http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14875
Towing Point
Patrick O'Donnell - 2009/12/16 23:02:40 UTC
I got this Sport 2 155 and will be areo towing her I had a Sport 167 and she towed great with a fin, anyway the ? is.I see some pilots towing from the hang strap not bothering to tie a length of rope around the king post and along the keel to about a foot infront of the hang strap which is what I did on the 167.Is this the way or were they flying a T2,U2 which towed from the hang strap and chest quite nicely.
Hope you can rig and preflight a glider better than you can compose and proofread a paragraph.
Diev Hart - 2009/12/16 23:21:43 UTC
It should work from the hang stap but to reduce bar pressure you will want a little (or a lot depending on your skill level) VG pulled, or just go back to the way you were doing it on the sport 167. It is sometimes a zipper issue making it harder to tie onto that spot on the keel. You will see some topless gliders still pulling from the hang stap (and shoulders) to reduce pitch pressure (with little or no VG I would think, as there is not much bar pressure on the toplesses with VG pulled)
Have fun and be safe.
It should work from the hang stap but to reduce bar pressure...
And certainly don't worry about bar POSITION. That's only an issue for free flight and dealt with by adjusting your hang point fore/aft an inch or so.
...you will want a little (or a lot depending on your skill level)...
Right. It's all about SKILL LEVEL. Just get in plenty of practice time. You'll be fine.
...VG pulled, or just go back to the way you were doing it on the sport 167. It is sometimes a zipper issue making it harder to tie onto that spot on the keel.
And perish the thought you should do anything like:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305999131/
You will see some topless gliders still pulling from the hang stap (and shoulders) to reduce pitch pressure (with little or no VG I would think, as there is not much bar pressure on the toplesses with VG pulled)
See above.
Have fun and be safe.
- There's no fucking way to have fun and be safe on AT with the bar near fully stuffed just to stay down level with the tug.
- And here I was thinking that you'd get checked off on all these issues before getting signed off on an AT rating.
Kinsley Sykes - 2009/12/16 23:52:33 UTC
if you could areotow a Sport 167 with no problem, even with a fin, you will find the Sport 2 to be a total piece of cake. It's a night and day difference, I have towed both of them
What do you think he should be using in the way of a weak link? We don't want him getting pulled through the bar too far, after all. (I wonder what he's able to bench press.)
Devin Wagner - 2009/12/16 23:52:40 UTC
Yankton
ive areotowed...
Must be something in the water. Three outta the first four assholes in this thread can't spell "aero" and they all can't spell it the same way. And Diev hasn't tried so we don't know if we'd have had four for four.
...a S2 a bunch put the line right at the keel apex junction.
Where do you usually put capital letters and punctuation marks?
Patrick O'Donnell - 2009/12/17 01:53:18 UTC
As you say Diev it is the zipper thing I don't like and to attach to hang strap looks so easy but easy aint always best.
- That's why they invented foot landings.
- Sure it is. Easy is pretty much a synonym for simple and simple is...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25527
Mouth AT Releases
Diev Hart - 2012/03/13 16:52:53 UTC
I want a remote barrel, that looks simple enough...how much?
...ALWAYS best.
I think I will try it hang strap first and if I don't like it I could leave the zipper open abit.
- See above.
- What does your glider manufacturer have to say about these issues? Oh right. Wills Wing doesn't design their gliders to be motorized, tethered, or towed.
Jim Rooney - 2009/12/17 03:14:54 UTC
The keel point on a S2 isn't technically necessary.
You don't need any pitch assistance.
The top point is used as a matter of familiarity.
If people are used to three point towing, then that's how they stick with it on a S2. You don't need to to tow it, it just puts it back in familiar territory.
For example, if all you've done is three point towing with a Lookout Mountain style release, hitting the "oh SH*T" button is instinctive and means pulling your hand along the base tube. Switching to pro-towing involves learning a new release style.
Whether you choose to tow off the apex junction or off the caribiner really doesn't matter. All tow force is put through your hang point (or there about), so it's all kinda the same... toma-y-to-e to-mah-toe
The keel point on a S2 isn't technically necessary.
- Good thing you used "technically" in that sentence. Wouldn't have made any sense otherwise. And you sound much more intelligent as you use more words with lotsa syllables.
- NOTHING's technically necessary until it IS technically necessary - you revolting little pseudo-intellectual dickhead.
You don't need any pitch assistance.
Under ANY POSSIBLE circumstances. Nice thing about hang gliders - 'specially towed hang gliders - is that they can handle anything Mother Nature has to throw at them in any imaginable circumstances. And you won't even need any pitch assistance on that inevitable occasion we all experience when...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:40:24 UTC
Am I "certain" about anything?
Nope.
However, some things get real obvious when you're doing them all the time. One is that weaklinks do in fact save people's asses.
You're 100% onto it... relying on the skill of the pilot is a numbers game that you'll lose at some point.
...our skills suddenly and catastrophically fail us.
The top point is used as a matter of familiarity.
Six syllables. MOST impressive.
If people are used to three point towing, then that's how they stick with it on a S2. You don't need to to tow it, it just puts it back in familiar territory.
Versus that twilight zone stuff...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC
Wow...
So you know what happened then?
OMG... thank you for your expert accident analysis. You better fly down to FL and let them know. I'm sure they'll be very thankful to have such a crack expert mind on the case analyzing an accident that you know nothing about. Far better data than the people that were actually there. In short... get fucked.
...that we get in real world conditions when an inconvenience translates to a kool kid fatality.
For example, if all you've done is three point towing with a Lookout Mountain style release, hitting the "oh SH*T" button is instinctive and means pulling your hand along the base tube. Switching to pro-towing involves learning a new release style.
- Fighting a lockout with one hand while making the easy reach to your very reliable bent pin release with the other. Just study the Jeff Bohl track log to identify the likely problem areas.
- Funny we never heard anything about learning new release styles when:
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link
Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC
I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
Whether you choose to tow off the apex junction or off the caribiner really doesn't matter.
Like spelling, physics, the REAL world.
All tow force is put through your hang point (or there about), so it's all kinda the same... toma-y-to-e to-mah-toe
Yeah. So actually you don't even need to hook anything up to the pilot at all. Just skip the pilot/bridle bullshit and connect the towline directly to the keel at the hang point. ... Toma-y-to-e to-mah-toe. Right...
07-014327
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8635/16577981019_8e647bc6b0_o.png
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7596/16577980269_1a9a0078a8_o.png
12-014409
...Diev?
kamikaze - 2009/12/17 13:31:34 UTC
Ive heard some guys put an extra zipper/puller on the zip so the zip is still zipped
up both ends front/back and the keel tow rope exits where it should an the zips from both ends are pulled to this point sealing the pocket.
Hope that description is enough because ive no photo and all out of zips
No shit. As far as I know I was the first person on the planet to do that job right and got pretty much universally ignored.
http://www.willswing.com/aerotow-release-attachment-points-for-wills-wing-gliders/
Aerotow Release Attachment Points for Wills Wing Gliders - Wills Wing
Aerotow Release Attachment Points for Wills Wing Gliders
MODEL TOP RELEASE LOCATION
Eagle 145, 164, 180 - On keel, 14 inches forward of back of bottom surface zipper (Must leave bottom surface unzipped 14 inches)
Goddam wastes o' space.
Craig Hassan - 2009/12/17 15:44:33 UTC
With the Sport 2 155 there is just enough room between the keel pocket up front, and the zipper to get a tow point.(actually tied off just inside the keel pocket) I found this was an ideal place and resulted in near zero bar pressure on tow. No need to leave the zipper open or modify it in anyway.
I also towed mine from the biner and found no issues.
Normally I towed from the shoulders only and while the bar pressure is not bad, a long slow climb on tow can result in having worn out arms when you pin. Same goes for a fast tow.
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4865/46449521411_a25278e2ec_o.png
Dont laugh at my harness!
With the Sport 2 155 there is just enough room between the keel pocket up front...
What's up front is the DOUBLE SURFACE - not the KEEL POCKET. And nobody says anything.
...and the zipper to get a tow point.(actually tied off just inside the keel pocket) I found this was an ideal place and resulted in near zero bar pressure on tow. No need to leave the zipper open or modify it in anyway.
I also towed mine from the biner and found no issues.
Great. No issues. You can move the trim point a foot aft on the keel to the hang point and then drop it a foot down the suspension to the carabiner. And there's no downside whatsoever. There'll never be any circumstances you might encounter on tow in which the different trim will result in a different outcome. Is this a great sport or what!
Normally I towed from the shoulders only...
Two point, right?
...and while the bar pressure is not bad, a long slow climb on tow can result in having worn out arms when you pin.
Doesn't sound like much of a problem. They're not so worn out that you'll be unable to pin.
Same goes for a fast tow.
Have you tried a medium speed tow? I'm guessing that's the sweet spot in which bar pressure is trimmed out.
Tow Bridles and Releases
We do not recommend releasing from the bottom release point on your shoulders when using a V-bridle. If the bridle or weak link gets caught on the tow rope ring after releasing at the shoulders, and the glider is being pulled only from the top point, it may become unstable in pitch on tow. Use the bottom back up release only if you have a top release failure.
We do not recommend releasing from the bottom release point on your shoulders when using a V-bridle.
I really like releasing from the bottom release point on your shoulders when using a V-bridle. Can you refer me to someone who DOES recommend releasing from the bottom release point on your shoulders when using a V-bridle? One of your dealers...
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7110/14026540481_ce30e036b4_o.jpg
...perhaps.
If the bridle or weak link gets caught on the tow rope ring after releasing at the shoulders...
Any chance we could design any of this shit to minimize the chances of stuff getting caught on the tow rope ring? Nah, Wills Wing doesn't design their gliders to be motorized, tethered, or towed. So obviously they can't design quality towing equipment. They can just write articles talking about the issues introduced by the cheap dangerous crap their dealers pass off as towing equipment.
...and the glider is being pulled only from the top point...
The topmost of the three points.
...it may become unstable in pitch on tow.
Oh. It MAY become unstable in pitch on tow. But then again it may NOT. So maybe there's really nothing to worry about. 150 pounds or so pulling straight forward on the keel maybe a foot or so fore of the hang point it may keep going along just fine.
And even if it does become unstable that's probably just an up/down oscillation thing so we just need to stay on top of the situation, react quickly enough to keep things under control. It's not like it's gonna go down like a fuckin' brick or anything.
Use the bottom back up release only if you have a top release failure.
And if you have a top release failure you won't ever need to worry about any of the shit we just told you about.
All these motherfucker's are pretty much the same. Rooney feigns intelligent, wisdom, competence far beyond the grasp of us muppets but he's too much of a total moron to maintain his scam. Pagen and Rob have enough in the way of brains keep getting away with it forever but it's pretty much the same flavor of crap.
After doing Kite Strings all these years I can't even imagine any legitimate articles on the sport that we didn't hafta produce and publish ourselves.
Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC
I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself (and maybe the people at Wills Wing).
Nope. Long ago I'd held out some hope for that avenue - but we're it. And we don't have the smallest fraction of the critical mass it would take for Kite Strings to keep going after we stop.
(A day shy of a year since the last post in this topic.)
