The Bob Show

[Tad Eareckson]

Happy Birthday, Bob. (Little late but it's still the Thirteenth here in the East.) You turned two today and you're still a one man dictatorship with a bunch of "principles" with so many asterisks nobody knows what's going on, rules you make up, bend, break, and trample to unrecognizable pulps as it suits you, a fatality rate literally on par with Russian roulette, and a forum with a barely detectable and weakening pulse.

So what have have you accomplished so far and what do you think your prospects for the future are?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1129
Elmira, Binghampton, NY HG Email list Hijacked

Scott C. Wise (wingspan33) - 2012/08/25 03:17:19 UTC

What do you do when your local hang gliding Yahoo Group gets "taken over" by a separate (80 - 150 miles away) HG club?

You return to The Bob Show, after a near two year sabbatical, where, in stark contrast to the situation in other organizations, the free speech of its members really is honored - just as long as you don't say anything Bob doesn't want you to. Then you're gonna get sabotaged, restricted, locked down, excluded, deleted, banned just like every other place.

This other club (Rochester Area Flyers) has gone and spent over $30,000 of their club's treasury (many years worth of member's dues) on an aerial tow set up. Now, to maximize their profits (replenish their treasury), they have invaded our club's email list in order, as best as I can figure, to reach the maximum pilot population in the course of promoting their new tow business.

However, almost all the pilots they are communicating at (and with) are already members of their club and very likely already able to receive messages from their own club's Google Group.

As an Elmira Club member, I don't have any interest in tow activities (too far to travel and too costly once you get there). Heck, I've got two mountain sites within five miles of my home. So, I posted a couple messages about this Rochester club flooding our Group with its own club's tow news (actually very obvious promotion) and I find myself deleted from the Yahoo Group. No reason given or even a message sent informing me I've been ousted.

Is Cragin Shelton one of the moderators?

Whatever happened to the idea of freedom of speech?

In hang gliding it's just an idea. 99 percent of the participants are extremely hostile to it and you've got shit in the way of protections. It's been that way from the start and it gets a lot worse with each passing year.

Problem is, the "owner" of the Yahoo Group is a single individual...

Kinda like The Bob Show?

...who hardly flies.

Relevance?

And while he promotes his Yahoo Group as an Elmira/Binghampton HG Club communications tool, he does not and will not refer to any of the club's leadership in the course of managing the Yahoo Group. Club officials would rather allow him to exclude someone (me) from the list then confront him and have him possibly delete the whole Yahoo Group.

Start your own group. (Or get Zack to start one for you.)

A good number of individual members of the Elmira/Binghampton Yahoo Group are also interested in towing and don't want to be identified as fighting to restore me to this email Group. Nobody wants their tow pilot to be pissed at them for siding with me.

Goddam right.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

These motherfuckers have hijacked and taken over the sport. Maybe we should nose one of them back into the runway once or twice a season just to maintain something in the way of boundaries.

So, nary a one of my long time "flying buddies" have posted anything in my defense or to urge the Yahoo Group owner to allow me back on the email list.

Go figure, Scott. So where were you when Jack, Davis, Sam, and Bob were doing that to me?

I don't figure that anyone here will have an answer toward solving this problem.

About the only people you have over there are WAY more a part of the problem than the solution.

But having it available as a topic for the larger hang gliding community, at the very least, puts it "on the record".

There's also a record over here that's getting a slowly increasing level of attention.

And if you want to see directly what's going on, do a search on Yahoo's Group home page for the "flyhg" Yahoo Group. The tow post invasion from the Rochester club should be obvious.

Or you can just run through The Bob Show's record and see similar dynamics playing out.

P.S. Any comment on the 2012/06/16 Terry Mason fatality and the response from Sam and Bob?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=795
AL's Flight At Packsaddle 10-04-11

Terry Mason - 2011/12/01 19:55:00 UTC

Those of us who prefer to fly, will always wonder about the key board jocks, who frighten away new flyers with skitzoid horror stories of murder, and at the hands of friends who only wish to share the incomparable thrill of free flight. I'm reminded of Jonathan Livingston Seagull, striving against the ever present obstructionists. Thanks to Sam for limiting Our forum to FLYERS. See you soon Bob

Manuel Valdes - 2012/09/01 21:59:36
Associated Press

Seattle

Richard Bach, the author of the 1970s best-selling novella "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" among other spiritually oriented books rooted in themes of flight and self-discovery, was in serious condition Saturday after his small plane crashed in Washington state.

The homebuilt SeaRay single-engine aircraft clipped power lines Friday at 4:30 p.m. about three miles west of Friday Harbor Airport, according to Ian Gregor, a public affairs manager for the Federal Aviation Administration.

Bach's son, James Bach, told The Associated Press that his father was on his way to visit a friend on San Juan Island when the plane went down.

James Bach said his 76-year-old father, who was flying alone, suffered a head injury and broken shoulder. He was listed in serious condition at Harborview Medical Center.

"Right now we're waiting for the sedation to wear off, for him to fully wake up," the son said Saturday morning.

Sometimes it doesn't take much, Terry. That's why you really wanna have as much going for you as possible before and during every flight of your career.

[Tad Eareckson]

Bob Kuczewski - 2012/09/13 01:12:17 UTC

Simple Tow Force Diagram

Hi Tad,

I saw something you had written that showed a suspension bridge, and it prompted me to "do the math" on V bridle tension as a function of tow force. I posted it here:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1146&p=5180
Tow Force Diagram with "V" Bridle

You're welcome to throw stones at it if you'd like. It's currently listed as a "DRAFT", and while I don't generally appreciate your scathing comments, I'll endure them as the price of your review.

One criticism...

I despise the term '"V" bridle' almost as much as the term 'pro tow' (and the vast majority of the people who use it) because I have yet to see anyone be able to form another letter of the alphabet when ANY tow bridle is being used as a tow bridle.

Kinda like...
- Damn! I picked up a roofing nail in my "O" tire on the way home.
- Anybody got an ink pen? No, thanks, but that's a molasses pen. I need an INK pen.
- There are five seagulls in that flock of gulls over the river.

Otherwise, I don't throw stones at two plus two equals four - I throw stones at:

- two plus two equals whatever we feel like calling it, as per Trisa's article in the June issue of the magazine.

- a fuckin' asshole like Sam who couldn't figure out two plus two with a gun to his head and doesn't give a rat's ass anyway ever being allowed within a half mile of the upwind end of a towline when there's glider at the other.

I appreciate your work on the diagram but...

- The only people capable of understanding the math - about 0.01 percent of the people in hang gliding - don't need the explanation.

- You're using the formula: Line Tension = Tow Force/2(cos(atan(w/2d)))

- The only practical value that diagram has is for the calculation of the load on a weak link on a two point aerotow bridle. And we can do that by assuming a sixty degree apex angle, splitting the towline tension in half, and adding fifteen percent. PLENTY close enough.

-- The FAA defines/mandates - appropriately - a weak link safety range of 0.8 to 2.0 times the glider's maximum certified operating weight. And the middle of that range is 1.4.

-- A "standard aerotow weak link" on the top end of a two point ""V" bridle" hits the sweet spot for a glider with a 161 pound max flying weight.

-- There's no such thing as a glider 161 with a pound max flying weight. A baby Falcon 3 is 235. That's one and a half times as heavy as the nonexistent dwarf glider and requires a weak link one and a half times as strong as the nonexistent dwarf glider uses.

- It doesn't do any good for anyone to be able to calculate the load on a weak link unless he can figure out the difference between a weak link and a release, what happens when you stop fighting a lockout with both hands, and what a glider does after a weak link blows. And there's only about a half dozen people in hang gliding who can jump that hurdle (and Steve Aeroexperiments Seibel ain't one of them).

- It also doesn't do any good for anyone to be able to calculate the load on a weak link when the weak link is of an assumed rather than actual/tested strength.

- It also doesn't do any good for anyone to be able to calculate the load on a weak link when the motherfuckers who've been allowed to hijack this rather large branch of the sport...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/19 14:50:52 UTC

And yes, get behind me with a "strong link" and I will not tow you.

...are allowed to force gliders up in flagrant violation of the hated FAA regulations regarding minimums and...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/20 22:25:38 UTC

Something to bear in mind... the tug's weaklink is three strand.
For clarity... A normal single loop weaklink would be considered two. A tandem double loop is considered four.
In the tandem setup, the "weaklink" in the system is at the tug end, not the glider.

...flagrantly violate the hated FAA regulations concerning front end weak link strength and use their fuzzy little pieces of crap to neutralize any attempt a glider might make to hit a legal minimum and minimize his chances of ending up as...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=865
Tandem pilot and passenger death

Mike Van Kuiken - 2005/10/13 19:47:26 UTC

The weak link broke from the tow plane side. The towline was found underneath the wreck, and attached to the glider by the weaklink. The glider basically fell on the towline.

...a smoking heap of heap of wreckage on top of a towline.

Idiot fucking Rooney Link or idiot fucking Rooney Harmonizer manually performing the function of the idiot fucking Rooney Link...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


...the results are pretty much the same.

You wanna do something useful for this sport on the engineering front? Read the article Trisa article in the June issue and write a review - as any responsible hang glider pilot, especially one with an aeronautical engineering degree, shoulda done already. Mine's at least a couple dozen rather extensive posts long.

But any one of these:

Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45 UTC

I just cannot fathom how our sport can be so screwed up.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26302
HIGHER EDUCATION ?

michael170 - 2012/06/06 03:14:26 UTC

Did anyone here bother to read Drs. Lisa Colletti and Tracy Tillman's thirteen page idiotic article in the June issue of USHPA's worthless magazine?

NMERider - 2012/06/06 03:25:09 UTC

You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are. Pardon me while I puke.

Mike Lake - 2012/06/09 00:25:14 UTC

Cone of safety, flying with a fin is better for your weak-link, too many other examples from the last few pages.
What a load of shit.
Who are these people?

Nobody - 2012/06/09 22:38:46 UTC

Congratulations Tracy, you made it to the podium of USHPA's top ranked idiots.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27073
Hang Gliding Training Manual by Dennis Pagan

Rodger Hoyt - 2012/09/07 00:42:10 UTC

Yes, I would recommend just about ANY manual other than Pagen.

michael170 - 2012/09/09 05:25:48 UTC

Dennis Pagen is full of shit, how's that?

comments is worth way more to the sport than a thousand such vector diagrams.

P.S. Scathing comments are an inevitable and rather mild consequence of the kinda crap you pulled at the end of last year and your lunatic attitude that any asshole so inclined should be able to violate any regulations he feels like and go up with any bent pin piece of shit he fancies.

P.P.S. Make sure you read the post just above this one - especially the quote from one of your former Bob Show members.
-
http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1146
Tow Force Diagram with "V" Bridle

[Tad Eareckson]

Bob Kuczewski - 2012/09/13 22:50:49 UTC

Hi Tad,

I updated the post to show an animation where the "depth" of the "V" is varied and the resulting line tension is shown.

The values were calculated with a Java program that I've included below for your enjoyment.

Bob Kuczewski - 2012/09/13 22:57:57 UTC

P.S. The animation shows the line tensions varying between fairly reasonable values (0.51 times tow force) up through fairly unreasonable values (like 10 times the tow force). It's unlikely that anyone would configure a bridle in the "10 times" configuration, but it would not be uncommon for someone to vary the length enough to go from the 0.51 factor up to the 0.6 or even 0.75 factors. That's a considerable range (up to an additional 50%) which could be very important when choosing the proper weak link.

Bob...
They're nice graphics, they're cool, it's cool that you can do this stuff, I appreciate it.
But if you think they're gonna make the slightest difference out in the real world you are totally detached from reality.
Again, those force diagrams are ONLY useful for two point aerotowing.

...but it would not be uncommon for someone to vary the length...

You're right. It wouldn't be uncommon. It would be absolutely unheard of.

ALL two point bridles form apex angles of around sixty degrees - just like ALL release pins are bent. Aerotow people are stupid herd animals. Whether they're heading to better grazing or stampeding over a cliff they're all gonna be moving in the same direction at the same speed.

Take half, add fifteen percent of half. Or don't add fifteen percent of half. If you shoot for the middle of the range fifteen percent one way or the other isn't that important. The legal range is plus or minus 43 percent.

...when choosing the proper weak link.

People DO NOT CHOOSE PROPER WEAK LINKS.

They have no fuckin' clue what a weak link is, let alone a proper one.

- They're handed a "standard aerotow weak link" by some fucking asshole like Bill Moyes, Bobby Bailey, Malcolm Jones, Dave Glover, Rhett Radford, Bo Hagewood, Russell Brown, Mitch Shipley, Steve Wendt, Adam Elchin, Sunny Venesky, Jim Rooney, Paul Tjaden, Lauren Tjaden, Matt Taber, or Dr. Trisa Tilletti on Day One, Flight One.

- Four seconds later the imprinting process is complete.

- After that it doesn't matter how many times you point out that they're flying the same weak link as somebody 150 pounds lighter, times they watch gliders crash, downtubes and/or arms they break, or fingernails you pull out. They WILL NOT under ANY circumstances go to 129 or 131 pound Greenspot because they don't want to be test pilots.

- And even if someone did your buddy Rooney wouldn't allow him to hook up and would lecture him about professional pilots, track records, depths of experience, and proven systems until he threw himself into a spinning Dragonfly propellor.

We need to:
- teach people what a weak link is
- teach people how they've been getting systematically lied to and fucked over by the industry
- triple or quadruple the strength of this shit that's routinely blowing at normal tow tensions
- get into circulation releases that will handle the loads
- get rid of idiot Bobby's idiot tow mast breakaway and get the tugs up to legal ratings
- get some of the pieces of shit responsible for this decades long atrocity criminally prosecuted

If you're not helping with at least some of the above you're wasting your, my, and everyone else's time.

If you do help with some of that you can forget about winning any popularity contests or being welcome at Wallaby but history might remember you as something other than a zero or negative number.

[miguel]

I thought Bob's gif was easy to understand.
Even though math proofs hurt my brain, it is good to see you all put numbers behind your proofs. Way better than 'This is how we have always done it.'

[Tad Eareckson]

It's EXCELLENT! And TOTALLY USELESS!

If you understand that force diagram, what a weak link is, and what weak link you should be using to maximize your safety on tow so your last landing of the afternoon won't look like THIS:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


it won't matter. EVERY TIME you hook up behind a Dragonfly you WILL BE taking several unnecessary risks of having your landing look like that 'cause the only force diagram that matters is THIS ONE:

Tom Lanning - 2005/01/10

However, the meet directors are forcing us to use their weak links.

So you're right back to 'This is how we have always done it' with or without Bob's force diagram. And 'This is how we have always done it' dates back to 1980/12 when Donnell Hewett submitted for publication in the magazine the rot he dreamt up when reality started cramping his style.

If you're not forced to use THEIR weak links on YOUR end you WILL BE forced to use their weak links on THEIR end. And THEIR weak links have a long track record which includes lotsa crashes and several kills.

I need Bob to help me fix the force diagram that's most likely to get me killed but he won't lift a finger 'cause he's got this lunatic Tea Party fantasy that everything will naturally evolve towards a state of Utopian perfection if the tow operations are all allowed totally unregulated free market competition. And anybody with an IQ over the low double digits knows that that's a force diagram for a race to the bottom.

Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45 UTC

I just cannot fathom how our sport can be so screwed up.

And anybody too stupid to understand that that's a force diagram for a race to the bottom can just look at what's been going on with aerotowing for the past couple of decades.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27275
Regional Director Accountability

Paul Murdoch (pmurdoch) - 2012/10/05 23:55:06 UTC

Paul Murdoch - 74517 - P4 - 2007/10/29 - Rick Ray - FL ST TFL CL FSL HA RLF RS TUR XC

Okay...

SG,

I don't think there was much support for he-who-must-not-be-named in the previous dialog. In fact, it was the opposite.

But I have to say, this bit.

Threads about him , or links to him in any way will be deleted.

No commentary necessary. I have no interest in debating this or taking part in this discussion. This thread will be locked if the Bob crap continues.

is all the more ironic when followed by this bit:

"Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."

"Ironic" is a pretty mild term for it - given Jack's record of atrocities, don't ya think?

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/10/06 00:01:49 UTC

I told you I didnt want to discuss this.

There is nothing ironic about the Jefferson quote. His quote is about government. This is a private forum and my private property. Now if I was the Obama administration, you would have a point.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me, Jack. You just believe in freedom, conscientiousness, principles on the government level and as much cowardly sleaziness as you can get away with on the private.

But im allowed to set the rules in my home and the rules are: no Bob *BULLSHIT* here. I wouldnt complain if one of my religious friends asked me to leave if I kept preaching atheism in his home every time I came over either. He sets the house rules and I respect them. His home is NOT a public square.

Then this:

Please treat the admin as a regular user. As long as you follow the rules, there is NO CHANCE you will banned because you disagree with the admin. The admin would like to be part of this community too without having to walk on egg shells because people think his word holds more weight for whatever reason. It does not. But the admin will do his job as moderator when he has to. But please follow the rules and don't make him do it, he doesn't enjoy that part. :)

is a total load of crap - just like Bob's mission statement, right Jack?

It's a shame you two couldn't have gotten along better - but I guess there's only enough room for one incompetent hypocritical backstabbing lying control freak per forum when you're trying to run a successful con game.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27275
Regional Director Accountability

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/10/06 01:57:33 UTC

Quoting the site rules:

Quoting YOUR site "RULES" - "rules" which you make up, pretend have meaning, and selectively enforce, bend, and break whenever it suits you.

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED.

There are rules over here, Jack - and they're very leniently enforced. Lemme quote 'em for ya:

The purpose of Kite Strings is to foster serious discussion regarding the practices and technologies of modern hang gliding. This is a forum ruled by science, truth, facts, reason, and logic. Anyone with a respect for these principles and a willingness to learn and engage in rational discussion is welcome to participate.

The forum is still in its infancy, so we don't have much in the way of structure or posting rules. Until we're large enough to have a need for more, all topics will be under a single forum. As for rules, just keep it civil, stay on topic, keep topics in line with the forum purpose, and don't lie or misrepresent others' statements.

You quoted a BobK attack on me.

So?

Might as well invite him back to do it himself.

What? You can't handle an attack from Bob? I can dice him up in my sleep. If you weren't such a total piece of shit I could show you how to do it.

As far as enforcement the rules and attacks are concerned over here...

Peter Birren would be more than welcome to come over here and call one of the two people with ban buttons a(n):

Fuckin' coward
ignorant coward
ignorant slut
coward
Asswipe!
Coward
Big talker
Superior Pilot who never makes a mistake!

as he did on The Bob Show without the relevant button wielder batting an eye 'cause I'm not afraid of the motherfucker and whenever he opens his mouth on a technical issue I can tear him to shreds.

I did ban Bob off of here because he has zilch in the way of:
- respect for science, truth, facts, reason, and logic
- a willingness to learn and engage in rational discussion
lies like a rug, and has a major passion for misrepresenting statements and sabotaging discussions.

And I also banned his protégé Sam for all of the above plus the fact that he's got another hundred million years of evolution to go before he makes it up to dog shit.

But I'm not such a paranoid egomaniacal coward that I have the kinds of insane rules you do and - save for spam - I've never deleted a post or altered one other than to improve readability.

And I absolutely THRIVE on posts and material from slimeballs like you and Davis and the dregs from your Paul Hurless, Dennis Wood, Craig Hassan, Richard Bryant caliber "community" and really encourage people to bring them to everyone's attention. Read this post as a case in point.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=463
Davis Straub's "Oz Report" Conflict of Interest

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/03/09 02:33:49 UTC

This is going to sound cold, but I believe people have a right to make their own choices. I don't want a "nanny state" where anyone is telling me what I can and can't do ... for my own good. The sport of hang gliding would surely not exist if that thinking were carried to its logical extreme. There's something bred into all living things that urges them toward taking some degree of risk in their lives. Those who want to forbid that risk are essentially snuffing out the human spirit itself. I can't support that. I do support information. I support good information. I support exposing bad information. But I don't support dictating what anyone can or can't do. The fundamental principle of economics (and evolution) is two words: "people choose".

FAA - Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge

Chapter 17: Aeronautical Decision-Making

The Five Hazardous Attitudes

1. Anti-Authority: "Don't tell me."

This attitude is found in people who do not like anyone telling them what to do. In a sense, they are saying, "No one can tell me what to do." They may be resentful of having someone tell them what to do, or may regard rules, regulations, and procedures as silly or unnecessary.

That's how come you shouldn't even have a rating, Bob, let alone be trying to head up a hang gliding organization. You'd rather spend four months fighting a regulation requiring a hook-in check just prior to launch than spend one second just doing the fucking hook-in check just prior to launch.

There's a last sentence in that Anti-Authority paragraph:

However, it is always your prerogative to question authority if you feel it is in error.

But you don't even question the authority because you feel it is in error. You do a preflight check of your connection in the staging area then move to launch and run off forty-five seconds later with no hook-in check just to show your contempt for the rules, regulations, and procedures.