You are NEVER hooked in.

[miguel]

¿Chris Valley clueless?

Put the cap on the bottle and call it a day.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15571
Pro/Tow release from base tube

Chris Valley - 2009/04/11 05:46:55 UTC
San Mateo

PVC T2

What is nice about Tad's illustrations and photographs is they directly relate to the PVC construction of my Wills Wing T2...

Did Wills Wing finally switch from PVC to 7075 aluminum on the new T2C?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=939
Weak link breaks?

Dan Tomlinson - 2005/08/31 00:33:01 UTC

Tad's post is difficult to read but I've seen his work. His release mechanism is elegant in its simplicity and effectiveness.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=233
AT releases

Hugh McElrath - 2005/03/05 17:02:56 UTC

Thanks, Tad. I was too green to fully appreciate your system when you showed it to me a couple of years ago. Now I'm more interested. Do I have to fabricate this myself from parts or are you in business?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3347
Tad's barrel release tested

Janni Papakrivos - 2008/06/30 15:35:44 UTC

Tad showed me the release system he installed in Hugh's glider. I was amazed at the quality and complexity of the system. Being able to tow and release without ever having to take your hands off the base tube is wonderful and much safer.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12587
weak links (here we go)

Patrick Halfhill - 2009/06/21 23:22:23 UTC

You and I met at the ECC a few years ago. We spent 45 minutes or more together going over your system. I saw it first hand. I was quite impressed with the quality of engineering and the time you spent on it.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?

Walt Conklin - 2009/05/03 16:19:44 UTC
Montana
Very nice engineering, Tad. I can see a lot of thought went into the systems and there is always room to "build a better mousetrap".

http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28697
Weak links why do we use them. in paragliding.

Steve Uzochukwu - 2009/12/09 18:53:09 UTC

Now it needs independent testing, unless you've sorted that. It looks very well engineered but complex.

Zack C - 2011/01/10 14:28:40 UTC

When I first saw your release years ago on the Oz Report forum my impression was the same as most people's. I didn't know what the pictures were showing but it looked way more complicated than it needed to be. After seeing the problems that even the best releases on the market have and learning more about your release, however, I understand why you made it the way you did and the advantages it provides.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=745
Scooter Tow Crash

Bill Cummings - 2011/08/06 20:59:36 UTC

I've spent a good bit of time studying Tad's links, some of which can be found on:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=727
Input from Tad please.

I've seen a lot of towing ideas and equipment over my 33 years of towing hang gliders and being towed in hang gliders.

The procedures and equipment that Tad advocates, to me, look to be the best.

Anyone that has a sharp eye for safety will take some time to study his posts.

Yeah. Fuck him.

[Tad Eareckson]

P.S. For the benefit of anyone who doesn't understand glider suspension and how it relates to control and control effort...

- You make a glider go up, down, left, right by pushing, pulling yourself fore, aft, left, right.

- Those actions all require muscle.

- Because you're swinging from the glider's suspension point you're moving through an arc.

- Thus when you exert a control input a lot of the muscle you're using is being wasted to lift yourself.

- And the shorter the suspension the less efficient the use of muscle. (The taller the swing the easier it is to push the kid over a ten foot ground track and the less will be his altitude gains at the ends of the track. (Tarzan also understood this and thus always went for the longer vines. (And this is also why gibbons have really long arms.)))

- In the early Eighties French Connections (Jean-Louis Darlet) and speed rails were installed on keels to flatten arcs and reduce muscle requirement.

- Then Steve Pearson and Bob Trampenau independently figured out that they could achieve the same effect a lot simpler, cleaner, lighter, cheaper by suspending the pilot from a point above keel - and we already had kingposts up there anyway.

- For straight pitch control you don't really need a spreader to keep the webbing out of contact with the keel except to keep it from rubbing - which you really should.

- But for roll control without a spreader you totally eliminate the advantage of elevated suspension. When the high side webbing is in contact with the keel you're effectively hanging from the keel when you wanna turn.

- Here's what it says in the 1987/05/06 Wills Wing Sport owner's manual:

Check that the spreader bar is properly positioned just below the keel, (it will have been pulled down away from the keel during breakdown) and that it is aligned horizontally.

- That was close to twenty-five freakin' years ago.

- See Chris:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doe_sNB1wbg


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3895/14743990195_8b8c2933c2_o.png
19-13501

- He doesn't have the spreader just below the keel to enhance his roll control effort, he has it just above the carabiner to keep the top of the carabiner from being crushed.

- He's neutralizing about eighteen years worth of elevated suspension innovation.

- Whenever I see a spreader more than an inch below the keel I know I'm looking at someone too stupid to read the fuckin' manual and understand how his fuckin' plane works. I'm looking at a flyer - not a pilot.

- And I really don't need useless Jack Show assholes like that making stupid, snide comments about my - or anybody else's - technological and engineering developments.

Any comments, miguel? Or are you perfectly OK with that kind of behavior?

[miguel]

Any comments, miguel? Or are you perfectly OK with that kind of behavior?

Nope. I did not follow the pvc T2 comments. I am guessing you took insult from it.

I did not know about the purpose of spreader bars. Now I know. Thanks

Flying in 30+ mph air? That borders on clueless. Once was enough for me. The lift band extended way beyond the flying site. Corkscrews did not work to loose altitude. The lightbulb finally lit and I flew away from the flying site and came back under the lift band for an uneventful landing.

[Tad Eareckson]

Nope.

I'm guessing that's a response to:

Any comments, miguel?

and not:

Or are you perfectly OK with that kind of behavior?

I did not follow the pvc T2 comments.

I spend about a third of my life developing, refining, documenting, the aerotow release system that Steve Pearson could've/should've developed and offered as a hundred and fifty dollar option on every glider Wills Wing's produced over the past twenty years.

Then I spend another third of my life...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=607
Understanding Tow Releases

Warren Narron - 2011/02/19 06:08:08 UTC

The photography is excellent, professional even...

...photographing the crap out of the system and going temporarily partially blind (literally) Photoshopping everything down to the last pixel (literally) so that somebody WITH a brain - like Antoine - could duplicate the technology with a minimal amount of trouble - even if I get hit by a truck.

The primary system is built into and illustrated on a model constructed of PVC tubing:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318603266/


so somebody WITH a brain can understand the workings and see the detail a zillion times better than he could on the actual glider.

(Please note that Wills Wing doesn't use photographs of the actual glider EITHER to show people with brains how their T2 is put together - they use schematics 'cause they can do the job a lot better and more effectively that way.)

But for every Antoine out there there's at least a few hundred smartass stupid air jocks - who'll never make a contribution to hang gliding more substantial and lasting than helping wire a few people off the ramp - who feel qualified to comment on engineering when they can't even put their own gliders together properly.

Well, none of that material was ever intended to be of any direct use to hundreds of smartass stupid air jocks like Chris.

I am guessing you took insult from it.

Ya think?

Let's forget this is Tad we're talking about and go with some assumptions...
- Tom:
--- sees an engineering problem that's crashing lotsa gliders, injuring a good many pilots, and killing a few pilots
-- works his ass off to engineer a solution
-- comes up with a solution that totally eliminates the problem and is lighter, cleaner, cheaper to boot
-- tries to just give the solution to anyone who wants it and volunteers to help with the implementation
- Chris just pisses all over Tom and his solution 'cause he feels like it.
- So gliders continue to crash and pilots continue to get hurt and killed - needlessly.

---

- Ya guess Tom would take insult?
- Shouldn't:
-- YOU be taking insult?
-- EVERY RESPONSIBLE MEMBER OF THE FLYING COMMUNITY be taking insult from assholes like that - and saying something about it?

And that is PRECISELY the situation we have here - and the evidence to support that statement is OVERWHELMING.

I did not know about the purpose of spreader bars.

- Look around ANY setup area, staging area, or ramp. Do you think ANYBODY does?

- Look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J00H24dkbJw


30619

again. After you get over the laughs again (it's been taking me a couple of minutes)...

- That's where he's been setting his spreader for as long as he's been flying gliders with spreaders.

- And none of the Ellenville crowd has noticed anything wrong.

- And nobody's ever said anything while he's done any of his idiot hang checks - during which they're SUPPOSED to be focusing on finding problems with the suspension.

- And he's done a hang check (in the setup area or behind the ramp) for EVERY FLIGHT of his hang gliding career (so he's been able to assume that he's hooked in on the ramp a couple of minutes later for EVERY FLIGHT of his hang gliding career).

Now I know.

- Great! My morning wasn't a total waste of time. (Seriously.)

- So how does the fact that you didn't know before reflect on your instructor(s) and/or observer(s) (assuming you've been rated for something since the advent of kingpost suspension), dealer, and local flying community?

Thanks

- You're more than welcome.
- You REALLY wanna thank me?
-- Clue in other people in the setup area and on the ramp.
-- Also tell THEM to clue in other people in the setup area and on the ramp.
-- Clue in Chris. Then wait two years and tell him who clued you in.

This isn't a particularly BFD but neither Chris's nor Kermit's glider is being flown in the configuration for which it was certified - and sometimes when the shit hits the fan a fraction of a second and/or a few inches can make a BIG difference in how the rest of the day goes.

[Tad Eareckson]

Here's a little more of why Chris Valley is solidly on my You-Can-Go-Fuck-Yourself list...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12403
weak link table

(Currently buried at the very bottom of Jack Show Page 166 with 33 posts and 3978 hits.)

Tad Eareckson - 2009/06/09 17:30:31 UTC

On the off chance that hang gliding will EVER figure out what a weak link is...

I've prepared a table indicating the optimum Tost weak link for every model and size glider for which I could find specs online and posted it at:

http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/index.html

Works like this...

1. I have gliders with weights and recommended hook-in ranges. Primary arrangement is alphabetically by manufacturer and secondarily roughly in order of introduction date and/or glider performance from low to high. Sizes within a particular model are listed from low to high.

2. I total the glider and max hook-in weights.

3. I use 1.4 Gs for max operating weight - the middle of the FAA range for allowable sailplane weak link ratings, 0.8 to 2.0 - as the target.

4. I list a range of five available Tost weak links for each glider model and size.

5. The starting point of the range must put the max loaded glider at a minimum of 0.7 Gs.

6. The weak link which puts the glider as close as possible to 1.4 Gs is coded green. In the odd instance in which a glider is centered between two weak links both are coded green. The math has worked out so far that all targets fall in Columns K and/or L.

In the US it is illegal to aerotow with a weak link exceeding 2.0 Gs and, with any luck, it will someday also be illegal to go below 1.0.

I would GREATLY appreciate help in the following areas...

1. Check my figures for errors. I was as careful as possible entering data in the spreadsheet cells but I'm human. So, it seems, are some of the manufacturers 'cause I found inconsistencies in their own specs and manuals, though nothing significant with respect to the tables.

2. I'd be delighted to get data for gliders for which I have been unable obtain manufactures' specs. Wills Wing has an excellent archive of old manuals but they're pretty much the exception.

A PDF manual would be ideal.

Failing that, figures from something gathering dust on the shelf. Empty weight, min and max hook-in weights, and introduction date would be nice. Empty and max hook-in weights would be bare bones. Best to PM me so's I can get blind corroborations from multiple sources.

3. If you're fed up with weak links that blow every time you get waked by a Chimney Swift, start using these things - or at least something better than the pathetic little loop of fishing line that has lodged itself in our sport like a malignant tumor. You'll be doing your flight park, yourself, your downtubes, and the people in line behind you a HUGE favor.

Tost and US distributor:

http://www.tost.de
http://www.wingsandwheels.com

Thanks,
Tad

2009/06/10 15:28:29 - 3 thumbs up - Scott C. Wise
2009/06/11 09:21:17 - 3 thumbs up - ian9toes
2009/06/12 00:47:45 - NA ---------- Fred Bickford
2009/06/10 13:30:15 - Sink This! -- Chris Valley
2009/06/10 14:46:03 - Sink This! -- xlq

Tad Eareckson - 2009/06/10 12:26:04

A little PS stuff...

I make weak links based upon stitching two elements together and refer to them as "Shear Links". Check them out at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/?details=1

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/sets/72057594141352219/detail
AT Release Components set

towards the end of the series.

Pros and cons...

The tolerances - on the heavier stuff anyway - aren't as good as Tost but they're available in finer increments so, save for the gliders that happen to fall right on the Tost marks, they tend to put one a little closer where one wants to be anyway.

Tost advises replacing inserts every couple hundred tows to guard against metal fatigue but I suspect you don't really need to.

The Shear Links do not degrade with use. They either blow at pretty close to their ratings or, below, don't.

The Tost weak link assembly is built for sailplane tow tensions of up to a bit over a ton and packs a LOT more metal than we could ever dream of needing.

The analogous Shear Link mass is pretty negligible by way of comparison but I don't know how well one installed at the back end of the tow line will hold up to dragging. Not as well is a real safe bet.

I tow two point and incorporate Shear Links at both ends of my primary bridle. It's a real good way to do things but building such a "Ribbon Bridle" is an extremely tedious undertaking which will kill every bit of a very long day and leave one half blind for a while thereafter.

If one tows one point however, the "Bridle Link" (combined bridle and weak link) is real cheap and easy to punch out.

2009/06/10 14:50:29 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Scott C. Wise
2009/06/10 13:30:32 - Sink This! -- Chris Valley

I just googled:

"weak links" glider

and that Jack Show thread showed up fifth from the top. (And my stuff also showed up in the Six and Eight positions on the first page.)

But, nevertheless, the "Sink This!" assholes managed to Sink This issue effectively enough so that nothing significant ever happened. And so one-size-fits-all Davis Links continue to rule the skies and...

http://www.kitestrings.org/topic42.html

...two Saturdays ago Larry's buddy goes for a little scooter hop in nothing conditions on a Falcon 3 and - after a whopping seven seconds of experiencing the miracle of human foot launched flight - ends up with two breaks in his downtubes and three in his upper right arm.

So Chris... Go fuck yourself and stay the hell far far away from any discussions requiring IQs in the mid double digit range.

[Zack C]

Apologies for being out for a while...this post is a response to this post.

In a bad tow situation - foot, dolly, platform - the pilot ALWAYS comes down head first and is usually killed.

When I said 'bad situation', I didn't mean something usually fatal. If things start to go to hell I plan to release before they actually do, resulting in a situation where, if I'm unzipped, I can land on my feet.

No, but I'm not crazy about coming down prone on pavement.

...
2. Platform is a nonissue.

Why? If I platform launch and immediately get misaligned I may choose to abort rather than risk the situation escalating to a low-level lockout. My options at Hearne may then be to either land on pavement or in eight inch grass.

Still not sure how I feel about launching zipped. I don't think I've ever had to release near the ground in practice. I did launch zipped last weekend but it was with a tandem-esque wheel kit on a borrowed glider so it doesn't really count. I'll try it some more though cuz I hate zipping enough...

Thanks for sharing your experience with Betty. I was planning to go with High Energy as they're pretty much the only people still making cocoons, but you guys are making me nervous. We've had several locals purchase them without issue at any rate. Wills is working with Ryan Voight on a new cocoon model...I may wait on that...

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

Apologies for being out for a while...

Was worried that you might have crashed and burned after your name drifted way back on the LAST ACTIVE ranking last month. Googled you and a post about you being scheduled for surgery came right to the top. Took me several minutes to note that it was three years old.

If things start to go to hell I plan to release before they actually do...

- Everybody always plans to, virtually nobody ever does.

- When things start going to hell it's almost always a really bad idea to come off tow anyway.

...resulting in a situation where, if I'm unzipped, I can land on my feet.

- If you come off tow in a bad situation it's almost always a bad idea to try to land on your feet.

- Even if you have time.

- Which you won't.

If I platform launch and immediately get misaligned I may choose to abort rather than risk the situation escalating to a low-level lockout.

- If you platform launch and immediately get misaligned choosing to abort...

British Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association Technical Manual - 2003/04

On tow the Pilot in Command must have his hand actually on the release at all times. 'Near' the release is not close enough! When you have two hands completely full of locked-out glider, taking one off to go looking for the release guarantees that your situation is going to get worse before it gets better.

...is - given the limitations of available equipment - very likely to CAUSE the situation to escalate to a low-level lockout.

- Notice that when this guy:

http://vimeo.com/17743952

password - red
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/435/19224482318_2da3f48afe_o.png


foot launches and immediately gets misaligned (which he wouldn't have had he started on a platform or dolly) the right choice is NOT to abort rather than risk the situation escalating to a low-level lockout. If he aborts the situation's gonna escalate to a nasty ground loop.

- And if his driver makes a good decision in the interest of his safety or his weak link increases the safety of the tow operation he's NOT gonna be landing on his feet or worried about doing so. He's gonna be stuffed and full left and staying that way all the way in.

I don't think I've ever had to release near the ground in practice.

Have you ever even SEEN anyone who had to release near the ground?

In REAL aviation you don't see a lot of planes aborting flights once they've started rolling down the runway. And that's a good thing 'cause a lot of those situations don't have survivable options.

Tows are virtually never aborted or in need of being after about the first day of scooter tow lessons. Davis Links are about the only reason you see gliders coming down before getting to regular scheduled altitude.

Prediction...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC

I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up. You're not the only one on the line. I didn't ask to be a test pilot. I can live with your inconvenience.

If competition pilots were allowed to use 1.5 G weak links instead of being forced to fly Davis Links by Davis and the fleet of tug driver morons we have at our disposal you'd start seeing the ones who insist on towing with even doubled up weak links (or no weak links) launching zipped up.

Also... I think the risk of having a pod zipped going up is totally dwarfed by the risk of having one's hands on the downtubes coming down - regardless of how much time elapses between the two events.

We've had several locals purchase them without issue at any rate.

I think that's probably just about always the case. That first harness was fine laterally - but I don't know what the hell she was thinking when she did the length.

Wills is working with Ryan Voight on a new cocoon model...

Good choice. They're also big fans of his instant hands free release. I can hardly wait to see the miracle unfold.

- You're thinking about getting a cocoon 'cause of zipping and unzipping issues associated with the pod.
- The vast majority of your flying is towing - all of it dolly or platform launched - especially since Packsaddle became history.
- You're gonna:
-- pay a significant drag penalty with a cocoon - after you've given somebody a credit card number
-- get a lot wider safety margin for a lot smaller drag penalty and fewer bucks by going with a bigger pair of wheels

P.S. Wow, how'd we get all the way over here on this thread?

[Zack C]

If things start to go to hell I plan to release before they actually do...

- Everybody always plans to, virtually nobody ever does.

I disagree. Take the T2 flight I had where I started to PIO. I didn't wait long to make the decision to release. I wouldn't have taken any longer if that had happened near the ground. (And before you tell me releasing would have been the wrong decision, consider Holly Korzilius.)

'Near the ground' is also relative. I brought this topic up within the context of having time to unzip before landing. Terry from Toronto had a lockout at 300 feet...that's low enough for unzipping to be an issue.

I don't think I've ever had to release near the ground in practice.

Now that I think about it, I can recall two times when I did release near the ground, both when I was a relatively inexperienced H2 at Lookout. In the first I shot up above the tug shortly after becoming airborne (and I'm pretty sure before the tug got off the ground), presumably due to a thermal, and I could not pull in enough to get down so I released and landed on my feet straight ahead without issue.

The other time the cart rolled to the side and when I got into the air I was poorly aligned and immediately released. I would not have released today, however. I think I landed on wheels.

Have you ever even SEEN anyone who had to release near the ground?

Well, you just posted this...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16249
Mouth Release . . . Here we go again

Craig Stanley - 2009/06/02 01:24:59 UTC

Yesterday I was hit with a quarter side/tailwind off the cart. I got really high and to the left of the tug. I was pulling in and turning back to the right to get in line with the tug, but the tug was unable to climb fast enough and I could not dive fast enough. By just opening my mouth, I was free of the tug. I did not have to take my hands off the bar and let the glider get in a worse AoA or turn.

Why else would you need a release you didn't have to take a hand off the bar to use?

If competition pilots were allowed to use 1.5 G weak links instead of being forced to fly Davis Links by Davis and the fleet of tug driver morons we have at our disposal you'd start seeing the ones who insist on towing with even doubled up weak links (or no weak links) launching zipped up.

I've attended one competition. Seemed like all the experienced comp pilots (including Davis if I remember correctly) were launching with one foot out of the harness. I couldn't think of anything else they'd be worried about besides a weak link break. Guess they've been conditioned...

Good choice. They're also big fans of his instant hands free release.

To my knowledge they've never said anything about what an appropriate weak link strength is or that intentionally breaking a weak link is a good idea. I also suspect Ryan knows a lot more about cocoons than he does about towing. =)

The vast majority of your flying is towing - all of it dolly or platform launched - especially since Packsaddle became history.

I probably spend most of my vacation time flying mountains. Packsaddle may not be permanent. And then there's Quintana.

You're gonna get a lot wider safety margin for a lot smaller drag penalty and fewer bucks by going with a bigger pair of wheels.

Can't argue with you there, but the wheels I have are sooo convenient...

P.S. Wow, how'd we get all the way over here on this thread?

It started with you talking about running a string from the carabiner to one's mouth. Oh, regarding that...I've found that if a string from the carabiner can reach your mouth when you're hooked in, it can reach your mouth when you're not hooked in, so I don't think that'll work, unless I'm not following you.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

Take the T2 flight I had where I started to PIO.

- On a hot glider you'd never flown before.

- At twelve hundred feet.

- After getting out of sync with the tug in the kind of vertical air movement you're extremely unlikely to encounter at a critical altitude.

- And even if it does happen early in the launch you can use a wider angle lens to give yourself more clearance.

- Oscillations aren't all that time critical. By definition you're coming back about half the time.

- And you have control - too much in fact.

- And your pitch trim is fairly reasonable.

- A lockout's only going one way and it can go so fast your first indication that something's wrong is a mostly vertical horizon and confusion about why it looks that way.

(And before you tell me releasing would have been the wrong decision, consider Holly Korzilius.)

- Holly had plenty of time to release - but didn't because of the shitrigged junk she was using - or, actually, unable to use.

- Holly had no natural feel for a glider.

- Tex had plenty of time to release her - but waited until the worst possible instant.

- Holly was in good shape until after Tex released her - at the worst possible instant.

- Holly's instructor...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1166
Thoughts on responsibility...

Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/05 14:10:56 UTC

We visited Steve Wendt yesterday, who was visibly choked up over Bill's death. For Steve, it all comes down to one thing: you've got to hook in. Period.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=20597
Noobie

Sam Kellner - 2011/01/24 12:49:32 UTC

Welcome to the sport AcTiOn.

Good luck. Blue Sky is among the best.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?

Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.

...is a total moron. That's another problem you don't have.

- Holly's EXCELLENT evidence in support of this statement:

Tad Eareckson - 2012/02/13 15:27:45 UTC

In a bad tow situation - foot, dolly, platform - the pilot ALWAYS comes down head first and is usually killed. It makes absolutely no difference if his feet are in or out of a cocoon or pod.

She came down face first and was about half killed but if she had thought about the downtubes or her feet for a nanosecond she'd have been fully killed.

I'm meaning lockout here. In an oscillation you can afford to take a hand off when the glider's coming back (not that you'll want to, though).

Terry from Toronto had a lockout at 300 feet...that's low enough for unzipping to be an issue.

And high enough so that it almost certainly won't matter either way.

Now that I think about it, I can recall two times when I did release near the ground, both when I was a relatively inexperienced H2 at Lookout.

- Ancient history.
- The Mother of All Happy Acres Putting Greens.
- Christian Thoreson's old st;mping ground. Well, rolling ground actually.

...so I released and landed on my feet straight ahead without issue.

And if you'd been zipped up and stayed prone the worst that would've likely happened would have been...?

I think I landed on wheels.

And that missed being your most consequential landing to date by a fairly wide margin.

Well, you just posted this...

That's EXACTLY what Steve and I developed all this equipment for.

Why else would you need a release you didn't have to take a hand off the bar to use?

- You ALWAYS want to HAVE it. You don't EVER want to NEED it.

- And the vast majority of people won't. If they did the vast majority of people would be dead.

- And Craig's not locking out either. He's not even particularly control compromised - he's just out of position. He's got a wider safety margin with his four-string but he'd still be able to get a relight in a couple of minutes if all he had had was a Bailey "release".

Seemed like all the experienced comp pilots (including Davis if I remember correctly) were launching with one foot out of the harness.

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

Guess they've been conditioned...

Yep.

To my knowledge they've never said anything about what an appropriate weak link strength is or that intentionally breaking a weak link is a good idea.

http://www.willswing.com/learn/scooterTow/#video

Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC

I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself (and maybe the people at Wills Wing).

(Nope.)

I also suspect Ryan knows a lot more about cocoons than he does about towing.

God I hope so. Better stay low for a while anyway, nothing over fifty feet - just in case.

...but the wheels I have are sooo convenient...

The bigger they are the more they behave like wheels on less than ideal surfaces and the less they behave like basetube. We're damn near always dealing with tradeoffs in this game.

It started with you talking about running a string...

Yeah, I know. Rhetorical question.

I've found that if a string from the carabiner can reach your mouth when you're hooked in, it can reach your mouth when you're not hooked in...

Unless you hook the carabiner to an aerotow loop or something, how?

...so I don't think that'll work, unless I'm not following you.

Even if it does, so what?

You're NEVER just gonna grab the end of the string and stick it between your teeth 'cause you KNOW...

Rob Kells - 2005/12

Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked...

...that doing so is a really good way to get yourself killed.

- You're ALWAYS - just before picking up the glider - gonna turn and grab the string from its connection at the engaged carabiner - at which time you're gonna verify a proper engagement - and run the string through your hand all the way to its free end before putting it in your teeth.

- If you lose the string:

-- you're gonna put the glider back down and do it again.

-- while you're talking to your wire crew - fuck it. You have the wind and/or people to float the glider until you feel your suspension go tight and you didn't need the string in the first place.

- Unless you wanna condition yourself to the string - which wouldn't be a bad idea.

Even an asshole such as Yours Truly - who launches with a luff line hooked under a batten tip about every third flight - could handle that level of discipline.

Just thought of a really good title for the concept:

Dumbo's Magic Feather

You don't got that feather securely wrapped in your trunk, you don't fly.