landing

[Tad Eareckson]

Not entirely following that one.

If penetration is a problem you wanna be prone. (And yes, I've already thought of all the joke potential that sentence offers.)

There are two things you can do better upright than you can prone:
- steepen your glide path
- stall

So if you're coming down through a severe gradient you could have an advantage over a wheel lander by being upright and on the downtubes the moment you reach the surface and thus ready to make your airspeed go from a bit over stall to zero in a heartbeat.

More so if the surface isn't real wheel friendly and/or if you're dealing with a rotor (tailwind).

But while in such a situation it may well be inadvisable to transition at the last possible moment you'll be disadvantaged by being upright throughout the descent and won't be able to arrive at the surface with as much airspeed.

[Steve Davy]

What I need to do is stick the wheels back on my Falcon, come in real fast and wheel land a few times (ideally when the gradient is severe). Then, as you say, rotate up and foot land when I get more comfortable with making transitions AFTER I've blasted though the gradient.

[Tad Eareckson]

If you're flying a Falcon you're not, by definition, terribly concerned about glide performance - so there's not much of a reason not to be using substantial wheels. May not normally be much of an advantage at a place like Funston but if you come down in a rotor or get turned downwind...

If you're gonna foot land in that environment I don't think you can beat Steve Pearson's mindset - which, whether he's stated it in so many words or not, is to set up for a belly landing and transition a couple of seconds before landing if and only if everything's trim and under control.

Kinda like the strategy for not launching unhooked: Always assume you're about to.

[Steve Davy]

I think we are on the same page here.

[Tad Eareckson]

Tad Eareckson - 2011/03/05 00:01:23 UTC

Sailplanes fly XC all the time and those guys all suck at landing on their feet.

Zack C - 2011/03/06 01:58:38 UTC

It's my understanding that if a sailplane pilot lands out he 'FUCKED UP'.

Tad Eareckson - 2011/03/07 18:58:32 UTC

Nope. We make them so we can roll them up and put them on the top of the car, they make them so they can take the wings off and put everything on a trailer behind the car. You've only fucked up if you put your Dacron or fiberglass down in seven foot high corn and/or can't walk away.

I think Zack was a lot righter about that than I was. However...

1. The percentage of hang glider landings that occur in standup advisable and mandatory environments...

Zack C - 2012/03/29 04:49:14 UTC

Like Tad said...it's tough to find a video of someone landing in a place that isn't wheel landable.

...is microscopic.

2. People who frequently DO land in wheel unfriendly environments...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26847
Landing Out

NMERider - 2012/08/10 17:09:10 UTC

Be glad you don't fly XC where I do. It really sucks here in the LA Basin and I'm tired of all the hazards.

...tend to get injured and...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27415
Friday the 19th with Hawks & Friends!

NMERider - 2012/10/24 21:47:05 UTC

I have to say that landing on the wheels is so much fun it's not funny.

...aren't having that much fun - even when they manage to pull it off for good stretches.

3. Airports are the norm for...

http://www.forbesflatlands.com/drivers.html

19th FAI World Hang Gliding Class 1 Championship, Forbes, Australia, 2013

There will probably be some long tasks when you arrive back at Forbes well after 10 pm. But some tasks will have the goal back at Forbes, and could be finished by about 6 pm.

... XC competition goals and...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26517
Upcoming shoulder surgery

Davis Straub - 012/02/02 02:00:20 UTC

It was basically nothing. I was landing at a very small private abandoned air strip cut out from the cactus. I had the glider coming in fast in ground effect. Let out the bar to trim, then was running to unload the glider instead of flaring and I just tripped, fell out straight with my arms straight out and nothing happened at all but the sharp pain in my shoulder. The glider landed fine on its base bar.

...frequently used for bailouts.

4. The smart money is moving away from stupid and unnecessary stunt landings...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26854
Skids versus wheels

Andrew Stakhov - 2012/08/11 13:52:35 UTC
Toronto

So I just came back from flying in Austria (awesome place btw). Stark difference I noticed is a large chunk of pilots choose to fly with skids instead of wheels. Conversations I had with pilots they say they actually work better in certain situations as they don't get plugged up like smaller wheels. Even larger heavier Atosses were all flying with skids. I was curious why they consistently chose to land on skids on those expensive machines and they were saying that it's just not worth the risk of a mistimed flare or wing hitting the ground... And those are all carbon frames etc.

...'cause it's tired of breaking stuff.

The distinction between hang gliders and sailplanes is being blurred - as it should be - despite the influence of all the assholes whose livelihood is dependent upon people signing up for foot landing clinics.

[miguel]

*A prudent pilot will develop good foot landing skills*

[Tad Eareckson]

I'm assuming you pulled that from my 2013/01/27 00:52:46 UTC "Broken arm Saturday for discussion" thread post.

http://www.kitestrings.org/post3576.html#p3576

Just to be clear - it's a quote I pulled from your 2012/12/20 23:24:33 UTC post in this thread.

http://www.kitestrings.org/post3450.html#p3450

I am no way it hell endorsing it. I'm saying that if anyone thinks a prudent pilot develops good foot landing skills but goes up on weak links that break in the course any tow that hasn't gone totally tits up - and precious few of even those - he's at least half a dozen battens short of a full set.

My position remains:

A prudent pilot doesn't develop a skill that's a thousand times more likely to get him seriously injured in practice than to be of any use in a responsible flying career.

[miguel]

I am quite aware that I originated this line. It stands well on its own and needs no embellishing or spin.

*A prudent pilot will develop good foot landing skills*

This is the landing thread, not the weak link thread.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17092
Crash at Questair

Shannon Moon - 2010/05/28 12:31:35 UTC

This is my write-up of my hang gliding accident on 2010/05/09 at Quest Air in Groveland, Florida during an attempted foot landing which resulted in shattered arms, bilateral humerus fractures, and radial nerve trauma. I could not write this up before now as I am just getting enough motor control in my right hand to type very slowly.

[Tad Eareckson]

P.S. Speaking of weak links and landings... From my previous post at:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post3587.html#p3587

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4931
Zapata

Pete Lehmann - 2011/06/24
Zapata

And then there's my weak link break. I had been looking forward to attempting an unusual eighty mile flight to the south east along the Mexican border towards McAllen. But the instant I came off the cart my weak link broke. That shouldn't have been a problem as I had good speed to transition to a landing. However, I had zipped up my harness a bit too far and couldn't unzip it in the seconds available to me.

Still in my harness, I opted to belly land on the runway. Unfortunately the repaved runway has an extraordinarily coarse texture, that of a heavy grit sand paper, which resulted in my harness and knee being shredded. The harness can be fixed with Shoe Goo, but the knee required three stitches to pull together the resulting mess.

Lotsa times the distinctions between some of these threads gets REAL blurry.

Pavement and foot launch and land hang gliders is a BAD combination but if all you've got to get airborne is a paved runway that's an acceptable risk.

But these FUCKING MORONIC DOUCHEBAGS - after the VOLUMES that have been written about the insanity of anybody hooking up with Davis Links and having observed them...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year.

...going of like popcorn throughout the meet - continue hooking up with Davis Links that THEY KNOW *WILL* *BLOW* at random, including/especially...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlIGsgNFRWM


...just coming off the cart.

But that's OK 'cause...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC

Zach, you can nit pick all you like, but I'll put a 100,000+ flight record over your complaints any day of the week.

Let me see if I can clear up a few things for ya.
A lot of this I sent to Steve btw...

The "purpose" of a weaklink is not in question. Your semantics are.
The "purpose" of a weaklink is to increase the safety of the towing operation. PERIOD.

There are many ways in which it accomplishes this.
You're nit picking over what you call the "true purpose"... but all you're griping about is a definition... and an erroneous one at that.

Again, The weak link increases the safety of the tow.

...the weak link increases the safety of the tow...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

I use what we use at the flight parks.

...it's what we use at the flight parks...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

It's time tested and proven...

...it's time tested and proven and...

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

...and works a hell of a lot better than all the other bullshit I've seen out there.

...it works a hell of a lot better than all the other bullshit Rooney's seen out there.

Granted, Pete got his knee chewed up in a belly landing but he left his harness unzipped (not quite enough) to do a foot landing.

- If he had launched fully zipped up with a 1.5 G weak link he and his harness wouldn't have been.

- If he had launched fully zipped up with a Davis Link only his harness would've have been chewed up.

- Anybody who's confident that he can come off a cart and land cleanly on his feet after a Davis Link blow is a total asshole in serious need of a rating revocation - especially when we're talking pavement.

P.P.S. Somebody quote me something helpful from that arrogant Aussie Methodist sonuvabitch in any of the weak link wars subsequent to his knee sanding and consequential lost flying days.