Releases

[Zack C]

I don't see how they can sell something as 200 lb test if it always breaks at a point well below that (i.e., it's not a bad run issue). Unfortunately, the spool I was sent is not labeled by the manufacturer. The only marking of any kind on it is a sticker from the vendor ('200#x300yd Co').

I'm not worried about using 205 at Columbus since we're (now) using a 600 lb weak link on the tug end, but I'm worried about using it behind Dragonflys. I'm going to mull over this some more.

I had a feeling you'd say something about the size of my loops after seeing the one you sent me, by the way, but I wanted to send you exactly what I sent Bill.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

I don't know what's going on with your "200" pound stuff. Did the spool look factory wound? Sounds like they may be breaking up big spools 'cause Cortland has 100, 150, 300, 600, 800, 1200, and 2500 yards in their catalog. Might be worth trying to get ahold of a factory one hundred to see if it's the same.

Weak links and Dragonflies...

My initial strategy was to try to stay just below what they were using on the front end to keep from getting the rope.

Then I figured fuck that.

- One and a half Gs is:
- safest
- WELL within USHGA/FAA regs and I'm bloody well entitled to use it

- Their job is to stay a hundred pounds over my end.

- If I get killed 'cause a weak link blows it's gonna be their fault - not mine. (And I have standing orders with my family to sue the crap out of them and send them to prison for manslaughter.)

Furthermore...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3648
Oh no! more on weak links

Carlos Weill - 2008/11/30 19:24:09 UTC

The tug weak link broke off at 1000ft, in less than a second the glider was at 500ft.

Even if you're using a single loop of 130 on a two point bridle you can't depend upon those assholes to beat it - so why even bother trying?

So that's my recommendation.

And if you get some Rooney-grade moron driver who doesn't want you to endanger him or yourself with 205 you should now be well armed enough to demolish and humiliate him - preferably in front of a dozen or so other glider pilots.

He's gonna have no freakin' idea what normal tow tension is, what the breaking strengths of single and double loops of 130 and the triple strander he's got on his bridle are, how to calculate Gs for one and two point bridles, and what the purpose of a weak link is. And he's only gonna have a weak link on his bridle above the tow ring on the assumption that the bridle can't wrap.

Also note that ALL tandems are towed with stronger weak links than what's up front - except at Lookout where they don't use ANY weak links for those gliders - and they're doing zillions of tows and only killing people when the front end weak link blows.

And keep that three by five card handy - but make sure the front side has the full reg - including the part about the hundred pound margin you're SUPPOSED to have.

String length / loop size...

It never ceases to amaze how much line is eaten up by knots and how much one gets back after a loop is installed on a bridle and loaded to normal tow tension.

And don't worry about length affecting test results. Weak links have weak links - and they're just about always where one or the other of the strands exits the bridle.

P.S. Ya notice how this thread just evolved from being pure release to pure weak link in just seven posts?

- On 105 weak links start sneaking in as bent pin release protectors.

- On 107 we start talking Bridle Link in a two point system - which is still OK 'cause a Bridle Link in a two point system functions primarily as a component of the primary release system.

- On 108 primary string starts taking over.

- By 111 we're totally down the rabbit hole.

We gotta figure out how to start bumping this back the other way.

[Tad Eareckson]

John Heiney - 1992/11

More pilots are doing hang gliding demonstrations at air shows every year, and towing (both ground and aero) is the popular method of getting gliders airborne. Today's towing systems are safe and reliable, and are applicable in most air show situations. But there is another way to put a hang glider a few thousand feet above the ground at an air show, and it can make for a more spectacular and colorful show. I am speaking, of course, of a hot air balloon launch or "balloon drop".

I did my first balloon drops for a segment of "The Spectacular World of Guinness Records," in which I did 52 loops after releasing from a balloon at 9,000 feet AGL.

A balloon drop is great fun and quite safe if you pay attention to a few serious, inherent dangers.

Equipment

A small line (205 cord) extends from the release pin to the basetube (remember to stow it at the top of the downtube with tape). I pull the release with my teeth so I can keep both hands on the basetube.

Launch Procedure

Bundle the release line and tape it to the top of the downtube. Be sure it will not pull the pin as the lifting rope tightens (leave some slack).

When the balloonist gives you the okay, raise your head slightly, put the release line in your teeth, move the control bar to a good dive position (about your stomach) as you pull the front of your body down. You will feel weightless for a bit so hold yourself to the basetube. Hold the dive position until you feel moderate positive bar pressure, then ease out.

This is John Heiney - a guy whose name is SYNONYMOUS with aerobatics.

Official Guinness World Record Holder (1988-1998) for Consecutive Loops (52)

Four Time World Aerobatic Hang Gliding Champion

This is a guy who stopped doing Hang Gliding magazine centerfolds 'cause he was catching too much flak from people who thought his were encouraging too many Hang Threes to do stuff that would get them killed.

At nine grand in what's always - by definition - totally dead air and with a totally inert glider that pretty much stays were you put it and can be controlled pretty well with one hand, where release - within an astronomical range - is entirely at your discretion and time of choosing, where as long as you start with the nose low there's not a whole lot bad that can happen to you... it's so important for you to - at all times from close to commitment on - have both hands on the basetube that you put the lanyard in your teeth.

But from zero to two hundred feet coming off the runway being pulled by a winch, truck, or ultralight at flying speed in midday thermal conditions it doesn't matter where you put the lanyard, lever, or barrel 'cause it's inconceivable that you'd need both hands on the basetube through a situation which could require you to blow tow two seconds ago. And today's towing systems are safe and reliable.

So John, how come we're seeing these ENDLESS discussions for decades on the web from people - including aerobatics pilots like Dallas Willis - who are scared shitless of release systems which don't afford them anywhere near the luxurious safety margin upon which you insist at close to two miles up in sled conditions?
---
2022/03/28 12:30:00 UTC

3-11311
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4579/38309011086_f26fabbc50_o.png


http://www.kitestrings.org/post10723.html#p10723

[Tad Eareckson]

Dennis Pagen's "Performance Flying", 1993/04, features a 28 page chapter titled "Towing Aloft" which bears an uncanny resemblance to a certain book of that name which will be published in four years and nine months. Also in Performance Flying is a three page discussion of balloon drops obviously ripped off from John Heiney's article in the 1992/11 issue of Hang Gliding - undoubtedly with his blessing.

When you are dropping fast enough, the technique John Heiney suggests is to untape the release line, put it in your mouth so you can have both hands and the control bar, hold the bar into your stomach (dive position) and rotate down to release.

OK...

- It's ALWAYS safer, better to have BOTH hands on the basetube.

- There is NO reason NOT to have both hands on the basetube and the lanyard in your teeth for a balloon drop. No extra expense, complexity, engineering, weight, drag. Total no brainer.

BUT...

In aerotowing there is also absolutely no downside to having a basetube mounted actuator for two point configuration and a bite controlled actuator for one point is fairly cheap and easy. Even a string in your teeth with a twenty dollar Linknife at the other end would be a vast improvement over nothing.

AND...

If balloon droppers where as off the scale stupid as aerotowers they'd velcro bicycle brake levers to their downtubes. But there IS NO realistic scenario in which this configuration would result in a safety penalty. You pull the bar back with both hands, the glider's inert, you swat the lever, the glider falls, and whether you're using two, one, or zero hands the glider's eventually gonna pull out and start flying. If you miss the lever or it does its spin- around-the-tube trick you're still a balloon passenger with lots of time on your hands and nothing all that important going on.

And compared to the carnage we get when people on landing approaches transition or attempt to transition to the downtubes?

So if you did a million drops - half with the string in the teeth, half with the lever on the downtube - you'd see NO differences in the LZ (beyond the lever crowd getting there sooner 'cause of the extra drag).

So there are probably a half a million aerotows for every balloon drop - and the only ones worth taking are in nasty, turbulent, midday air. And we've all seen plenty of times what happens to people who need to both fly the glider AND release but can't.

So why are we talking about the importance of having both hands on the basetube while releasing from a freakin' hot air bag and pretending that our aerotowing systems are safe and reliable?

[Tad Eareckson]

John Heiney - 1992/11

Safety Rules

DO NOT HAVE A PREMATURE RELEASE! This is the single most important/dangerous aspect of balloon launching. If you inadvertently release yourself, or the balloon accidentally releases you, or your rope, release, or attachment to the balloon breaks, or you come loose 30 to 200 feet above the ground YOU WILL DIE! It is for this reason that I do not like to have a quick release on the balloon. If the balloon pilot insists on an emergency release, set up a system by which he must cut your rope with a knife, so he cannot do it accidentally.

You must impress upon the balloonist that the time between when your feet leave the ground and you reach 500 feet AGL is a critical danger period for you. After a gentle liftoff, you must get to 500 to 1,000 feet as quickly as possible. That way there is less time for something to go wrong during this high risk period. A balloon pilot may wish to stay low to utilize an air layer in the desired direction.

It is important to stow your release line in such a position that it is physically impossible to inadvertently pull it during ascent. I "S" turn the line into a small bundle and tape it to the top of the downtube with a little slack between the bundle line and the release. When I am at a safe altitude I reach up, remove the tape and let the line fall to the basetube.

ALWAYS HAVE A LANDING AREA CLEARED BEFORE YOU LIFT OFF. If something goes wrong you might need to land back where you started right away. Generally, at a balloon festival you will be lifting off in the balloon inflation area, in the middle of a large crowd of people. As you lift off, the natural tendency of the crowd is to flow in and fill your LZ! You must have aggressive crowd control people who will clear your LZ before you lift off and keep it clear until you land. This should be a job for event organizers, but it is your responsibility to make them understand your safety needs, which cannot be compromised.

Remember that there will be little or no wind at a balloon festival. It might be light and variable. It could switch tail as you're about to flare. Your zero wind landing technique should be excellent. If it is not, work on it before you fly in a show. You are there to show people what you know how to do, not what you do not know how to do.

DO NOT CHOOSE A WILD MAN AS YOUR BALLOON PILOT. Balloonists do not carry reserve parachutes, so they usually conduct their flight activities conservatively. But there are crazy people in all sports. Someone else might pick a balloon man for you, but you have the final decision as to whether this person understands your requirements and takes them seriously.

Equipment

THE RELEASE - I believe that the "three-ring" release, similar to that used in towing, is best. This device was invented for skydiving canopy cutaway. The balloon release must be much stronger than that required for towing. I like a 10 times safety factor. If you build your own use at least 2,000 pound nylon webbing with strong nylon thread and forged steel rings. Never use welded rings. Be sure you understand three-ring theory before you build one.

DO NOT HAVE A PREMATURE RELEASE! This is the single most important/dangerous aspect of balloon launching.

Whereas when you're towing you'll only die in that range under very rare circumstances - usually involving a dust devil or strong thermal.

Pagen/Bryden
---
TOWLINE MAINTENANCE

To add life to the rope and reduce breakage, regular maintenance is required.

If a rope begins to break with a degree of regularity, inspect the line and replace all splices. If the line continues to regularly break, it is time to replace it.
---
LINE BREAKS

As the towline wears from abrasion and UV exposure, its breaking strength diminishes. Typically pilots continue using a line until it begins to break on a regular basis at normal tow tensions. Given the general tendency by pilots to save money, it is probable that you will experience a line failure during a towing career.

So you don't really have to take the integrity of your towline too seriously. And anyway...

For aerotowing operations, a weak link breaking strength equal to 80 to 100% of the total flying weight - the weight of the pilot and glider - is a reasonable starting point.

...you're using a weak link that'll blow at the drop of a hat - so why bother worrying about towline maintenance at all?

It is for this reason that I do not like to have a quick release on the balloon. If the balloon pilot insists on an emergency release, set up a system by which he must cut your rope with a knife, so he cannot do it accidentally.

How 'bout when we're behind a Dragonfly when the driver has his finger on the trigger all the time?

Pro Tip: Always thank the tug pilot for intentionally releasing you, even if you feel you could have ridden it out. He should be given a vote of confidence that he made a good decision in the interest of your safety.

And we're all supposed to tell him what a super job he's doing so he'll be even more inclined to blow us off the next time - and not ask him to buy us new downtubes.

After a gentle liftoff, you must get to 500 to 1,000 feet as quickly as possible. That way there is less time for something to go wrong during this high risk period.

What an odd concept. Climb out quickly to minimize time in the danger zone.

Pagen

The phase of towing during the first 100 feet is critical for this and other reasons and should be done with as light of forces as possible.

In towing we maximize our safety by bringing our climb rates down to absolute minimums.

Remember that there will be little or no wind at a balloon festival. It might be light and variable. It could switch tail as you're about to flare. Your zero wind landing technique should be excellent. If it is not, work on it before you fly in a show. You are there to show people what you know how to do, not what you do not know how to do.

And, of course, never consider rolling in on the wheels in light switchy air. Hang gliders simply do not land on wheels.

DO NOT CHOOSE A WILD MAN AS YOUR BALLOON PILOT. Balloonists do not carry reserve parachutes, so they usually conduct their flight activities conservatively. But there are crazy people in all sports. Someone else might pick a balloon man for you, but you have the final decision as to whether this person understands your requirements and takes them seriously.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.

Must be nice to have a shot at selecting someone for the other end of the rope who isn't a total moron.

The balloon release must be much stronger than that required for towing.

Why? The balloon release will never be subjected to much more than one G and will never hafta be operable at anything more than exactly one G. If a towed glider loses tension at anything up to, including, and beyond its weak link - which for aerotowing can legally be as much as two Gs - it can die too.

Yeah, I'd rather have my balloon release be the stronger if I hafta make a choice - but let's take our tow releases seriously too and understand that it's more important for them to be operable under potentially higher loads. Nobody ever died 'cause he stayed stuck to a balloon.

Be sure you understand three-ring theory before you build one.

But if you're building a barrel release make sure you understand NOTHING about second class lever theory - just always use a bent pin 'cause that's what everybody else does.

[Warnarr]

Be sure you understand three-ring theory before you build one.

But if you're building a barrel release make sure you understand NOTHING about second class lever theory - just always use a bent pin 'cause that's what everybody else does.

10-4 brother.. copy that..
But as a nation of sheep that enjoy being herded what else should we expect?

Who worries about a small number of senseless deaths when there are many millions of people yet to be killed in the world in the name of freedom and justice? (waves flag made in China)

We just killed Emanual Goldstein again and we're still recovering from the big wedding...
Too much to digest.. bent pin manslaughter.. straight pin sanity.. who can keep it straight?

With so many engineers in the sport why is this being ignored?
I know that not all engineers are cowards..
http://ae911truth.org/
(Richard Gage was just in Kansas City with a recently shaved head.. such a button down radical..
Gage was/is not afraid to put his carreer and reputation on the line for something very big.)

Where are all the brave pilot engineers on this two dollar pin issue that may kill themselves or their fellow pilots?
I'm guessing the same place they are hiding from the biggest fraud ever committed against mankind..

Physics doesn't lie. Politicians do.
http://ae911truth.org/

[Zack C]

Did the spool look factory wound?

Hell if I know. Here's a pic if that tells you anything:

I could only find one store in the universe selling the stuff in anything less than 1200 yards. I can't even find the stuff listed on Cortland's website (although it is in their catalog). Maybe I should ask Lookout where they get theirs.

If I get killed 'cause a weak link blows it's gonna be their fault - not mine.

Somehow I don't think that'll be much consolation for me.

Also note that ALL tandems are towed with stronger weak links than what's up front...

Really? I thought a double loop of 130 was the standard for tandems. (Not that I would really know, since most of the tandems I've seen have been at Lookout...)

Ya notice how this thread just evolved from being pure release to pure weak link in just seven posts?

We were discussing my 200 lb stuff on the weak link thread until you brought up your test results here. It's all your fault!

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

Warren,

Where are all the brave pilot engineers on this two dollar pin issue that may kill themselves or their fellow pilots?

They're trying to snow me with a bunch of pseudo intellectual bullshit while pretending that the bent pin releases they're using themselves HAVE undergone rigorous performance testing...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6124
Bridles and Releases

Bill Bryden - 2007/01/05 16:52:14 UTC

If my designs are better (and they are - I've done my homework)...

How did your design fair in a Failure Mode and Effects Analysis (FMEA) and in Failure Mode and Effects Testing (FMET)? What were the results of performance tests like those in the Appendix III of Towing Aloft?

What were the sample sizes of repeated tests and number of product samples (ie were they statistically significant)?

playing amateur psychiatrists..

Just a little aside observation: I have supervised many projects and engineers over the years. Oddly, there often is a correlation between the robustness of a design and the engineer's humbleness regarding it. Others also have a sense of that relationship and it affects our thinking, makes us wary.

...telling me to fuck off...

Have fun.
Bill

...telling me that if I'm not a fellow shithead flight park operator I can't possibly know what I'm talking about and/or be worth listening to...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7067
AT SOPs - proposed revisions

Dr. Tracy Tillman - 2009/05/10 02:08:52 UTC
USHPA Director, Region 7
FAA Detroit FSDO FAAST Aviation Safety Counselor

It would also be good for the FAA and USHPA to know what kind of ultalight or sport plane tug and airplane you use for towing hang gliders and sailplanes with at your operation (if any), along with a general description of your towing operation or who you provide towing and instructional services for (if any).

...and locking me out of their friendly little discussion groups 'cause I don't play nicely with the other USHGA party line douchebags and know I'll cut them to shreds if I'm allowed to engage...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7152
AT SOPs - proposed revisions

Peter Birren - 2009/02/18 02:53:30 UTC

For the most part, his fuel line's been cut.

And yes, all three of these "engineers" ARE cowards.

Zack,

Here's a pic if that tells you anything...

Yeah, if I had to bet twenty bucks I'd say that was cut from a big spool by the vendor.

I could only find one store in the universe selling the stuff in anything less than 1200 yards.

Bummer.

Maybe I should ask Lookout where they get theirs.

1. Maybe you should write/call Cortland with your/our concerns. We kinda got screwed on that one. Maybe they'd be more than happy to put fifty feet of real two hundred in an envelope.

2. Use 205 leechline anyway.

Somehow I don't think that'll be much consolation for me.

Die knowing that you'll make me at least a little happy. 'Cause before your body's cold I'm gonna contact Matthew Rundio in Chicago and tell him these USHGA bastards have just killed another one for the same reason and show him how to destroy them in court properly this time. (Got any relatives you like? Favorite charities? Save The Albatrosses Foundation?)

I thought a double loop of 130 was the standard for tandems.

In the earlier years all the Dragonflies and tandems were using double loops on the bridles at both ends. That was too light but other than that - and the fact that they were (are) all too stupid to put weak links on both ends of the bridle - not a bad solution. The glider bridle had a wider apex angle and the weak link tended to get worn and chewed up so the tug was pretty likely to fly away with the rope while maintaining a pretty close spread.

Then the idiots started finding out that the tow mast breakaways - which were designed to fail about the same time as a double loop - were failing and fatiguing and failing with a double loop (Who coulda seen THAT coming?), so they went to a triple strand up front and left the double loop on the glider.

...since most of the tandems I've seen have been at Lookout...

Matt doesn't use weak links on his tandems. They told me they don't and...




...even at that watered down resolution you can SEE that they don't. But even though the sonuvabitch was/is perfectly content to violate the crap out of the existing USHGA/FAA safety regulations there was no way he was gonna support me for getting a sane weak link minimum on the books.

It's all your fault!

I know. That's why I'd make a crappy flight park operator. In that environment it's always all the student's or patron's fault.

[Zack C]

Matt doesn't use weak links on his tandems.

I know, that's why I made that comment. It makes for some awkward moments when their AT students ask them why if weak links are so important the tandems aren't using them. ("Don't do what we're doing.")

...so they went to a triple strand up front and left the double loop on the glider.

OK, let me get this straight...even with a 200 lb loop like I wanted I'd be over the weak link on the Dragonfly end? Hell, I might as well use 205 then.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

I know, that's why I made that comment.

Yeah, my reading comprehension level seems to be dropping daily and irreversibly. Ditto on memory.

It makes for some awkward moments when their AT students ask them why if weak links are so important the tandems aren't using them.

I SO hope that actually happens - frequently. Does that actually happen - frequently?

Hell, I might as well use 205 then.

You learn quickly, Grasshopper. Continue at this pace and in another five to six weeks you too will be blacklisted at every flight operation between the Rio Grande and Point Barrow. (How's your Spanish?)

http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28697
Weak links why do we use them. in paragliding.

Morey Brown - 2009/12/05 02:33:33 UTC

Yes, the forces increase in a lockout situation. Sufficiently to break a proper weak link.

How do we know where to set the weak link's breaking limit? From my perspective, it always seems to be a magic formula known only to towmasters, which is why I will only tow with people who have done a thousand of them.

That's a snippet from my war with the paragliding cult a couple of winters ago. (Went a lot like Houston 'cept with your guys I had totally shifted from seeing how long I could stay on to seeing how fast I could get kicked off. (Boy that was fun.))

Wouldn't it be cool to be in a sport that wasn't controlled by a bunch of whacked out witch doctors? Eight hundred dollar built in Tost releases on the tug and glider, manufacturer specified Tost weak link on the glider, something heavier on the tug, take off and land on the wheels, no spots, no broken downtubes or arms, no blacklisting for trying to follow rules and get protected by them...

Where was I? Oh yeah... Got 205? Want a couple of Number Nines to go with it?