Leg loops.ninemsn - 2012/04/30 19:00
Dahlia Simper, the owner of the hotel where the search team set up, said Ms Godinez's boyfriend was watching when she slipped out of her harness and fell.
That's OK, I'll be more than happy to 'splain it to ya.Jason Boehm - 2012/04/30 20:50:44 UTC
Boulder
I don't understand how this could happen.
When people try to use preflight procedures to confirm that they and their passengers will be safely connected to their gliders at the moment of launch they're not scared when...Christian Williams - 2011/10/25 03:59:58 UTC
What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
...being scared will do the most good. By the time you ARE scared you're terrified and it's too goddam late to do any good.Rob Kells - 2005/12
Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
Mick Howard - 2010/10/04 04:58:32 UTC
Zack,
I can't seem to follow this thread so perhaps you could explain this in a way that other local pilots either are able to understand or perhaps be willing to listen. We would all like to learn but the expert is not necessarily always the best teacher.
Zack C - 2010/10/04 13:58:32 UTC
In the interest of improving safety, I'll give it a shot. Tad makes a lot of facetious statements for dramatic effect that may throw people off. I don't have time to go back through all the previous posts so this is entirely from memory. I'm just going to address to failure-to-hook-in (FTHI) issue, although the thread began discussing weak links and also touched on releases.
FTHI is one of the most common but preventable causes of accidents in our sport. Because the consequence of FTHI is often death, Tad likens launching unhooked to putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger without first verifying the gun is not loaded and the safety's off.
The two most commonly used methods to verify one is hooked into a hang glider are the hang check and the 'Aussie method' (i.e., never ever wearing a harness that isn't hooked into a glider). The hang check may occur some time before the actual launch. The pilot could have unhooked in that time, or could have in his mind that he did a hang check when moving up to launch even though he didn't. FTHI accidents may be very rare, but this is how they happen. Tad says the hang check method teaches pilots to assume they're hooked in on launch, which is very dangerous. He likens it to assuming the gun is unloaded because you think you checked it a while ago, then putting it to your head and pulling the trigger.
Pilots using the Aussie method also make the assumption that they're hooked in just prior to launching without verifying it. While strict adherence to the method would prevent FTHI incidents, they have happened to practitioners, who inevitably are told they weren't using the Aussie method. There are also many times when the Aussie method is impractical (I'll spare the list for brevity), and if you can't adhere to it 100% of the time in every launch situation, you're not following the Aussie method and the rationale behind using it falls apart.
Neither the hang check nor the Aussie method are endorsed as a valid method to verify one is hooked in just prior to launch by the hang gliding organizations in either the US or Australia. In the requirements for every rating, USHPA says that pilots must demonstrate they are hooked in just prior to every launch, and Tad says instructors are failing to teach and enforce this.
The method Tad advocates is lifting the glider seconds before launching and feeling a tug on the leg loops. Rather than making an assumption of being hooked in on launch, his mindset is to assume he's never hooked in until this final verification is made. This method has also been endorsed by Dennis Pagen and Rob Kells (among others). It should be made part of pilots' muscle memory as part of the launch sequence. The hang check and Aussie methods may still be used for pre-flight purposes. Tad likens lift-and-tug to attempting to fire the gun at the ground just before putting it against your head.
With regards to foot launched towing, Tad advocates lifting the glider twice quickly as the pilot's 'go' signal. If the winch/vehicle operator only commences the tow with this signal, it would prevent accidents like Martin's. Charles has pointed out that it is possible for lift-and-tug to give one a false impression that he is through his leg loops. But while it may not be perfect, it is far better than not performing any hook-in verification.
I tried doing lift-and-tugs two weeks ago and wasn't able, and Tad concedes some will have difficulty with this method and suggests an alternate way of checking by tapping your carabiner with the back of your helmet just prior to launching. It seems to me that even if I could do lift-and-tug, it would result in a destabilization of the wing at the most critical time, but practitioners of this method don't seem to have any issues.
I disagree with Tad's implications that we have learned nothing since Martin's accident simply because we have not adopted this method (launch marshals are probably going to be damn sure pilots are hooked in prior to signaling the tow operator to commence, and pilots are going to be more careful as well). But the possibility of future FTHI incidents is still there and will grow as the memory of Martin's accident fades. A permanent change in procedure is this best way to prevent future occurrences. You can read Tad's article on the issue here:
http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/FTHI.pdf
Tad,Tad Eareckson wrote: ...
... There IS a god.
Possibly. But if he was worth a rat's ass then Bo, Rooney, and Davis would be dead and Frank Sauber, Eleni Zeri, and Lenami Godinez wouldn't.There most certainly IS a God.
I'll let you know when I start feeling it - or start seeing him do anything for any of the stuff that I really care about.God loves you...
We all get to make mistakes. We don't get to pretend we don't and keep on making them - especially when other people's lives are on the line....even though I also have said and done wrong things ( as you have often pointed out in your posts ).
People who in REAL aviation would be grounded and in prison. So one does what one can....though you might say hateful and hurtful things towards so many people.
Good. Hopefully all participants on this forum are - Yours Truly included.I am trying to improve.
I choose. But not necessarily the way the same way you do or with the precise same objective in mind.I know that you can also, if you would choose to do so.
And I want you to know that while you're praying I'm doing research and trying to get messages out so people like you won't have to rip your shoulders apart and people like your buddy Bille won't shove the fragments of their shin bones six inches out of the bottoms of their shoes. (Maybe that's just another way of praying.)I want you to know that I pray often...
I have thousands of people working on doing tons of damage to me. How much difference do think one more or less could possibly make?...someday realize the damage that you are doing to yourself...
http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=883...and the hurt you can cause others by the way you choose to deliver your messages.
The other way wasn't working - never does when you're dealing with scum. And - let's face it - the vast majority of hang gliding people are scum.Warren Narron - 2012/03/16 16:28:48 UTC
Tad wasn't always so hostile and aggressive. Early on in his quest to change dangerous/dogmatic procedures and improve the chance of safety to his fellow pilots, I was awed at how much crap he actually took... course he finally snapped and let the pent up anger fly and I can't really blame him. Willful ignorance pisses me off too.
Continue to ignore the message and pilots will suffer needlessly.
- Very few of these IDEAS are mine. Damn near all of them were around prior to my entry into the sport in 1980 - about four years after yours.I implore you to consider how you might share your ideas and opinions without hate, negativity, vulgarity, or insult.
See this:with respect,
'Spark
It originally looked like this:Newton - 2012/01/29 05:38:03 UTC
(TAD spam removed)
(And no, Tad never registered under a Newton identity to go sneaking back into Jack's shit heap. (But you don't gotta be a rocket scientist to figure out who Newton was.))
...removed was originally intended as an article for publication in the magazine.No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.
That was the last I ever heard.Subj: FTHI
Date: 2009/10/13 16:03:35
From: nick.greece at ushpa dot aero
To--: TadErcksn at aol dot com
Hi there,
Sorry it has taken me a bit to reply. Your ideas are being considered at the committee chair level. I sent your article to Joe Gregor, the safety chair, for comment and he will get back to you shortly.
Thanks and let me know if you have any questions!
Nick
...as you yourself bloody well know.Allen Sparks - 2010/09/07 01:03:18 UTC
Evergreen, Colorado
Oscar,
I'm very happy you weren't injured.
Helen,
Thanks for the Tad 'lift and tug' reminder.
I have launched unhooked and experienced the horror of hanging by my fingers over jagged rocks ... and the surreal result - i.e. not being significantly injured.
I am a firm believer in 'lift and tug' and the mindset of assuming I am not hooked in. It is motivated by the recurring memory of my own experience ... and the tragic deaths and life-altering injuries of good friends.
So FINALLY we get to hear that the glider only landed with ONE harness.Global Post - 2012/05/01 00:04
David Trifunov
Hang-glider death: charges laid against pilot
Police charged a hang-glider pilot with obstruction of justice Monday after his passenger fell almost 1,000 feet to her death on Saturday in remote British Columbia, CBC News reported.
William Jonathan Orders, 50, allegedly withheld evidence that could shed light on his role in the tragedy, RCMP said.
"We have the hang-glider; we've got all of the hardware that goes with it. We'll find an expert that will tell us what needs to happen if any of the equipment failed," Sgt. Mark Pelz said.
Lenami Dafne Godinez, 27, fell shortly after takeoff from Mount Woodside, an area popular with hang gliders ninety minutes east of Vancouver in the Fraser Valley, CTV News reported.
Witnesses said something appeared to go wrong almost immediately, and Godinez was gripping the pilot as she slid away during the tandem flight.
More from GlobalPost: Woman dies after fall from tandem hang glider
A man who participated in the search and rescue - which took more than seven hours to find the body - said it didn't appear she was ever secured to the glider, CTV reported.
"It's almost certain that she wasn't hooked in," Alex Raymont told CTV. "I looked at the harness. I couldn't see it all ... but it's almost certain she wasn't connected at all."
Godinez moved to Canada from Mexico about nine years ago, the Vancouver Sun reported.
She attended university in B.C. and worked at the Vancouver Olympics in 2010. Most recently, she'd worked for the provincial environment ministry.
Her boyfriend had purchased the hang-gliding flight as an anniversary gift, and was filming when she fell.
"It's especially tragic because of who Lenami was," colleague Michelle Nilson told the Sun. "She was such a diplomatic, sweet and amazing person to work with."
Orders has sixteen years of experience, and has given tandem flights for about three years, CBC said.
He remains in custody until Wednesday when he will hear his charges in court.
Don't need to be too much of an expert on this one, Sarg. Even some of your HPAC officials could probably manage it. But try Steve at Hang Glide Vancouver Island if you really get in a bind. (May hafta look him up yourself though 'cause none of the HPAC guys have ever heard of him before.)We'll find an expert that will tell us what needs to happen if any of the equipment failed," Sgt. Mark Pelz said.
Yeah Steve.Steve Baran - 2012/05/01 02:41:24 UTC
Chattaroy, Washington
The story does mention that there is a video of the launch - by the woman's boyfriend. Perhaps the video plus witness accounts (and information from the pilot) will shed light on just what went wrong. I get the feeling though from what has been reported that the woman was just not hooked in.
Very tragic - I wish the best resolution possible for all involved. When we make a mistake it can be very costly. I'll double my own efforts at being a safe pilot.
No, but we sure can do a lot of things to seriously delay it. And in all three of those incidents it's a either a certainty or a real good bet that bad decisions were made by everyone having control of everything that moved.paulsreef - 2012/01/08 18:59:19 UTC
Toronto
My friend's son died when he was hit by a garbage truck while riding his bicycle. Another friend's son died when he miscalculated a jump when skiing. Our neighbours lost both of their children in a car crash while driving up to the cottage. Death is a part of life, we cannot escape it.
Anybody who thinks that hang gliding is more about taking risk than driving to the grocery store shouldn't be participating in it.Do we teach our children to go through life without taking any risk? Risk is necessary to succeed in life.
When's the most critical time to do the check which is most likely to find the equipment problem which causes such a high percentage of the devastating consequences that all other other equipment problems combined aren't even measurable by comparison?Teaching our children to take precautions and to take the time to double check their safety equipment and gear.
ELIMINATING risk - wherever possible - is what we need to teach. And we CAN eliminate it for the overwhelming majority of what we do in this sport.Managing risk is what we need to teach.
- IT DOESN'T MATTER TO THE SLIGHTEST DEGREE WHETHER OR NOT ANYBODY'S HOOKED IN WHILE WALKING UP TO LAUNCH.paulsreef - 2012/05/01 09:50:47 UTC
When doing tandems, is there not another person helping with the launch, checking the passenger's harness, hang height and then scanning everything while walking up to the launch? The pilot doesn't have eyes at the back of his head to see if the passenger got unhooked for whatever reason and didn't reattach.
I wouldn't worry yourself too much about that one.I hope the boy friend wasn't given the responsibility to see if everything was ready and safe to fly if he also was exposed to the sport for the first time.
...just how critical and dangerous this part of the operation is, Jon filled them with a lot of crap...Rob Kells - 2005/12
Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
...leading them to believe that this game doesn't have any more kill potential than a little evening kayak tour through the salt marshes. So NOBODY was looking for ANYTHING at the critical moment.The Experience of Vancouver Hang Gliding
For those of you who have gazed longingly at the birds soaring high overhead, here is your opportunity to make your dreams come true and join them.
What a passenger should expect from a tandem HG flight, and what will be expected of them
You and your Instructor will set up the hang glider, you will be given a quick pre-flight briefing, practise a few launch runs, and then run side by side off the mountain and into the sky. Once launched, there is nothing else you need to do! Just relax and enjoy the feeling. Your pilot will encourage you to give it a try. Look ahead and relax and you will soon be flying the hang glider all by yourself. We will not compromise on safety.
Yeah. Three seconds too late to do anything.I read that witnesses said it didn't appear that she was hooked in.
I like this idea!I think we should have a sign at launch sites that illustrates what being hooked in means, so people that have never flown would understand the consequences of what happens when you don't hook in.
ATTENTION ALL SPECTATORS!
- We hang glider pilots are too fucking stupid to check to make sure that we - and, occasionally, our passengers - are actually connected to our gliders within five seconds of launch.
- Consequently we would greatly appreciate it if anyone - age six and up - capable of reading this sign would pay close attention to make sure that the number of steel clips connected to the straps hanging down from the glider matches the number of people under the glider.
- As a token of appreciation for anyone noticing a discrepancy and bringing it to the attention of one or more of the people under the glider in a timely manner, Vancouver Hang Gliding will award a gift certificate good for a fifty percent discount on a tandem flight within a six week period subsequent to the notification.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter and have a great day!
Might also help if you always had at least one pair of eyes under the glider who would always do the check - even if he's absolutely positive that he did everything right two minutes ago.Having extra eyes scanning the launches cannot hurt.
Right.It's really tragic if witnesses saw that she wasn't hooked in and didn't speak up.
And even if they do...I talk about hang gliding with people at work and you would be surprised at how many say that they are too afraid to hang glide because they don't think they could hang on, that they don't have the arm strength.
...the instructor's shoes may not be tied tightly enough.As she broke free, she grabbed onto the pilot's legs in desperation, pulling his shoes off his feet as she lost hold.
If you see Mike tell him to go fuck himself for me. I hold him a helluva lot more responsible for this one than I do Jon. And where you're coming from is a concrete example of what I'm saying.paulsreef - 2012/01/08 03:53:03 UTC
I took lessons with High Perspective back in the '80's at Centennial Park five minutes from my home in Etobicoke.
Another job well done, Wills Wing. (Gonna publish another article in the magazine in response to this one? Or would y'all just as soon that as little attention as possible be paid lest people start making the connection? (The cognitive one I mean.))Vancouver Hang Gliding
We are dealers and distributors for Wills Wing for all hang gliding related gear.
Wills Wing Dealership Requirements/Guidelines - 2012/05/01
We at Wills Wing feel that the most important role of the dealer is to insure the safety of the retail customer and promote the safe growth of the sport by offering quality instruction and service. It is primarily on our determination of your ability to do that that we grant dealerships and corresponding discounts.
The responsibilities of a Wills Wing HANG GLIDER DEALER include:
A) Offering competent, safe instruction in the proper and safe use of hang gliding equipment.
The Vancouver Sun - 2012/05/01
The pilot involved in Saturday's fatal hang-gliding accident in the Fraser Valley has been charged with obstructing justice.
The Vancouver Sun - 2012/04/30
Kelly Sinoski and Tara Carman
No oversight on hang-gliding
Self-regulation fails to prohibit pilots from taking flight
Transport Canada regulates ultralight planes and skydiving, but the sport of hang-gliding is largely unregulated - despite five fatalities across Canada in the past decade, including three in B.C.
And while there's a body that certifies hang-gliding instructors, the Hang Gliders and Paragliders Association of Canada said it can do nothing to prevent pilots from taking people on flights, even if their membership in the association has been revoked.
William (Jon) Orders, the pilot involved in last weekend's tragedy, in which a 27-year-old woman became detached from the tandem glider and plunged 300 metres to her death, was an experienced and paid-up member of HPAC.
But Steve Parson, a Canadian pilot who was convicted of manslaughter in New Zealand in 2010 after he failed to hook his female passenger into the glider, is still offering tandem flights on Vancouver Island on his website despite not being a member.
Parson was involved in an accident after he returned to Canada, in which one of his student took off on a solo flight and crashed during his sixth lesson.
HPAC spokesman Jason Warner said he wasn't too familiar with what happened in New Zealand and could not "confirm or deny" whether Parson - who is no longer a member of HPAC - was still offering flights. Parson did not return phone calls to The Vancouver Sun Monday.
"We're self-regulated. We can only advise them and tell people what the regulations are," Warner said. "If they continue to fly, that's up to them to do it."
HPAC takes credit for keeping the sport self-regulated, according to its website, which states: "In this age of government regulations, it is significant that hang gliding and paragliding are the least regulated segments of aviation. This is due to the nature of these sports and the unrelenting effort of the HPAC/ACVL to keep these sports free of regulation."
This means Transport Canada's aviation regulations do not impose any training requirements for hang-glider or paraglider pilots, nor do they require the pilots to hold a licence or permit. Transport Canada does, however, require that pilots pass a written test known as the HAGAR examination before taking hang-gliders and paragliders into controlled airspace.
Bill Yearwood of the transportation safety board noted there are fewer regulations as the flying craft gets smaller. Big aircraft, for instance, are heavily regulated followed by smaller planes, float planes, private operations, ultralights and hot air balloons.
Ultralight aircraft pilots are required by Transport Canada to get a specialized permit for that purpose and the aircraft must meet certain design specifications. A recreational pilot permit is required for any single-engine aircraft in order for the pilot to transport a passenger.
But those regulations don't apply to hang-gliders, who wear a harness hooked into a glider, while a passenger is connected to the same wing. The pair then usually run down a short ramp or mountain and as the airspeed increases, the glider lifts them into the air.
HPAC, a non-profit membership organization, provides a national insurance program as well as guidelines for pilots and instructors. This includes requiring instructors to be 18 or older with at least 25 hours air time in either hang-gliding or paragliding. They are also required to have a valid first-aid certificate, complete an instructor certification course and put in another 25 hours assisting a certified instructor.
The RCMP and BC Coroner's Services are still trying to figure out what went wrong with last weekend's fatal flight.
Orders, who has 16 years experience and offered tandem flights through his company, Vancouver Hang Gliding, had just launched off Mount Woodside near Agassiz when his passenger, Lenami Godinez, started falling.
Police noted Orders tried to grab the woman and the straps of her harness as she clutched desperately for a hold on the pilot, even clinging to his feet before she plunged 300 metres to her death. Her body was found seven hours later in a clearcut, 20 metres from one of Orders' shoes.
Orders was charged Monday with obstructing justice in connection with "an allegation that he withheld potential key evidence which could help determine whether he played a role in any wrongdoing."
In the New Zealand case, Parson, who was considered a Canadian pilot abroad at the time, was charged with manslaughter after he failed to properly hook 23-year-old Greek tourist Eleni Zeri into the hang-glider during a trip in 2003.
In a case eerily similar to what happened at Mount Woodside, the two launched from a site on the Remarkables mountain range, when it was discovered almost immediately that Zeri wasn't attached to the glider.
As she hung by her hands, Parson tried to hold her, even wrapping his legs around her, but she slipped, falling 200 metres. He had faced 10 years in prison but was instead given community service and ordered to pay $10,000 NZ.
There have been other tragedies involving tandem hang-gliding flights.
In 2002, a pilot and student were being towed by an ultralight on a tandem training flight near Fort Langley when the tow line snapped and the glider spiralled out of control.
William Allen Woloshyniuk, 40, of Coquitlam and his student, Victor Douglas Cox, also 40, of Cumberland on Vancouver Island, both fell 300 metres, struck a tree and died.
Altogether, hang-gliding accidents across Canada between 2002 and 2012 have resulted in two serious injuries and five fatalities, including the three in B.C.
There were two other B.C. fatalities before 2002. Two years earlier, John Ames, a hang-gliding student, had a heart attack in the air. That crash, at the Fort Langley sea plane base, killed Ames and instructor Raymond Smith.