instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27127
Aerotow at LMFP

Tom Lyon - 2012/09/14 07:53:55 UTC
Michigan

Hi,

I'm mostly interested in aerotow and am thinking of taking a vacation to LMFP to take their course. I had thought of LMFP as more of a mountain site than aerotow, but it's within driving distance for me (for a vacation anyway) and it looks like a cool place to spend some time.

I thought of Wallaby and Quest as well, but they are a lot farther away.

Any thoughts? Has anyone aerotowed at LMFP?

Thanks!

http://i.imgur.com/tt379.jpg


I'd go with either Lockout or Florida Ridge. Those are probably the two sleaziest and if you can survive either one you can probably survive anywhere.

Recommend you get your equipment from Lockout. That'll give you the best experience using your backup release and hook knife.

For weak link failure recovery practice all the parks are equally good.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27127
Aerotow at LMFP

David W. Johnson - 2012/09/14 12:03:15 UTC
Huntsville, Alabama

I learned at LMFP. Great staff. Great vibe there. No complaints at all.

Nah.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction

Antoine Saraf - 2011/07/14 08:33:59 UTC

LMFP release dysfunction

LMFP RELEASE
U$139.95
http://estore.hanglide.com/Aerotow_Primary_Release_p/14-9004.htm

After several dysfunctions encountered by tandem, using a V-bridle and a 145kg wl on the apex, so a maximum load of 83kg on this primary release, I sent 3 times this email to fly@hanglide.com (LMFP contact) without any answer !!!

No complaints at all.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=4171
Have you ever blown a launch?

David W. Johnson - 2007/11/05 00:57:23 UTC

Just so you will know, blowing a launch is probably not the worst feeling in the world.

My fourteen year old daughter's first mountain launch went wrong. I got to watch her fall forty feet into the trees.

Everything turned out alright. She bruised her knee and even the glider wasn't badly hurt, but I have never posted the video on the net out of concern for the sport.

And hardly any reports of incidents - out of concern for the sport.

However, the mountain does provide rotor that can be challenging sometimes. This time of year, it could hamper your attempts to learn. Check the weather reports and see what's going on. If the wind is coming over the back of Lookout, which it often is, the rotor can be really rough.

Wallaby is the bomb.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17092
Crash at Questair

Alfie Norks - 2010/06/03 12:24:40 UTC
Brazil

Speedy recovery to the pilot in question.
It could have been worse. It could have happened at...the other place (but nothing happens there. ) Good luck if it does. No 911 calls allowed. My friend was lucky, the nurse on hand convinced the owner not to move him, this after he snatched and threw her phone away. She was trying to dial 911. My friend suffered lower back injury.

The vibe there is even better than LMFP. It is very restful. The routine is predictable and very conducive to learning.

And as long as you don't think too much about WHAT you're learning, you'll be quite happy.

The air seems to want you to learn to fly. No rotor. Smooth as silk in the mornings and then again in the afternoons. In between, if the thermals make it worthwhile, flying cranks back up. Breakfast and a late lunch are served right there and the company is great.

If your standards are low enough.

While I love LMFP, if I had to do it over, I would learn aerotow at Wallaby.

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots

The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2012/09/14

If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.

Remember: it is almost impossible to stall under aerotow. The induced thrust vector makes the glider trim at a higher attitude. It is OK to push way out; you will climb, not stall.

Stay with the tug using pitch input. If you are low, PUSH OUT!

Again, check the weather. If a front moves in and kills the flying, it would be a bummer.

The weather might not be your biggest problem down there.

Christopher LeFay - 2012/09/14 12:21:39 UTC

In addition to what David said about possible/likely adverse air conditions, the field at Lookout is surrounded by trees. In good conditions, that is only a consideration- in less than that, a threat; towing low over trees sucks.

Not really.

Lockout Mountain Flight Park - 2009/07/12

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link.

They recommend using a standard aerotow weak link - at this time - to really increase the safety of the towing operation.

Still, a busy day at Lookout will see 90+ airtowns...

Extra safe airtowns.

...and a legion of airtow pilots have graduated from there.

Really makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up, don't it?

And some of the best hang checkers...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/message/8918
Martin Apopot Status

Mark DeMarino - 2010/01/18 00:04

Martin Apopot Status

Martin made five to six good strides with glider lifting off with him straight and level. His speed might have been a little slow and he bounced off the ground on his wheels, then lifted up about three to four feet and then did it again, then continued to climb. His climb out was smooth, straight, and level with no apparent issue.

Upon reaching 100 to 125 feet he released and, at this point, slid down the downtubes to base. I said to myself "oh shit, he's not hooked in".

...in the sport.

Scheduling a vacation and hopping for good weather at Lookout is a gamble that might prompt you to make marginalized decisions.

If you've gone to Lookout you've already made a marginalized decision.

Go without a time agenda, or with the flexibility to check the forecast first.

While my first choice would be someplace flat like Florida (Quest, Wallaby, whatever)...

Some places in Florida...

http://vimeo.com/1833509


http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=5089
The Good-The Bad-The Ugly....

Socrates Zayas - 2008/01/14 05:22:38 UTC

When I got there her nose was lacerated and her lip was bleeding (yeah, she had a full face helmet) and the dolly's left wheel was missing.

...are flatter than others.

I wonder why you aren't considering an airtow outfit closer to home? Like, in your state, or whatever?

He's probably read Dr. Trisa Tilletti's "Higher Education" series of articles in the magazine.

If you need to bribe your family with theme parks in Orlando, then by all means, head down to that glorified sand bar- otherwise, I don't see the percentage in visiting the Strip Mall State.

Something closer to home:
http://www.skydogsports.com/dfsc/index.htm
http://www.birrendesign.com/rhgpa_sites.html

Larry Brill - 2012/09/14 12:35:41 UTC
Haslett, Michigan

Hey Jackie

I live in Michigan also and Cloud 9 near Stockbridge Michigan is an option...

Not one I'd ever care for.

...but you probably know that already. Tracy and Lisa are really the professors of Aero Tow...

And how do you know?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26302
HIGHER EDUCATION ?

NMERider - 2012/06/06 03:25:09 UTC

You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are. Pardon me while I puke.

Oh, yeah.

...having been on the towing committee...

Actually...

Zack C - 2012/06/03 18:09:54 UTC

I also asked him about the Towing Committee...I figured it was somewhat formal with a fixed number of positions but he said it was just the chair and whoever he wanted to be on it.

Having been the Towing Committee.

...and setting up many of the standards for Aero Tow.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1184

Larry Jorgensen - 2011/02/17 13:37:47 UTC
Air Adventures NW
Spanaway, Washington

It did not come from the FAA, it came from a USHPA Towing Committee made up of three large aerotow operations that do tandems for hire.

Appalling.

Yep. Setting the standards to make them money and gutting the standards...

Aerotow Equipment Requirements

Aerotow Equipment Guidelines

...which protect the glider pilot.

I have towed out of LMFP and it is also a very professional operation with very experienced instructors and has a variety of training including two training hills, which no matter how experienced you are it is good to brush up on launching and landing.

And flying upright - so you'll be ready the from the moment you leave the ramp to land on your feet.

Matt Taber who runs LMFP is a great guy who works very hard every day to run a safe operation.

Yeah...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=20756
How is Zach Etheridge doing?

Bob Flynn - 2011/02/04 11:26:34 UTC

Lookout keeps this kind of stuff under their hat. You never hear of accidents there. But every time I go there, I hear about quite a few. Blown launches, tree landings, etc.

Right. Matt works very hard every day to give the illusion of running a safe operation. He works five times as hard giving the illusion of running a safe operation as he'd hafta work running an operation. Lot more fun that way.

He went out of his way to personally make sure I had everything I needed when I was down there.

- New Lockout Mountain Flight Park Release which isn't warranted as suitable for towing anything.

- Bent pin backup release which also isn't warranted as suitable for towing anything for when your New Lockout Mountain Flight Park Release doesn't work.

- 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link for when your bent pin backup release.

- Hook knife for when your 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link doesn't work.

- Cloud Chaser helmet for when your hook knife doesn't work.

It is also a beautiful place to fly and to take a vacation with lots of tourist sites.

You do need calm conditions to learn in but after a few solo tows you want to experience more turbulence.

Not with the crap you'll be using for equipment.

Towing in turbulence is a whole new challenge.

Got that right.

I am an pilot for a Major Airline and have 1000 hours of Sailplane time including time as a tow pilot...

Hey, maybe you could explain to us why sailplane tugs use heavier weak links than the gliders they're towing and why sailplane weak links never blow.

...and I have to say that flying on an older topless glider in turbulence on tow is one of the most challenging things I have done in aviation.

Maybe you should take a couple of tandem flights with Dr. Trisa Tilletti to help you understand all about the Cone of Safety.

Tom Lyon - 2012/09/14 16:27:16 UTC

Thanks, everyone.

Not everyone. Just the people Jack allows you to hear.

Very good advice. I also noticed the trees and went to YouTube to watch a few aerotows at LMFP to see how high they get by the end of the runway.

Sometimes they do OK.

Other times...

http://i.imgur.com/tt379.jpg

Joey Quillen - 2011/02/04 01:34:54 UTC
Nashville

Does anyone know how Zach Etheridge fared after his accident late last year? He was being aerotowed at LMFP when his line released near the end of the LZ. He unsuccessfully tried to recover from the stall and turn around to land. He impacted and went unconscious. I happened to be across the LZ with some friends and we ran out to help, but he was out cold.

I tried calling the hospital but could never get through. Does anyone have any info on his status?

...they could stand to be a little higher.

It's not fun to be low on tow over unlandable terrain...

Yeah, but...

Everyone who lives dies, yet not everyone who dies, has lived. We take these risks not to escape life, but to prevent life escaping us.

...it just adds so much more to your enjoyment of the flight when you're able to pull it off.

(I'm a low-time, licensed glider pilot).

Hey, maybe you could explain to us why sailplane tugs use heavier weak links than the gliders they're towing and why sailplane weak links never blow.

I absolutely will fly with Tracy and Lisa at Cloud 9. I know that they have one of the best schools in the country/world.

Yeah, they do. The problem is that all of them totally suck.

However, I won't be able to get away from work this year until they have closed for the season and I don't want to wait until next spring to get started.

Thanks again. This is just the advice I what hoping to receive.

Yeah, people on this forum and in this sport are really great at telling you what you wanna hear.

And I am also well aware of the importance of not getting myself into a "Must fly, I took a vacation to do it!" situation.

I'm not sure that it matters that much. You go up behind a Dragonfly with Industry Standard equipment and you're rolling dice no matter what.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!

Ryan Voight - 2012/09/26 14:23:55 UTC

Running to the right = weight shift to the right.

Bull fucking shit.

It's all about what the glider feels.

Yeah? So what's the glider feeling through its wires?

Running to the right pulls the hang loop to the right, just like when you weight shift at 3,000 ft. Glider doesn't know or care what means you used to pull the hang loop to the right.

You getting this down, Sam?

If you're boat towing someone and the glider starts rolling to the left you wanna turn hard to the starboard and hit the gas. That'll pull the hang loop to the right, just like when the guy weight shifts at three thousand feet. That'll level the glider right out - just as...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

Dr. Lionel D. Hewitt, professor of physics and developer of the 2-to-1 center-of-mass Skyting bridle for surface towing, is well respected for his knowledge of towing, bridles, and weak links...

...Dr. Lionel D. Hewett, professor of physics and developer of the 2-to-1 center-of-mass Skyting bridle for surface towing and well respected for his knowledge of towing, bridles, and weak links explains near the end of the 1982/09 issue of his Skyting newsletter:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post2625.html#p2625

michael170 - 2012/09/26 19:52:56 UTC

Are you sure about that, Ryan?

OF COURSE HE'S SURE ABOUT THAT, ASSHOLE. He's a goddam top notch USHGA *INSTRUCTOR* and a highly qualified Wills Wing dealer - second generation on both counts as a matter of fact.

So who the fuck are you?

Ryan Voight - 2012/09/26 20:05:16 UTC

You were never taught to run toward the lifting wing?

- Not with my hands in my pockets.

- I don't think I was taught to run toward the lifting wing or needed to be.

-- The idea is to take off into the wind - which, hopefully, will be coming in reasonably straight up the ramp.

-- The wing that's lifting is gonna be the one with the crosswind hitting it more perpendicularly. I can already think of two real good reasons not to run towards the low wing.

Yes, I'm sure.

I can (and have) run across a field and steer the glider without ever touching the DT's by simply changing the direction I run. At the beach (or South Side) I like to practice kiting my wing with no hands, and just moving my hips (and stepping if necessary) left/right.

The glider is yaw stable and will yaw into the wind and you may be able to keep the thing floating for a while by dancing around getting relative airspeeds to do something for you but otherwise...

Pulling the hang loop to the right is pulling the hang loop to the right- glider don't care if you're dangling beneath it or still touching the ground. As long as your mains are tight, you can weight shift it!

Moron.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC

It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.

During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?

Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release

Tad Eareckson - 2009/11/03 15:28:14 UTC

Yeah, at fifteen hundred feet everything works just great. In the kind of situation in which it matters however...

Lemme tell ya a couple of things...

Rarely after lockouts are terminated by a release or weak link or tow line failure does the glider just "fly away". Go back and read Dennis's accounts or run it by John Woiwode or Dullahan or Holly Korzilius if you want other opinions. I could give ya lots more references but most of them are dead.

When the tow line goes slack at the end of a typical lockout the glider is severely stalled and severely rolled. And in the time leading up to that point the pilot will have been stuffing the bar and shoving it to one side or the other in order to get his angle of attack back down to something survivable and get his wings level so he doesn't cartwheel when the ground flies back up at him.

And you want him to operate his neatsy keeno Greenspot hands free release by INCREASING his pitch attitude!?! That's great advice for winning an aerobatics competition - and an almost sure fire recipe for getting a tow pilot killed instantly.

And you're TEACHING this stuff?

And you're TEACHING this CRAP?

The responsibilities of a Wills Wing HANG GLIDER DEALER include:

A) Offering competent, safe instruction in the proper and safe use of hang gliding equipment.

Mike, Steve... I take it you guys on board with this?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!

Doug Doerfler - 2012/09/27 07:26:01 UTC

In this case Ryan has no idea what he is talking about.

Well yeah, but...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18868
Almost lockout

Ryan Voight - 2010/09/07 02:50:00 UTC

Weak link in truck towing WILL (read: should) still break in a lockout situation... but as everyone has already pointed out, it takes a lot longer because the glider can continue to pull line off the winch.

There is a limit to how fast line can come off the winch though... so the forces still build up, and the weaklink still fails.

16-2812


Since when has that ever been an impediment to posting on The Jack Show?

As a matter of fact...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!

NMERider - 2012/09/25 14:21:38 UTC

But what we have in excess here on the Org is generally referred to as a mutual masturbation society. That's where pilots get together and sit around and just jack each other off. That's what I see here in spades.

...if you DO know what you're talking about...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/09 14:44:23 UTC

AT, your continual bashing in general and bashing of HG schools has gotten really old. AT parks have solid safety records, so what you say and reality seem to be quite far apart.

You dominate the ignore report here:

http://www.hanggliding.org/ignorereport.php

Ever ask yourself why???

You do nothing but bring negativity here. My finger is on the ban button.
This is your last warning.

If you continue rubbing everyone the wrong way with your harsh, know it all tone, you are out of here.

...you're gonna be considered a know-it-all, rub everyone the wrong way, dominate the ignore report, and get the gooey finger from the Mutual Masturbator In Chief. So cut Ryan some slack - I think he's striking something pretty close to the ideal fifty/fifty balance and is really excellent at rubbing everyone the right way.

In straight level flight to turn to the right you do not magically just move you body to the right, the only way your body moves right is by pulling the control frame left...

Which tensions the starboard sidewire and slackens the port and works A LOT like aileron control - both in actuation and effect.

...because of inertia of the wing your body moves over some but gravity is always trying to pull your body back.

You can think of it as your body staying still and you are pulling the right wing down to turn right.

EXACTLY - through the WIRES.

When your feet are still planted on the ramp your can run to the right side of the control frame without pulling the right side of the control frame down... and that is exactly what happened in this launch.

And if the strap gets pulled to the right without any input to/through the control frame and wires you're gonna accelerate to the left.

P.S. Really gratifying to note that after the better part of three years since being found guilty of willful competence by the Mutual Masturbator In Chief I've still got a near fifty percent lead over the Number 2 slot on the Ignore list.

[Steve Davy]

Yesterday, I had an opportunity to test Ryan's hypothesis.

In smooth coastal wind I got the glider floating and balanced, let go of the downtubes and ran in a direction approximately thirty degrees from the direction the keel was pointed. In each case the glider slowly rolled opposite to the direction I chose.

The second test was to get wings balanced, wait a moment for one to lift, then run in that direction. In the second test I found the glider would immediately and aggressively roll opposite to Ryan's idiotic hypothesis.

I did about twenty short runs, same result each run.

[Tad Eareckson]

That's YOUR opinion of what happened.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1129
Elmira, Binghampton, NY HG Email list Hijacked

Bob Kuczewski - 2012/09/23 19:38:00 UTC

I have also missed the community of pilots there, but one by one I'm working to bring them to this new site where all points of view can be heard.

Ryan's opinion of what happens when he does it may be different but it's every bit as valid.

[miguel]

Yesterday, I had an opportunity to test Ryan's hypothesis.

In smooth coastal wind I got the glider floating and balanced, let go of the downtubes and ran in a direction approximately thirty degrees from the direction the keel was pointed. In each case the glider slowly rolled opposite to the direction I chose.

The second test was to get wings balanced, wait a moment for one to lift, then run in that direction. In the second test I found the glider would immediately and aggressively roll opposite to Ryan's idiotic hypothesis.

I did about twenty short runs, same result each run.

Running towards the high wing would and thrust/energy to the high wing leading to the above?

[Tad Eareckson]

I think that sentence needs a little work but...
- All the glider knows as far as pilot control is concerned is what it's feeling through the suspension and wires.
- If the pilot isn't pushing/pulling left/right/forwards/backwards on the control frame there's no differential wire tension / weight shift.
- The glider then is only interpreting the tension and direction it's feeling through the hang strap as a contributor to the gravity vector.
- If you run:
-- forward the glider will feel gravity pulling stronger from the front and fly faster and trim nose up
-- to the right the glider will feel gravity pulling from the right and try to "level" itself accordingly and roll left

Ten year old kids with kites figure out these dynamics pretty quickly.

I don't know what the hell game Ryan's playing at but somebody should request a video showing just what he's doing to reverse Newtonian physics.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27243
First flight on Sport 2

Jesse Yoder - 2012/09/28 23:30:11 UTC
Arlington, Virginia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLWpsgx8IE


Went to Woodstock today to look over and test-fly a Sport 2 155 which I ended up purchasing. After setting it up and getting the hang of the tip wands and all (got one stuck behind the lever and had to unbolt it to get it out), I gave it a look-over and then got on launch. The forecasted 7-10 mph never showed, just a trickle of air moving up the slot. After waiting a bit and getting a feel for the glider, I said thanks and cya to Hank and launched for my first mountain flight on a double surface glider!

Yeah, Hank. Hank Hengst.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1149
Team Challenge: Daily Update Thread

Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/04 13:03:47 UTC

Tuesday morning...

Daniel, Linda and I all left yesterday, and are back in Richmond now after a long drive home. I wanted to fly in Tennessee, and hoped after a day of reflection and the passage of time I'd be in a better frame of mind. It never happened. Night before last, I awoke in my hammock in the middle of the night, and in the dark silence could only think of Bill. His fatal launch just kept rolling over and over in my head like a cursed video.

Daniel thought he might be able to fly too, but like me, he realized it was impossible. Rance, Bruce, Hank, and Karma are still there. I hope they all flew high and far yesterday!

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1152
Bill Priday's death

Cragin Shelton - 2005/10/03 15:13:27 UTC

I just read the following item from the OzForum by a secondary on-site (not witness) report:

According to at least five local pilots, Bill had set up his glider and was moving it closer to launch. Again, according to at least five pilots, Bill was asked if he wanted a hang check, but was heard to say "It has been taken care of".

This is eerie, because Hank H. and I were involved with an almost identical conversation with Bill at the Pulpit (McConnellsburg) Fly-In. As we were walking Bill up to the old ramp, with me on right wing and Hank on nose, Hank asked Bill if he wanted a hang check. Bill's reply was something like, "No thanks, I'm good." Hank then pointed out that he was not hooked in. I remarked that 'You are not hooked in until after the hang check.' We ran Bill through a routine lay-down hang check at the back of the ramp, and he had a fine launch.

Guess you had Hank run you through a routine lay-down hang check at the back of the ramp at some point before the camera started running and recorded your fine launch.

Being only a sled run, I didn't have a lot of time to get used to how the glider turns and trims out, but I did what I could.

Who gives a flying fuck? For the purpose of the exercise you were dead at around 0:15.

Some things I quickly noticed were that the bar position is a little farther forward than on my Falcon. This threw me a bit, as it was hard to get a feel for trim when my brain kept telling me the glider was going to stall at that bar position. Maybe it actually is trimmed too slow, as it did seem to porpoise a bit when I let it go to trim. Might have to move the king post forward a setting. I hook in at about 185 pounds. How does that compare to you other Sport 2 155 owners?

What's it matter? The hook-in range for that glider is 150 to 250 - so you're fifteen percent up from the bottom end.

Another thing I realized right away was that I couldn't half-ass my control inputs. The glider tracks straight and doesn't roll out of turns as readily as the Falcon. Turns are fun! It's awesome how the glider just hangs in the banked turn without much effort.

Last thing: Boy it has a lot more glide! I knew I needed to plan a lower approach than I'm used to on the Falcon, but I still ended up underestimating the glide and sink rate on the basically no-wind day.

Yeah, ain't it great the way entry level gliders and your instructors teach you that it's OK to waste runway in pursuit of the spot at the middle of the field.

I overshot and had to land crosswind which wasn't too much of an issue except that it didn't give me time to get completely level and feel the flare window.

- You actually DID have time to get completely level and you got it adequately level.

- Fuck the flare window. You'd have had a better, smoother, softer, safer landing if you had stayed fully prone, left your hands on the basetube, and bellied in.

I ended up on knees and wheels, but it wasn't too violent.

- It doesn't HAVE TO BE too violent to get your season ended early or practically before it starts. Ask Allen. Or contact me and I'll send you copies of videos of a couple of his landings which had rather minor imperfections and major consequences.

- Hey miguel... It appears that nobody's told him to, before contact with whatever, let go of one or both downtubes. Maybe you should post something.

Time to go to the training hill and figure out if I need to adjust the hang point...

Why don't you just set the trim a notch faster, go back to Woodstock or McConnellsburg, and give it a shot?

...and then really get dialed in on the landings.

Ya know what, Jesse... People spend their entire hang gliding careers attempting to really get dialed in on their foot landings. If you do it you'll be the forth person in the history of the sport to achieve that kind of success. You'll follow in the Sacred Footsteps of Paul and Ryan Voight, Jason Boehm, and Jim Rooney. But if you fall short of that level of godliness - the way that people like Davis Straub, Mike Meier, Steve Pearson, NMERider, and Allen Sparks have - it ain't NEVER gonna happen.

I don't want to flying into a bubbly LZ until I get that sorted out.

There is no way in hell...

http://ozreport.com/8.133
The European Championships at Millau

Gerolf Heinrichs - 2004/06/24

Bad news from the Europeans in Millau - and it's not just about the weather!

This is the major hang gliding event of the season and was expected to be the highlight of the European competition flying. Due to a most competent organising team around meet director Richard Walbec everybody expected only the very best from it.

Now, one task into the meet we are all hanging our heads as we just get confirmation about the fatal accident of Croatian team pilot Ljubomir Tomaskovic. He apparently encountered some strong turbulences on his landing approach. He got pitched up and turned around from a strong gust at low altitude, then impacted tailwind into some treetops from where he fell hard onto the ground.

...you're EVER gonna get that sorted out.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!

Ryan Voight - 2012/09/25 05:59:51 UTC

You see... the human shoulder limits how far you can pull in. Prone or upright, you can really only get your hands back about even with your shoulders.

It's the EXACT SAME PROBLEM as this "protow" bullshit. If you put your hands in arm break position for landing or elect not to take advantage of a keel attachment point for aerotow you can kiss a huge portion of your upper speed range goodbye.

And lemme tell ya sumpin', Jesse... Aerotow launches and landings in bubbly conditions are two times when you don't wanna be flushing upper speed range down the toilet - no matter how many Hang Four and Five assholes you see doing and hear preaching it.

Compare/Contrast...

- You start moving your hands to arm break position thirty-one seconds before the glider's stopped and you blow your landing.

- Allen starts moving his hands to arm break position six-seconds before the glider's stopped and - although he has a pretty good landing - he rips his other shoulder apart, ends his season, and puts another load on our already overburdened health care system.

- Steve Pearson...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...who, rather freakishly in this sport, is more concerned about stopping his glider safely than impressing everyone with a stunt landing...

http://vimeo.com/36062225


...leaves his hands in glider control position until four seconds before the glider's stopped and two seconds before he flares. And note that he can pretty safely flare at that point because he...
- has left his hands in glider control position almost to the very end of the flight
- is not in any air that is gonna hand him any surprises
- has the glider under excellent control

And then you've got your Doug Prather types:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Gd2kcyOes

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http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7094/13952342741_f71f343877_o.png


http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7151/13952329131_03e535bc8b_o.png
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So Jesse... Would you rather spend your time at Taylor hauling your Sport 2 up the hill pretending to be getting your stunt landings sorted out to the point at which they're safe or using your glider at Woodstock for the purpose for which it was intended - exploiting thousands of feet worth of thermals and waves, forty-five miles worth of ridge, and virtually unlimited downwind potential?

P.S.

- I've spent A LOT of time at Woodstock and done a A LOT of landings in the primary and at points all along the ridge from Strasburg to Harrisonburg and a fair number over the back and there is ZERO need for standup landings in that neck of the woods.

- I had a good friend killed at Taylor trying to get his standup landings sorted out. And in his seventeen years of flying he had never needed and had fairly rarely done standup landings.

Anyone want to buy a Falcon 3 170??

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27243
First flight on Sport 2

Steve Baran - 2012/09/29 00:19:25 UTC
Chattaroy

Nice launch.

Yeah Steve, minimum eight second delay between hook-in check - in the highly unlikely event there was anything remotely resemble one - and commitment. I had no doubt whatsoever that you'd love it.

And nice test flight - liked how you tried out flying off the DTs before you had to land.

How much good did it do him?

I weigh 210 right now and my hook-in is around 230 on my Sport 2 175. I have the kingpost in the forward hole and will likely drill another forward of that. I feel it is trimmed too slow. I'd go forward on yours and give it a try. I started in the middle hole on mine and went forward right away - still flies too slow hands off for me and will porpoise when I let go at a slow speed. I find that I tend to flare too late as opposed to too early on landings - in fact, I've never flared too early yet.

Here's a thought... Why don't you just keep flying it and let it land when it wants to?

Either on the money or on the late side. Trying to improve on that this weekend.

Do let us know when you've perfected your timing.

Paul Edwards - 2012/09/29 00:27:59 UTC
Tennessee

Congratulations man! The Sport 2 is an absolute beauty to fly. Simple at first, but she has hidden layers of fun that you will discover as you get to know her better.

He won't if he breaks an arm or rips a shoulder apart landing or pulls a Priday on launch.

I've only had mine for a year and a half, yet I feel in that time we have learned many new tricks together!

I think I hook in around 210 on my 155. I have the hang point in the forward most hole and it's just a bit above min sink... a few mph above stall. I like it right there. Use the yarn tufts to determine your min sink and stall speeds as described in the manual.

But everyone make sure to keep ignoring what the manual says about incorporating the sidewire load test in the preflight procedure. That could cause something to fail before you get into the air.

Andy Long - 2012/09/29 01:07:19 UTC
California

Addressing one of the challenges of now having more performance, here's a tip on getting your double surface glider into "smaller" LZs.

There ARE NO "smaller" LZs in ANY of the places he flies. That particular primary is huge and brain dead easy and it totally sucks compared to anything else available along that fourteen miles stretch of ridge. But all the asshole instructors in this neck of the woods - and probably any other neck of the woods you can name - teach people to squander the first halves of fields in order to hit traffic cones in their middles. And this guy's instructor is John MIDDLEton, so what would you expect?

You used to be able to create all kinds of drag by pulling in on your Falcon. But you've probably seen, even just from your long ground effect on that one flight, that pulling in isn't going to help much anymore. All you will do is scoot across your LZ faster.

- This pasture is nine hundred feet from the base of the downwind treeline to the upwind end.

- From the base of the downwind treeline to the high point of the field 640 feet upwind there's a 65 foot increase in elevation.

- The landing requirement for a Hang Three candidate who doesn't have a total dickhead for a rating official is to be able to hit a two hundred by forty foot runway aligned into the wind on presumably level ground.

- Jesse's been a Hang Three for almost a year now - and he OBVIOUSLY has no fuckin' clue how to hit a two hundred by forty foot strip.

- Hang Threes who DO have total dickheads for rating officials are supposed to be able to hit a two hundred foot diameter circle three times in a row and he ain't doin' so good on that one neither.

So here's what to start practicing. Start flying imaginary approach patterns into imaginary fields when you are up high but discipline yourself to keep your speed down (don't pull in a lot). What you want to start doing is flying your pattern into LZs while keeping your speed reasonable and constant.

How 'bout the facts that he starts on final a mile high to go significantly downhill, turns onto base still a mile high, and turns onto final a hundred feet over the treetops?

Because if you fly almost all of your pattern right...

He didn't come anywhere CLOSE to flying the pattern right. His pattern totally sucked.

...but then pull in a bit too much to dive it in some on the last turn, you can eat up the whole field with the retained energy that your new double surface glider can now gather in reserve from that speed.

If you do the fuckin' pattern right and scrape those treetops about the time you're going onto final you can do whatever the hell you want speedwise and it won't matter 'cause you'll be below the crest of the LZ. And if you recall some of your glider basics you'll realize that you wouldn't be cresting that rise if your life depended on it.

Also note that he moves his hands from glider control to arm break position thirty seconds prior to impact so pulling in too much is pretty much off the table.

Also, even though you've just got a Sport 2, start thinking about a drag chute.

Get a fuckin' drag chute for the same reason you get a fuckin' helmet, reserve parachute, and weak link - in case you screw the pooch. But there's ZERO excuse for needing one in any of the Capitol area primaries and little on any of the XC routes.

Not as something you use regularly but just as a backup. Nothing more nerve racking that using up your whole LZ and flaring twenty feet from the tree line.

A foot closer to the tops of the trees in the downwind line buys you ten more feet of clearance from the trunks of the trees in the upwind line.

But here's something you can do to avoid all of the above. Just use that extra performance to fly away from where you usually land and pick out a giant LZ somewhere else that you couldn't make before in your Falcon!

- That IS a giant LZ.

- But yeah, it totally sucks compared to other nearby stuff.

- But there are almost always landowner issues that make coming down in nearby fields a bad idea.

- Plus you tend to have the retrieval vehicles parked at the primary.

- Anybody who can't hit the first third of the Woodstock primary blindfolded and badly hung over has no fuckin' business whatsoever launching - let alone going exploring along the ridge. Hell, he really doesn't have any fuckin' business whatsoever having a Hang Two card in his wallet.

Enjoy the process,
- Andy

Learn what the process is first.