. Might wanna move it down a little more. (Yeah, it's probably set like that at the factory. I don't give a rat's ass. A REAL pilot would've done something about it. (Is refreshing, however, to note the absence of a backup loop.))
02-0825
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4810/30987380097_fa8f40d265_o.png
Pop. (Angle of attack was getting dangerouly high and he wasn't pulling in to do anything about it.)
03-0826
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4911/30987379417_086bc856ff_o.png
Safety of the towing operation is being increased.
04-0907
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4858/30987379227_047728610a_o.png
You know the safety of the towing operation is being increased when it suddenly gets real quiet and you're having to fully stuff the bar..
05-0917
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4872/45013896335_94b3e55363_o.png
You could maybe think about using a slightly stronger focal point of your safe towing system but that would also reduce the safety margins for the guy who's driving the car.
06-1009
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4848/30987378967_9153cff156_o.png
If you'd just kept the bar at that position for the tow you'd still be getting pulled. (At steady twenty feet over the runway. (With the car going a steady fifty miles per hour.))
07-1027
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4844/32055052568_1dd16f2c67_o.png
08-1110
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4908/45013895425_c40dba7cde_o.png
09-1120
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4804/32055052308_b70fe84b90_o.png
Oh look. The sky's completely gone now. (Anyone care to make anything more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow?)
10-1127
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4804/45013894995_05d06f7863_o.png
11-1210
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4839/32055052058_26694573a8_o.png
12-1225
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4894/30987381187_2233af6c09_o.png
13-1309
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4899/32055051988_1fce935d69_o.png
14-1319
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4906/45926039821_e82dc3dd37_o.png
15-1418
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4811/30987376917_7c5a63cdb0_o.png
Oh look. We're starting to see the sky again.
16-1508
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4808/45926037801_da4cccc603_o.png
The rest of these are just to get a look at the tow site and surrounding countryside.
17-1603
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4849/45926036401_af878066cc_o.png
This would've been on a Koch release.
18-1626
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4808/30987374017_3915c0ff33_o.png
19-1706
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4860/45926033991_7a614631e2_o.png
20-1723
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4804/30987372107_faa9a9a788_o.png
21-1807
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4815/45926032511_01a55a8893_o.png
22-1816
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4820/30987370647_c15a632860_o.png
23-1928
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4836/45926029961_86758c6b5a_o.png
24-2216
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4873/30987367137_d92ba12fca_o.png
25-2716
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4855/45876751022_a4116811ab_o.png
26-3021
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4876/30987362747_5c78147cd1_o.png
27-3309
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4826/45876749102_bf284b9da0_o.png
28-3524
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4813/30987358357_50bec706f5_o.png
29-3703
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4862/45876747362_e57d9a5c65_o.png
Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post11188.html#p11188
-
Tad Eareckson
- Posts: 9161
- Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC
Re: Weak links
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flyhg/message/17223
Pilot's Hotline winter flying
It's totally consistent with what u$hPa had to put out in its 2006/03/15 bullshit advisory:
http://www.ushpa.org/page/hg-tandem-aerotow-operations
HG Tandem Aerotow Operations
in response to the 2005/09/03 Arlan Birkett / Jeremy Thompson tandem inconvenience fatalities which describes what happens when nose-high gliders "become unattached" from tugs even in sled conditions air.
But unfortunately the dangerously overstrength weak link which allowed Zack to climb at a dangerously high angle of attack was the same weak link which will also break six times in a row...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
And not one other dickhead tug driver on the planet ever suggested that the tiniest little girl glider on her first AT solo use anything safer than a single loop of 130 pound Greenspot. Nobody suggested doing a less effective job of hiding the knot or not replacing a loop after X number of tows or that showed the slightest degree of fuzzing. And you never purchased a spool of 120 pound Greenspot to give muppets like Zack C the option of doing what you just told him you wanted him to.
And THIS:
02-00820c
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7252/27169646315_9af9a62298_o.png
is the way The Industry responded instead. And EVERYBODY suddenly switched to two hundred pounders 'cause:
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
What HASN'T fared so well...
08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png
Two Northern Hemisphere seasons have passed since that one.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49837
Jim Rooney tandem paraglider incident in New Zealand
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
And funny that they're still working this out - after 130 pound Greenspot has been time tested and proven and works a hell of a lot better than all the other bullshit you've seen out there. So obviously they must be working this out for stronger. Can't be the same 'cause they'd hafta be total morons working out something that's already been time tested and proven. And none of them are chiming in to support having your precious little ideas implemented.
And ALL the other bullshit you've seen out there?
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
So you have ACTUALLY seen ZERO evidence of ANY of ALL that other bullshit out there not working as well as time tested and proven 130 pound Greenspot. And you haven't seen any of that other bullshit out there working well enough to increase the safety of the towing operation six times in a row in light morning conditions, have you? 'Cause we'd have sure heard about SOMEBODY ELSE'S bullshit costing a tow operation thirty bucks a pop six times in a row. (Well, actually we wouldn't have 'cause it would've been grounded after the first one.)
The Industry hates your guts even more than it hates mine. We've done all the shooting but you were the asshole who kept feeding all the ammunition of quantity and quality so far beyond our wildest dreams. And they've also gotta be kicking themselves for not recognizing you as the threat you were and getting your ass properly muzzled the better part of a decade ago when they really needed to.
They also respect me 'cause they know I know where and how to hit them. And I doubt you could scare up a single individual from hang, para, or tugging who'd wanna admit ever having had any degree of a positive relationship with you.
By the way... Did you ever get in touch with Keavy Nenninger's mom to tell her all about the rookie mistake her daughter made at Ridgely on the morning of 2011/07/23?
And ya know the:
And we know there was no update after the 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality. The appropriate weak link just got upped 54 percent - suddenly making everything that had been used by Wills Wing and everybody else and his dog the previous couple decades substantially inappropriate.
And that's a MAX. No minimum specified 'cause the lower you go the safer you get - just like wind speed and/or training hill height. And - on that note - let's use BOWLINES. You want something you can untie quickly, easily reliably. And if they fall apart on tow - regardless of what's going on at any particular moment...
17-1821
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/962/40373978690_9aef9ff7ca_o.png
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22722
VG broke in Flight. Equipment failure
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5380.html#p5380
Great job, Wills Wing.
And when people - including little girl gliders (see above) - are suddenly happy with hooking up at twice that Wills Wing doesn't do shit to address its only published position on AT weak link strength. That's unconscionable negligence.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7230
Towing question
Poll on weaklinks
Yeah, we know what happened then. Quest's relevant idiot tug driver - and only surviving identified and reporting witness to the inconvenience incident - made the mistake of blurting out what happened then less than 24 hours after impact.Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC
My god my head hurts.
Wow...
So you know what happened then?
OMG... thank you for your expert accident analysis. You better fly down to FL and let them know. I'm sure they'll be very thankful to have such a crack expert mind on the case analyzing an accident that you know nothing about. Far better data than the people that were actually there. In short... get fucked.
Again, tell me how all this nonsense is about "safety"?
So, a stronger weaklink allows you to achieve higher AOAs... but you see high AOAs coupled with a loss of power as *the* problem? So you want something that will allow you to achieve even higher AOAs?
Are you NUTS?
I'm tired of arguing with crazy.
As I said many times... there are those that listen with the intent of responding... you unfortunately are one.
You've done a great job of convincing me never to tow you.
Thank you for that.
Mission accomplished.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flyhg/message/17223
Pilot's Hotline winter flying
No mystery, surprise, confusion, ambiguity whatsoever. Zack was using a dangerously overstrength weak link which allowed him to climb at a dangerously high angle of attack - given that he was in pro toad mode / didn't feel the need to split the bridle tension to trim the nose down to a sane pitch attitude - in some of the strongest lift that Mark had ever encountered leaving the field. Nobody ever questioned that account, said that something wasn't adding up, asked for further explanation or clarification.Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/03 13:41
Yesterday was a light and variable day with expected good lift. Zach was the second tow of the afternoon. We launched to the south into a nice straight in wind. A few seconds into the tow I hit strong lift.
Zach hit it and went high and to the right. The weak link broke at around 150 feet or so and Zach stalled and dropped a wing or did a wingover, I couldn't tell. The glider tumbled too low for a deployment.
It's totally consistent with what u$hPa had to put out in its 2006/03/15 bullshit advisory:
http://www.ushpa.org/page/hg-tandem-aerotow-operations
HG Tandem Aerotow Operations
in response to the 2005/09/03 Arlan Birkett / Jeremy Thompson tandem inconvenience fatalities which describes what happens when nose-high gliders "become unattached" from tugs even in sled conditions air.
But unfortunately the dangerously overstrength weak link which allowed Zack to climb at a dangerously high angle of attack was the same weak link which will also break six times in a row...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
...in glassy smooth morning air due only to the effects of coincidence. Go figure.Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC
Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.
And not one other dickhead tug driver on the planet ever suggested that the tiniest little girl glider on her first AT solo use anything safer than a single loop of 130 pound Greenspot. Nobody suggested doing a less effective job of hiding the knot or not replacing a loop after X number of tows or that showed the slightest degree of fuzzing. And you never purchased a spool of 120 pound Greenspot to give muppets like Zack C the option of doing what you just told him you wanted him to.
And THIS:
02-00820c
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7252/27169646315_9af9a62298_o.png
is the way The Industry responded instead. And EVERYBODY suddenly switched to two hundred pounders 'cause:
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
http://ozreport.com/12.081Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC
We all play by the same rules, or we don't play.
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
And we've now put six entire Northern Hemisphere seasons behind us subsequent to the Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality in which everyone and his dog have been flying...Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
One pilot may feel that one component is unsafe from his point of view and desire a different approach, but accommodating one pilot can reduce the overall safety of the system.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
...Tad-O-Links and not one single lightly scraped knee has been attributed to one. Not hearing much in the way of reports of...Marc Fink - 2007/05/19 12:58:31 UTC
A 400lb load limit for a solo tow is absurd.
...increases in equipment damage either.Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06
Solo hang glider pilots should not place a 520 lb. double loop weak link on their V-bridle, unless they get specific approval from the tow operator. It could be hard on the equipment and could be illegal if the tug is using a weaker weak link. It is also far beyond USHPA's nominal 1g recommendation.
What HASN'T fared so well...
08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png
Two Northern Hemisphere seasons have passed since that one.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49837
Jim Rooney tandem paraglider incident in New Zealand
World's greatest expert on everything. Pilot In Command. Front row seat. No claim of concussion-based amnesia for that one either. And zero interest in casting the dimmest ray of sunshine on it for the benefit of any of us muppets.Jim Rooney - 2016/10/01 05:55:48 UTC
Up from surgery... Plates on L2 while it heals, will come out after. Feeling good.
I won't comment on my crash just yet. Maybe after the CAA investigation.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Yeah?Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC
You want MORE.
I want you to have less.
This is the fundamental disagreement.
You're afraid of breaking off with a high AOA? Good... tow with a WEAKER weaklink... you won't be able to achieve a high AOA. Problem solved.
I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties.
Don't like it?
Don't ask me to tow you.
Go troll somewhere else buddy.
I'm over this.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
So now we know what your precious little ideas is. (There's only ever been one of them.) Your precious little ideas is to have people flying on even safer weak links. And you ARE so arrogant as to think that they're gonna magically revolutionise The Industry. Otherwise you wouldn't be threatening pilots who don't respect your brilliance enough to increase the safety to convenience ratio. Bobby's never once advocated anything four ounces safer so you're saying that you're a super fucking genius what it comes to this shit. And far smarter than the people far smarter than you who you've worked with who are working this out.Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC
Thought I already answered that one... instead of quoting myself (have a look back if you don't believe me), I'll just reiterate it.
I don't advocate anything.
I use what we use at the flight parks. It's time tested and proven... and works a hell of a lot better than all the other bullshit I've seen out there.
130lb greenspot (greenspun?) cortland fishing line.
In stock at Quest, Highland, Eastern Shore, Kitty Hawk Kites, Florida Ridge, and I'm pretty sure Wallaby, Lookout and Morningside.
Not sure what Tracy up at Cloud Nine uses, but I'll put bets on the same.
Did I miss any?
Is it clear what I mean by "We"?
I didn't make the system up.
And I'm not so arrogant to think that my precious little ideas are going to magically revolutionise the industry.
There are far smarter people than me working this out.
I know, I've worked with them.
(Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit... for example.)
And funny that they're still working this out - after 130 pound Greenspot has been time tested and proven and works a hell of a lot better than all the other bullshit you've seen out there. So obviously they must be working this out for stronger. Can't be the same 'cause they'd hafta be total morons working out something that's already been time tested and proven. And none of them are chiming in to support having your precious little ideas implemented.
And ALL the other bullshit you've seen out there?
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
How can that possibly be?Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC
You've not heard about strong-link incidents.
Uh, yeah... cuz we don't let you use them.
So you have ACTUALLY seen ZERO evidence of ANY of ALL that other bullshit out there not working as well as time tested and proven 130 pound Greenspot. And you haven't seen any of that other bullshit out there working well enough to increase the safety of the towing operation six times in a row in light morning conditions, have you? 'Cause we'd have sure heard about SOMEBODY ELSE'S bullshit costing a tow operation thirty bucks a pop six times in a row. (Well, actually we wouldn't have 'cause it would've been grounded after the first one.)
The Industry hates your guts even more than it hates mine. We've done all the shooting but you were the asshole who kept feeding all the ammunition of quantity and quality so far beyond our wildest dreams. And they've also gotta be kicking themselves for not recognizing you as the threat you were and getting your ass properly muzzled the better part of a decade ago when they really needed to.
They also respect me 'cause they know I know where and how to hit them. And I doubt you could scare up a single individual from hang, para, or tugging who'd wanna admit ever having had any degree of a positive relationship with you.
By the way... Did you ever get in touch with Keavy Nenninger's mom to tell her all about the rookie mistake her daughter made at Ridgely on the morning of 2011/07/23?
And ya know the:
crap from Wills Wing in which we're never given the definition of an appropriate weak link in terms of either strength or purpose(s). The one that never changes - or needs to - when the magic fishing line is abruptly adjusted for no apparent reason from 130 to 200. Wills Wing scrubbed the publication dates from the articles but I can probably find the one for it in a magazine archive. But for the time being they make no mention of the Falcon Twos which came out in 2002 so we know we know a latest possible date. And we all know what an appropriate weak link was in that era.Always use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less.
And we know there was no update after the 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality. The appropriate weak link just got upped 54 percent - suddenly making everything that had been used by Wills Wing and everybody else and his dog the previous couple decades substantially inappropriate.
Got 'em. Regardless of solo glider model, flying weight, towing "skills" - 200 pounds direct loading. (And everything was pro toad in that era of AT.) Find me a subsequent statement from those motherfuckers in which they utter a single syllable about pounds, material, knots, configuration.Rob Kells - 1985/09
Accident Report - Chris Bulger
It is recommended that you never use a weak link good for more than 150 to 200 lbs. I have been using for years a single loop of 205 with three overhand knots and two bowlines to tie the ends together. Its breaking strength is between 210 and 215 lbs. It has always broken when necessary, but sometimes a little more time was required than I was comfortable with.
If you're towing, USE A WEAK LINK and test its breaking strength on numerous samples. Be sure it is breaking consistently at UNDER 200 lbs.
And that's a MAX. No minimum specified 'cause the lower you go the safer you get - just like wind speed and/or training hill height. And - on that note - let's use BOWLINES. You want something you can untie quickly, easily reliably. And if they fall apart on tow - regardless of what's going on at any particular moment...
17-1821
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/962/40373978690_9aef9ff7ca_o.png
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
...you suddenly have the widest conceivable safety margins. And you've been trained by a certified tandem instructor on how to best deal with them.Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC
It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22722
VG broke in Flight. Equipment failure
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5380.html#p5380
Great job, Wills Wing.
And when people - including little girl gliders (see above) - are suddenly happy with hooking up at twice that Wills Wing doesn't do shit to address its only published position on AT weak link strength. That's unconscionable negligence.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7230
Towing question
Fuck anyone who wasn't in that war and on the right side of it.Martin Henry - 2009/06/26 06:06:59 UTC
PS... you got to be careful mentioning weak link strengths around the forum, it can spark a civil war
-
Tad Eareckson
- Posts: 9161
- Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC
Re: Weak links
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks
Is this a joke ?
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
Poll on weaklinks
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png
weaklinks
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC
In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.
Is this a joke ?
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC
First, I sent Steve a bunch of info offline. Hopefully it clears things up a bit for him.
Unfortunately, he's stumbled onto some of Tad's old rantings and got suckered in. So most of this was just the same old story of debunking Tad's lunacy... again .
See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
We know what we're doing.
Sure "there's always room for improvement", but you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.
There isn't going to be some "oh gee, why didn't I think of that?" moment. The obvious answers have already been explored... at length.
Anyway...
Weaklink material... exactly what Davis said.
It's no mystery.
It's only a mystery why people choose to reinvent the wheel when we've got a proven system that works.
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052Christopher LeFay - 2012/03/15 05:57:43 UTC
<rant>January's canonization of Rooney as the Patron Saint of Landing was maddening. He offered just what people wanted to hear: there is an ultimate, definitive answer to your landing problems, presented with absolute authority. Judgment problems? His answer is to remove judgment from the process- doggedly stripping out critical differences in gliders, loading, pilot, and conditions. This was just what people wanted- to be told a simple answer. In thanks, they deified him, carving his every utterance in Wiki-stone.</rant>
Poll on weaklinks
08-19Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC
The accepted standards and practices changed.
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png
-
Tad Eareckson
- Posts: 9161
- Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC
Re: Weak links
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4174/34261733815_bfb41c49d8_o.jpg
Beyond it in fact. Not locked out, banked away from the tug, holding any more than normal pressure.
06-03114
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/9655895292_f4f808fb0e_o.png
If he's banked away from the tug how much farther back do you think he'll be able to move the bar and what kind of shape do you think he'll be in...
http://ozreport.com/13.003
Forbes, day one, task one
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7447/26578855104_69f4705474_o.jpg
...letting go to release? A memorial fly-in named after you?
- Have you never pondered going up on a release that doesn't REQUIRE you to LET GO...
25-32016
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5548/14306846174_185f09082e_o.png
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/14120804830_2aabd74d25_o.png
09-10817
...to release?
This:
12-A170004
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47600603972_13b6665c98_o.png
for all intents and purposes, is a low level lockout. The towline tension is zero, Jonathan's control authority is overwhelmed to the point at which he wouldn't be able to recover if there were a small tree to his right blocking his escape route, he's upright as a consequence of foot launching so he can't do much in the way of pulling in, he's got both hands on the control tubes, and he's over to the left as far as possible. What happens if he lets the bar out?
Why is that we've NEVER seen a video or heard a report of anyone using this Ryan u$hPa-2014-Hang-Glider-Instructor-of-the-Year Voight technique in an emergency situation? How come:
- demonstration of the technique at under fifty feet - or over two thousand in smooth air - has never been a requirement for an AT rating?
- you've never campaigned for its inclusion?
- there's no record of any flight park or AT operation anywhere on the planet suggesting its practice to a student or advanced AT pilot?
pro tow set-up
Hey Ryan...Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC
It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.
During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?
Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release
This guy has the bar back by his belly button.It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out.
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4174/34261733815_bfb41c49d8_o.jpg
Beyond it in fact. Not locked out, banked away from the tug, holding any more than normal pressure.
06-03114
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/9655895292_f4f808fb0e_o.png
If he's banked away from the tug how much farther back do you think he'll be able to move the bar and what kind of shape do you think he'll be in...
http://ozreport.com/13.003
Forbes, day one, task one
...safety-wise?Davis Straub - 2009/01/03 20:50:24 UTC
Forbes Airport, New South Wales
Steve Elliot came off the cart crooked and things went from bad to worse as he augured in. He was helicoptered to Orange and eventually to Sydney where the prognosis is not good. I'll update as I find out more.
Of course you will. No possibility whatsoever...Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
...that you'll be stalled. Or even if you are there's no possibility whatsoever that you'll be too low to immediately lower the nose, regain airspeed, and land normally.The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2019/04/11
Weak Link Failures
The pilot is responsible for inspecting the weak link well before the tug arrives. Any fraying indicates that it's time to replace the weak link. The weak link is designed to act as a fuse, breaking the circuit when overloaded. In an excessive out-of position situation, the weak link will snap before the control authority of the glider would be lost. If you should have a weak link failure close to the ground, it will be important to immediately lower the nose of the glider, due to the relatively high angel of attack while under tow and the sudden loss of energy upon release. Regain airspeed and land normally.
I wouldn't. I tow "abnormally" - with a release I can use to terminate a tow in an emergency situation without an extra second's worth delay while maintaining maximum possible control authority at all times.During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?
What kind of a situation? There are lotsa different situations in which one can be on tow. But the only ones I contemplate and gear for are emergency ones. Why don't you tell us about some of the situations you contemplate and gear for?Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation...
- In what kind of situation could you possibly be where you CAN'T LET GO to release? What would be the consequences of......where you CAN'T LET GO to release?
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7447/26578855104_69f4705474_o.jpg
...letting go to release? A memorial fly-in named after you?
- Have you never pondered going up on a release that doesn't REQUIRE you to LET GO...
25-32016
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5548/14306846174_185f09082e_o.png
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/14120804830_2aabd74d25_o.png
09-10817
...to release?
Funny the way nobody - conspicuously including YOU - ever brings up your strategy in the wake of any low level lockout crashes.I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release
This:
12-A170004
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47600603972_13b6665c98_o.png
for all intents and purposes, is a low level lockout. The towline tension is zero, Jonathan's control authority is overwhelmed to the point at which he wouldn't be able to recover if there were a small tree to his right blocking his escape route, he's upright as a consequence of foot launching so he can't do much in the way of pulling in, he's got both hands on the control tubes, and he's over to the left as far as possible. What happens if he lets the bar out?
Why is that we've NEVER seen a video or heard a report of anyone using this Ryan u$hPa-2014-Hang-Glider-Instructor-of-the-Year Voight technique in an emergency situation? How come:
- demonstration of the technique at under fifty feet - or over two thousand in smooth air - has never been a requirement for an AT rating?
- you've never campaigned for its inclusion?
- there's no record of any flight park or AT operation anywhere on the planet suggesting its practice to a student or advanced AT pilot?