landing

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

My very first flight on a hang glider - a Kitty Hawk Trainer - was a wheel landing.

But immediately after that I was brainwashed and shot for foot landings the rest of my career unless I:
- got trapped in my pod;
- got low and ran out of steam; or
- encountered some situation in which it would've been even more stupid and dangerous than usual to try to put it on my feet.

It wasn't until my career was pretty much over that I was deciding that doing standup landings was not only dangerous but setting a poor example for other flyers.

So I don't have a lot of experience wheel landing but they're brain dead easy. If you can do a light air standup landing one out of five times you can do a wheel landing with a near lethal Blood Alcohol Content and in near total darkness.

If I were gonna do things over I'd modify my harness for skidding before I'd start wheel landing.

And with a little smooth air straight in your face standup landings are also brain dead easy and I'd continue doing them in those circumstances.

On a reasonable surface there's nothing you need to know or do differently. Just fly the glider down to a skim with the same reserve of speed you'd use of a foot landing, ease out to level out at a few inches, and keep the glider level. Volumes have been written on flare timing and keying in on the nanosecond that the glider starts to drop. Fly the damn thing the same way but instead of throwing the bar over your head at that nanosecond just smoothly push the bar out in front of you and finish the stall. I had tons of Kitty Hawk students instinctively and perfectly execute these landings on their first flights.

7:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SJu09S-Y0

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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7369/13962618245_163eb65caa_o.png
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9-72800-c

The only minor problem you'll have is overcoming all the hardwiring you've got screaming at you to rotate upright and go to the downtubes.

At a 1994 instructor certification clinic Mike Robertson - who's a wheel lander and a big advocate of wheel landing and has a harness that looks like crap - made us all wheel land a Saber 208 trainer at the Ellenville training hill. Our reactions were all "This feels really weird... Wow! That was really fun!!!"

P.S. Aren't those pneumatic wheels eight inchers?
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

Thanks. Hope I get to go and I hope there a lots of folks watching my first wheel landing.

The wheels I have are 4.5 inch diameter with 10 inch diameter tires mounted.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare. The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe two seconds or fifty feet, but I can't initiate pitch unless the wings are level and the glider isn't yawed (you can see the result in the landing video, I start thinking about avoiding Joe, the glider yaws almost imperceptibly and I drop a wing). Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach. I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up. I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

My other comment is that I like to make a long low final. I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground, I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient and I'm only arresting forward motion.
01. For everything we, as pilots, need to do for any given set of circumstances there is ONE best way to do it.

02. That way does not vary with respect to skill level in hang gliding any more than it does in REAL aviation.
Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...
03. The safest, easiest, most consistent, most effective, best way to land a hang glider in a safe environment and in almost all the environments in which we land them is a WHEEL LANDING.

7:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SJu09S-Y0

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There is no sane case to be made to the contrary.

04. The argument that you can do ANYTHING - other than whipstalling, breaking arms and necks, and dislocating shoulders - better from the downtubes than you can from the basetube is one hundred percent pure unadulterated bullshit.

05. IF we need or want to foot land - what Steve Pearson describes is EXACTLY the procedure for ANYONE - first day student or hot XC comp pilot - to follow.

06. Minus the turns into the approach there is NOTHING that Steve Pearson does on a landing that's so demanding that a first day student can't pull off just as well. I've taught many a first day dune student to do EXACTLY what Steve does.

07. What Steve says and does is to stay on the basetube until the end of a long skim, wait until the glider's at trim, transition to the downtubes one hand at a time a couple of seconds before touchdown, and either:
- flare and stop the glider on the feet; or
- belly in and not worry about it.

08. Whenever we're asked to watch the skygods doing things right...

1:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8oVEo8ybA

http://vimeo.com/39385390

Steve Pearson Landing
http://vimeo.com/36062225

T2 Landing 2-1-2012

...what we're ALWAYS seeing is what Steve's describing - which is a prone, hands-on-the-basetube wheel landing - with a standup landing swapped in three or four seconds from touchdown.

09. The powers that control hang gliding start the student off Day 1, Flight 1 gearing the bulk of the training to a dangerous, demanding, standup landing that only the tiniest fraction of students will ever find the least bit useful, is a thousand times more likely to get him crashed, hurt, or killed than prevent him from crashing, being hurt, or being killed, and is so difficult that no one can ever pull them off reliably over the long run.

10. The reason the powers that control hang gliding start the student off Day 1, Flight 1 gearing the bulk of the training to a dangerous, demanding standup landing is because it can be used to:
- multiply the time the student is restricted to the training environment by a factor of ten;
- increase the student's dependency on the instructors and flight schools by a factor of ten; and
- multiply the sale of replacement downtubes by a factor of fifty.

11. After all of the students are hardwired to stay safe on approach by rotating upright and going to the downtubes early...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkElZMhpmp0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaTu5Y4WBdY

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...only the tiniest fraction of them will use wheel landings or wheel landings ending with standup swap-ins - à la Steve Pearson and Dave Seib.

12. And that keeps the sales of replacement tubing up at healthy levels.

13. Until you factor in all the people who are leaving the sport voluntarily...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26892
What is the point of hang gliding instruction?
Bill Jacques - 2012/03/09 01:53:20 UTC

The main reason why I quit - never felt really secure regarding landing without injury.
And that was after FIVE YEARS of flying.
...and, a couple hundred times more frequently...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM


...because they felt overly secure regarding landing without injury.

14. But, unfortunately, the powers that control hang gliding are totally incapable of ever stepping back and looking at the big long run picture.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare. The flare window is really long on a T2, maybe two seconds or fifty feet, but I can't initiate pitch unless the wings are level and the glider isn't yawed (you can see the result in the landing video, I start thinking about avoiding Joe, the glider yaws almost imperceptibly and I drop a wing). Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach. I always have plenty of pitch authority and don't grip the downtubes because it only takes a light push to get the nose up. I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

My other comment is that I like to make a long low final. I can flare more aggressively from close to the ground, I don't have to worry about mushing through a gradient and I'm only arresting forward motion.
http://vimeo.com/39385390

Steve Pearson Landing
http://vimeo.com/36062225

T2 Landing 2-1-2012
I wouldn't presume to teach others how to land but for me the challenge is having precise control of the glider before flare.
For what people is having is having precise control of the glider before flare unimportant?
Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off or if I have to maneuver late on approach.
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
So...
- Smooth or dead air can become dangerous if the LZ breaks off.
- Even if the air is smooth or dead and stays that way it's dangerous to be on the downtubes if you hafta maneuver to avoid another glider, you suddenly discover some powerlines in a bad place, or even if you just hafta do some hard turns on approach to get into a field safely.
- Generally speaking, it's a really crappy idea to have your hands anywhere but on the basetube until a couple of seconds before touchdown at the earliest.
Do I have everything about right so far?
Wills Wing - 2007/02
Landing the T2
Prior to the landing flare your body position should be generally upright, but slightly inclined forward, with your head and shoulders forward of your hips and your legs and feet trailing slightly behind. Many pilots make the mistake of trying to get too upright at this stage of the landing, which actually reduces your flare authority and makes it harder to land on your feet.
...and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
How important is it to land on your feet?
Your hands should be at shoulder width and shoulder height on the uprights.
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
Can you safely control the glider with your hands at shoulder height on the uprights? Is there any possibility of getting turned downwind?
There are several options for when to make the transition from prone to this semi upright position.

Some pilots favor going upright and moving both hands to the downtubes while still at altitude prior to the start of the approach.
Haven't we already established that that's unacceptably dangerous?
You should move only one hand at a time. Even so, if you can't make the transition in the position of each hand quickly and reliably, you should transition both hands while at altitude, before you start your approach.
Haven't we already established that that's unacceptably dangerous?
Otherwise, if you fail to make a quick transition, you could be out of control close to the ground, and suffer a turbulence-induced change in heading or attitude without sufficient time to recover.
Landing straight is easy in smooth or dead air but sometimes requires every bit of control authority that I can manage if the LZ is breaking off... ...and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
Why not just stay on the basetube and belly in? Isn't that the safest option?
A third principle to observe is that if you are using a "pod" type harness, you should unzip and confirm that your legs are free to exit the harness at least 500 feet above the ground and before you start your approach. If there is any problem finding the zipper pull, or dealing with a stuck zipper, you don't want to have to try to fix that problem while also flying the approach.
...and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube...
Why is it such a big fucking deal to come in with a stuck pod?
Once established on a wings level short final, into the wind, body semi upright and with both hands on the downtubes, your final concern is the timing and execution of the landing flare.
Who says it's my final concern? That's one of the very least of my concerns.
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
My priorities are not to get turned downwind, break arms, dislocate shoulders, or break or bend downtubes. I can best do that by staying prone with my hands on the basetube every inch of the way down and rolling in on the wheels. Other options include bellying in without wheels or transitioning at the last instant and popping a flare - fully successfully or not.
The goal is to arrive on the ground, on your feet, under control with the glider settling on your shoulders.
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-C. Special Skills attainable by Intermediate and above.

03. Restricted Landing Field (RLF):

Demonstrates a landing using a downwind leg, base leg and a final leg approach where the entire base leg, final and landing occur within a 300' square.
Everybody got that? For a Hang Three, Four, or Five a restricted landing field is a MINIMUM of three hundred feet in upwind length.
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
23. Addendum 1 - Optional Landing Task
Summary...
For a Hang Two, Three, or Four - hit a two hundred by forty foot runway lined up with the wind a couple of times.
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc.
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
09. Advanced Hang Gliding Rating (H-4)
-B. Required Witnessed Tasks

f. All landings must be safe, smooth, on the feet and in control.

h. Demonstrate three consecutive landings within 25' of a target (or optional landing task - see Addendum 1 - Optional Landing Task) after a flight which requires turns on approach. In smooth conditions, the spot location should be changed by the Observer, for each of the three flights. Flights should be a minimum of one minute and 200' AGL.
1. So a CRITICAL SKILL for a Hang Four is to be able to consistently hit a spot - on his feet and in control - of a radius well under a wingspan.
2. UNLESS... His Hallowed USHGA Observer or Instructor feels like allowing him to hit a two hundred by forty foot runway a couple of times on his feet OR...
In a landing that is pre-designated to be made on wheels...
...HIS WHEELS. Then being able to nail a twenty-five foot standup spot three times in a row ISN'T a critical skill for a Four.
USHPA - 2008/03

Addendum 1 - Optional Landing Task

At the discretion of the Observer or Instructor and not the pilot, this task may be substituted for the "three spot landings in a row" task. The administration of the task is as follows...
USHPA - 2011/05

Addendum 1 - Optional Landing Task

At the discretion of the Observer or Instructor and not the pilot, this task may be substituted for the "three spot landings in a row" task. The optional landing task must only be used when the spot landing task is not practical or potentially dangerous. The administration of the task is as follows...
So if you add all this together...
What these USHGA shits - in their never-ending quest to fuck over the pilot as much as possible - is admit what everyone and his dog has known since the days when the hot ships had four to one glide ratios...
Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21088
What you wish you'd known then?
Doug Doerfler - 2011/03/02 05:24:44 UTC

Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.
That standup landings, spot landings, and standup spot landings are TOTALLY UNNECESSARY and DANGEROUS elements of hang gliding training. (But we're probably gonna make you do them anyway 'cause we CAN.)
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

Tad,

My Falcon has a ton of pitch pressure. I've been thinking about lowering the reflex bridle a bit, say ¼ inch at a time. Would doing this reduce pitch pressure?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I don't think it will have any effect whatsoever until you get up to some pretty high speeds.

There should be a bit of slack in the bridle lines anyway at normal speeds and you can check how much by circling and watching the shadow of the reflex bridle on your sail.

I think the pressure you're feeling is mostly due to twist and the best two things you can do about it are:
- move your hang point forward;
- buy a U2 and pull the VG on.

Note that there's a real problem with all hang gliders which rely on reflex bridles for dive recovery.

Sails shrink over time and stainless steel reflex cables don't. So your glider can become dangerously divergent if you don't keep an eye on things.

This was undoubtedly a big factor in what got Jeremiah Thompson and Arlan Birkett killed (2005/09/03) after the front end weak link blew at a couple hundred feet.

Although it's a necessary job, I'm not having much fun beating up on Wills Wing and Mike Meier right now 'cause he may have saved my life on this issue. Wills Wing had published an advisory in the magazine on the problem. I was on the phone with Mike and it came out that I hadn't acted on it. Mike was pretty pissed off and I was pretty embarrassed.

When I flew it at Currituck at the 1999/05 Kitty Hawk competition and checked the adjustment I was horrified. Looked like those wires were bowing back three feet behind my glider. I ended up making my own reflex bridle with 205 Dacron leechline (which is what was on my first glider - a Comet 165) 'cause it's a lot easier to adjust leechline than cable and that worked out well.

There's stuff about reflex bridle adjustment in Falcon owners' manuals and on Wills Wing's website but I think that if you adjust it anywhere the direction will probably hafta be up.

So do we get to hear about any landings from Sunday?
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

Glad I asked. I thought 100 percent of the pitch pressure was caused by the up elevator effect of the reflex bridle. So I didn't see any reason to set up my glider and take the measurements (thinking with all this pitch pressure the bridle is obviously doing its job). I should have just read the manual and saved myself a little embarrassment.

If I had done my first wheel landing, other than witnesses, you would have been first to know.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Don't do your first wheels landing just for the sake of doing a wheels landing. If you have some air there's not much reason not to just float it down and put a foot down.

Wait until the air is light and/or switchy and all the hotshots are bonking and bending stuff.
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

The big reason I want to do wheel landings is so I can fly inland thermal sites without being absolutely terrified of landing my glider.
And, skimming the ground at two feet for as long as possible would be a total blast.
And, I'm a screw ball, I like going against the grain.
And, if folk see me doing it and decide to give it a try, that's fine too.
And, I can't comment on wheel landings if I haven't done any.
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