Weak links

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60556
My launch on Tuesday

Joe Faust - 2019/08/19 04:37:38 UTC

Thanks, Davis.
[ ] Maybe a cross beam could be installed to allow no-concrete touch of your harness
but allow positioning of your legs easily left, center, right
in order that a leg-position bias does not influence the ground operations
or moving-off trolley operations. The video shows persistent
starboard positioning apparently now from the practice of
guarding harness from concrete rub.

Maybe we could form a committee to solve nonexistent problems like this. I wonder if a single backup loop is really adequate to keep us safely connected to our gliders.

Davis Straub - 2019/08/19 2:33:26 UTC

Holding the harness off the concrete.

Good job Davis. You kept your harness from being abraded by being dragged on the runway - like all thems what haven't been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who were getting theirs every launch.



Now if only there were some way we could figure out to keep your wingtip from being abraded by being dragged on the runway. Would foam do the trick? Two birds with one stone?

[ ] Second level question: Did your system allow you to abort from being towed without moving a hand off the basebar?

Tormod Helgesen - 2019/08/19 05:13:41 UTC

This is why I'm not comfortable with aerotowing, and the fact that a launch takes 10 minutes. It's frakking dangerous and tiring.

- Define "THIS". Davis's massive incompetence in turning what should've been a total simple no-brainer into what would've been a fatal if the focal point of his safe towing system had provided a safe limit on the tow force and worked before he'd gotten into too much trouble?

- So what are you comfortable with? Running off a slope because of its fake simplicity? Do we have any stats or anecdotal evidence to show that it's less than thirty times as dangerous as AT - which, having done a helluva lot of both, is where I'd put my money?

- A launch takes ten minutes? I get up to half a mile in four. And if it's conditions worth flying I'm often gonna get dropped off in something a grand below that.

- Virtually everything that's frakking dangerous about it is frakking dangerous by deliberate design - or lack thereof - and flagrant violations of regs and SOPs.
-- tow mast breakaways and their protectors
-- one-size-fits-all Davis Links
-- front end Pilots In Command who can fix whatever's going on back there by giving you the rope
-- Industry Standard easily reachable total crap excuses for towing equipment
-- pro toad bridles

- Tiring? So you're using a pro toad bridle. Try a two point to trim your nose down control bar forward to where they're supposed to be.

Zack C - 2011/03/04 05:29:28 UTC

As for platform launching, I was nervous about it when I started doing it. It looked iffy, like things could get bad fast. I've since logged around a hundred platform launches and have seen hundreds more. Never once was there any issue. I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions). You get away from the ground very quickly and don't launch until you have plenty of airspeed and excellent control.

Yeah, it's the safest - hands down, no contest, by a mile. BUT...

It SUCKS compared to AT.
- You need runways miles long preferably not lined with trees and/or powerlines.
- Your driver can't take you over to the thermal he found the previous tow.
- Rewind issues.

AT is inherently more dangerous but the additional risks can and should be managed down to ZILCH and it's a zillion times more efficient - which is why there aren't any platform based comps and fly-ins. (AT is also a zillion times more expensive and demanding of ground support.)

Davis Straub - 2019/08/19 11:34:15 UTC

My Russian mouth release would have allowed me to release at the 4 second mark. I haven't used it because it never seemed necessary until now.

I wasn't thinking about the harness being over to the right. The harness doesn't need to be there over the bar, just the foot to keep the harness off the concrete. The other foot is in the harness and it can be straight back toward the rear wheel. One can actually have both feet on the bars.

I'll find the other video of the sport class pilot having the same issue.

My Russian mouth release would have allowed me to release at the 4 second mark.

25-32016
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http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/14120804830_2aabd74d25_o.png
09-10817

- My Rube Goldberg two point system allows me to release at the zero second mark. Also to maintain safe control of my glider in its certified and legal configuration.

- Last I heard - post Jeff Bohl - you Questie motherfuckers sabotaged it so they could get it to fail and prevent it from getting into circulation. How are you planning on dealing with that issue? By pretending it never existed? The way you do with everything else?

I haven't used it because it never seemed necessary until now.

- I don't use my parachute and helmet because they've never seemed necessary. Also never do hook-in checks at mountain sites 'cause I've never launched unhooked and can't imagine any situation in which that might be a possibility.

- I never do the Wills Wing preflight sidewires stomp test because I:
-- don't fly a Wills Wing glider
-- have never had a sidewire failure
-- can't imagine myself ever having a sidewire failure
-- replace my sidewires with new ones every six months - even if I haven't flown the glider within that period
-- refuse to risk:
--- grinding my sidewires into sharp rocks
--- subjecting them to the deadly work hardening issue that has claimed the lives of so many of Red Howard's friends

- Bull fucking...


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


...shit.

- Maybe consider getting your knees down below the harness boot.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4931
Zapata

Pete Lehmann - 2011/06/24

Blood on the Tracks

And then there's my weak link break. I had been looking forward to attempting an unusual eighty mile flight to the south east along the Mexican border towards McAllen. But the instant I came off the cart my weak link broke. That shouldn't have been a problem as I had good speed to transition to a landing. However, I had zipped up my harness a bit too far and couldn't unzip it in the seconds available to me.

Still in my harness, I opted to belly land on the runway. Unfortunately the repaved runway has an extraordinarily coarse texture, that of a heavy grit sand paper, which resulted in my harness and knee being shredded. The harness can be fixed with Shoe Goo, but the knee required three stitches to pull together the resulting mess. The doctor who treated me at the clinic was sufficiently impressed by it to take some pictures for his colleagues. I was extraordinarily lucky, and can walk well and should be flying in a couple of days.

That'll help moderate the damage to the harness after your Davis Link increases the safety of the towing operation.

I wasn't thinking...

Goes without saying - obviously.

...about the harness being over to the right.

Or the fact that none of us have ever seen a pavement abraded or grass stained harness from an AT dolly launch.

The harness doesn't need to be there over the bar, just the foot to keep the harness off the concrete. The other foot is in the harness and it can be straight back toward the rear wheel. One can actually have both feet on the bars.

One can actually have both feet kicked into the boot...

101-081741
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http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/856/41655071881_455dd82026_o.png
102-081829

...in normal flying configuration - the way everybody else seems to be able to do it without turning a routine zilch launch into a near fatal. (Talk about dangerous Rube Goldberg solutions in search of nonexistent problems.)

I'll find the other video of the sport class pilot having the same issue.

Do make sure to show it to us when you do.

Davis Straub - 2019/08/19 11:34:51 UTC

Aerotowing takes less than 5 minutes.

Yeah?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

How long did it take when all you fuckin' douchebags were forcing everyone and his dog to fly with max safety margin Davis Links?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC

Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.

The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".

The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favourite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.

I get it.
It can be a pisser.

But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.

Ben Reese - 2019/08/19 13:23:36 UTC

The less stuff like cross beams the better since less to get caught on with harness cords and misc stuff. What Davis is doing with his foot is a simple adaption using existing minimal cart frame.

Keeping harness off ground is not so critical a problem other than cosmetic...

See above.

I'll tell ya one thing the sport got right... Launch dollies are pretty damn solid 'cause high volume commercial operations wouldn't make it through the weekend otherwise.

[<BS>]

[ ] Second level question: Did your system allow you to abort from being towed without moving a hand off the basebar?

My Russian mouth release would have allowed me to release at the 4 second mark. I haven't used it because it never seemed necessary until now.

Of course without saying, means no.
Odds are in your favor it'll never seem necessary again.

[<BS>]

I have no idea what a time station is.

It's a common hang gliding term. We talk about them all the time. Also in lotsa sci-fi movies. And here I was thinking you'd been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

This is more of a when's when thing.

[Tad Eareckson]

Of course without saying, means no.

Davis would undoubtedly break out in a severe rash if one were to put a gun to his head and force him to honestly and efficiently convey meaning and/or substance.

Odds are in your favor it'll never seem necessary again.

I dunno... He flies a helluva lot and seems to be becoming markedly stupider with each passing year.

This is more of a when's when thing.

And while Davis certainly has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who he still falls markedly short of having been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what, who's who, and when's when. And he may get sidetracked some by working on where's where.

Ben Reese post next in line. It'll probably take me a day and a half.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60556
My launch on Tuesday

Ben Reese - 2019/08/19 14:24:50 UTC

Yes Tormod,

You are exactly right...

And when's he ever been exactly wrong about anything?

...towing is one of the most dangerous aspects of HG today.

Fuck yeah! The statistics are absolutely staggering. 'Specially now that everyone and his dog are using...

02-00820c
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...lethal Tad-O-Links...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Marc Fink - 2007/05/19 12:58:31 UTC

Tad,

The simple fact is that hundreds of thousands of tows using weaklinks in their present configuration successfully bely your contentions that we're all crazy for towing that way.

Simply put, your statements are irresponsible and are based on your personal interpretations.

I am a tow operator--as well as a "towee." I also do aerotow tandems. Using greenline or similar line, which generally tests at 125 lbs +- 50 lbs is widely accepted because it simply works well and relatively predicatably for the enormous range of conditions and applications in towing. If this weren't true, then accident rates would be much higher and these kinds of weaklinks would have been abandoned along time ago.

A 400lb load limit for a solo tow is absurd.

...that almost never break when they're supposed to. Trading off safety for convenience. As in this very incident under discussion at present.

There is a lack of control for the towed HG similar to the Death Zone in PG under 200' AGL.

Suck my dick Ben. Yeah, there's a two hundred foot kill zone for AT. But that's 'cause of how much air you can eat up in an inconvenience stall after a Rooney Link increases the safety of the towing operation or functions as your instant hands free release when you need to keep both hands on the control bar 'cause there's no way in hell you can get to your Industry Standard easily reachable bent pin pro toad release and pry it open fast enough to stay alive.

Until the glider starts locking out, and low level / kill zone lockouts are extremely rare for halfway competent flyers, over-control is the issue that needs to be guarded against - as per Holly Korzilius's 2005/05/29 first and last experiment with flying pro toad at Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's Manquin op.

A normal moderate strength thermal hits a paraglider in that altitude zone and he no longer has a wing to play with before the ground comes up.

That 1st 50' of tow and mostly the transition from cart to free tow is subject to prop wash, wing tip vortices, ground turbulence...

All of which are totally fake issues. None of that crap crashes gliders. Cite one single incident anywhere to give evidence to the contrary.

...and unseen dust devils.

THIS:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

was a dust devil incident. Flying pro toad with an easily reachable bent pin release, his Standard Aerotow Weak Link determines that he hasn't yet gotten into too much trouble, the tug dumps him, and he STILL pulls out in time. And the motherfucker doesn't fly pro toad anymore.

A cocktail of risk and chance that the HG lacks aerodynamic control over much like a PG would suddenly get Para Collapse from far less dramatic turbulence.

For some of us, that cocktail of risk is to much, like yourself and me included...

Fuck some of us, like yourself and me included.

Truck towing with the proper setup eliminates much of those risks.

So does a quality release / bridle / weak link system.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14221
Tad's release

Tad Eareckson - 2008/12/16 16:14:02 UTC

Anybody else ever notice that the ONLY AT pilots we hurt or kill are the ones who have to reach for their release actuators?

Paul Farina - 2008/12/16 16:42:24 UTC

I rest my case.

Neither you nor anyone else can cite a single incident of anyone flying a quality system ever getting so much as a skinned knee. Ditto for citing a catastrophic incident that wouldn't have been if a quality system had been used and the flying had been halfway competent.

1. No cart to deal with since you have a stable launch bed.

A decent launch dolly is a stable enough launch bed. Cite an incident to indicate otherwise.

2. No tow plane prop wash.
3. No tow plane wing tip vortices.

Fake issues. We can handle MAJOR stuff. We don't get fazed by minor trash like that.

4. A straight flight path predetermined in advance.

As opposed to the S-patterns that AT uses for its launches.

Static Ground Tow eliminates the Truck allowing foot launch.

ALLOWING foot launch? Oh joy. Everybody knows that foot is far superior to platform and dolly. No wait. One can certainly foot launch behind a tug or platform rig if one feels like it. I wonder why nobody ever seems to feel like it.

All the above still apply to Static Tow..

Agreed - idiot. (Whatever the hell "Static Tow" is supposed to mean nowadays.)

However safer these methods may appear there is still the element of risk of control, lockout and ground turbulence remain unseen in time to respond.

If only we could harness the energy of all those assholes who don't actually engage in any of these activities but have untold hundreds of hours to spew their expert opinions on what's wrong with them... Bob? Any thoughts? Maybe get Dennis Pagen to talk to him?

The tow operator must be extremely cautious during the launch phase in that 1st 50'.

Oh. 'Cause there's a surface there that can fuck things up for us? Never thought about that before. Better stick with mountain launches in which there's no surface to present a threat during the launch phase.

My personal feeling is that Static tow is the safest method with a slight head wind blowing.

Well your personal feeling is more than good enough for me. Let's get this carved into granite before your personal feelings change.

All pilots should learn towing dynamics by 1st doing Static ground towing with HG.

What? And totally disregard the opinions and wisdom of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight?

This would help with. the safety and knowledge needed for more complex tow methods..

Fuck no. More complexity is always a giant step backwards. KISS.

It is completely obvious that Davis and others have hundreds and even thousands of tows under them and yet there are dynamics like discussed here, pilots are unsure of.

Yeah, if something like this:

14-0614 - 19-0815


can happen to a Davis Straub we mere muppets have obviously all been living on borrowed time for decades.

Even though Davis is certain of...

Goddam near anything he cares to talk about. And anyone with any different takes gets banned and has his topic locked or deleted.

...the events and how to, respond...

Just hang out with your hands on the control bar and wait for impact. Or, what the hell, go for your easily reachable pro toad release...

07-300
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http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3141/12981414774_e6ddd85c13_o.png
15-413

...if that's what floats your boat. Six of one...

..it's still obvious all gliders on tow are lacking enough control authority to avoid dragging a wing on the ground at times.

And we can largely ignore shit like:

07-1412
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13-1525
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15-1620
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5590/14374149620_03c742c998_o.png


'cause it passes the KISS Test with flying colors and doesn't get witnessed by nearly as many individuals.

I have to be honest and fair in my critique of both PG and HG safety risk factors.

Goes without saying. Who'da ever thunk otherwise?

Just because I promote HG, I will not ignore dangers in HG that are as bad or worse than Para Collaspe.

But please do continue limiting your critique to fringe caliber tow stuff - like this current bullshit from Davis.

That 1st 50' of towing by any means is very risky.

- Particularly for incompetent glider jock bozos like Davis.
- And please don't forget to mention the final six inches of landing - regardless of launch method.

It's a lottery for a helicopter ride also. But this lottery is for launch only in an HG.

In PG that lottery is in launch and landing every time you pass through the "200' AGL Death Zone".

Even pointing out the dangers of HG in towing that some will call equal to risk of PG, it's obvious that the gliders aerodynamic integrity is far superior to that of a PG.. It's only lack of directional control that multiplies the risk of HG under tow. This is only for a very short part of the flight in HG.

See this shit?

14-0614 - 18-0801

20-0902 - 21-0913

22-1002 - 23-1020


That's Davis getting his Davis induced lockout getting stopped by the runway surface and Davis getting his stupid pro toad ass pulled by the tug back in the DIRECTION it was supposed to be going all along. (Maybe we should mandate a demonstration of this lockout recovery technique as a fundamental requirement for an AT rating. (And get Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight to run the clinics.)

The PG has aerodynamic integrity issues from inflation to deflation... From start to finish.
The complete flight is taken at risk of para collaspe..

- Nicely consistent in your misspelling.

- They do fine...

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84789157/paragliders-injured-after-a-crash-in-queenstown
Paragliders injured in Queenstown crash | Stuff.co.nz

Dasha Kuprienko - 2016/09/30 08:33

In a statement, Skytrek Tandem Hang Gliding and Paragliding said the injured pair landed on a slope on the side of Coronet Peak, about halfway between the take-off point at Coronet Peak car park and the intended landing point at Flight Park, off Malaghans Rd.

Weather conditions were stable at the time, and it was not yet known why the incident happened, the company said.

in smooth air.

This is why it is of little value to compare risk factors of each sport to justify the other.. It's a silly comparison of no real value since flight profiles are different for each craft.

Gawd I wish this asshole would STFU.

HG needs to deal with towing deficiencies much the way we did with divergent gliders and engineer out a solution to lockout and lack of control authority for the HG under tow.

- But whatever it is make sure it's not too complex - extra parts translates to increased failure rates.

- Just as long as that solution doesn't involve a properly engineered two point release that can be blown while maintaining full control of the aircraft. We've spent way too many decades explaining why that isn't an actual issue.

All safety practices and training cannot fully compensate for the true risk of HG Aero Towing.
It's very helpful, but not truly safe enough to brag about...

It's good to talk about these issues and work through them.. This is the true value of the OZ report forum as the means to a safer sport.

Good thing you have the Davis Show in which to run your mouth incessantly with nothing of substance to say about anything. Davis has banned all the people who know what the fuck they're talking about so there's tons of spare bandwidth to utilize.

(Gawd that was an awful experience.)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/24 12:20:06 UTC

Bad habit #1, not flying the glider... just letting the tug drag you around by the nose, combines with the fact that pro towing REQUIRES the pilot to do something (not let that bar move). So instead of holding the bar where it is, bad habit pilot just lets the tug pull him. This pulls him through the control frame with the same effect as the pilot pulling in... a LOT.

I've seen gliders go negative while still on the cart this way.
The results are never pretty.

01-0000 - 07-0321

14-0614 - 18-0801

20-0902 - 21-0913

22-1002 - 23-1020


http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 06:15:12 UTC

You may not know, but Davis is a friend of mine.
We have discussed this many times in person. We are not in disagreement.

If you can not see that we're in agreement, perhaps I can clear things up for you. Or Davis can.
Either way, you're the one creating the drama.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

[<BS>]

My Russian mouth release would have allowed me to release at the 4 second mark. I haven't used it because it never seemed necessary until now.

Odds are in your favor it'll never seem necessary again.

I dunno... He flies a helluva lot and seems to be becoming markedly stupider with each passing year.

You wanna bet on improved perception?

[Tad Eareckson]

Speaking of perception...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60556
My launch on Tuesday

Davis Straub - 2019/08/18 19:14:37 UTC

A couple of things.

All the hang glider pilots were going through what we all think is prop wash. You can see this in my video where I get "jiggled" a few second before the left wing gets lifted. We have multiple videos of this happening. I don't recall this being an issue in previous meets at Big Spring. Perajsp because we were mostly using tugs with 914 or 912 engines before. All 582's this time.

Mine was not the only occurrence like this one. It also happened to a Sport Class pilot a day earlier.

Davis Straub - 2019/08/20 02:21:44 UTC

Another pilot, the day earlier: http://ozreport.com/pub/images/20190812_144801.mp4

Davis Straub - 2019/08/20 02:25:22 UTC

Again this is the first time we have experienced prop wash while on the carts. As I said, it has actually picked us and the carts off the concrete. Many of the other videos show it also.

We have always emphasized pulling in and getting the keel off the back cradle ASAP.

BTW, this is totally opposite of the method used at Wallaby Ranch where they there keep the nose high.

Davis Straub - 2019/08/20 02:46:55 UTC

The glider is flying as soon as it gets enough speed behind the tug. The pilot must definitely control the glider from that time all the way up. We pilots are continually doing this. We have plenty of control behind a tug at any altitude.

There are risks whenever you are close to the round. True launching and landing.

Prop wash is an issue, but until this competition we have not experienced it as very much of an issue. We are learning about it after hundreds of tows (for me personally) and tens of thousands of tows for the community.

It is my experience that aerotowing for me is by far the safest means of getting into the air.

Brad Gryder - 2019/08/20 9:37:39 UTC

In this second video, this second pilot, just like the first pilot, allowed the glider to lift out of the dolly in a severe asymmetric fashion.

Davis Straub - 2019/08/20 12:32:48 UTC

I'm sure that in both cases both pilots were holding on with tight grips to the hose handle below the base bar. The handle was torn from their grips by the force of the left wing rising.

I'm sure that we were both wearing gloves. I had my slightly thicker gloves on that day. I normally wear extremely thin gloves.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Grease-Monkey-Large-Gorilla-Grip-Gloves-25053-030/202709681

Davis Straub - 2019/08/20 12:35:58 UTC

I see the pilot all the way over to the left with his whole body as soon as the left wing rises.

The smoking gun video for the smoking gun video. Another horrible vertical (1080x1920) format job - but at least the resolution doesn't suck this time. Killed most of the day doing the stills harvest. Chopped about the top half off of the first eleven to make the embedded images not grotesque and trimmed the remainder down to save the bandwidth a lot of empty sky and concrete and lateral crap.

And you can REALLY see what's going on here and how totally clueless all the Davis Show douchebags still are about both of these launches.

01-0000
- 01 - chronological order
- 00 - seconds
- 00 - frame (30 fps)

01-0000
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48585961852_7fc3682d26_o.png


Pro toad. The kool kids don't need no faggot attachment at the third point to trim the nose down. (And note the usual idiot carabiner configuration - not to mention all the shoddy idiot backup suspension crap in the airflow.)

02-0004
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48585817646_7002a1fa8d_o.png


They can handle that just fine by pulling in a bit.

03-0008
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48585817301_d2c8ac2615_o.png


But he never once pulls in a half an inch until he's being dragged up off the cart in a half catastrophic starboard roll. (Good thing he has that backup loop. Ya just never know when something bad might happen. (And I'm assuming he's packing his razor-sharp cutting tools to slash through his lines in an instant if all else fails with his state-of-the-art tow equipment.))

Note in the two frames above the "dugout" for the keel on the bottom edge of the support. Looks like somebody had an idea that looked good on paper. (I was trying to figure that out from the low res crap I got from the other video.)

04-0011
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Note the red ribbon at the bottom end of the port control tube. Doesn't seem to be a crosswind of any significance. And nothing along that line has been reported anyway.

05-0022
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06-0102
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07-0108
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His pro toad bridle must be a mile long. Look where the tow ring protector funnel is.

08-0112
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Way the fuck over to starboard at but it doesn't matter at this point.

09-0116
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10-0123
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11-0129
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And he mostly comes back.

12-0211
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13-0222
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But now look at his left arm and how much black there is to the starboard of centerline.

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And it fuckin' STAYS THERE. And there's not a HINT of any pull-in.

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Wing coming up at Time Station Five, still starboard and pitch neutral.

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Keel's still in the cradle. He's never bothered to pull in. (Probably bracing himself against it 'cause he's afraid of getting pulled through the control frame.)

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Comes out of the cart at Mach 5 and SLAMS into the propwash. Towing out there in the desert, like it or not, you get to see it and see it in a big way - big ol' cloud of dust and rocks.

And you're wondering why he breaks his weak link???? Are you kidding me?

Think about it. He's going a million miles an hour under huge (relatively speaking) line tension as he comes blazing out of the cart - struggling to stay down - and slams into turbulent air. Hell yes he's going to break his weak link. That's what it's there for!

He subjected it to massive loading. (The shock loading a weak link sees as you hit the propwash is far greater than people appreciate.) That's why he has it... it's doing its job.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27494
The exciting bits
2012/05/28 11:49:58 UTC

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And note how pulled in he is. (Now that it's way the hell too late.)

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Don't worry, Prequel Davis... If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble. And even if it doesn't your tug driver (Bobby Bailey, the best in the business?) can fix whatever's going on back there by giving you the rope. And following the ensuing inconvenience you can get back on the cart and give it another shot - head of the line. (No extra charge 'cause you were under a thousand feet.)

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67 posts so far at Davis's douchebag colony and still not a single whisper about the focal point of our safe towing system.

[<BS>]

Looks like a wing responding appropriately to control inputs.

PS I think I see indicators showing light cross from right. Maybe a planned diagonal takeoff path.

[Tad Eareckson]

Looks like a wing responding appropriately to control inputs.

Which is quite remarkable given that none of the manufacturers design their gliders to be motorized, tethered, or towed.

PS I think I see indicators showing light cross from right. Maybe a planned diagonal takeoff path.

Difficult to not reach that conclusion when carefully watching the inputs. Well executed, I'd say.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60556
My launch on Tuesday

Jim Gaar - 2019/08/19 14:27:15 UTC

Let's see the stats on that one...

Ben Reese - 2019/08/19 14:24:50 UTC

There is a lack of control for the towed HG similar to the Death Zone in PG under 200' AGL.

I'm going to say, uhh, absolutely not true.

And you'd certainly be a top expert on assessing what is and isn't true.

Ben Reese - 2019/08/19 14:43:50 UTC

Is anyone surprised?
NO! None are surprised.

Leading Edge - 2019/08/19 15:42:45 UTC

Well, just like that this conversation ended when folks start spewing about things where they have little experience.

What does experience have to do with anything? Davis is the subject of this one, he has experience coming outta his ass, and he turned what should've been a Hang 2.3 level brain dead easy exercise into a near fatal. What kind of experience do we need to know how plop oneself on a launch cart and hold on to a couple of hoses until one's glider's going really fast?

All of the mainstream forums have banned all the individuals with functional brains so all you're left with is experience. And as we've just seen in these two Big Spring videos experience minus any functional brains doesn't get anyone shit.

Last I checked, foot launching also carries risks like FTHI...

Only for the total fucking assholes who refuse to execute hook-in checks. (Just about everyone.)

...blown launches, and associated risks of climbing out from often hostile terrain whilst juggling things like not getting pushed over the back.

Been there, done all those. Never had a dangerous AT launch though.

AT, like foot launching is as dangerous as you make it.

You hafta try hard to blow an AT launch. Did anybody notice Davis doing anything RIGHT?

Jim Gaar - 2019/08/19 16:29:55 UTC

Truth be told?

Why yes it can be...

Real quality post as usual, Rodie cool dude.

Brad Gryder - 2019/08/19 19:37:51 UTC

I agree.
Also, the best way to avoid troublesome propwash and wake turbulence is to never get lower than the tug.

How often do we see gliders lower than tugs and when we do who's most likely to be at fault.

If a pilot doesn't want to deal with the launch dolly, he can elect to foot launch behind the tug...

You won't be permitted to fly with a Rube Goldberg release system or Tad-O-Link 'cause who knows what might happen but you WILL BE allowed to foot launch. (What's the worst that could happen?)

...but most experts agree that the risk is lower when dolly launching vs foot launch aerotowing.

What do the most muppets agree on? Find me a video of a foot launched AT - asshole.

This is especially true on hard surfaced runways.

- Duh.
- How 'bout foot landings on hard surfaced runways following Standard Aerotow Weak Link inconveniences?

http://blog.4herrings.com/2011/08/11/zapata-world-record-encampment-wre-2011-parte-dos/
Zapata World Record Encampment (WRE) 2011- Parte Dos | Cloud Base addict

BJ Herring - 2011/08/11

Stalwart of the WRE and friend Pete Lehmann let his knee have an affair with the runway. Needless to say it was short and dirty and needed antibiotics as the bone made contact.

How do those usually work out?

If only one ankle is locked onto the dolly's frame tubing, this asymmetric posture will yaw the cg over and cause the glider to roll.

Wow! I sure wish I had the experience needed to be able to understand dynamics like those.

We should caution pilots not to do this, because when they come out of the dolly they might experience Dutch Roll. [pun intended]

We should probably also caution pilots not to fly into powerlines, because when they do this the glider's flight characteristics may be negatively affected and many of the components of the glider and pilot are known to conduct electricity.

(Notice the pretentious pseudo-intellectual drivel void created with Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's graduation to bigger and better things gradually filling back in? Nature so does abhor a vacuum.

During take-off, it's always better to drag the tail (or pod harness' tip) than to drag a wingtip.

Can you say that again slowly so's I can get it written down accurately?

Some pilots add velcroed skid pads to their harnesses so they can concentrate on more important things.

Rube Goldberg bullshit. The more parts you have the greater the probability of failure. Besides, that makes all those guys test pilots. And I don't tow test pilots.

Leading Edge - 2019/08/19 20:02:15 UTC

Bart Weghorst - 2019/08/16 13:07:59 UTC

Lower body is resting on the right side of the cart. Also Bobby is taking off before you do. I would adjust my launch technique if I were you.

Extremely sage advise.

Right up there with:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..

Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.

and:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Bart Weghorst - 2011/08/28 20:29:27 UTC

Now I don't give a shit about breaking strength anymore. I really don't care what the numbers are. I just want my weaklink to break every once in a while.

I consider myself an experienced AT pilot but Bart's recommendations on my technique have made me a better (and safer) pilot.

Fuck yeah. And do be sure to attend one of his AT weak link seminars sometime.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36170
Weak Links?

Bart Weghorst - 2018/09/14 17:58:16 UTC

Please understand that the use of weak links does not prevent a lockout. They could help but they really serve a different purpose. I don't like to explain all this here because I think this forum is not a good medium to teach hang gliding subjects like these. When in doubt, consult an experienced AT operator and attend an AT course.

Cheap at any price. 'Specially now in this era of hang glider towing evolution in which no one breathes a single whisper on the subject. Ditto with respect to flashlights, bananas, rubber ducks.

In my case, I was both pulling in a bit too much and holding on a bit too long in the hopes that speed and energy would make up for lack of focus on technique.

That was fucking moronic. Use the Wallaby launch progression...

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...and you'll be up to your ass in focus on technique.

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