landing

[Zack C]

On yours...[...] I'm pretty happy handing all of that one to Matt.

What about my decision to aim for the end of the field? Also, don't forget:

I didn't understand why the instructor emphasized that type of approach and felt it was safer to use more room.

The reason I'm pushing what I'm pushing is because it takes LESS skill - and has more margin of error and redundancy built into it - than angles, spots, and figure eights.

Hmmmm...not sure if I agree there. Turning too low seems like a not particularly difficult thing to do and could have serious consequences. But my biggest concern is turbulence. Look at what happened to Linda Salamone. You get turned or aren't able to turn when you're near the ground and not pointed into the wind/the field things could get ugly. I know, carry lotsa extra speed, but is that always going to be enough?

That is so incredibly freakin' NOT relevant to what I'm pushing. I'm tellin' ya to do hard rolls.

The video was an attempted high-bank wingover to the right, but his 'body got swung to the left', causing the attempt to look more like a loop. I referenced it because to me it illustrates that botched wingovers can have serious consequences. Although I do realize there's a huge difference between mild and severe wingovers (as with increasing severity they eventually become loops).

Satan hat, time machine, 2009/01/13, Valle de Bravo. I beam you back to just after launch with your brain still wired with what's about to happen. The ONLY way you're allowed to stop those x-rays from becoming a reality is to start from a hundred feet over the middle of the field, dive to the barbed wire fence down to fifteen feet, then wang it around 180 degrees with a seventy degree bank angle. After that you're on your own. And, don't forget, you can practice a couple on the way down. Take it?

Probably not. 180 degrees with only 15 feet? Is that even possible on a Sting? I think I'd have the potential to end up in much worse shape (possibly dead) if I botched that. Did you actually fly approaches like this?

About John Seward...to be clear, I'm not saying he wasn't killed because he didn't know how to fly from the basetube (for the purpose of this discussion, let's say he was). I just don't think foot landing emphasis is the reason he wasn't taught to fly from the basetube.

You can't do a lift and tug - which would be ideal - but you CAN at least simulate it...

Except that I don't foot launch tow (yet, anyway...).

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

What about my decision to aim for the end of the field? Also, don't forget...

The instructor DOES score a few Brownie points - and maybe you lose a couple - BUT that stuff shoulda been BURNED into your circuitry well before you got your Two. Aviation 101: Nothing more useless than runway behind you. Can't get much more fundamental than that. Lookout's got miles to burn so they don't think of it or teach treating it as a precious commodity.

Hmmmm...not sure if I agree there. Turning TOO low seems...

Not sure... Seems... Find out. When it snows take your car out to an empty parking lot and... Oh. Never mind. Put the freakin' glider through its paces up high, find out what it'll do and how to make it do it.

But my biggest concern is turbulence.

Everybody's biggest concern is turbulence. That's why you carry enough extra speed so you can get hit by the nastiest shit mathematically possible and still have enough margin left over so that you can go back up and regroup.

Look at what happened to Linda Salamone.

Linda Salamone is an idiot. I talked about her with Matt. He said her landings sucked (as if I didn't know that already). She made a downwind to a treeline and didn't have enough speed to control the glider when she got there. Zero excuse for flying over a big field and then missing it. And her Plan B was nothing to write home about either. She's a perfect negative example of what I'm trying to get through to you.

I know, carry lotsa extra speed, but is that always going to be enough?

YES.

Next time it's sleddy at Columbus do a steep dive on your Sport to the downwind end of the grass on the near side of the runway then watch how high you can climb back out. (And keep good pressure back on the bar as you're topping out so things don't get ugly.)

...but his 'body got swung to the left'...

Guess I shoulda gone back and reread the quote after I watched the video but, nevertheless...

When this guy says "wingover" he doesn't mean "high banked turn". He means WING OVER. He means looking at mostly sky.

I'm a wimp. I've never taken it beyond ninety. So if you wanna do that talk to Ryan or somebody.

You've never heard me advise you to do a wingover. I don't use that term unless I'm talking about beyond ninety. I use wang which I - and I'm guessing most folk - use and interpret to mean something at or beyond placard and shy of lotsa upside-down.

180 degrees with only 15 feet? Is that even possible on a Sting?

I'll bet that glider can be looped. So I'm gonna go with a no problem.

Did you actually fly approaches like this?

No, but I think I did something pretty close one time at Currituck where everything was really wide open and the air was pretty boring. But if somebody said do it or I'm gonna break both your arms...

I think I'd have the potential to end up in much worse shape (possibly dead) if I botched that.

So back off and do something along those lines - it doesn't hafta be all or nothing. Do a 120 degree turn at thirty feet using a sixty degree bank. Practice stuff in easy conditions so you can do it if you need to.

I just don't think foot landing emphasis is the reason he wasn't taught to fly from the basetube.

So then what else could it possibly be? Again, the guy in the Koch two stage video... The transition is instantaneous. What level of skill does that take? Why would anyone NOT do that?

You train a new driver just to use the parking brake to stop the car and then give him his license to go out on the interstate before he's got the brake pedal thing hardwired into muscle memory?

Except that I don't foot launch tow (yet, anyway...).

And hopefully never will 'cause I'm thinking that not being hooked in for an aerotow launch on an asphalt runway isn't likely to be the greatest of your potential problems. But, although you get a lot of points for watching the carabiner through the camera lens, it's been a long time since I've heard of you making any progress on that front regarding your own foot launches.

[Zack C]

Not sure... Seems... Find out.

I already know turning too low isn't too difficult to do...I've done it.

You've never heard me advise you to do a wingover. I don't use that term unless I'm talking about beyond ninety. I use wang which I - and I'm guessing most folk - use and interpret to mean something at or beyond placard and shy of lotsa upside-down.

Then we haven't been on the same page. The only time I've heard 'wang' defined was by Pagen in Performance Flying, who says what we call 'wingovers' aren't really wingovers as the airplane guys define them and thus uses the term 'wang' instead. So in the hang gliding context they mean the same thing. I thought that was the definition you were using. So is your definition of 'wang' just a steep bank, or is it the same thing as a wingover but with less than ninety degrees of bank?

So back off and do something along those lines - it doesn't hafta be all or nothing.

It did in the hypothetical time travel scenario I was responding to.

Practice stuff in easy conditions so you can do it if you need to.

Isn't that a little like practicing no-step landings for in case you have to land in corn? You said the pilot that had to do that in Dave's scenario fucked up. To me, if I have to land in a field requiring an approach like that I fucked up.

The transition is instantaneous. What level of skill does that take? Why would anyone NOT do that?

I've already discussed this, which is why I said I don't think we're going to agree. The transition isn't instantaneous (especially if you include the time to kick your feet in the boot) and your control is limited when you're doing it. It's why there's so much debate about when to go to the downtubes when landing and why I said I turn in ridge lift before I transition. It's also why I said I'm going to keep my hands on the downtubes throughout a flight off Lookout's big training hill, especially if I'm having to fly reversing 90s as soon as I launch. Furthermore, I don't agree that control is compromised in this position (other than max speed, and beginners can fly plenty fast enough off just the downtubes). Training harnesses are designed to be minimal and generally don't support going prone.

In short, students stay on the downtubes because transitioning is an extra step to worry about when their airtime on a training hill flight is already extremely limited, the only advantage of going prone is reducing drag which students don't need to be worrying about on their first flights anyway, and if you can fly from the downtubes you can fly from the basetube. At least that's what (I suspect) instructors like Jeff and those at Lookout think. But again, we won't know until we hear their reasoning.

But, although you get a lot of points for watching the carabiner through the camera lens, it's been a long time since I've heard of you making any progress on that front regarding your own foot launches.

Technically I can't see the carabiner through the lens. Point-and-shoot cameras today don't have optical viewfinders and I can't see much on an LCD in sunlight. So I set the camera on the subject and then look over it.

Anyway, I still haven't tried to adjust my harness to get lift-and-tug to work. My zipper was ripping off the velcro from the boot end of my harness, preventing me from zipping, and fixing it was a prerequisite, which was not trivial since I hadn't sewn anything in my life. I actually just got that done last night (I am so buying a thimble the next time I have to sew anything...) so I'm going to move forward on this, but I'd be making a lot more progress if I wasn't spending so much time here. =)

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

I've done it.

Yeah, but you also said:

I suspect you're thinking that I would have been fine if I'd had plenty of reserve speed, and you'd probably be right.

The only time I've heard 'wang' defined...

Then apologies for sloppy language. I think of a wang as shoving the bar back and then snapping it around at or beyond placard up to ninety - the limit of my testosterone reserves.

It did in the hypothetical time travel scenario I was responding to.

OK, that was too scary. What's your break even (the other kind) point right now?

Isn't that a little like practicing no-step landings...

I've so far ever heard of one downtube - yours - being taken out by anybody blowing that maneuver. I lost count of how much stuff I saw bent and broken by blown standup landings in ONE flush cycle at Lookout a couple of years ago. I don't know how many downtubes I've personally taken out and the stuff that's been done to arms and shoulders is horrifying.

I think being on the downtubes was a major factor in the 2009/09/19 Bill Vogel fatality - even Jason Boehm briefly agreed with me before he realized he was agreeing with me. It was a no brainer that it did in Gerry Smith - 1994/10/29. And I'll betchya Tom Perfetti was upright on final at forty feet on 1982/06/20 just before buying the High Rock LZ - I didn't read or hear anything about him being prone with the bar back when he got hit.

1. Flare timing is CRITICAL - and if you get gusted all bets are off.
2. You can get your timing pretty good and still do stuff to your back.
3. If you practice it up high you're gonna tumble.
4. In your Sport 2 owner's manual read what it says at the bottom of Page 3 concerning the limitation of your pitch attitude.
5. Look at the pitch attitude of the glider in the right illustration at the bottom of Page 30. My protractor says that's violating the placard limitation five degrees short of double.
6. Doesn't that seem a bit discordant?
7. Look at the illustration again and think about your back.

Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."

1. There's nothing terribly critical about high banked high speed turns.
2. You can practice the hell out of them up high.
3. If you take it to ninety you've only exceeded placard by 33 percent.
4. If you blow it at ninety up high you're still OK.
5. This stuff is FUN - it's just an extension of dune flying.

To me, if I have to land in a field requiring an approach like that I fucked up.

Seven foot high corn is pretty much off the table for me but I'm not entirely opposed to fucking up in hang gliding - within reason and at frequencies not exceeding every other weekend. It's good to be skilled enough to have a reasonable shot at stopping it on a dime on your feet if it becomes necessary. But I'd rather take my chances with a field with a good surface that requires a real tight approach than something bigger in which I'm gonna eat rock if I blow my flare timing.

It's why there's so much debate about when to go to the downtubes when landing...

Whereas I think the debate should be more about IF to go to the downtubes when landing. Reminds me a bit of this sort of controversy...

http://ozreport.com/3.066
Weaklinks

Davis Straub - 1999/06/06

A few weeks later I was speaking with Rhett Radford at Wallaby Ranch about weaklinks and the issue of more powerful engines, and he felt that stronger weaklinks (unlike those used at Wallaby or Quest) were needed. He suggested between five and ten pounds of additional breaking strength.

0.40 Gs or 0.42 Gs? How can we possibly decide?

I advocate staying prone into ground effect - as does Doug Rice (the Instructor who passed me on my Two flight stuff after my eighth class). I'd often have one hand low on a downtube so that it was pretty easy to go back down if I needed to or up when/if it was safe to do so.

Furthermore, I don't agree that control is compromised in this position (other than max speed...

That's the big other than. That's like aerotowing one point. You don't have the full speed range, you've decertified the glider. You're very unlikely to NEED the full speed range but, sooner or later, someone will.

Training harnesses are designed to be minimal and generally don't support going prone.

The training harnesses we used were essentially stirrup harnesses without the stirrups. You could go prone just fine but it was gonna stop being fun after thirty seconds or so.

But again, we won't know until we hear their reasoning.

1. I haven't heard their reasoning but...

Being that John was still very new to flying in the prone position...

...it better be real good to justify that one.

2. If they're functioning as USHGA certified Instructors and signing off USHGA Proficiency Ratings we bloody well oughta KNOW their reasoning - especially when there are at least two or three people of the opinion that the "reasoning" got someone killed.

My zipper was ripping off the velcro from the boot end of my harness...

I eventually got fed up with all the bullshit velcro problems and stitched the zipper directly to the harness. I've landed zipped up a bunch of times after (waiting too long and) having zipper problems AND being unable to blow the velcro.

...since I hadn't sewn anything in my life.

And now you're an expert - so you can reverse engineer all my stuff and start making it yourself.

I am so buying a thimble...[/

A pair of pliers works nice if you ever run into anything really brutal.

...if I wasn't spending so much time here.[/

But think of all the good you're doing for humanity (not that much of it deserves it).

[Zack C]

What's your break even (the other kind) point right now?

I dunno...for a 180, maybe a 60 degree bank at 60 feet.

I haven't heard their reasoning but...

Being that John was still very new to flying in the prone position...

...it better be real good to justify that one.

On this we agree. I flew from the basetube prone on my tandems and from the downtubes at the hills so by the time I soloed I was comfortable doing both. Until you mentioned John not being taught to fly from the basetube I never even considered it being a skill that needed to be taught or practiced. But if it is, a student sure as hell needs to get experience doing it before being in a situation like John's final flight.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

I dunno...for a 180, maybe a 60 degree bank at 60 feet.

You're probably tired of hearing me say this, but if you grew up at Jockey's Ridge and didn't do 180s every ten seconds at six feet or less you didn't get any airtime. If conditions were good enough to expect sixty over we carried oxygen.

But if it is, a student sure as hell needs to get experience doing it before being in a situation like John's final flight.

Technically only the first half of John's final flight was a flight - the second was a stall.

(Dan commented later that he felt he had observed John cross controlling the glider during the turn.)

I hate that bullshit "cross controlling" term. It's not "cross controlling" - it's "NOT controlling".

I think it's a symptom of two problems. In order of increasing magnitude...

- The freakin' "instructors" can't communicate how a glider's turned - primarily 'cause they don't UNDERSTAND how a glider's turned.

- The student doesn't have a helluva lot of aptitude for flying anyway - 'cause the ones that DO very quickly learn to tune out the bullshit the idiots on the ground are telling them and listen to the glider.

After about a dozen training hill flights a pilot should be able to control the glider from the basetube, from the downtubes, or standing in the control frame.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23357
4/4/11 Quest results?

Ron Gleason - 2011/04/05 18:46:41 UTC

So, what happened with Campbell's flight? I will never forget his advice 'you may survive the landing but you may not survive the walk out!'

Davis Straub - 2011/04/05 19:17:15 UTC

97 miles.

Keystone airfield. Very easy to walk out of.

BTW, I saw Campbell land on his feet after he landed back next to Jamie at Quest after not getting out on his first flight. He normally lands on his wheels (had a broken down tube fixed from Sunday), but with the strong winds he was able to land on his feet holding onto the base tube.

Campbell (Bowen - I'm presuming) was the first person to tow me up behind a Dragonfly - 1991/08/02. At the 2008 ECC I showed him on the test rig the difference between a non stupid barrel release and a Bailey and he was very happy to have me set him up with one of my twin barrels / bridle link assemblies. He didn't really understand what a weak link was but was smart enough to have been using a double loop of 130 on his one point. I left him at about four hundred pounds.

Said he really needed to talk to Bobby about the pins but I guess we all know how things turned out on that front.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23368
Landing Clinic Ingredients

Davis Straub - 2011/04/05 12:50:50 UTC

Held during the Wills Wing Demo Days (Wallaby Ranch)

Ryan and Paul Voight

(The "ingredients list")

500-300 ft:

01) Identify L.Z., choose target

John Simon - 2009/01

As I approached the taxiway and signs, I decided to go upright. This is where things started going really bad really fast. I missed a downtube - not once, but twice. As expected, this sent me into a wag or two, leaving me low, left, and over a sign at about 26-29 mph. I thought if I could just get hold of the downtube, I'd push out and fly well over it. Alas, I did not and passed with two feet of clearance under my basetube. "Wow," I thought, "that was close. I hope my feet clear it too."

Got that, John?. Concentrate on what you want to HIT - not on what you want to MISS.

02) MAKE A PLAN! Decide pattern you intend to utilize
03) Monitor wind direction via multiple indicators
04) Scan for obstacles, hazards, slope, power lines, people, etc
05) Continuously check for other air-traffic
06) Altitude check continuously
07) Check distance from L.Z., Glide, L/D, air quality, (lifty/sinky), etc

Or maybe just get there with a couple of hundred feet to spare?

08) Deal with zippers, V.G. settings, strings, etc. (Ready for landing?)

Right. And if you have a problem with a zipper NEVER give up on it! Fight it all the way to the ground no matter what. Never even consider bellying in. Even if that doesn't kill you you might die on the next flight coming into in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place or a field filled with seven foot high corn because you didn't practice landing on your feet on this one.

1988/04/10 - Robert Porter - 40 - Intermediate - Lookout Mountain - Tennessee - Pacific Airwaves Magic - Fatal. Head and neck.

Forty-year-old Massachusetts Intermediate pilot on flying trip to Tennessee. Had a good launch and uneventful sled run to the landing area. Good set-up and approach; everything looked perfect. Opinions differ, but probably pilot was preoccupied with faulty harness zipper, was looking down at it, and flew into ground.

Doug Hildreth - 1990/01

Advanced - Extensive experience - High performance - Concussion

Experienced pilot enjoying his flight, came in on final and attempted to unzip his harness. Found zipper stuck in the closed position. After a couple of futile attempts to unzip using the usual method, it was too late to kick open the velcro. Pilot flared hard hoping to land upright (still in pod) but fell forward hitting his head. Knocked unconscious for a couple of minutes.

Doug Hildreth - 1990/01

Advanced - 10 years - High performance - Severe chest, vascular, and abdominal injuries.

Experienced pilot was observed from the landing area on final to be looking back at his harness boot and struggling with zipper cord. One wing suddenly went straight down and glider slid into the ground.

Luen Miller - 1995/05

Harness Problems

Four pilots had problems with harnesses, all of whom suffered moderate to serious injuries. One pilot was distracted while trying to open his harness late in his approach, and caught a wing tip on the ground in a high-speed run. He suffered a serious spinal injury.

Another pilot got his pant leg caught in the zipper, struggled with it until well into his final, and somehow stalled at 20 feet. Witnesses suspect that he either pushed out on the bar while tugging on the zipper or flew slowly through the wind gradient. He broke his wrist, dislocated another wrist bone, and suffered ligament damage.

Another had his harness open, but had trouble getting his feet out. He got distracted enough that he failed to maintain enough airspeed for the glider to respond to control input. Heading for a line of trees he managed to flare, but hit them anyway an dislocated one shoulder and broke the bone in his upper arm.

Another pilot on his first altitude flight waited until he was too close to the ground to try to exit his harness. He managed to avoid some trees as he frantically grasped for the release, failed to find it, and managed to kick the velcro out at the last minute. He was free and reaching for the uprights just as he impacted. He broke both arms and suffered serious facial injuries (no full-face helmet).

1995/07/03 - Robert Atwood - 41 - Advanced, 20 years in the sport - Large field near Springfield, Vermont - Fatal. Neck, other?

A very experienced pilot took off on a cross-country flight. He was found later by a passerby at the edge of a very large field.

The glider had come to rest about twelve feet from the line of trees around the field. The downtubes were badly bent, as were the steel plates at the nose. From the broken limbs on the ground and damage to the tops of the tree, obvious preliminary indications are that the pilot clipped the tops of the trees about 50 feet up, stalled and dove into the ground.

There is some speculation that the pilot might have been distracted by a stuck zipper on his new harness, based on an event from the previous day in which he had to kick out the velcro to free his feet.

09) If towed, check/stow tow bridal

Yeah, and maybe if you're gonna serve as a USHGA Towing Committee Chairman it would help a little if you learned to SPELL "bridal". Aw, what the fuck. If we can have a Commander In Chief for eight years who pronounces it NUKULER...

300-100 ft:

10) Formalize PLAN ("Figure 8"/ "S" approach, or Aircraft/Downwind, Base, Final.)?
11) Keep alternate plan (thinking), in case primary plan needs to change
12) Continue monitoring: wind, field, obstructions, AIR-TRAFFIC
13) Free feet from harness

And if you can't - keep fighting.

Below 100 ft: (14, 15 can be performed higher if desired)

14) Increase airspeed (if not already increased well above trim)
15) TRANSITION HANDS! (when...how) (higher altitude better than lower)

Doug Rice - 1995/07
Quaker Gap, North Carolina

I'd like to thank Erik Kaye (April "Air Mail") for describing landing techniques that I have used for many years. I have always felt that pilots rotating up to their downtubes early on final approach are at a tremendous disadvantage especially in turbulent air.

First of all, the upright position limits the glider's usable speed range by not allowing the control bar to be pulled all the way in if necessary. If a thermal is breaking off while you're crossing a tree line, you don't want to be slipping a turn to lose altitude. The best way to get down is to stay on a selected straight heading and bring the glider's nose down by pulling in. If the LZ is small, stay on the basetube, and as soon as you enter the back of the field, pull in to just a few feet off the ground. Although you will be flying low and fast, the speed will give you the authority to deal with the turbulence near the ground, and by making your forward glide level, your flying speed will smoothly drop off through ground effect. The longer you stay on the basetube, the longer you will have maximum speed and stability control. There is no need to be on the downtubes until you are ready to push all the way out.

Dennis Pagen's advice for downhill landings (May issue) can also benefit pilots on flat ground. The closer you are to the ground when you flare, the less you will fall after you stall. As long as you are flying straight and level and make a smooth transition to the downtubes at the last moment, and aggressive flare (no wind) held all the way up and out, will settle you on your feet even if you flare a moment too early. Ground skimming near the end of your glide lengthens your usable flare window, which will not only improve your landings but will give target shooters more room to hit the bull's-eye. So long as you use a quick, full flare, you never need to be holding downtubes more than halfway up. The danger of flying fast, close to the ground can be controlled with quick and decisive adjustments in pitch.

Yeah, it's not like there's ANY OTHER thinking on that issue.

- AVOID allowing "Pitch bobble", or accidental roll input!

Which you wouldn't need to be avoiding if you were flying on the basetube?

- Hands END UP at shoulder height.

Yeah, where they'll be nice and high and SAFE in a minor or major crash.

(in turbulence, can use one hand up/one on base, or remain on base longer, or too low on D.T.s - to be slid up later)

Permission to forget the fucking D.T.s altogether, sir?

16) ROUND OUT, INTO GROUND EFFECT, (not too high), recognizing GRADIENT
17) Remain level. Look ahead. Recognize speed loss as you ground effect
18) FLARE! (Timing/when)- (just before glider "settles")... how much?... feet back... (think) push UP not out) - Flaring correctly is a combination of technique and timing.
How much should you Flare in a given situation? (Flare only the amount needed... to stop your forward motion across the ground)

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3695
good day until the wreck

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/12/31 04:29:12 UTC

very light conditions at quest. me, paul, dustin, carl and jamie were going to fly out and back but not high enough so we flew around the patch. i worked small lift using carl's tips...he is english where conditions are weak, and is 2nd in world.

came in with no wind after an hour and had right wing drop. instead of wrestling gilder straight i tried to flare while desperately trying to straighten.

bad bad whack. horrible pain, i could not move. screaming with pain, literally. took a very long time to get me out and to the hospital. got very good drugs.

turned out to be badly dislocated shoulder. they had to knock me out to put it back in but it was so bad i kept waking up and screaming. finally they got it done but then they had a hard time waking me back up. drugs were so wierd by the end i could not leave for hours, i'd just start bawling for no reason.

Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...

Common denominators in bad landings: Poor planning, Poor alternate planning, Low transitions, Low turns, Low airspeed, High round-outs, Throwing feet forward, Arms extended (elbows not back) prior to when flare is called for (can't flare), Pulling back in after an early flare, Late flare, Wimpy or no flare.

Oops, left out a few...
- world class pilots
- testosterone
- low IQ
- aiming for middles of fields
- plowed fields
- tall grass
- narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place
- fields filled with seven foot high corn
- comfortable clearances from downwind obstacles
- obsessions with zippers
- placebo wheels
- long finals
- high transitions
- inability to do low turns
- entering ground effect at high speed with limited runway
- hands at shoulder height
- flares
- spot landing practice
- spot landing contests
- USHGA instructors
- USHGA instructors observing spot landings for USHGA rating requirements

* ANY combination of these denominators GREATLY increases chance of poor landing!!!

Ryan Voight - 2011/04/06 15:09:37 UTC

Just to clarify...

The "ingredients list" is generated at each clinic by the participants. At the Wallaby clinic, there were 33 participants, several of "world class" stature (pilot skill wise).
So... this particular list that resulted was quite thorough.

The Ledger - 2009/11/17
Jeremy Maready

Vermont Man Dies in Davenport Hang Glider Crash - Volunteer firefighter was gliding near Davenport Sunday (2009/11/15) when he hit tree, police say.

Anthony Ameo, 59, of Sheffield, Vermont was trying to land when he struck a pine tree and fell nearly 25 feet, according to the Polk County Sheriff's Office and officials at Wallaby Ranch, a facility that caters to hang gliders.

Ameo was flown to Lakeland Regional Medical Center where he died during surgery.

A friend said Ameo began hang gliding about three years ago and was practicing for his intermediate rating. He had passed a written test and was practicing for his flying test, which would measure his ability to set up a proper approach and flare the glider at the appropriate time to land on his feet.

"The transition (from flaring the glider to landing) takes a lot of eye-to-hand coordination," said Eugene Pettinato, Ameo's friend and flying partner. "That was his weakest area, I think."

You conduct a LANDING CLINIC at a wide open mowed flight park - the very same one where this guy died a bit over sixteen months prior 'cause he was twenty times more focused on a spot, transition, hand position, flare timing, and his goddam feet than on a safe landing - and there's not A SINGLE SOLITARY MENTION of the word "WHEELS"? You know - little round things that spin around that some people put on basetubes?

And you have the unmitigated GALL to refer to this list as "QUITE THOROUGH"?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23368
Landing Clinic Ingredients

Andy Long - 2011/04/07 04:59:11 UTC

Dropping In

Years ago I had one of those flights where I just couldn't miss. You know... where you are really in the groove? I stayed up when everyone else couldn't, thermalled out again from right over the LZ with my buddies watching, etc.

To top it all off, I made a perfect approach into a small area and decided to land right in front of my friends. But I did one thing just a tiny bit different; I flared a little bit earlier than I usually do. Yes, I was showing off.

The result looked good on paper; a perfect, no stepper drop in landing. But as soon as my feet touched the ground I felt a shock that I had never experienced before. It started in my heals, ran up my legs and right up my spine. It hurt. A lot. The ground I landed on wasn't even hard.

My lower back hurt through the break down, on the way home and for several days afterward. And I was young and in great shape at the time.

That was the last time I ever landed that way. I never do stylin drop ins any more. They look good, but sooner or later you end up paying with damage to some part of your body.

BTW, I'm not talking about one foot high "drop ins" when you still have some forward momentum. Those are fine. It's the ones where you are higher. Ones where the end of the keel sometimes hits first. Ones where you touch down from straight vertical.

I'd much rather trot or walk a few steps horizontally than drop in vertically. Fortunately, I can't do drop ins with my ATOS anyway. And if you are unlucky enough to do an early, high flare on a rigid you're going to break stuff on the glider.

2 cents,
Andy

Or maybe you'll end up paying with damage to some part of your body anyway by accidentally punching one early, getting gusted just as you punch one, and/or doing a zillion repetitions of "normal" low shock no steppers.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21053
Have fun

Steve Corbin - 2010/08/24 01:40:44 UTC

In the original "Whack" video Paul Voight gives Mitch McAleer the credit for being the first to popularize the term.

Joe, it's good to see someone giving this issue some thought. It has always bothered me that so many serious injuries and even death have occurred as a result of the simple whack.

I broke my back about two and a half years ago, I have T6 through T10 fused with titanium rods on each side of this area. I have to enlist my friends to help carry the folded glider, but I can carry it assembled as the weight is evenly distributed.

The doctor cautioned me regarding shock loads, no jumping down off the tailgate, etc. I've forgotten a couple times and boy do I get reminded very painfully! So I no longer do foot landings, I roll in on wheels. This discourages me from going XC, as I need to land where I know it's reasonably smooth enough for my wheel diameter. So adding a wheel to the nose plate might be a good idea for me.

If I land in a place that "trips" my wheels the nose wheel may prevent a sudden stop. I'm sure that there are a few paralyzed folks out there that wouldn't be if they had had three wheels.

Also, I've often wondered about a restraint rope that would limit how far forward a pilot could swing through in a whack.

A few years ago I saw a whack that demonstrated how short the forward keel is on modern kites. The guy whacked at Andy's and swung through and the nose plate came down on his head. The helmet did it's job, but I shudder to think what could have been if the keel were only a few inches shorter: It would have hit his neck. Ouch!

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23517
Comp Injuries

Scott C. Wise - 2011/04/24 15:17:01 UTC

I just heard some news about the comp in Bassanno, Italy. A day or so ago local Rochester, New York pilot Linda Salamone had a bad landing and injured her neck (no paralysis, luckily). On the same day:

http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/flyhg/message/13594
Linda

Mark T. Fruitger - 2011/04/24 01:53:25 UTC

Natalia broke her arm, one guy tumbled, Monique almost went over, ... and a bunch of guys broke downtubes landing. Yee-haw!

Regarding Linda's incident Mark reports:

It was an out landing, she had to avoid a cable (which) she didn't see until the last second and had a sub-optimal landing.

From Linda herself:

Linda Salamone - 2011/04/24 01:53:25 UTC

I broke three vertebrae in my neck. I'm really quite okay but not able to fly the Florida comps. Two months gone. :(

Sounds like another tough day at big time comp. Was the weather on the extreme side? I did a search for news on these items but found no info anywhere (except the postings to our local group). Perhaps I missed something. I poked around here as well before starting this topic.

Anyway, is this another case of meet organizers pushing the weather limits? Or, was it just a cluster of unpredictable "bad luck" situations?

1. Maybe the meet organizers SHOULD be shot.

2. But none of the competitors had a gun to his head forcing him to fly.

3. I'm guessing Natalia's hands were on the downtubes when she broke her arm?

4. I'm trying hard to remember someone getting fucked up in hang gliding as a consequence of an unpredictable "bad luck" situation. I'm not coming up with anything.

5. Maybe people who have significant episodes of "bad luck" every couple of years should reexamine their approaches to certain issues.