http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=892
Redundant hook in check.
Bill Cummings - 2018/12/26 23:40:34 UTC
Since our earlier discussions with Tad E. on this topic I've been advocating the hang check and the lift and tug for the new pilots that I mentor.
Also I make it a point to include in all the videos that I post to show a hang check for each flight.
My hope is that new pilots will notice that Robin and I with our combined 80 years of experience are not yet arrogant enough to step up to launch without a hang check.
Bill Cummings
Since our earlier discussions with Tad E. on this topic...
Since Rob Kell's 2005/12 post Bill Priday magazine article didn't accomplish shit.
I've been advocating the hang check and the lift and tug for the new pilots that I mentor.
1. Good thing you're advocating the hang check. I shudder to think how many new pilots would be skipping it otherwise.
2. The hook-in check is MANDATED in the u$hPa pilot rating requirements. The hang check isn't mentioned.
Also I make it a point to include in all the videos that I post to show a hang check for each flight.
And why fuckin' bother with including the lift and tug. You've done the hang check already ferchrisake.
My hope is that new pilots will notice that Robin and I with our combined 80 years of experience...
...and unwavering terminal stupidity...
...are not yet arrogant enough to step up to launch without a hang check.
Ya know who IS arrogant enough to step up to launch without a hang check?
Rob Kells - 2005/12
My partners - Steve Pearson and Mike Meier - and I have over twenty-five thousand hang glider flights between us and have managed (so far) to have hooked in every time. I also spoke with test pilots Ken Howells and Peter Swanson about their methods (another five thousand flights). Not one of us regularly uses either of the two most popular methods (hang check and Aussie) outlined above.
Arrogant enough... Now where have we heard that before? Oh yeah...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2809
hook-in failures
Jim Rooney - 2007/10/31 13:31:04 UTC
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
YOU ARE ON CRACK!
I've yet to meet the pilot dumb enough or arrogant enough to fly without a backup loop. Perhaps you'll be the first then?
Thanks, I needed a laugh
But you ARE dumb enough and arrogant enough to fly without EITHER a primary or a backup loop.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4247
Hook in failure in New Zealand
Jim Rooney - 2006/09/24 21:19:29 UTC
Enough about what doesn't work though... what does?
Since we don't have a plug that only fits one way, we fall on lesser methods, but some are better than others...
In particular... Third Party Verification.
You won't save you, but your friends might.
Not always, but they're more reliable than you.
Why do you think that airline checklists (yes our lovely checklists) are check-verified by pilot AND copilot?
That's all I got for ya.
The other topics have been beat to death here.
If there was an answer, we'd all already be doing it.
And you don't have any friends who are gonna tell you your carabiner's dangling. You're WAY more likely to have someone quietly approach from behind and DISconnect you.
Bill Cummings - 2018/12/28 02:10:42 UTC
Centurylink, my wire line interrupt provider finally put all of New Mexico and some of the nearby states back on line this late afternoon. They went down sometime near 1:00 am this morning.
The Hawks had another thread about how to fix the taking off without being hooked in problem.
I was going to make a link to that thread but I don't know if my interrupt provider has yet established a firm grasp on the internet or if they are hanging on by their fingernails.
So without the link I'll tell you that I received a call from, "dohara" this evening. He first logged on to the Hawks Jan 17, 2013.
He was following the, "Redundant hook in check," thread and told me a story that unfolded in 1979 at the launch in Chattanooga. Sky Dog Bob Grant and his friend Malcolm had been waiting for a break in the clouds to launch. The Duluth Minnesota club, The Skyline Sky Dogs, had given up waiting on the clouds and went to town to find a bar. (Being a Sky Dog myself I'm sure they already knew where most of the bars were.)
Later they learned that Malcolm had launched unhooked and had hung onto the base tube. I'm assuming that hanging from the base tube will speed the glider up a good bit. Malcolm hung on until he came in contact with the tree tops below the launch and then he was stripped from the base tube. There was an estimated 80' fall from the top of the trees to the ground. Malcolm did not survive the fall.
This is the incident:
R.V. Wills - 1980/04
1979/12/31 - Jerome DuPrey - Sirocco III - Lookout Mountain, Tennessee
Hang IV Canadian pilot, with over 600 flights. Another tragic failure to hook in by a veteran. Hung onto the control bar uprights almost to the landing area, but fell from 50-75' after a 360.
I REALLY DOUBT that the wrong name was published.
dohara tells me that from then on he always hooked his harness to the glider and then got into the harness.
To leave the glider for any reason he wouldn't unhook but crawl out of the harness leaving it hooked to the glider.
Fuckin' Aussie Methodist douchebag. That bullshit fails all the fuckin time. And those assholes don't count the situations in which it CAN'T BE DONE - safely or AT ALL - as the dangerous failures they are.
Bob Kuczewski - 2018/12/28 05:20:17 UTC
I'm of the belief that each of us should do what we believe will be the safest reasonable choice.
I don't give a flying fuck about your goddam BELIEFS, Bob. Wilbur and Orville never got anything six inches off the ground as a consequence of anything they BELIEVED.
I added "reasonable" because the safest thing is to just stay home. I fear the government (or the health insurance companies) will someday mandate that for everyone ... after they've outlawed us driving our own cars.
Fuckin' government. Sure is a good thing we've got Trump in there putting an end to it and Making America Great Again. I have no clue as to how it ever got great the first time without Trump running everything.
If anyone has a system that you feel is good, please feel free to share it and promote it.
1. Good thing you told them that, Bob. Otherwise they might not feel free to share it and promote it.
2. 'Cept fer Tad, of course. Let that unrepentant child molester back in here and he'll make the US Hawks an unsafe place for people of varying ages to visit in a nanosecond.
My objection to Tad's presentation of "lift and tug" was that he wanted to force it on everyone in all circumstances.
Quote me, motherfucker. That's YOU defining and stating my position for me - since the US Hawks really does honor the free speech of one hundred percent of its voting members.
We're not all the same...
1. Thank gawd.
2. Yeah, but minus our gliders we all accelerate towards the surface a rate of 32 feet per second squared.
...and I believe we have a right to...
...totally ignore any of the conditions of our ratings and conditions we agreed to adhere to when obtaining FAA exemptions and...
...make our own decisions when it comes to our personal safety.
1. Says the motherfucker who got u$hPa to implement a regulation requiring me to have a helmet on while baking in the Ridgely launch line while all the Rooney Linkers keep cycling back in ahead of me for their free relights.
2. I sure as hell believe YOU should - 'specially when you're expanding on your very little experience with towing. I want you to be able to use the safest weak links capable of getting you airborne and the most easily reachable of all releases - preferably of the bent pin variety.
3. Funny I've never heard you rail against all the government mandated outrages to which you were subjected in your general aviation career. "Fuckin' big gov'mint ain't gonna tell ME to check my oil pressure before I take off and climb out over that playground just beyond the end of the runway!"
4. You do and don't do whatever the fuck you want, Bob. BUT...
http://www.energykitesystems.net/HGpilots/RobertKuczewski.html
Robert Kuczewski ||| Rated Hang Glider Pilot ||| United States Hang Gliding Rating System USHGRS
Robert M. Kuczewski
H4 Hang Glider Pilot, USHGRS life rating
FL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR
That's a
USHGA rating. And they've had a REQUIREMENT since seventeen months after Jerome bought it that states:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
And that was CLEARLY DEFINED as meaning AT LAUNCH POSITION and NOT fifteen seconds prior to launch. You've never done it, wouldn't ever consider doing anything along those lines with a gun to your head - so renounce your USHGA rating.
I renounce mine 'cause I got to be a competent pilot by REJECTING all the USHGA crap I was fed and swallowed for a lot of my flying career. Nobody's u$hPa rating means SHIT to me. Kelly Harrison was a goddam Greblo Five ferchrisake.
P.S. My previous post in this thread gives the latest lie to your perpetual bullshit about Tad's presentation of "lift and tug" and wanting to force it on everyone in all circumstances.
And I don't give a rat's ass what anybody NOT flying under the auspices of a u$hPa rating doesn't do just prior to launch. Or really under them for that matter. I would LOVE to see a video of Mike End-Of-Story Bomstad taking himself out of the gene pool minus his glider at Parker. But if I'M gonna be involved in establishing SOPs for a hang gliding organization there WILL BE an equivalent of the one u$hPa amended 1981/05 and it WILL BE
ENFORCED.
And there's no way in hell I'd be a part of any organization in which you'd have significant control and/or influence.
