landing

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv2UpWeQQJY
To Fly: Discover Hang Gliding
Introductory video from the U.S. Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association - 2007/06/07

6:07 - Wheel landings are best for tandem flight and are inherently safer, smoother, and easier.
However, when your tandem instructor is safely on the ground and you're flying solo...
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.

Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
03. Rating Requirements

06. Beginner Hang Gliding Rating (H-1)
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks
04. Airspeed recognition and control.
-a. Two flights, predetermined to show:
iii. Safe, smooth landing, on feet, into wind.
-b. Two flights, predetermined to show:
iii. Safe, smooth landing, on feet, into wind.

07. Novice Hang Gliding Rating (H-2)
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks
02. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge
-j. Demonstrates three consecutive landings within 100' of a target (or optional landing task - see Addendum 1 - Optional Landing Task), safe, smooth, on feet and into the wind.

08. Intermediate Hang Gliding Rating (H-3)
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks
02. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge
-g. For witnessed tasks, all landings must be safe, smooth, on the feet, and in control.

09. Advanced Hang Gliding Rating (H-4)
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks
02. Demonstrated Skills and Knowledge
-f. All landings must be safe, smooth, on the feet and in control.
...he's gonna make you do all your landings safely, smoothly, on your feet, and in control and...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses
Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
...the odds of your crashing and breaking an arm or two or otherwise getting seriously fucked up are gonna go through the ceiling.
7:58 - We have all dreamed of flying and this is flying at it's best! Hang gliding is really where less is more - flight in its purest form. Live the dream! Start flying today!
And don't worry too much about your flare timing. You're bound to get that nailed after a few hundred flights. Just about everybody does.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25342
Skull protection
Christopher LeFay - 2012/02/24 08:32:15 UTC
Istanbul

My Kevlar Magic had about a half inch of foam compression, fractured chin guard; I ended up with a bit of brain damage- but lived.
Yeah, that WOULD explain a bit.
Do you suspect the Charley Insider was inadequate?
They all are. They may keep you from cracking your skull but they can't do anything to keep you from snapping your neck. And if you've gotten yourself into a skull cracking situation your neck is up for grabs. You're rolling dice.
Geoffrey Chaney - 2012/02/24 12:08:23 UTC

It seems to me, that the best head protection is excellence in flying skills, staying within your limitations, and putting safety first.
No, yes, yes.

There's very little in the way of flying skill we need to keep our heads from getting smashed. We mostly just need to stay the hell out of situations in which not getting our heads smashed is dependent on excellent flying skills. And that's REAL easy to do.

Save the excellent skills for dune soaring, thermalling, XC, and - if you really must - aerobatics.

And, generally speaking, a Hang Five shouldn't be operating in a critical situation much outside the limitations of a Hang Two and a Half.

Don't come into fields - or field substitutes - in which you're gonna need anything over basic skills. Coming into landings which require or you are exercising excellent skills is the best way to need a good helmet.

And I don't know how many crashes we've gotta watch to understand that light air standup landings require excellent skills. (I was always at least twenty times more scared (and less successful) doing that than skimming a dune with my downwind tip in the sand.)
I know accidents will always happen...
Name one.
...but the best defense is a good defense...
Totally.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Paul Voight - 1999/06
Ellenville, New York

Recently, one of our regular local pilots at Ellenville Mountain, New York, Laszlo Babarczik, tripped while running out a landing and suffered a broken neck. He is presently hospitalized, having had surgery performed to put the broken bones back in place.

Laszlo is a self-employed construction worker, and has no insurance coverage. Obviously, his medical expenses are going to be substantial. We (the Southern New York Hang Glider Pilots Association) have set up a fund for him, and hope that each of you fellow pilots will consider making a donation to this fund. Please help us help our friend in need.

Checks can be made payable to SNYHGPA with "Laszlo Fund" noted in the memo. Please mail them to the following address:

Dave Slodki
One Bay Club Drive, #18W
Bayside, NY 11360
1. This was OBVIOUSLY in the narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place just short of the Ellenville Happy Acres putting green that he couldn't quite make, right Paul?

2. So it would've been totally insane for him to have even thought about coming in on the wheels, right Paul?

3. He DID have wheels though, didn't he Paul? I'm sure he did 'cause that's something you really safety conscious ace instructors stress all the time.

4. Did he have a parachute? When was the last time it was repacked?

5. Did you get a good video clip for your whack tape?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26517
Upcoming shoulder surgery
Davis Straub - 2012/02/01 19:49:54 UTC

I experienced a full tear of the tendon on September 22nd at the Santa Cruz Flats Race after I tripped while running out a landing on the third to last day.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings
George Stebbins - 2012/01/27 16:05:22 UTC

This is just what Joe Greblo has been saying about the moonwalk. Teach them the easy way to land first, then after they've got flying and landing safely figured out, teach them the hard way. Yes, they can't use the moonwalk everywhere.
1. Isn't that the same Joe Greblo moonwalk that Davis was using at that airstrip when he tripped on the third to last day of the last year's Santa Cruz Flats Race?

2. How come this guy breaks his neck and Davis just tears a tendon? Doesn't seem quite fair.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26517
Upcoming shoulder surgery
George Stebbins - 2012/02/06 19:45:54 UTC

And also note that the largest cause of death from impact in hang gliding is head/neck/chest injuries. You don't die when you hit your legs and/or hips...

Yet another reason to have feet down and moving (or ready to move.)
1. Good thing he had his feet down and moving so it was just his legs and/or hips instead of his neck, right George?

2. No wait! It WAS his neck! And yet his legs and hips came through just fine. This is MOST confusing.

3. Oh well, if he had come in prone he'd have undoubtedly broken his neck a lot worse. Probably would've also gotten serious head injuries and a torn aorta.

P.S. How's Laszlo doing these days? Gettin' much airtime? I just did a google search on him and came up empty.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Bill Bryden - 1999/05

1998 Annual Incident Summary

A disturbing aspect of the reports is that fully half were approach and landing related. And when examining the specifics, many of these were related to poor decision-making.

Several were downwind landings by relatively inexperienced pilots. Instructors need to emphasize wind assessment more strongly during their training.

A couple of the landing accidents involved gusts or thermals that hit as the pilot flared, hut more were simply the result of had decisions to land in rotor turbulence or downwind of significant obstacles.

Two injuries, a fractured humerus and torn ankle ligaments, would clearly have been avoided had the pilots just elected to use wheels, and three accidents had significantly mitigated injuries because wheels were present.

Approach accidents were typically associated with bad judgment with respect to the glider, obstacles, and last-moment changes to avoid obstacles. These are problems you'd expect from Novice pilots, but seven out of the twelve reports involved experienced Intermediate or Advanced pilots.

Two people were hit by gliders landing, and several trees were hit.
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25382
Funston Crashes 2.26.11

The folks I talked to said the wind line was obvious. They chose to land before it hit, park their gliders and enjoy show.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Does anyone else think the show would've been less enjoyable if the entertainers had stayed prone on the basetubes all the way down - even without wheels and zipped up in their pods?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25410
tail wind-mushed flare-broken humerus
hifly69 - 2012/03/01 02:18:13 UTC
UK

I have been flying on and off for around seventeen years (three bent uprights, one crash early on in career lucky to walk away from) the last three with PG as well. Like most UK hill pilots, I have become used to flying in windy conditions and a week ago after top landing perfectly well, I took off and proceeded to ridge soar/thermal (20 mph wind strength).

As a sink cycle developed, I decided to land but on turning onto finals I noticed that the approach was too busy so I turned back for another beat but this time into a heap of sink which took me eighty feet below ridge height = bottom landing call for me.

Set up a normal best guess approach (45 degrees off wind at ridge) no wind indicators. At a hundred feet noticed that I was quick, v quick poss wind was four to five tail. I had expected at least five mph headwind and had mentally prepared for that and thought I could run it off.

Legs down at twenty feet I pulled on some speed and prepared to flare/run. I should have put my hands much higher as I ran out of flare authority with arms fully extended. Instead it stalled and mushed which led to a hard impact-whack. Wheels failed to help in the soft ground conditions... I got trapped upright and as basebar dug in I lurched sideways against the rear left hand side upright.

Result-shattered humerus, excruciating pain and two operations to plate the arm back together - nerves survived intact luckily. No damage to glider.

Glider Laminar 13 - I was about three Kgs over recommended all up weight - ok in strong winds but a problem in light conditions. This glider is known to be a handfull to land in light winds. Last nil wind landing four months ago on a forgiving Java 155. Early career, loads of flatland towing - lots nil/cross/tail landings.

I am writing this now because I cannot sleep due to the pain. My wife no longer wants me to carry on flying and my three kids are clearly shocked and upset by the events. I also run a business... all the classic problems of a typical older male hangie. I also had chemo five years ago which damaged the veins in my right arm - meaning getting needles into that arm was difficult and painful as successive veins collapsed. I knew that this was a risk if I needed more treatment or another operation.

A slight misjudgement on my part has left me with a significant injury rather than a bent upright. Deep down I am questioning my continued participation, particularly as so many people depend on me... but I am used to flying once a week and it will be difficult to stop... Any thoughts out there? Cheers.
Steve Corbin - 2012/03/01 03:16:36 UTC
Crestline

After a back breaking accident a few years ago, I have been landing using basetube mounted wheels. I remain prone, and fly a foot or two above the ground as the speed bleeds off. The lower half of the harness touches down first as I go to full arm extension. The wheels touch down when the glider stalls, and I slide a few feet. With a portion of my weight on the ground, the glider has less wing loading so the stall speed is very low, maybe only ten or twelve mph.

Of course the harness gets grass stained and/or dirty. I'm imagineering an "apron" made of the same mylar used in our leading edges, that will velcro to the harness and protect it.

I sympathize with you facing this dilemma. My suggestion is to just slow down a bit, maybe go back to easier gliders. I recommend my landing style, I truly believe I'll never break another downtube.

Final approach used to be a somewhat anxious moment for me, as I never did get truly great at landing these high performance gliders. I guess I did a good job no more than half the time, the rest involved dropping a wing or whacking. Now that I land prone using wheels, I'm much more relaxed on final.

Good luck and God bless. Steve
Bill Taylor - 2012/03/01 04:00:35 UTC
Willows, California

I understand your pain. I broke both bones in my right leg last summer. No wind, flared a little early, popped up four to six feet, held it, and landed on my rear. No problem until I tried to stand up.

Just happened to land in a gopher hole. Gopher 1, Leg 0.

My buddy couldn't believe it and said I had a good landing. My U2 wasn't hurt at all! Well two surgeries and two plates and three months off work, six months off flying, I am back in the air. A little cautious and still some pain but it feels great flying.
Jack Barth - 2012/03/01 06:19:58 UTC
Lake Elsinore

Fortunately I haven't broken anything over my 33 years, but had two significant whacks where I came close. On a Duck 180 no wind landing failed to hold the flare and it nosed in. DT left major impression in my forearm that took months to return to normal. Barely bent the DT.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings
George Stebbins - 2012/03/01 23:14:52 UTC

Years ago, I was in a spot landing contest. I was going right over the cone, but too fast. I gave a good solid flare, but ended up about six feet off the deck. I held it, like in the previous video, and landed with the keel inserted into the cone, and then through the center of the hub-cap that was under the cone. I was uninjured. I did break the end of my keel though...

Yes, it was well done. Yes it was stupid. But it does show Jim's point. Hold it. Hard. Agressively.

Oh, yea. I did win the spot landing contest. But it wasn't worth it. As I said, I was stupid.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21088
What you wish you'd known then?
Doug Doerfler - 2011/03/02 05:24:44 UTC

Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.
PARTICIPATING IN the spot landing contest is what was stupid.
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

Tad Eareckson wrote:Does anyone else think the show would've been less enjoyable if the entertainers had stayed prone on the basetubes all the way down - even without wheels and zipped up in their pods?
Not ignoring your question. I have not seen the video yet.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

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Jump to next post:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post1674.html#p1674

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
NMERider - 2012/03/14 04:29:47 UTC

Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
Whoa! Dude. How many are you up to at this point?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5tlQ6RWMeg
Snap That Tip Wand!
ThermalSlut - 2012/03/13
dead

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At the end of this flight:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25466
Low Saves & Scenic Vistas

I flared a bit early with my upwind wing a tad higher then my downwind and by the time I realize I was hosed, the right-hand wand twanged in pretty good. I seem to have an ongoing difficultly with keeping my wings leveled and yaw-free during ground skim.
Ground skim...

I usually envision something a little different when I hear the term ground skim. Kinda like a Cessna's doing towards the end of final.
Anyone got any ideas on how to keep wings leveled and yaw-free during skim?
No.
Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...
Not really. And anyway...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=23199
Santa Cruz Flats Race Day 1 & 2 - Video
NMERider - 2011/09/21 00:37:09 UTC

I dislike having anything in my field of view when I'm flying other than my instrument pod. That goes for bar mitts as well as wheels. I just don't want them.
No self respecting hang glider pilot would want a nasty pair of wheels in his field of view. Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.

And the really important things are that you:

- got upright early so there was no dangerous late transition;

- had your hands way up high on the downtubes for excellent roll and flare authority;

- exercised really excellent flare authority;

- stayed on your feet so if you had been coming into a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place or a field filled with seven foot high corn instead of the Kagel Happy Acres putting green you'd have been fine - 'cept for the tip wand.
Note: The first pilot who nearly whacks is the best pilot in the Sylmar club. In spite of the air in the LZ being weird on this day, it does not excuse dropping a wing and breaking a wand.
Yeah dude, that was some pretty gnarly air you came down in. I think you did pretty well getting it down safely and snapping just one tip wand.
And I wouldn't really worry about the tip wands anyway.
Zack C - 2011/01/22 19:12:14 UTC

A couple of years ago at a Lookout Wills Wing Demo Days QA session with Steve and Mike, I asked what the benefits of curved wing tips were. Steve's response surprised me: "They look good." He said they didn't provide any aerodynamic benefit and they only put them on their gliders because people want them. Either he or Mike (don't remember) then went on to state that they put backup hang loops on their wings for the same reason. I was impressed by their candor, but disappointed that consumer demand could override sensible engineering even in the realm of aircraft design.
It's not like they actually DO anything. And they're only seventy-two bucks a pop. And I'm sure your friendly neighborhood Wills Wing dealership has a big stack of them right next to the downtubes bin. And those are just a hundred and two bucks a pop.

So you just keep landing like you're doing, just like it says in the simple instructions in your Wills Wing T2 owner's manual...
Once established on a straight final approach, with wings level and flying directly into the wind, you should fly the glider down to where the basetube is between three and six feet off the ground. At this altitude, let the control bar out just enough to "round out" so that your descent is arrested and your flight path parallels the ground. The remainder of your approach will consist of bleeding off excess speed while paralleling the ground and keeping the wings level and the nose pointed in your direction of flight until it is time to "flare" for landing.

Prior to the landing flare your body position should be generally upright, but slightly inclined forward, with your head and shoulders forward of your hips and your legs and feet trailing slightly behind. Many pilots make the mistake of trying to get too upright at this stage of the landing, which actually reduces your flare authority and makes it harder to land on your feet. Your hands should be at shoulder width and shoulder height on the uprights. You should be relaxed, with a light grip on the bar, and your weight should be fully supported in your harness and not at all by your arms. (If your harness does not allow you to hang in the proper semi-upright landing position "hands off," without supporting your weight on the control bar, you will have a lot more difficulty making good landings. Talk to your harness manufacturer or your dealer about getting your harness adjusted to allow you to hang properly in the landing position.) There are several options for when to make the transition from prone to this semi upright position.

Some pilots favor going upright and moving both hands to the downtubes while still at altitude prior to the start of the approach. Others transition at the start of the approach to a semi upright position with one hand on a downtube and one hand on the basetube, and complete the transition by moving the other hand to the downtube just a few seconds prior to flare. Still others fly with both hands on the basetube until established on final glide, and then transition one hand at a time to the downtubes prior to flare.

Whichever method you use, there are a few important principles to observe. The first is that you should not make any change in hand position unless you are flying at or very near trim speed. At speeds faster than trim, you will be holding the bar in pitch against substantial force, and if you let go to move your hand the glider will pitch up and roll towards your remaining hand. The second is that while moving either hand, you have no control over the glider. You should move only one hand at a time. Even so, if you can't make the transition in the position of each hand quickly and reliably, you should transition both hands while at altitude, before you start your approach. Otherwise, if you fail to make a quick transition, you could be out of control close to the ground, and suffer a turbulence-induced change in heading or attitude without sufficient time to recover. Many pilots make the mistake of trying to change position while flying fast and close to the ground, and experience a dangerous loss of control as a result. A third principle to observe is that if you are using a "pod" type harness, you should unzip and confirm that your legs are free to exit the harness at least 500 feet above the ground and before you start your approach. If there is any problem finding the zipper pull, or dealing with a stuck zipper, you don't want to have to try to fix that problem while also flying the approach.

Once established on a wings level short final, into the wind, body semi upright and with both hands on the downtubes, your final concern is the timing and execution of the landing flare. The goal is to arrive on the ground, on your feet, under control with the glider settling on your shoulders. If the wind is 15 mph or more, you will not really execute a flare at all; you will simply slow to minimum flying speed, put a foot down, and step onto the ground. In lighter winds, you will want to use some combination of a final nose up flare, and running out your landing, in order to finish the flight on your feet with the glider settling on your shoulders. The lighter the wind, the stronger should be both your flare and your run.

The traditional method of landing in light or no wind calls for a sharp, aggressive flare at precisely the correct moment. This technique works fine when done correctly, but it's not easy to get the timing just right. Flare too early and you will climb, and then fall with the nose pitching down. Flare too late and you won't get the nose up enough to stop your forward motion, and the glider may nose into the ground as you run into it from behind.

The flare timing process is made much easier by using a combination of a "crescendo flare" and a run out of the landing. As you bleed off speed on final, flying just above the ground, you are at first letting the control bar out towards its trim position. As the glider reaches trim speed, which will normally be one to three mph above stall speed, you begin to gently push the bar out to keep the glider from settling. At this point it is almost time to flare. As the glider enters the "mushing" range of angles of attack, it will begin to settle in spite of your continuing to ease the bar out. This should be happening well before your arms are significantly extended. At this point begin your flare by smoothly accelerating the rate at which you push out on the bar. At the same time, draw one leg forward, put a foot down, and start to run as hard as you can. This run should be very much like an aggressive take off run - your body should be leaning forward into the run and you should be driving with your legs. The difference here is that while you are leaning into your run and driving forward with your legs, your arms are extending fully from your shoulders, pushing out, and what feels like upwards, on the control bar in an accelerating, "crescendo" flare.

Done correctly, this type of flare / run combination will bring the glider quickly to a very nose high attitude, producing a great deal of drag and quickly arresting all of your forward motion. You will feel the glider pulling you from behind, resisting your attempt to run, and as you slow down the glider will settle gently on your shoulders. Even in no wind, you should not have to take more than a few steps. If your timing is a little early, and you feel the glider start to climb, simply stop pushing out and resume the flare when the glider again begins to settle. If your timing is a little late, your feet will touch down a little sooner, but as long as you're running and flaring at the same time, the glider will stay over your head or behind you.

Note: Pilots who have trouble with the flare, and with the glider nosing over during landing, usually do so because of one of the following problems:

a. Harness leg straps too long / hanging too low below the glider, and / or hands too low on the control bar. This reduces pitch authority and prevents an adequate flare.

b. Improper body position - pilot leaning back, (away from the anticipated hard landing), with feet extended in front. This moves the pilot's center of mass forward ahead of his shoulders, effectively shortening the pilot's arms and reducing flare authority. The proper position is with the pilot's body inclined forward, with the shoulders out ahead of the pilot's center of mass. Thinking about pushing "up" instead of "out" when flaring may help you to maintain the proper forward inclined body position.

c. Slowing too much prior to flare, so that your arms are too extended to allow enough flare amplitude.
...don't even THINK about cluttering your precious field of view with a pair of wheels or anything other than your instrument pod...
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
...and everybody will stay safe and happy.

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